Nov
25
Michelle Wie shows she can fold in Japan too
The news came in the middle of the night in most of America, news that’s fast becoming as predictable as snow in Michigan in January for all but the Wie Warriors.
Marketing monster Michelle Wie folded again when faced with a little pressure, bogeyed the last two holes in her second round to miss the cut at the Casio World Open. At some point, you have to start feeling sorry for this 16-year-old who obviously knows nothing about winning or performing in the clutch.
The only funny thing is how the Wie Warriors get so pumped up, convinced they are finally going to be proven right, only to see the wheels fall off the bus yet again.
Michelle Wie’s now proven she cannot win, or even do anything artificially significant, in America, Canada and Japan. Maybe she’ll try her hand at Liechtenstein next. It’s obvious she needs a smaller stage.
Then again, she couldn’t win big tournaments in the Juniors either.
Remember, this was the Casino World Open, a Japanese Tour event with a field less impressive than some major college tournaments. This is the tournament that Tiger Woods thought she might be able to contend in. Making the cut seemed to be a given with Tiger declaring, “there’s no reason why she can’t make the cut.”
Well, no reason except the fact Wie would likely blow a three-foot putt playing for a local country club’s beer round trophy.
Now we know why Tiger Woods is no Phil Mickelson when it comes to sports betting. Of course, working for Nike, Tiger has to play nice to Michelle.
The Wie camp cannot acknowledge the farce this has become of course. If only it wasn’t all about dollar signs and Wie could go back and try to learn how to handle anything stressful in low-level amateur tournaments.
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56 comments
Comment from: Joseph [Visitor]
You're saying she'll have to settle for BWPNTWAM, then?
2005-11-25 @ 06:19
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I checked out the results of the tournament and when I found out she bogied the last two holes, I thought to myself this is definetely the pressure, no doubt about that.
However then I checked out the rest of her round. Obviously as a journalist maybe you should do some research but that is probably beyond you.
If you look at her round, she already had 4 bogies in her round. She obviously wasn't playing very well at all. Maybe being at school while the other guys were playing week in and week out didn't help much.
Don't get me wrong, pressure had it's part to play. Had Tiger Woods been in that situation, I have no doubt he would have got through, even if he was playing as poorly as Michelle was. However Michelle is no Tiger Woods, just as nobody else is either. (Of course Tiger did miss 2 cuts this year though.)
You also neglected to note, that she had a 20 minute wait on the final hole. Is this unreasonable? You may say professionals should be able to get through this. I would agree if it was seasoned professionals like Phil Mickelson or Ernie Els, but I think it was alot to ask of a kid, knowing all she needed was par, and then having her wait 20 minutes.
And remember she did only miss by one shot, it is a shame, because making the cut here would have really boosted her confidence for the Sony Open.
However then I checked out the rest of her round. Obviously as a journalist maybe you should do some research but that is probably beyond you.
If you look at her round, she already had 4 bogies in her round. She obviously wasn't playing very well at all. Maybe being at school while the other guys were playing week in and week out didn't help much.
Don't get me wrong, pressure had it's part to play. Had Tiger Woods been in that situation, I have no doubt he would have got through, even if he was playing as poorly as Michelle was. However Michelle is no Tiger Woods, just as nobody else is either. (Of course Tiger did miss 2 cuts this year though.)
You also neglected to note, that she had a 20 minute wait on the final hole. Is this unreasonable? You may say professionals should be able to get through this. I would agree if it was seasoned professionals like Phil Mickelson or Ernie Els, but I think it was alot to ask of a kid, knowing all she needed was par, and then having her wait 20 minutes.
And remember she did only miss by one shot, it is a shame, because making the cut here would have really boosted her confidence for the Sony Open.
2005-11-25 @ 06:31
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
The worst thing about all this is Shanks will probably be on posting soon. I wouldn't be surprised if he has spent the last few weeks praying constantly for this situation.
Two bogey's in the last two holes to miss by one shot, he couldn't have planned it better.
To be honest, I really think this could put a devastating blow in Michelle's confidence. At this stage, I think the best chance she has of making the cut at the Sony is if she comes from behind to scrape the cut.
Although Baldwin is in joyous mode at the moment, I HOPE the rest ot the anti-Wie brigade will have a bit more sympathy for her. It isn't easy to hold onto shots when you are aware that your game is not in good shape and you on the verge of making history. There is alot more pressure that comes with being the first woman in history to make a cut. Annika wasn't able for it, and I don't know of anyone other than Michelle, even willing to give it a go.
Back to Baldwin, it is hard to believe you stayed up into the middle of the night to check on Michelle and post your story. That is obsessive, I'm a fan and I didn't stay up!
Two bogey's in the last two holes to miss by one shot, he couldn't have planned it better.
To be honest, I really think this could put a devastating blow in Michelle's confidence. At this stage, I think the best chance she has of making the cut at the Sony is if she comes from behind to scrape the cut.
Although Baldwin is in joyous mode at the moment, I HOPE the rest ot the anti-Wie brigade will have a bit more sympathy for her. It isn't easy to hold onto shots when you are aware that your game is not in good shape and you on the verge of making history. There is alot more pressure that comes with being the first woman in history to make a cut. Annika wasn't able for it, and I don't know of anyone other than Michelle, even willing to give it a go.
Back to Baldwin, it is hard to believe you stayed up into the middle of the night to check on Michelle and post your story. That is obsessive, I'm a fan and I didn't stay up!
2005-11-25 @ 06:50
Comment from: Johnny [Visitor]
Hey Baldie,
Wie made a couple of birdies at the end of her first round. She made a couple of bogeys at the end of her second round.
That is just the way the cookie crumbles.
She missed a couple of shots at a vital time. NEWS FLASH: She is the first golfer to ever do this. Nobody has done that before.
Wie made a couple of birdies at the end of her first round. She made a couple of bogeys at the end of her second round.
That is just the way the cookie crumbles.
She missed a couple of shots at a vital time. NEWS FLASH: She is the first golfer to ever do this. Nobody has done that before.
2005-11-25 @ 06:55
Comment from: Mark Nessmith [Visitor]
Norman wrote:
"The worst thing about all this is Shanks will probably be on posting soon."
===============
We shall see, Norman, since Mr. Shanks now has his own blog, Golf With Shanks! What's the world coming to!?
So, Shanks? Your thoughts on Ms. Wie's Japanese debut?
"The worst thing about all this is Shanks will probably be on posting soon."
===============
We shall see, Norman, since Mr. Shanks now has his own blog, Golf With Shanks! What's the world coming to!?
So, Shanks? Your thoughts on Ms. Wie's Japanese debut?
2005-11-25 @ 07:13
Comment from: Sharp [Visitor]
Why does everybody overlook the fact the Michelle Wie is the youngest winner (male or female) of a USGA adult event. Before you start "chirping" maybe do some research, I hear Google is a powerful tool!
2005-11-25 @ 08:40
Comment from: Fred [Visitor]
Yes, once again Chris shows how completely stupid he is. Once again, he is completely oblivious to the fact that this is a 16 year old girl, yet harps on her as if she were a 25 year old veteran golf pro. You really need to see a professional regarding your bizarre obsession.
2005-11-25 @ 08:53
Comment from: Jeff Gibson [Visitor]
I am not a fan of what is being done with Michele. I believe it is bad for Michele and terrible for women's golf. She cannot play with the men. That being said, I do believe she is a wonderful talent and is going to be a major star. She does have some problems now. That is pretty typical of young stars. We do not all have the same gifts. Hers is athleticism. Morgan Pressel's is a great competitive mind. That is just the way it is. Remember what they said about Tom Watson when he first turned professional. They called him a choker for five years. They don't any more. What about Duval? The measure of an athlete is how they react when things are not going well. If she keeps playing, she will win many large female events. She will never win a male event. She might make a cut, maybe. That would put her in the top of her niche.
2005-11-25 @ 09:05
Ok, who forgot to show Jeff the memo that the comments here are only allowed to be anti-Baldwinisms (Or anti-Shanksisms, as well, it appears).
Very good post, Jeff, and I think you're right on the money.
You know, in the NFL it takes a very special kind of rookie to get much playing time. Normally teams don't want to see a young gifted QB get brutalized and mentally scrambled out there and be worthless afterward.
Such is what I think Wie may go through. Maybe she's tough enough, but if not, she may go Capriati on us.
She's pretty locked in now, but if I'm her management team or father, I keep an eye on how she deals with all the press and pressure, and if it starts to get to her, just pull her out of it and say we'll try again next year.
I'm not suggesting she do that now, of course, just depending on how things go.
--WKW
Very good post, Jeff, and I think you're right on the money.
You know, in the NFL it takes a very special kind of rookie to get much playing time. Normally teams don't want to see a young gifted QB get brutalized and mentally scrambled out there and be worthless afterward.
Such is what I think Wie may go through. Maybe she's tough enough, but if not, she may go Capriati on us.
She's pretty locked in now, but if I'm her management team or father, I keep an eye on how she deals with all the press and pressure, and if it starts to get to her, just pull her out of it and say we'll try again next year.
I'm not suggesting she do that now, of course, just depending on how things go.
--WKW
2005-11-25 @ 09:19
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Jeff,
Agreed. I happen to believe the participation of Annika and Michelle are bad for women's golf. That view seems to be in the minority. Check some other blogs on that one.
I think one example of what could potentially happen is Ty Tryon. Who knows what the lasting mental/emotional effects will be. He is really struggling to find his game right now. So WKW is right. If things go south for her next year, they ought to focus her efforts in a different direction.
Agreed. I happen to believe the participation of Annika and Michelle are bad for women's golf. That view seems to be in the minority. Check some other blogs on that one.
I think one example of what could potentially happen is Ty Tryon. Who knows what the lasting mental/emotional effects will be. He is really struggling to find his game right now. So WKW is right. If things go south for her next year, they ought to focus her efforts in a different direction.
2005-11-25 @ 09:40
Comment from: Rodney [Visitor]
Anyone who thinks she FOLDED has a very strange definition of folding.
- A few weeks ago, Monty led the Volvo Masters by about 6-7 strokes half way through the 2nd round. In the space of a few holes, he was gone back to level with Sergio Garcia. That is folding. I'd like to add he was under extreme pressure at the time trying to win the order of merit, much likes Michelle's pressure of trying to be the first woman to make it on the mens tour.
- Michelle had one stroke to spare. A couple of bogies at the end of a round is not folding. If she has 5-6 strokes to spare and then drops them in the last few holes, then you can say she folded. All she had was a blip which happened to Tiger too this year, missing the cut by one or two in a couple of events.
- Michelle has once again proved that she is able to compete and cut it with the men. How many more did she beat this time, about 40 or so.
- A few weeks ago, Monty led the Volvo Masters by about 6-7 strokes half way through the 2nd round. In the space of a few holes, he was gone back to level with Sergio Garcia. That is folding. I'd like to add he was under extreme pressure at the time trying to win the order of merit, much likes Michelle's pressure of trying to be the first woman to make it on the mens tour.
- Michelle had one stroke to spare. A couple of bogies at the end of a round is not folding. If she has 5-6 strokes to spare and then drops them in the last few holes, then you can say she folded. All she had was a blip which happened to Tiger too this year, missing the cut by one or two in a couple of events.
- Michelle has once again proved that she is able to compete and cut it with the men. How many more did she beat this time, about 40 or so.
2005-11-25 @ 10:38
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
So predictable Baldy.
Qualify or not she is still the best 16 year old talent that has ever played the game.
Wasn't Tiger 20 before he made a cut on the PGA after 7 or 8 tries, missing most cuts by several shots.
Then there's the 2 milion dollars she is said to have received. I am sure that will soften the blow a little.
She will get over this pretty quickly.
The biggest problem facing Michelle is that she isn't competing on a weekly basis.
Trying to compete professionally once a month is very difficult.
Alan M
Qualify or not she is still the best 16 year old talent that has ever played the game.
Wasn't Tiger 20 before he made a cut on the PGA after 7 or 8 tries, missing most cuts by several shots.
Then there's the 2 milion dollars she is said to have received. I am sure that will soften the blow a little.
She will get over this pretty quickly.
The biggest problem facing Michelle is that she isn't competing on a weekly basis.
Trying to compete professionally once a month is very difficult.
Alan M
2005-11-25 @ 11:58
Comment from: Johnny [Visitor]
Yes Alan, and she won't be competing until the Sony Open in January which is 2 months away, so it is no wonder it is so difficult to get a good rhythm going.
She will probably peak next year again at the same time as this year ie. when she is playing most events, like around the lpga championship, where she beat everyone by two shots this year, except for the worlds greatest female player of all time, Ms. Annika Sorrenstam.
She will probably peak next year again at the same time as this year ie. when she is playing most events, like around the lpga championship, where she beat everyone by two shots this year, except for the worlds greatest female player of all time, Ms. Annika Sorrenstam.
2005-11-25 @ 15:03
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Just wondering, if Chris Baldwin could give us a copy of the story he wrote when Sophie Gustafson missed the cut in this exact same Japanese event back in 2003. Sophie missed the cut by 7 shots, so I'm sure Chris must have wrote a very attacking story. Let's have it.
2005-11-25 @ 16:00
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Obviously Chris will keep this up until Michelle wins, and it is equally obvious that he appreciates us Wie Warriors for posting on his column. But we should appreciate Chris as well--his excessive criticism of Michelle Wie helps keep us focussed on maintaining our support for Wie. The funny thing is that this close miss will only increase the interest in Michelle Wie's next attempt in Hawaii on the PGA Tour at the Sony Open. I hope Michelle does not become too frustrated, she did well and her Wie Warriors look forward to her next effort.
2005-11-25 @ 16:50
Comment from: Mark [Visitor]
Hmmmm.....a 16 year old girl misses the cut in a professional mens tournanment by one stroke and this somehow indicates to you that she is a farce?
Michelle may never dominate womens golf like Sorenstam but I would bet my house she makes a professional mens cut within the next two years.
Michelle may never dominate womens golf like Sorenstam but I would bet my house she makes a professional mens cut within the next two years.
2005-11-25 @ 19:48
Comment from: bob [Visitor]
let's remember she is a 16 year old gal.....tiger did nothing when he was 16 agains the pro's...m.w. is a marvel.. i wish however she had played more against girls her own age when she was younger to learn how to win. there is no substitue for that. she will be the best that ever lived and by far when she is done though. she is already so far ahead of EVERYONE else. watch what she does when she gets comfortable with the pro envirnmonet. remember how terrible tom watson was when he first got going??? SHE'S 16 for crying out loud!!!!!!!
2005-11-25 @ 20:13
Hmmm...Chris Baldwin, Golf Critic!!
Beats up on a 16 year old teenager and enjoys it. I know your type...you are the one that could not get a date for the Senior Prom...you are the one that was the water boy on the football team...you are the one with the 34 handicap...you are the one that took journalism (with the girls) while the rest took Latin and Physics...yes, I know your type and you are pathetic!
Beats up on a 16 year old teenager and enjoys it. I know your type...you are the one that could not get a date for the Senior Prom...you are the one that was the water boy on the football team...you are the one with the 34 handicap...you are the one that took journalism (with the girls) while the rest took Latin and Physics...yes, I know your type and you are pathetic!
2005-11-25 @ 20:45
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
I think the Wie defenders ("Wie Warriors" is too pejorative) need to re-direct some of their anger... towards BJ Wie and the money-grubbing posse that is pushing Michele more into publicity stunts than developing her considerable talents. In fact, now that she has her guaranteed contracts from Nike/Sony, she should be focusing her efforts on learning to WIN, rather than learning to cash checks. Apparently, that lesson is lost on her parents and agents, who are too busy pushing her into Men's tournaments for the appearance fees rather than worrying about her long-term success and financial viability.
2005-11-26 @ 00:13
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
michelle wie is a wonderful talent. That being said she has no business competing against men. She has proven she can almost make the cut against guys who would be laying tile in the states, big deal. Focus on the task at hand the LPGA tour, maybe you can win there unlike the juniors.
2005-11-26 @ 01:31
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
Chris is not saying MW can't play the game. He's saying she's not a $10mil golfer. She'll probably make a cut in a men's event soon, but the acid test for me is will she win on the LPGA. I believe she needs a major on the ladies tour by 18 or she'll be swept under the carpet.
2005-11-26 @ 03:16
Comment from: Johnny [Visitor]
Matt said:
michelle wie is a wonderful talent. That being said she has no business competing against men. She has proven she can almost make the cut against guys who would be laying tile in the states, big deal. Focus on the task at hand the LPGA tour, maybe you can win there unlike the juniors.
**************************
Hold on a minute. She also proved that she could nearly make the cut on a pga tour event, which included Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Adam Scott and many other top pros.
Don't just isolate one case, ie the Japan one. Paula Creamer won in Japan. Should we say all she can beat is a pile of part-time dress makers and ignore her US wins????
This is RUBBISH about her not focusing on the lpga.
SHE CAN ONLY COMPETE IN 8 EVENTS PER SEASON. She has done this, she has competed in all the lpga events she can. So she is not distracted from the lpga. What is wrong with her competing in other events when it is not possible for her to be competing on the lpga?
And she has business competing against the men, because thus far she has played magnificantly. If she starts making 85 scores, you can say she has no business.
michelle wie is a wonderful talent. That being said she has no business competing against men. She has proven she can almost make the cut against guys who would be laying tile in the states, big deal. Focus on the task at hand the LPGA tour, maybe you can win there unlike the juniors.
**************************
Hold on a minute. She also proved that she could nearly make the cut on a pga tour event, which included Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Adam Scott and many other top pros.
Don't just isolate one case, ie the Japan one. Paula Creamer won in Japan. Should we say all she can beat is a pile of part-time dress makers and ignore her US wins????
This is RUBBISH about her not focusing on the lpga.
SHE CAN ONLY COMPETE IN 8 EVENTS PER SEASON. She has done this, she has competed in all the lpga events she can. So she is not distracted from the lpga. What is wrong with her competing in other events when it is not possible for her to be competing on the lpga?
And she has business competing against the men, because thus far she has played magnificantly. If she starts making 85 scores, you can say she has no business.
2005-11-26 @ 08:21
Comment from: Johnny [Visitor]
Bob said:
i wish however she had played more against girls her own age when she was younger to learn how to win. there is no substitue for that.
**********************************
Bob, she can learn to win at the top level. If she learned how to win against girls her own age, it would do nothing for her learning to win at a higher level.
There are bucket loads of proven winners coming out of the amatuer ranks every year, who do absolutely nothing at the highest level.
Winning in junior events does not teach you how to win on the bigger stage.
i wish however she had played more against girls her own age when she was younger to learn how to win. there is no substitue for that.
**********************************
Bob, she can learn to win at the top level. If she learned how to win against girls her own age, it would do nothing for her learning to win at a higher level.
There are bucket loads of proven winners coming out of the amatuer ranks every year, who do absolutely nothing at the highest level.
Winning in junior events does not teach you how to win on the bigger stage.
2005-11-26 @ 08:24
Comment from: Paul [Visitor]
I agree with Johnny that Michelle is playing as many LPGA events as she can. Beyond that, she is helping her overall game by playing as many events as she can (women's and "men's"). BJ said before the Casio event that he thought playing the longer holes would help her later with the par 5s on the LPGA events. Annika credits her performance in the LPGA over the last couple of years to her experience preparing for and playing in the one men's event she played. Michelle is trying to play against the best players she can. What is wrong with that?
There was an interesting analysis by Eric Adelson on ESPN.com of Michelle's loss in the Casio ( http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2236257 ). Her problem, as usual, was primarily putting, partly due to the fact that the greens in Hawaii are very different than everywhere else. I'm not sure what she can do about that for the next couple of years.
There was an interesting analysis by Eric Adelson on ESPN.com of Michelle's loss in the Casio ( http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2236257 ). Her problem, as usual, was primarily putting, partly due to the fact that the greens in Hawaii are very different than everywhere else. I'm not sure what she can do about that for the next couple of years.
2005-11-26 @ 09:20
Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
Yes, she is only 16. But if she is paid more than Annika, then she has to win more than Annika. Period.
2005-11-26 @ 09:59
Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
I thought she was stupid to claim that her goal was to win the Casio. You don't talk about winning if you have never made a cut. This is just like setting your goal to win a single season slam before even winning A major.
2005-11-26 @ 10:06
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
BJ is right. The longer holes in the men's events will allow her to hone her skills for the par 5's on the LPGA. One thing though, she's still got to make the putts. Missing putts on faster greens at crunch time doesn't give her valuable experience or help her confidence. It just puts more $$$ in the bank for her (and BJ).
2005-11-26 @ 13:37
Comment from: RRR [Visitor]
So Mr. Baldwin just what were you doing at thirteen, fourteen, fifteen or sixteen years of age. Were you finishing rounds of golf in tournaments ahead of many of the worlds most noted golf professionals of either sex?
In the few events Miss Wie participates in I never look at who finishes in front of her to gauge her success, I look at the professional male/female golfers behind her in the field. She consistently finishes in front of some future Golf Hall of Fame names
So Mr. Baldwhine these are the golfers you should focus on and take to task for their poor performances. Why you might ask? Because they just got their collective professional butts whipped by a sixteen year old child.
Now let's take your own sucesses at sixteen and measure them against Miss Wie. Did you miss the cut by one stroke in a mens international professional golf match? I don't believe you or Mr. Woods did at sixteen.
Rest assured Miss Wie will find a way to qualify and win many tounaments in the future as she and her game matures.
In the few events Miss Wie participates in I never look at who finishes in front of her to gauge her success, I look at the professional male/female golfers behind her in the field. She consistently finishes in front of some future Golf Hall of Fame names
So Mr. Baldwhine these are the golfers you should focus on and take to task for their poor performances. Why you might ask? Because they just got their collective professional butts whipped by a sixteen year old child.
Now let's take your own sucesses at sixteen and measure them against Miss Wie. Did you miss the cut by one stroke in a mens international professional golf match? I don't believe you or Mr. Woods did at sixteen.
Rest assured Miss Wie will find a way to qualify and win many tounaments in the future as she and her game matures.
2005-11-26 @ 17:10
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Jack said:
Yes, she is only 16. But if she is paid more than Annika, then she has to win more than Annika. Period.
**********************************
Ah, no she doesn't. What gave you that idea?
Does Maria Sharapova win more than the other tennis players. No she doesn't, but she does get paid more.
You get paid what sponsors want to give you. If nike & sony think Michelle is good for their brands, they will give her tonnes of cash, simple as that.
By the way, Annika does very well in endorsement too, I don't think she will be awake at night worrying that Michelle is getting more. Annika is VERY well off.
Yes, she is only 16. But if she is paid more than Annika, then she has to win more than Annika. Period.
**********************************
Ah, no she doesn't. What gave you that idea?
Does Maria Sharapova win more than the other tennis players. No she doesn't, but she does get paid more.
You get paid what sponsors want to give you. If nike & sony think Michelle is good for their brands, they will give her tonnes of cash, simple as that.
By the way, Annika does very well in endorsement too, I don't think she will be awake at night worrying that Michelle is getting more. Annika is VERY well off.
2005-11-26 @ 18:34
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Johnny---surely you are not suggesting she is actually competing against the likes of Ernie Els, Vigay Singh and Adam Scott. They are playing to win she is simply trying to make the cut, big difference. My point is simply this she would be better served learning to handle pressure that can only come from being in contention down the stretch of a tournament, not from simply trying to make the cut in Men's tournaments she has no real chance of winning. This I beleive should have been her strategy all along from junior play all the way up to the LPGA. Maybe it would have produced some wins by now, maybe not.
2005-11-26 @ 18:59
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
The most exciting thing about Michelle Wie is the fact that she does compete against the men--and she does well enough in that competition to keep me and a lot of other people interested. I think everyone out there is better than you or me at handling pressure--but at her age, Michelle should still be trying to improve her game, rather than making the best of the game she has. And improving her game is what Michelle is trying to do. Remmeber she stil has about 2 and a half years left to break Creamer's record as the youngest winner of a multi-round LPGA event. Get back to us in 2 and a half years if she still hasn't won with suggestions as to what she might have done better.
2005-11-26 @ 21:46
Comment from: Jay [Visitor]
Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
I thought she was stupid to claim that her goal was to win the Casio. You don't talk about winning if you have never made a cut. This is just like setting your goal to win a single season slam before even winning A major.
****************************
I couldn't agree more. Even though she is a kid, she should be more realistic and modest. Other than that, she should keep playing with men, she is good.
I thought she was stupid to claim that her goal was to win the Casio. You don't talk about winning if you have never made a cut. This is just like setting your goal to win a single season slam before even winning A major.
****************************
I couldn't agree more. Even though she is a kid, she should be more realistic and modest. Other than that, she should keep playing with men, she is good.
2005-11-26 @ 22:01
Comment from: Monty [Visitor]
Hey, Chris...you must work at sports illustraged and took notes from michael bamberger!!!
2005-11-26 @ 23:34
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
This is ridiculous. If Michelle Wie just tries to make the cut, she is criticized for not trying to win, and if she tries to win, she is criticized for not just trying to make the cut. Her chances of winning next year's LPGA grand slam are better than her chances of winning a men's event, even in Japan--BUT NO ONE IN ANY TOURNAMENT SHOULD EVER BE CRITICIZED FOR SETTING A GOAL OF WINNING THAT TOURNAMENT. On the other hand it is insulting to other players to start talking about winning a grand slam before winning the first Major of the year the way Annika did this year--and I would hope that Michelle Wie would be more sensitive to her fellow pros than Annika was if and when she tries to win the grand slam.
2005-11-26 @ 23:56
Comment from: Paul [Visitor]
It's interesting to compare Michelle's stats at Casio with the winner (Taniguchi) and last year's winner (Smail) over the first 2 rounds ( http://jgto.org/jgto/WG02020000Init.do?year=2005&tournaKbnCd=0&conferenceCd=34 )
Driving distance: Wie 261, Taniguchi 262, Smail 266
Dirving accuracy: Wie 71, Taniguchi 64, Smail 68
GIR: Wie 64, Taniguchi 83, Smail 66
Putting: Wie 1.91, Taniguchi 1.77, Smail 1.91
Score (through 2nd round): Wie +4, Taniguchi -4, Smail +4
Clearly driving wasn't her problem (I'm not sure if the numbers are in meters or yards), the issue was more with irons and putting. It looks like her problems were more related to youth/nerves/inexperience than her gender. It seems reasonable for her to have a goal of winning, not just making the cut, at least in Japan. I'm sure Smail's goal was to win, and he basically tied Michelle on every stat.
Driving distance: Wie 261, Taniguchi 262, Smail 266
Dirving accuracy: Wie 71, Taniguchi 64, Smail 68
GIR: Wie 64, Taniguchi 83, Smail 66
Putting: Wie 1.91, Taniguchi 1.77, Smail 1.91
Score (through 2nd round): Wie +4, Taniguchi -4, Smail +4
Clearly driving wasn't her problem (I'm not sure if the numbers are in meters or yards), the issue was more with irons and putting. It looks like her problems were more related to youth/nerves/inexperience than her gender. It seems reasonable for her to have a goal of winning, not just making the cut, at least in Japan. I'm sure Smail's goal was to win, and he basically tied Michelle on every stat.
2005-11-27 @ 11:44
Comment from: Johnny [Visitor]
Matt said:
************************
Johnny---surely you are not suggesting she is actually competing against the likes of Ernie Els, Vigay Singh and Adam Scott. They are playing to win she is simply trying to make the cut, big difference. My point is simply this she would be better served learning to handle pressure that can only come from being in contention down the stretch of a tournament, not from simply trying to make the cut in Men's tournaments she has no real chance of winning. This I beleive should have been her strategy all along from junior play all the way up to the LPGA. Maybe it would have produced some wins by now, maybe not.
***********************
Matt, you said she was just missing the cut playing against part time tile-layers. I simply said, she missed the cut playing against top pros in the Sony Open too.
As regards only competing in tournaments you can win, I could name tonnes of players who never win on there respective tours. Look at Jean Van de Velde. He is 38 years old and won once back in 1993, in a very small tournament where he won 50,000 for winning. Why not insult him or others who have been playing for years with no real chance of winning.
If she stayed in juniors, you are right, she would have won some of those tournaments, but what good would that do her? It certainly wouldn't help her to win lpga tournaments, because they are a different thing completely. All it would have done, is robbed her of the experience she has gained at the top level, by taking the route she has.
************************
Johnny---surely you are not suggesting she is actually competing against the likes of Ernie Els, Vigay Singh and Adam Scott. They are playing to win she is simply trying to make the cut, big difference. My point is simply this she would be better served learning to handle pressure that can only come from being in contention down the stretch of a tournament, not from simply trying to make the cut in Men's tournaments she has no real chance of winning. This I beleive should have been her strategy all along from junior play all the way up to the LPGA. Maybe it would have produced some wins by now, maybe not.
***********************
Matt, you said she was just missing the cut playing against part time tile-layers. I simply said, she missed the cut playing against top pros in the Sony Open too.
As regards only competing in tournaments you can win, I could name tonnes of players who never win on there respective tours. Look at Jean Van de Velde. He is 38 years old and won once back in 1993, in a very small tournament where he won 50,000 for winning. Why not insult him or others who have been playing for years with no real chance of winning.
If she stayed in juniors, you are right, she would have won some of those tournaments, but what good would that do her? It certainly wouldn't help her to win lpga tournaments, because they are a different thing completely. All it would have done, is robbed her of the experience she has gained at the top level, by taking the route she has.
2005-11-27 @ 13:22
Comment from: Jay [Visitor]
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
This is ridiculous. If Michelle Wie just tries to make the cut, she is criticized for not trying to win, and if she tries to win, she is criticized for not just trying to make the cut.
***********************************
It is perfectly fine, even encouraged for someone to have a goal of winning. No problem with that.
However, there is something called "being reserved". There are people who come out of nowhere to win events and surprise everyone(and I am sure they had the thought of winning before the event), but I don't remember seeing them saying in front of a camera "the plan is to win". Even Joe Namath was critisized for his bashful predictions for the Super bowl, but he had MUCH MUCH better odds than Michelle. Come on, she never even won a LPGA.
The thing is, when she said her goal was to win, I don't think anyone took her words seriously. I think that just means she speaks her mind freely like the current young generations,(and NIKE isn't giving her every script) but as a thirtysomething generation, I find it a 'wie' bit repulsive. But in anycase, overall she just needs to mature a little, no big deal.
This is ridiculous. If Michelle Wie just tries to make the cut, she is criticized for not trying to win, and if she tries to win, she is criticized for not just trying to make the cut.
***********************************
It is perfectly fine, even encouraged for someone to have a goal of winning. No problem with that.
However, there is something called "being reserved". There are people who come out of nowhere to win events and surprise everyone(and I am sure they had the thought of winning before the event), but I don't remember seeing them saying in front of a camera "the plan is to win". Even Joe Namath was critisized for his bashful predictions for the Super bowl, but he had MUCH MUCH better odds than Michelle. Come on, she never even won a LPGA.
The thing is, when she said her goal was to win, I don't think anyone took her words seriously. I think that just means she speaks her mind freely like the current young generations,(and NIKE isn't giving her every script) but as a thirtysomething generation, I find it a 'wie' bit repulsive. But in anycase, overall she just needs to mature a little, no big deal.
2005-11-27 @ 14:39
Comment from: Paul [Visitor]
She said her "goal" was to win, not that she "expected" to win. As I take it, all she was saying is that she's not entering "men's" events just to make the cut. That doesn't seem boastful to me. If she was entering just to make the cut, we could legimately accuse her of taking a slot away from someone else who was really competing.
2005-11-27 @ 14:56
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I agree with Paul.
If she said "I think I will win", then I would disagree with her.
However saying "The aim is to win", is no big deal. I would guess that, that was the aim of all the players. I would bet if you asked any of them before the tournament started, "What is your aim?", they would all say "I want to win", some of them would qualify it with "although I don't expect to" or "if I don't, a high finish would be nice", but they all aim to win.
If she said "I think I will win", then I would disagree with her.
However saying "The aim is to win", is no big deal. I would guess that, that was the aim of all the players. I would bet if you asked any of them before the tournament started, "What is your aim?", they would all say "I want to win", some of them would qualify it with "although I don't expect to" or "if I don't, a high finish would be nice", but they all aim to win.
2005-11-27 @ 16:19
" I wanna play on the PGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the LPGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the Asian Tour "
" I wanna play on the European Tour "
" I wanna go to Stanford "
" I wanna do all of this in the same year "
Pleeeze, BJ have a talk with your daughter!!
" I wanna play on the LPGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the Asian Tour "
" I wanna play on the European Tour "
" I wanna go to Stanford "
" I wanna do all of this in the same year "
Pleeeze, BJ have a talk with your daughter!!
2005-11-27 @ 20:53
Comment from: Justice [Visitor]
Whatever you all say,
I love LPGA and PGA that Wie palys.
She is sooooo great with beautiful swings and etc... She talks much better than Morgan and Creamer.
I am sure she will win later or sooner. She is very solid as Annika said. And about money, what is so wrong about getting money as pro.
She is only 16 and is doing her best. Many kudos for her!!!
I love LPGA and PGA that Wie palys.
She is sooooo great with beautiful swings and etc... She talks much better than Morgan and Creamer.
I am sure she will win later or sooner. She is very solid as Annika said. And about money, what is so wrong about getting money as pro.
She is only 16 and is doing her best. Many kudos for her!!!
2005-11-27 @ 21:26
Paul, what planet are you from. Of course MW just wants to make a cut on a mens tour, any mens tour. She might say she wants to win, but she also said that illegal drop was "only 3 inchese"... Go figure
2005-11-28 @ 00:20
Comment from: Lee [Visitor]
Chris, first off,I find it hard to understand how you can be so petty and mean to a 16-year old girl. If you had a daughter her age would you appreciate comments like yours?
Also, what's wrong with going for the money? Let's say MW hits her worse case scenario, say she doesn't make the cut or come close to winning in ANY tournament over the next two years and she quits golf in tears because of that and nasty comments from people like Chris. Guess what, she's probably made $15-20 million by then! Wish I could fail like that!
Also, what's wrong with going for the money? Let's say MW hits her worse case scenario, say she doesn't make the cut or come close to winning in ANY tournament over the next two years and she quits golf in tears because of that and nasty comments from people like Chris. Guess what, she's probably made $15-20 million by then! Wish I could fail like that!
2005-11-28 @ 03:18
Baldwin is a bit overzealous in his disdain for Wie, but his points are not that far off.
2005-11-28 @ 09:09
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Joe Cool said:
********************
" I wanna play on the PGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the LPGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the Asian Tour "
" I wanna play on the European Tour "
" I wanna go to Stanford "
" I wanna do all of this in the same year "
Pleeeze, BJ have a talk with your daughter!!
*************************
Basically Michelle wants to play the 8 lpga events that she is allowed to play.
After that, she cannot play more lpga events, so sge enters some mens tournaments, be they pga, or japan tour or whatever, they are all valuable experience.
Nothing wrong with that!!!!
********************
" I wanna play on the PGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the LPGA Tour "
" I wanna play on the Asian Tour "
" I wanna play on the European Tour "
" I wanna go to Stanford "
" I wanna do all of this in the same year "
Pleeeze, BJ have a talk with your daughter!!
*************************
Basically Michelle wants to play the 8 lpga events that she is allowed to play.
After that, she cannot play more lpga events, so sge enters some mens tournaments, be they pga, or japan tour or whatever, they are all valuable experience.
Nothing wrong with that!!!!
2005-11-28 @ 16:06
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Michelle Wie does not say "I wanna go to Stanford", she says "I want to go to Stanford". There is a big difference. As far as the European Tour is concerned--I think they are afraid to play against Michelle Wie so they may ban women from their events. I don't know what Norman has to say on the topic--but I think the European men should listen to what he has to say.
2005-11-28 @ 21:28
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I say, that Van de Velde is absoultely petrified.
Van de Velde has won ONCE on the European tour in a long career, he is 38 years old. That win was in 1993, and he won 50,000 pounds for it.
Before people start shouting how many has Michelle won, come back and ask that question when she is 38 years old.
Jim, as regards the European tour, Van de Velde is bringing proposals to the tour to ban women, in Decemeber, and if they get to voting stage, it would be voted on in January, so it's not like it is signed or anything.
If a ban on women is put through, it will basically make a mockery of the European tour. The issue here is not if women are good enough to play with men, but, should they have a chance to qualify. To stop women from even being allowed to qualify would be sexism at it's worst. Can you imagine if they tried to put proposals in to block homosexuals from playing, human rights people would be shouting so loud!
Van de Velde has won ONCE on the European tour in a long career, he is 38 years old. That win was in 1993, and he won 50,000 pounds for it.
Before people start shouting how many has Michelle won, come back and ask that question when she is 38 years old.
Jim, as regards the European tour, Van de Velde is bringing proposals to the tour to ban women, in Decemeber, and if they get to voting stage, it would be voted on in January, so it's not like it is signed or anything.
If a ban on women is put through, it will basically make a mockery of the European tour. The issue here is not if women are good enough to play with men, but, should they have a chance to qualify. To stop women from even being allowed to qualify would be sexism at it's worst. Can you imagine if they tried to put proposals in to block homosexuals from playing, human rights people would be shouting so loud!
2005-11-29 @ 14:15
Comment from: Paul [Visitor]
If they ban women in the "men's" European tour, the women should sue to demand equal purses for women's and men's events.
2005-11-29 @ 16:46
Comment from: Justice [Visitor]
I let my child to take a higher grade exam. It is much better to have a real challenge. I think BJ is a great parent. It is very difficult to make a kid like Wie. Also Wie is a great kid who is doing her best.
Wie should aim high always.
Wie should aim high always.
2005-11-30 @ 00:26
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Women and girls cannot compete with men and boys in any sport or other field of human endeavor that requires strength, agility, speed, aggressiveness, and hand-eye coordination or any combination of these attributes. Not in baseball, basketball, football, volleyball, soccer, tennis, track and field, swimming and diving, billiards or bowling, just to name a few. Why then would any sensible person think that Michelle Wie or any other female will ever be able to compete successfully against men on the PGA tour?
2005-12-05 @ 12:29
Comment from: SoSplat [Visitor]
Gasoline for the flames.
The big problem here was underestimating the Japanese Tour field (besides jeg lag, etc.).
No one's pointed this out, but she tied on the wrong side of the cut line with a middle-school student, also on an exemption. This kid did just as good as her, and is known for doing pleanty better generally. He has actually made the cut at Japan Tour events (yes, men's).
The big problem here was underestimating the Japanese Tour field (besides jeg lag, etc.).
No one's pointed this out, but she tied on the wrong side of the cut line with a middle-school student, also on an exemption. This kid did just as good as her, and is known for doing pleanty better generally. He has actually made the cut at Japan Tour events (yes, men's).
2005-12-06 @ 04:10
Comment from: Barry [Visitor]
There is no doubt Michelle Wie is a hugely talented golfer, that is stating the obvious. However her 'handlers' (the very term, common though it is, sums up so much of what is going on) are not doing this 'girl' any favours whatsoever. Competeing against the men at some stage in her career may be something to look forward to but not as a 16 year old. All of the other top players in the world, Mickleson, Els, Goosen, Sorenstam and even Woods himself, though all identified as talents at an early age stayed in the relative anonymity of the amatuer game for so much longer than Wie has, giving them so much more time to mature physically and emotionally. The spotlight and prssure being applied to this girl at such an early time in her career is going to be destructive, and all for the sake of Nike et al making lots more dollars. And they call this sport !!!
2005-12-06 @ 06:54
Comment from: Jim Coulthard [Visitor]
Michelle Wie had no anonymity as a 15 year old amateur. Why shouldn't she take 10 million or more per year--there would not have been significantly less pressure if she had stayed an amateur.
2005-12-16 @ 23:08
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