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187 comments

Comment from: matt [Visitor]
I'm suprised the Wie cult have not jumped all over this. Maybe they are boycotting Chris, because it's easier to cry jealousy and sour grapes than face the facts. Until Ms. Wie wins, which for the record I believe she will someday on the LPGA Tour she will simply be known as a spindly young girl with a ton of potential who couldn't measure up to the hype.
2005-12-07 @ 22:20
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
People predicted you won't wait until sony to rip wie. Obviously they knew something.
Anyway Didn't Morgan declair her goal is winning Q school, not simply earning card? When I checked, Morgan was drilled by Ai Miyazato by 14 strokes. I never thought you would praise a girl finished 14 strokes behind leader.
Also Morgan finished big names like Libby smith, Lee ann Walker-Cooper, Brooke Tull,Katie Futcher. Can I say "overhyped"?

Also are you saying Herb Krickstein gets it? Definitely he knows how to ruin phenom. Does anybody Remmeber what happened to his son?
2005-12-07 @ 22:23
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Finishing 6th in Q-School accomplishes the same goal as winning, Gaining an LPGA Tour Card. So while Morgan may not have played as well as she would have liked, she did actually accomplish something, unlike Wie who last time I checked has been handed most everything she has ever gotten. Oh, by the way Aaron Krickstien had a pretty decent career winning the junior national championship, nine pro titles, reaching a top ranking of #6 world all in an career cut short by injury. Yeah, Herb Krickstien really raised a loser and did a Michelle Wie fan just use the term, "overhyped" to describe someone else---gotta love the irony.
2005-12-07 @ 22:43
Comment from: Abe [Visitor]
I'd take Michelle Wie's 3 -Top 5 finishes in the LPGA tour this summer over Morgan Pressel's 6th place finish at Q school any day.

Aaron Krickstein-how many grand slams did he win ?
2005-12-07 @ 23:50
Comment from: Ken [Visitor]

Not to get political , but you know that the Pressel family in Florida especially "Gramps" are very active right wing ultra Conservatives right.
Let's just say they don't have the best record concerning racial issues here ....
2005-12-07 @ 23:54
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

Baldwin and Pressel have a lot in common---

the only way they can get any kind of attention is if they slam Michelle Wie in the media.

Anyone heard of either Pressel or Baldwin unitl they both decided to ride Michelle's coattails---

The funny thing is Michelle could care less...
2005-12-08 @ 00:24
Comment from: Bozza [Visitor]
Please stop these futile anti-Wie comments.
Your facts are wrong and, therefore, your argument is completely pointless.
Move on to something you actually have some knowledge of and leave the Michelle Wie critics to themselves. At least they know what their talking about.
Fool.
2005-12-08 @ 09:41
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
For all of you supercilious morons who have been drinking the Wie "Kool Aid" and particularly Ken who sees a "Ultra Right Wing Conspiracy behind each golf bag. Let's let their records after next year do the talking. Can anyone tell me why Wie was not in the LPGA Q School?
2005-12-08 @ 12:07
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
What has Wie got to do with Pressels Grandfather.
Wie doesn't want to play full time on the LPGA so why should she care what the age limit is.
Only playing 8 events suits her plans, it leaves her time to play on the PGA and lucrative invitations in other countries like Japan.
Wie probably earned more for 1 appearance in Japan than Cramer did from a sucessful years tournament earnings and she was second on the money list.
Figure it out it's not difficult.

And again for the record based on her finishes in the LPGA events Wie played in this year she would be ranked 2nd to Anika.
Alan M
2005-12-08 @ 12:10
Comment from: Ann [Visitor]
mike,

you seem to be suggesting that wie did not enter q school becuase she wasn't as great as pressel. i think the media-generated rival between these two would be interesting to watch the next year. however, to answer you question wie wasn't in q school because she does not want to become a full-fledge lpga member yet. if she is a member, she has to play a certain amount of tournaments, something her schedule does not allow her to do. however, by not committing to the lpga, she can play in any event she desired (although limit lpga events i believe is 8)and also play in pga tournamets according to her schedule. she's only a highschool student, and i guess it's not bad if she prioritized her education first.

p.s. Chris the only reason you bash Wie is to get comments. here's a pity comment for you.
2005-12-08 @ 13:49
Comment from: Dan [Visitor]
You've sunk to a new low Baldie--

after attacking a 16 year old for pursuing her dreams, you now attack her Dad too.

Pathetic...
2005-12-08 @ 14:14
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Chris is really talented. To make up a story insulting Wie, after Pressel finished 14 strokes behind the lead is really imaginative. Well done.

Pressel was at the lpga q-school to win the tournament. That's what she said. She did pretty bad in that quest, but at least she qualified.

Chris you talk about the Michelle Wie hype, but what about this:
On a tv golf show, it was mentioned that Pressel qualified from the lpga tour school and it showed her taking a few shots. There was absolutely no mention of anyone else. No mention of Ai Miyazato who won it by 12 shots from the field.
That's what I call Pressel-mania hype.
2005-12-08 @ 14:20
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
As the immortal Al Davis said, "Just Win Baby". Alan I think I have figured it out---Wie and her handlers..I mean parents and Nike care about the money, the hype, and the marketing machine she has become. It's the reason that she seldom competed against those her own age, and the same reason she is attempting to compete against the men. if she loses to the men people like you will say how great she played for a little girl, but if she loses to kids her own age which she has than there is no excuse. Her results have been impressive on the LPGA, but no more impressive than those of Pressel's and Creamer's. Oh and to the fool(Ken) who implies that the Krieckstein family is ultra-right wing conservative and racist---I know Herb Krickstien from our country club in CT. that would be our Jewish Country Club, he like many of us is a member there because we could not get into non-jewish clubs in the area based on our religious beliefs. An ultra-right wing conservative Republican Jew, that's a new one. you want to make Baldwin shut-up just have Michelle win something...anything.
2005-12-08 @ 14:21
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Matt, maybe we should rethink our position. Maybe the Wie cabal has it right. After all, to BJ and the rest of the Wie entourage, money is the ONLY consideration. Why should their precocious charge be exposed to a bunch of her predatory peers and the possibility of embarrassment when she can drag down $1M in "appearance money" for missing the cut in what can best be described as a minor men's tournament? Incidentally, the Casio did not have one player in it ranked in the top 250 worldwide, in fact, the field contained only 98 players, none of the top ten Japanese golfers, The top 60 and ties made the cut. MW didn't. But, so what? BJ got the cash! In the category of over-hyping, perhaps the most egregious instance of 2005 occurred during the telecast of the John Deere, another missed cut for Michelle Wie. On the segment called "shot of the day", a replay of MW pitching from about 40 yards to within three feet of from the hole was given the title of "shot of the day". A few minutes later the network aired a replay of a spectacular hole-in-one by Shigeki Maruyama, shot that same day about an hour before MW's masterpiece.
2005-12-08 @ 15:20
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
John---Thank you for writing. I was beginning to lose faith in my fellow man. Criticize Michelle Wie and you are jealous, sexist, racist or worse. Could I be all these things? Or am I just a golf enthusiast who likes to see results, wins and hard work be the motivating factors in deciding our next superstars. Michelle has been put on the mountain top and I'm not sure how she got there; raw talent? potential? Not wins and accomplishment that I do know.
2005-12-08 @ 15:45
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Comment from: Ken [Visitor]

*Not to get political*

Although in true hypocritical fashion, that is precisely what you did...

*but you know that the Pressel family in Florida especially "Gramps" are very active right wing ultra Conservatives right.*

And that is relevant to golf ... how?

*Let's just say they don't have the best record concerning racial issues here*

So what are you saying, exactly? If you're a conservative, you're a racist? Could you say anything dumber? Then again, let's just give you time.

Or are you saying there is proof that Grandpa Krickstein and/or granddaughter Morgan are racists?

If so, what is that evidence?

If you don't have it, retract your statement.

Or you could be a coward and just be silent.

Or are you saying that blond and Nordic-looking = Aryan nation types?

If so, be sure to forward your quaint Third Reich theories to blondes like Jack Nicklaus. You probably figure the "Golden Bear" avoids talking to Tiger Woods, right Herr Ken?

-George
2005-12-08 @ 15:51
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

Politics aside...

What the heck does Michelle Wie have to do with any of this ?

We're talking about Pressel finishing 6th in Q-school--Wie was hundreds of miles away in the 11th grade.

Baldwin -you need to get a life !


2005-12-08 @ 16:07
Comment from: Kim [Visitor]
Pressel is so jealous of Michelle Wie -she can't even see straight.

Her comments about Michelle have been catty and immature and that certainly does not qualify her as being confident .

If anything it shows how insecure she is.
2005-12-08 @ 16:15
Comment from: Bradley [Visitor]

GOLF SUCKS AND

MORGAN PRESSEL LOOKS LIKE CHARLIE WEIS IN DRAG!!
2005-12-08 @ 16:17
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
* Michelle has been put on the mountain top and I'm not sure how she got there; raw talent? potential? Not wins and accomplishment that I do know. *

There was a moment when It could have been Morgan vs. Michelle in 2005. Had Michelle just skipped the Women's British Open she could have faced off against her peers, including Pressel in the U.S. Women's Amateur.

Instead, Michelle entered two overseas tournaments in which she finished at a great distance from the winner in both cases. Wie might have been a top 10 finisher at Evian and the British Open, but Wie failed to challenge either Creamer or Jang -- or anyone -- down the stretch. In neither case was Wie in the final pairing.

But the Women's Amateur is a tournament Wie would be actually *expected* to win, or at least be a top contender. Instead of putting it on the line and shutting up Pressel once and for all, Wie ducked Morgan and was conveniently unavailable for a tournament that would pit Wie against her peers.

I am not criticizing B.J. Wie's strategy. The goal clearly was to strike while the iron was hot and make Michelle and her family fabulously wealthy. They succeeded, and as I have said multiple times elsewhere, good for them.

The Wies and everyone else should make as much money as possible legally. Everyone should be rich and everyone should make more money than they do now. That's my free-market philosophy.

But it is also clear that the strategy is for Michelle to create as much buzz and make as much money as possible without getting into the dreary grind of being on a tour full-time.

In fact, entering high-profile events that Michelle has little chance of winning is all part of the strategy. Whether she wins or loses works just as well. If Wie wins (in the near term), she becomes the youngest LPGA winner ever. If Wie loses, then the cry from the Wie Warriors is "Don't criticize Michelle: Michelle is only xxTeen years old."

This is truly a win-win situation in which Michelle cannot lose no matter what she does.

And even better, turning pro PRECLUDES Michelle from competing in amateur events where it would be easier to measure her accomplishments. And she's too young to be a full-time LPGA member for at least 2-3 years, unless they change the rules specially for Michelle.

Even if she becomes a full-time LPGA member someday and still doesn't win, the story line for at least a couple of years will be, "What do you expect, Sorenstam, Creamer, Pressel, Miyazako, Gulbis, Kerr, (fill in the blank of a successful pro golfer) have more tour experience."

We already hear that now: "Michelle is rusty. That's why she didn't win. She doesn't play often enough."

That's an excuse that will serve well for the next 3-4 years.

So again, please understand. I applaud the get-rich gambit, because it worked, and it was legal.

But it's also time for the Wie Warriors who are fanatic drinkers of the Wie Kool Aid -- which is every one of the Wie Warriors -- to concede that this is the strategy.

The strategy for at least the next few years is to avoid all tournaments in which Michelle is a favorite. Enter only tournaments that fuel more hype and buzz.

That way, Wie's stumbles will not tarnish her mystique.

-George
2005-12-08 @ 16:21
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Sheryl, Baldwin doesn't have a life outside bashing Michelle. That is a plain and simple fact.
2005-12-08 @ 16:24
Comment from: Jen [Visitor]


Matt,
I find it very disingenuous that you are being critical of Michelle Wie in this blog now that you've outed youself as a friend of the Pressel and Krickstein family.

At least Michelle Wie's family, friends and handlers have conducted themselves with class and dignity and have NEVER said anything derogatory about Morgan Pressel.

I definitely cannot say the same for Morgan Pressel who has insulted and disrespected Michelle Wie in the press every opportunity she has gotten. And I certainly cannot say the same about you after seeing your comments on this blog regarding Michelle.

Maybe you can tell your friend Herb next time you see him at the country club that his daughter needs to conduct herself better.

2005-12-08 @ 16:27
Comment from: Jon [Visitor]
Matt got owned!
2005-12-08 @ 16:29
Comment from: Kendra [Visitor]
Matt

Just curious-don't take this as attacking you but
do they allow female members or people of color in that country club of yours ?

And yes George--I think most conservatives are racist .
2005-12-08 @ 16:35
Comment from: Lisa [Visitor]

OK guys-- no more politics please

Lets just talk about something we all agree on

Chris Baldwin is a LOSER !
2005-12-08 @ 16:43
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Kendra:
*I think most conservatives are racist*

Behold the intelligence of the typical Wie Warrior!

If the Wie Warriors held a Mensa contest, you would win, Kendra!

When I asked Ken if he could possible say something dumber, I didn't think he would get trumped so quickly!

-George
2005-12-08 @ 17:54
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Chris. where is your new masterpiece " Ai Miyazato was always better than pressel and will always be better than pressel"?
Ai Miyazato drilled your girl by 14 strokes and Ai will beat pressel by even bigger margin in more important category : "class"
2005-12-08 @ 18:33
Comment from: Lisa [Visitor]
George

You're offended by someone stereotyping all conservatives as racist yet you turn around and
stereotype "typical Wie Warriors" as dumb.

Its called hypocrisy--look it up if don't know what it means.
2005-12-08 @ 19:04
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George said:
*************************
There was a moment when It could have been Morgan vs. Michelle in 2005. Had Michelle just skipped the Women's British Open she could have faced off against her peers, including Pressel in the U.S. Women's Amateur.

Instead, Michelle entered two overseas tournaments in which she finished at a great distance from the winner in both cases. Wie might have been a top 10 finisher at Evian and the British Open, but Wie failed to challenge either Creamer or Jang -- or anyone -- down the stretch. In neither case was Wie in the final pairing.

****************************

George, you think Michelle Wie should have given up the Evian (5th major) and the British Open (a major) to compete in some amatuer tournament?
Even if she just gave up the British Open. Lets say she actually won this amatuer tournament and beat Pressel. What would would that have done her? Finishing 3rd in the womens British Open was FAR ahead of winning an amatuer tournament.
British Open is A MAJOR.

Do you honestly believe ANY golfer would give up the chance at the British Open to play this other tournament?
Perhaps Paula Creamer should have not turned professional when she did, and retained her amatuer status and entered it too?
2005-12-08 @ 19:07
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
George
Why would Wie play in an amateur event given the chance to play at the British Open, Duh a bit of a no brainer wouldn't you say.
Finishing 2nd and 3rd is hardly a poor effort.
Can you name one person who had two better results at the Evian and British open.
As a Wie warrior it is great reading all the crap that comes on this blog knowing that one day I can write "I told you so"
By then she may have earned $100m travelling round in her own private jet. I wish I could be a loser like her.
Just remember she is such a sucess because of her fans. Isn't that what sport is all about.

Alan M



2005-12-08 @ 19:22
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
Alan, welcome to the upside down world of the Wie bashers. Wie tries to play against the best players she can and they call her a coward. If she tries to challenge herself so she can improve in the long term, they say she should take an easier path so she can win more quickly. They just hate to see someone try something new for fear she'll succeed.
2005-12-08 @ 20:29
Comment from: j [Visitor]
alan,
I agree!!!
2005-12-08 @ 20:36
Comment from: Ken D. [Visitor]
"I don't see why she's out trying to make cuts every week," Pressel said of Wie. "I don't see the reason for that. It's for the publicity."

"If she's good enough to win a men's event, more power to her...but I have serious doubts that can be done." - Aaron Krickstein

In another interview, Krickstein expressed loud bewilderment over Michelle's popularity. Pressel/Krickstein are not role models for class. Why is it so important to them to sound off to the media about a 16 year old girl, as if knocking her would enhance Morgan's public standing (or attract sponsors). Michelle is younger, but shows so much more maturity. She's graceful and articulate. I would root for Morgan if she didn't act so nasty.

Jealousy I guess...if you enter "Morgan Pressel" in Google you get 81,300 hits. For "Michelle Wie" it's 924,000. Maybe they're all in a snit they're losing the battle of "hearts and minds"?
2005-12-08 @ 22:04
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
So many questions to answer, so much anger to address. Kendra, we have a number of female members, including our former President of the Board. There are no African-American Memebers currently. There is nothing disingenous about defending the honor of a gentleman who is neither racist nor an ultra-conservative. He is simply a father who raised an extremely talented son and a loving grandfather to an equally talented young lady. Do I agree with everything that Morgan Pressel has said, absolutely not, but you have to remember that Pressel was the orinial Wie. She was the youngest ever to qualify for the Women's Open, she has won every junior and amatuer title possible, petitioned to go to Q-school early and earned her LPGA Tour card through hard work---All the while Wie hits some big drives, fails to win some tournaments, misses the cut in some men's events and she is the one with the huge endoresment deal and the tag of the next big thing. Bitter? maybe. Jealous of the attention on Wie? probably. A brat? sometimes. Think back to when you were 17 we all said things we regret. Wie and her father have made numerous disperaging remarks to fellow LPGA players, junior competition and the like. Never forget though that Morgan has earned every bit of her hype, the same can not be said of Wie. Will wie be better than Pressel, who knows, but right now I would take the fiery competitor over the overhyped girl with the tendency to fade when the going gets tough and cry when the big kids don't play nice.
2005-12-08 @ 22:04
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Kendra, None of this political claptrap has anything to do with golf, but do you really believe that since most members of our Armed Forces are conservatives, that most of our young men in uniform are racists? Now, it is possible that a couple of rabid right wingers like Mr. Pressel and Herb Krickstein, being from Florida, might be connected to the conservative hurricane machine....
2005-12-08 @ 22:23
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]
"Wie and her father have made numerous disperaging remarks to fellow LPGA players, junior competition and the like "

Matt, I've followed golf for many years, and I honestly have not heard either Michelle or her Dad disparage anyone publicly in the manner you have said. In fact, its very much the other way around.

I do agree with you Pressel is only 17, I'm going to give her a pass on some of her catty behavior. I do hope she grows out of it soon though, she makes it very hard to root for her when she is so disrespectful of the competition. Its not really Michelle's fault she gets the lion share of the attention, so Morgan should focus her anger on the sports media, and the like.
2005-12-08 @ 22:53
Comment from: Vernon W [Visitor]
Matt,
Just as I thought. You know nothing about Wie. I have followed her career since she was 11, read every article I could find on her, listened to every interview she has given in public. I have NEVER read or heard her say any negative about anyone except perhaps D Amacaccapane. I CHALLENGE you to show proof of any disparaging remarks Wie has made about anyone else in public. If you can, I will apologize profusely for each one. If you cannot, I expect you to apologize for your error.
2005-12-09 @ 02:14
Comment from: j [Visitor]
Matt, u r such a loooooooser!!!
2005-12-09 @ 04:30
Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
Don't be so hard on Matt-he's not that bad.

Its Chris Baldwin and George that are the douche bags!
2005-12-09 @ 07:30
Comment from: JohN Zedella [Visitor]
j, the contest for the most inane and incongruous comment is now officially over. The judges have declared you the winner of all the prizes, in fact, you have retired the trophy. Now we think it is time for you to return to your sandbox. We adults would appreciate some sensible repartee. Thank you.
2005-12-09 @ 10:04
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
No waaay j you are the looooser. Sorry, thought I was back in Junior High for a second. Listen---I have a tremendous amount of respect for Michelle Wie, she has a world of talent and seems destined for greatness this much is not in question. What is in question is the path she has chosen to take to ultimately achieve that greatness. Should she have focused on winning at the junior level, then the amatuer level, then the women's tour and then ultimately perhaps set her sights on the men. I personally think so, but thats just my opinion. It is a model that has worked for people like Tiger Woods and Paula Creamer just to name a couple. To me playing against the best competition you can find is admirable, but losing begats losing and no matter how well she plays against the men ultimately she will lose, even if she makes the cut she will not be gaining the much needed experience of needing to make a crucial putt, chip, approach, whatever to win. She has played beautifully in LPGA sponser exemption events finishing second in a number of them---would she have won be now with the experience, knowledge and confidence that comes with winning at other levels---that is the argument, not whether or not Michelle Wie is going to be great(she is). Vernon, for the record she and her father have often told reporters that Michelle did not compete against kids her own age because there would be no point, saying that she would dominate them and that their talent level is not even worth mentioning against her's. This of course is arogant and untrue. Does this make Michelle a jerk, no it makes her cocky just like Morgan Pressel and Paula Creamer and frankly you need a little bit of that to succed. You are right about one thing, Wie is handled better than Pressel--in fact we know precious little about the real Michelle Wie--we only know what her father, William Moris agency, Sony and Nike want us to know. So regardless of how long you have been following Michelle Wie's career(since 11 Vernon, a little creepy) you know nothing about her either. She is a slickly marketed young girl with loads of talent, but as of yet little substance. Thanks, Jack for recognizing that differing opinions don't make somebody a bad person.
2005-12-09 @ 10:37
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Matt. "hype" is earned by achieving extraordinary thing. pressel family and her fans just don't want admit Wie earned hype because she did extraordinary things. Instead they want to believe there should be other reason for hype (because wie is minority?)and obviously Herb has been inserting that distorted idea to his granddaughter.

Simply look at the facts.
Morgan has one record related to qualifying. She was youngest to qualify for women's open.
Meanwhile, wie was youngest to qualify for USGA championship when she qualfied for women's publinx at 10.
Wie was youngest player to monday qualify for lpga tournament at 12. She qualified not once but twice when she was 12.
Wie is only female player ever to qualify for men's usga championship. Now who do you think has more qualifying records?

Let's talk about records in major. Wie recorded 4 top 10(2nd,3rd,4th and 9th finish each) in major before her 16th birthday. Morgan made one "cut" before her 16th birthday. Can you name any player who recorded 2 top 10,let alone 4 top10 finish in major before 16th birthday? Now do you know why Wie gets more press than Morgan?
Yes, Morgan was runner up in women's open but wie already had runner up finish in major. Yes, morgan won women's amateur but that's not exactly extraordinary performance which deserves hype. Last year's winner Jane park was also 17 year old and nobody cared. Wie won USGA adult championship at 13 and no player younger than 16 old ever won Adult championship before. That's what you call extraordinary.
2005-12-09 @ 10:41
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Qualifying versus Winning, Publinx versus US women's Amatuer. Come on Jay are you kidding me. Morgan Pressel won the career grand slam of American Junior Golf that's all five of the most prestigous tournaments and The Women's Amat Open the most prestigous women's amatuer event in the world. Wie won no major junior tournamnts and The Women's Pub linx he least prestigous amat title. Qualifying records are nice, but they are not wins and never will be and mean precious little when you qualify and get smoked. You can argue that Wie will be the better of the two in the future, fine, you can argue that Pressel needs to focus less on talking trash and more on playing golf, you can even argue tht Wie's results have been slightly better on the LPGA tour thus far, but you can not argue that she has accomplished more to this point in her career, because she has not. i love the argument from all the Wie people---she almost made the cut against men, she almost won a tournament, she almost beat the boys. Enough of the almosts and youngest and qualifies WIN.
2005-12-09 @ 11:07
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt said:
*******************************
She has played beautifully in LPGA sponser exemption events finishing second in a number of them---would she have won be now with the experience, knowledge and confidence that comes with winning at other levels---that is the argument, not whether or not Michelle Wie is going to be great(she is).
*******************************

I think this is where you are missing the point. In my opinion, if she had consentrated on amatuer titles, sure she would have won a couple of titles.
However if she took the road you suggest, she wouldn't even have been playing in many lpga events, so how could she have won by now?
By taking the road she has, she is gaining valuable experience, that will probably help her win earlier in the lpga than anyone else has so far.

Please anyone who has any doubts, look just above this post as Jay's post, where the facts are stated, about how much Wie has achieved quicker in her career than Pressel.
That is why Wie has the hype, because of all she has achieved in comparison to others at that stage of their careers.
2005-12-09 @ 11:20
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt said:
Qualifying records are nice, but they are not wins and never will be and mean precious little when you qualify and get smoked.
*****************************

But of course Pressel qualifying out of q-school is brilliant.
2005-12-09 @ 11:22
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
matt
Michelle lives in Hawaii.
She dominated that competition. Do you really think she would travel to the mainland on a regular basis to compete at a junior level when she could be competing against the best professionals in the world Male and Female.
She has chosen a different approach, why can't people just accept it for what it is? jealously plain and simple.
I assume you play golf. If this weekend you have the choice of playing a round with your pals or Ernie Els who would you choose?

Alan M


2005-12-09 @ 11:34
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt said:
i love the argument from all the Wie people---she almost made the cut against men, she almost won a tournament, she almost beat the boys. Enough of the almosts and youngest and qualifies WIN.
****************************

but when Morgan Pressel almost won the US womens open, that was brilliant.

I think we are getting a pattern here.

If Morgan Pressel does something it's great, if Michelle Wie does the same thing it is useless.
2005-12-09 @ 11:43
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
It would seem that several posters on this board think that it is not only possible but highly likely that Michelle Wie will, sometime in the not-too-distant future, be able to compete successfully against the best male players on the planet. Not against the up-and-comers on the Hooters' tour, the Canadian tour, or even the Nationwide tour, mind you. No sirree! They will be satisfied with nothing less than an occasional MW win on the PGA tour sandwiched in among several top tens. Just how these miracles will be accomplished remains a mystery. Biologically, it is virtually impossible for any female to ever develop the strength and manual and physical dexterity of a male of comparable age an athletic ability. Similarly, women do not have the emotional makeup to develop the aggressiveness, competitive spirit, or "killer instincts" of PGA pros. Therefore, barring the ingestion and/or injection of harmful steroids and HGH, I see only one way for MW's cadre of supporters to level the playing field. The Wie Warriors must petition the powers that be to repeal Gregor Mendel's Laws of Heredity and Genetics. They are outdated anyway, having been formulated in the 1850's. The basis for lawsuits can be either "evolution" or "intelligent design". Not to pursue this course of action would be "sexist" and in MW's case "racist".
2005-12-09 @ 11:54
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Please--I no longer wish to argue Morgan Pressel vs. Michelle Wie. Time will tell who has the better career. I think they both will be great. Tiger Woods and I simply believe that Michelle might have been better served playing and dominating her peers, thats all. I think we can all agree dominating Hawaii/local golf is not the same as dominating The American Junior Golf Association level talent. Alan to answer your question I do play golf and used to play competitively and have actually had the honor and privlege to play with Mr. Els at Westchester Country Club and if I wanted an experience I would play again with Ernie Els, if I wanted to win and have a true chance of competing I would play with my friends and there is the crux of my argument. I respectfully disagree with the argument that playing with and losing to superior competition is better than learning how to compete and win against your peers or the level of competition that you are currently at. There is no shame in losing at any level I know I have done enough of it and it is true that you should learn something each time you lose, but you also learn something when you win and that is how to win and it is an imporatnt skill one which Michelle for all her future greatness does not posses now. I am not jealous of Michelle Wie and the talent she posseses. I am happy with contending in my club championship. I am not jealous of the lucrative contracts she has signed or the money she will earn. I have done very well in life and have no financial complaints or worries. I am simply expressing my opinion, one which seems to be an unpopular one, but it is one which is not malicious or sexist or racist. I wish Michelle Wie the best. I just come from a background were accomplishment merited reward, not promise and talent. It seems Michelle's fans and they are fans in the true sense of the word(fanatic) just assume that she will soon dominate women's golf and even truly compete against men. I just prefer to wait and see before I crown her the chosen one.
2005-12-09 @ 12:26
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zelda said:
Biologically, it is virtually impossible for any female to ever develop the strength and manual and physical dexterity of a male of comparable age an athletic ability. Similarly, women do not have the emotional makeup to develop the aggressiveness, competitive spirit, or "killer instincts" of PGA pros.
****************************

Have you read any of my comments?
I don't think any sane person would argue that men are much physically stronger than women. Add to that faster.
If something reqires mainly physcial strenth, men will be better than it.

With golf, physical strength is an advantage. However it is not a critical enough, to mean that women cannot compete with men.

As regards the instinct to finish the job, Annika has that undenyable will to win. It can be argued that quite a high percentage of men on the pga tour don't have it.
Look at finishes any week on any mens tour and you will see people stumbling and missing easy shots when the pressure is on.

Golf is not boxing. It is not wresting, judo, soccer, tennis, basketball, football, hammer throwing or weight-lifting.

Golf is predominantly a game of skill.
2005-12-09 @ 12:35
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Matt, even though j thinks you are a loser, you do belong to a country club, albeit with those right wing racists Pressel and Krickstein. Now you've really outed yourself as an elitist snob with your admission that you played with Ernie at---horror of horrors---Westchester! Kendra ain't gonna like that! You must be one of those lucky guys who won life's lottery. When you give j the number 12, are you referring to his age or his IQ?
2005-12-09 @ 13:08
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt said:
Tiger Woods and I simply believe that Michelle might have been better served playing and dominating her peers, thats all.
****************************

Please furnish us with a link to the article from where Tiger said that she should play against her peers.
2005-12-09 @ 13:30
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt said:
I respectfully disagree with the argument that playing with and losing to superior competition is better than learning how to compete and win against your peers or the level of competition that you are currently at. There is no shame in losing at any level I know I have done enough of it and it is true that you should learn something each time you lose, but you also learn something when you win and that is how to win and it is an imporatnt skill one which Michelle for all her future greatness does not posses now.
****************************

If Michelle "learns to win" on the amatuer stage, does that mean she then knows how to win at a higher level? No it doesn't.
She would have to learn all over again. Morgan Pressel winning amatuer titles and Morgan Pressel winning lpga events are 2 different things.
By the way, I think Pressel has a great chance of winning on the lpga next season, and being the youngest winner.

2005-12-09 @ 13:36
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
John--Times are tough for anyone who dares question the Wie marketing train as it rolls on carrying the greatest player to have never won anything of note, but when I get called a "loooooser" by a middle-school drop-out then it's time to defend myself. My grandfather came to this country with nothing and worked hard to provide a better life for his children. My father worked equally hard putting himself through law school while working as many as three jobs at a time. I did the same having nothing given to me on my way through life. I didn't get where I am today by simply "qualifying" for law school or finishing 2nd in my class or even just trying to "make the cut" at my law firm. I did it by striving to be the best at each stage of development. Confident, outspoken at times, even arrogant, but that's what it took and that's what it takes in the world of competitive golf. Michelle Wie has taken a different path and all we can do is sit back and see if it works.
2005-12-09 @ 13:44
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Michelle's path has worked pretty well so far.
2005-12-09 @ 13:45
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
http://www.pgatour.com/story/6995547

Norman, midway through the story Tiger is quoted as saying that he belives winning tournaments at the lower levels provide invaluable experience and that Michelle should have done that as he and Phil Mickleson did. Vijay also believes this to be the best way to prepare yourself for success. I know you find it shocking that people disagree with the you and the Wie machines way of doing things, but there is room for differing opinions about how to achieve success. My ideas are backed by the best golfers in the world, your's are backed by teenage boys and girls, a crazy stage father and a 16 year-old girl.
2005-12-09 @ 13:56
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Are you talking about her path to endorement riches and fame or are you talking about her career win total--because one path has been extremely succsesful, the other is still a work in progress.
2005-12-09 @ 13:59
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George, I don't believe there is any racism involved in any of this. I haven't even bothered to mention it so far, because I think it is just ridiculous talk.

There are many reasons some people don't like Wie, and there are many other reasons some people like her but disagree with her chosen path. Racism doesn't come into it.
2005-12-09 @ 15:57
Comment from: george [Visitor]
** Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Michelle's path has worked pretty well so far. **

Norman, I applaud you for agreeing with me.

Wie's path has worked well. She is fabulously wealthy and that's great.

Wie's path, though, has been meticulously constructed to avoid the unpleasant mine fields of -- for the most part -- competing against her peers.

My take: Wie ducked Morgan Pressel this summer at the Amateur Open because Wie didn't want to take the chance of losing to somebody or a group of somebodies that conventional wisdom would favor Wie to beat. B.J. Wie did have a good cover story, though.

One can't fault Wie to take a fun road trip to a French resort and a storied links course in the U.K. instead of the plebian grind of a course in Georgia.
Especially since there were no expectations for Wie in France and the U.K., whereas there would have been in the plebian grind in Georgia.

And Norman, I am pleased to see you have joined me in congratulating Paula Creamer as a winner of a LPGA Major tournament, Evian.

Paula BESTED a prestigious field in that one, Norman.

One wonders, how did that bit of praise for Paula Creamer slip through your keyboard? The doctors won't be happy if you missed your Wie Kool Aid medication today?

-George
2005-12-09 @ 16:02
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt, I accept your sources in that link, they are all genuine.

That story was taken before Michelle's first pga event. Maybe some players have changed their minds, maybe others haven't.

The issue now is not whether she should do amatuer or pro, because amatuer is now gone.

The issue is pga events or just lpga events.
There are good arguments on both sides.

On one hand, she shouldn't compete on the pga because she cannot win, so what is the point in playing there.

I disagree with this, because for everyone who has made it, they had absolutely no chance of winning either at the start.
I accept that there is one major difference with Wie. In Tiger's case a win was possible sonner. For Wie it is years away, if at all.

However, I think the experience is invaluable and she should grab it (and the money) with both hands.
2005-12-09 @ 16:03
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George said:
My take: Wie ducked Morgan Pressel this summer at the Amateur Open because Wie didn't want to take the chance of losing to somebody or a group of somebodies that conventional wisdom would favor Wie to beat. B.J. Wie did have a good cover story, though.
****************************

George, why do you say the same things when you were already proven wrong.

For Wie to enter an amatuer tournament instead of a womens major would be absolutely ridiculous.

As regards Paula Creamer I have praised her on many occasions. She is a very fine player.
I have also stated that she has performed better than Wie in the 2nd half of this season, even if not the whole season.

I have also made the prediction that Paula will perform better than Michelle in the tournaments that they play together next season.
2005-12-09 @ 16:10
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Lisa:
* yet you turn around and stereotype "typical Wie Warriors" as dumb. *

*****
Comment from: j [Visitor]
Matt, u r such a loooooooser!!!

Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
Its Chris Baldwin and George that are the douche bags!

Comment from: Lisa [Visitor]
Chris Baldwin is a LOSER !

Comment from: j [Visitor]
alan, I agree!!!

Comment from: Ken [Visitor]
Not to get political , but you know that the Pressel family in Florida especially "Gramps" are very active right wing ultra Conservatives right.
Let's just say they don't have the best record concerning racial issues here

Comment from: Jon [Visitor]
Matt got owned!

Comment from: Bozza [Visitor]
Please stop these futile anti-Wie comments. Your facts are wrong and, therefore, your argument is completely pointless.

(Bozza, BTW, offered no refutation to Baldwin. I guess we're just supposed to take Bozza's word for it!)

Comment from: Kendra [Visitor]
Yes George--I think most conservatives are racist .

And of course, things wouldn't be complete with yet more empty-headedness from June, who finally has some serious rivals among the Wie Warrior "Mensas"

Comment from: June [Visitor]
Sheryl, Baldwin doesn't have a life outside bashing Michelle. That is a plain and simple fact.
(including that because the only thing the comment proves is June has learned how to use the Windows-Macintosh cut and paste functions)

*****

Jim Coulthard! Where are you? You're going to have to step up! As these comments prove, you have a lot more competition than you had this summer! You are not allowed to rest easy on your Wie Warrior Mensa laurels!



So Lisa, tell me WHY I'm supposed to think the Wie Warriors aren't dumb?

-George
2005-12-09 @ 16:19
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Norman:

** For Wie to enter an amatuer tournament instead of a womens major would be absolutely ridiculous. **

A bit of a weak effort, even for you, Norman.

I already stipulated there's no proof. I stated B.J. crafted an excellent cover story. Of course, the majors, including the Major won by Paula Creamer, are prestigious, and it is entirely reasonable for Wie to skip the amateur event for the majors.

There is NO WAY TO PROVE that Michelle ducked competing against Morgan.

IT IS A FACT, HOWEVER, that a loss in the Women's Amateur, especially to the eventual champ, Pressel, would have greatly dimmed the Wie mystique.

And that would have happened a mere two months before Wie went pro.

So I wasn't proved wrong, Norman, certainly not by you.

Ducking Morgan Pressel, however DOES fit the pattern of creating and preserving mystique around Michelle Wie. Wie was not expected to win the major that Creamer won nor the major that Jang won. Wie WOULD have been expected to win the Women's Amateur.

Therefore, the script carefully fashioned by B.J. Wie served to preserve the mystique and help ensure Michelle landed the $20 million payday.

That is absolutely fine and should be applauded. There is no problem with that. One simply has to recognize WHY Mr. Wie chose those events for his daughter. And the script included avoiding any face-off against Morgan Pressel.

-George
2005-12-09 @ 16:33
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George,
Before Michelle Wie played the British Open she had played 6 lpga events that year.
Her results were:
2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 12th, 14th, 23rd.

With 3 2nd places in just 6 events, it would be reasonable for her to assume, that she might be competitive at the British Open.

As it turned out, she was very competitive and finished 3rd at the British Open.

If Morgan Pressel had been offered the opportunity to play at the British Open, she would have been there too. Do you deny that?
2005-12-09 @ 17:15
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
George,

I've never seen such a twisted argument. You admit that it made sense to Wie to play the British Open rather than the amatuer. Yet, you still argue that she did it to duck playing Pressel because there is no proof that she didn't want to duck playing Pressel. Such a thing isn't provable. You are clearly grasping at straws.
2005-12-09 @ 17:21
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Matt. I listed Wie's qualifying records because you said wie was handed everything and earn nothing.
Now AJGA grandslam and winning women's Amateur is nice achievement but we are talking about achievement which deserves "hype". Morgan was 2nd player to achieve AJGA grandslam. First player was kelly Booth. Kelly Booth couldn't even made it to final stage of Q school this year and probably wiil never make it to LPGA. That shows AJGA grandslam doesn't mean much when it comes to future success.
Same thing goes to Winning women's amateur. Vicki Goetche won 2 women's amateur. She won First title at age 16 and won second by beating none other than Annika at final. At that time people thought Goetche, not Annika was future big thing. Goetche is still looking for her first win.
Pressel earned hype by becoming youngest player to qualify for women's open and by finishing 2nd in women's open. Neither has anything to do with "winning". If you really believe pressel earned hype by winning amateur tournaments, you are misguided.
2005-12-09 @ 19:16
Comment from: Ann [Visitor]
george,

I see where you're coming from, maybe Wie did try to avoid facing Pressel (minding the fact that, as i recall, with the exception of the 2005 US Open, she has placed higher than Pressel in other pro events), but then again maybe she didn't. In all seriousness, if you or anyone (including morgan pressel) were given a chance to play in france and britain against the best players in the world all the while enjoying the areas,you would be completely out of your mind to reject that and play in georgia.

It's just common sense.
2005-12-09 @ 19:45
Comment from: Jack [Visitor]
George--

Michelle Wie decides to play against professional women, and professional men and she's a coward??

Call me crazy but I respect anyone who plays UP to the competion and not down.
Since when is playing against tougher competition ducking competition. That is twisted thinking...

Half the people Pressel beat at Q-school are probably working part time at Bennigans right now...

Hmmm-what's more impressive finishing ahead of Annika Sorenstam twice, (as Michelle did twice this summer) or finishing ahead of some random girl that probably just got her braces...
2005-12-09 @ 20:58
Comment from: Cherie [Visitor]

Why is the argument concerning mental toughness alwasys skewed against Michelle Wie ?

It can be argued that all this adversity and close calls is actually good for Michelle because it will end up toughening her up in the long run.

It can also be argued that because Morgan Pressel had such an easy time winning in the junior and amateur ranks that she doesn't know how to deal with tougher competition and will struggle once she experiences some adversity on the golf course.
Its possible that things came so easy for her in the beginning that when the going gets tough she doesn't know how to take it.

After all it was Morgan Pressel and not Michelle Wie who broke down crying uncontrollably after the first round of the US Women's Open when she played the last few holes badly.
I can understand the crying after the tournament since she was so close to winning but the first round ??
That's not a sign of a mentally tough person to me.
2005-12-09 @ 21:21
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Jack. Did you see names who finished ahead Morgan at Q school? You know Ai Miyazato destroyed field and Morgan. But look at these names who finished ahead Morgan at Q school. Libby Smith, Lee Ann Walker-Cooper, Brooke Tull, Katie Futcher. Maybe Even players who beat Pressel at Q school are working part time at bannigans.
2005-12-09 @ 23:49
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Matt. there is reason why wie supporters feel Anti wie camp have hiden agenda. They rip wie based on false facts. At least you were honest enough to reveal you are close to Pressel family. But a lot of your claims are based on false facts or perception.

I already showed Wie earned hype by setting a lot of qualifying records. Also it might surprise you that wie got into LPGA tourney by monday qualfier twice while both pressel and Creamer( in other words, players who supposedly earned everything) never attempted monday qualifier.

you said Wies disrespected junior competition. Absolute false. I followed wie since she was 12 and none of wie family made comments disrespectful to fellow competitors or AJGA. Matter of Fact, BJ wie even said there is no guarantee michelle would win AJGA tourney because girls are so good. In reality, AJGA field is pretty weak. I think Morgan won betsy rawls championship, one of AJGA major. Runner up of that tournament was Esther choe and She finished something like 15 or 16 strokes behind wie after 2nd round of women's open. Wies could show how weak AJGA field and explain why They don't need to play in ajga but they didn't choose that way because they didn't want to be disrespectful to fellow junior competitors.
I can guarantee you won't find single comment from wies who showed disrepct to fellow competitor or junior competition.
2005-12-10 @ 00:10
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
When Michelle competes in and qualifies for the LPGA Tour through the grueling Q-School process you can comment on Pressels performance. Right now, however it is just another thing that Morgan has accomplished and Wie has not(yet). Jay--as for those women you suggested work as waitreses they are actually quite accomplished. Katie Fulcher is a two-time NCAA all american, Brooke Tull was also an All-American and member of the futures tour, Lee Ann Walker-Cooper and Libby Smith were both already LPGA touring pros when they achived their exempt status and in an ironic note Libby Smith is the only women in history to play for a men's division I college golf team(University of Vermont and she was Captain to boot). Not bad for a bennigan's staff.
2005-12-10 @ 00:13
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
If pressel simply stated her goal is earning card and winning isn't her priority, then Pressel's finish position wouldn't have mattered much because finishing first or finishing 6th produced same result. But because pressel declaired her goal is winning, not just earning card, now people can jump on pressel's performance because she finshed way way behind leader and finished behind no name( in relative terms) players.
2005-12-10 @ 00:35
Comment from: RRR [Visitor]
The proof is in the result. Miss Wie finished ahead of Miss Creamer more times in 2005 when they played in the same event.

Miss Wie finished ahead of many seasoned male professional golfers in the Men's Events she entered.

Why would anyone consider playing in an amature event when you can play in the Women's British Open? A note here; Miss Wie finished ahead of some of the finest women professional golfers in the world

I'm not a Michelle groupie, yet I can see talent when it is displayed and aprreciate it.




2005-12-10 @ 14:32
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
You tell 'em RRR! What a lot of these Wie haters don't realize is that Michelle only missed the cut at this year's Sony by a measly seven strokes! Why, that's not even half a stroke per hole! If she progresses just like Norman says, driving another 30 yards, improving her long irons and her short game, and doing better with her putting, there is no reason why she can't get back to her stellar game of missing the cut by only one or two shots. I can't wait for the disappointment the Wie doubters will experience when Michelle finally makes a cut in a men's event and gets on the cover of Sports' Illustrated, is named Time's Person of the Year, and is canonized by the Vatican all in one week. Making the cut looks good this year. I hear that she got a sponsor's exemption in the Bessarabian Gypsy Invitational.
2005-12-10 @ 15:04
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zelda, from your last comments, I am having difficulty deciding if you said your age was 7, or was it 5?

It is very easy to distort things to suit your argument.

I never said MW needed to add 30 yards to her game. She needs to add 10-15 yards to be able to compete at the very top. Her putting needs to improve to compete at the top.

At this moment, if she just putted slightly better, she would make a cut easy, that is not alot of improvement needed.
The length is something she could do with to help her game, but she can easily make cuts without adding a single yard to her length.

The whole difficulty here is that you are saying it is impossible for her to compete because she is a woman. The point is, if her putting was better, she would have already made a mens cut with several shots to spare. You don't need strength to putt.

As regards the 7 stroke missed cut, that was in hugely windy conditions. If you know anything about golf (something I seriously doubt), you will know that young players very seldom do well in wind.
As regards getting back to just missing by a stroke or two, she did that at the John Deere Classic a few months after the Sony. Perhaps you were having a nap then.
2005-12-10 @ 16:07
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, maybe Ken can explain how Herb Krickstein got his right-wing wind machine on to the course at the Sony. I tell ya, these Wie haters will stop at nothing!
2005-12-10 @ 16:42
Comment from: James COULTHARD [Visitor]
In this year's Sony there were very windy conditions for Michelle Wie which were worse than those faced by some of the other players.

Herb Krickstein's politics and religion have nothing to do with this--but I have a suspicion that the biggest problem with Morgan Pressel might well be Herb Krickstein.

There is a very simple answer to Herb Krickstein's campaign. If he thinks Morgan Pressel should be treated as an adult now, then he should shut up and let her speak for herself.
2005-12-10 @ 19:00
Comment from: Crazy Frog [Visitor]
I think Michelle Wie is a a good golfer and admit it whoever is against her is a looser.
2005-12-10 @ 19:47
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
If people are questioning how well Wie has done in her attempts at qualifying for the pga I would suggest they compare her results against Tigers.
Bearing in mind she was 13-15 years old and Tiger was 18-20. It makes very interesting reading.
I do feel however that the Wie bashers are not really interested in actual facts.
Alan M
2005-12-10 @ 20:54
Comment from: vernon w [Visitor]
Matt,

Sorry I took so long to reply to your reply to my challenge about disparaging remarks by the Wies. I don't hang out on Baldwin's site to get my jollies knocking teenage girls.
If you were listening to the interviews by the Wies, they said, since they have to pay for the trips from Hawaii, and time away from home and school is difficult, they try to get the most experience and value from their trips as they can since they cannot attend every one that comes up. If you were offered an exemption to play in the Kraft Nabisco tournament or an amateur junior tournament, which would you pick, especially if the KN also included expenses? How many junior amateurs pay expenses? She has never said she would dominate and that their talent level is not worth mentioning. Again I challenge you to refer me to an interview or quote to that effect.

I have seen/heard Wie on television being interviewed by 60 Minutes twice, interviewed during every tournament she plays in, including the Kraft Nabisco Shootout with Daly, Lopez and Keuhne, before the 2005 Mercedes, and not once, did her father or mother speak on camera. She always speaks for herself and has never criticised another player. The only exception, as I mentioned, was the runin they had with the Ammaccapanis in Oregon. The only time her parents comments are recorded are during extensive interviews for SI and Golf Digest magazines. I am sure I am not the only person from Hawaii who has followed this "local girl" with great interest over the past 5 years.
I am still waiting for you to show me where Wie has criticized another player. You do not know what you are talking about.
2005-12-11 @ 02:02
Comment from: WCC-Stew [Visitor]
1. I agree with all those Wie Warriors who said that Baldwin's blog mentions Wie because that's the only way anyone reads and comments on his blog. I don't blame him. We all need to earn a living.

2. From my observation Mr. Krickstein and Mr. Wie are overbearing adults who run the risk of burning out their kid or grandkid if they don't take a step back.

3. Michelle has all the hype and invitations to play the men's tour because she has the game that very few women have....she hits the ball long enough and with enough spin to not look foolish on the men's tour.
Only Annika has that kind of game. If Pressel had this type game, I'm sure some PGA tourney in the east would give her a chance also. For all those anti-Wie. Yes, you can say she is ALL HYPE because she has not won on tour or made a men's tour cut. Although I think her results are impressive.

4. Why does Wie get the HYPE and not Pressel? Pressel is a young girl who hits a golf ball like a very good female pro golfer. Wie is a young girl who hits a golf ball like a very good male golfer. That's the hype. That's the $10 million difference. (Yeah and Michelle is cuter....)
2005-12-11 @ 03:01
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Words of wisdom from James COULTHARD:"In this year's Sony there were very windy conditons for Michelle Wie which were worse than those faced by some other players." That was the exact purpose of the Pressel-Krickstein wind machine. The machine is quite expensive to operate, and besides, Michelle was the only golfer that these two rabid, conservative, extremist racists wanted to hurt. Now that JC and Norman are aware of the machine, Pres and Krick will have to start working on another apparatus.
2005-12-11 @ 10:00
Comment from: Jason [Visitor]
travelgolf.com should be ahamed.
Everyone knows what im talking about.
2005-12-11 @ 10:36
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella said:
Words of wisdom from James COULTHARD:"In this year's Sony there were very windy conditons for Michelle Wie which were worse than those faced by some other players."
****************************

John, what James said was that Michelle played at a part of the day which had the worst weather conditions. That is a fact.
However the main reason she didn't do well is experience. If you watch golf tournaments in windy conditions, you will notice that very often players around 40 years or older who haven't won tournaments in years start to appear near the top of the leaderboard.
This is a fact, and shows how wind is a particular disadvantage for a young player in their 20's, not to mind 15 years old.

John, it is also encouraging to find that in this blog, once again, you have resorted to insulting people and making stupid statements and twisting what people say.
It shows that you have given up trying to make any argument to support you views, because there simply isn't an argument.
You should try to put up some kind of argument to support your views or take defeat gracefully.
2005-12-11 @ 10:56
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, the reason I've taken a lighter tack is that common sense as regards the physiological differences between men and girls are anathema to the Wie Warriors. I find it amusing that you believe that of all the three billion+ females on this planet, and of all the millions of girls and women that play golf, Michelle Wie is the ONLY one with the game to "mix it up with the men". Here's a clue, Norman, even MW can't do it! I'll say this for you Wie Warriors, you never heard an excuse you didn't like when it comes to your teenage idol. Pretty soon you guys will have more excuses than Bruno Hauptmann. What excuse does MW have for getting smoked 5 and 4 in the Public Links event by a rank amateur? And "smoked " is the word; she was 5 down after nine. I'm sure you'll think of something. As for accepting defeat graciously, your goddess MW should be learning to accept defeat by now, although probably not graciously. Norman, I still think you are a Brit by birth or transplant. No one but a Brit calls ten-pin bowling "bowls" or refers to denigration of something as "rubbishing" it.
2005-12-11 @ 11:39
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, I assure you I am not a Brit.

I'm glad you have at least tried to come up with some arguments. That is good even if you are very wrong.

I'm glad you brought up the mens amatuer publinx. Here is a summary.
* Michelle Wie was the first female to ever QUALIFY for a mens usga event. She did this by finished tied FIRST in a sectional tournament.
* At the tournament itself, 156 players qaulified. Michelle Wie MADE THE CUT, which was 64 players. That surprised me and all people with golfing knowledge.
* Round 1, Michelle wins a tight match. TIGHT, PRESSURE MATCH. Having been behind most of the match, she wins the last hole to win 1 up. She played brilliantly under pressure, going 3 UNDER IN THE LAST 5 HOLES, to tear the match from her opponents grasp.
* Round 2, Michelle birdies 3 of the first 4 holes to immediately put her opponent under pressure and wins the match 6&5. Impressive!
* Round 3, a tighter match but Michelle once again, birdies 3 of the last 5 holes to win 3&1.
* Quarter Final, Michelle plays Clay Ogden, he birdies 4 of the first 5 holes to build up a lead that he would not let slip.
* Having beat Michelle, Clay goes on to win the semi and final and thus get his Masters invite.

Now if that Michelle Wie performance doesn't sound impressive to you, then there really is little hope for you.
2005-12-11 @ 13:26
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, the impressive performance belongs to Clay Ogden, not also-ran MW. Don't you think there is something disingenuous about a a child of privilege, a member of a private club, even entering a PUBLIC LINKS event? If you Wie Warriors are going to get all orgasmic when your darling finishes out of the money in an event as non-descript as the Public Links, what will you be like when Michelle Wie actually...Gasp...WINS SOMETHING?
2005-12-11 @ 20:49
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
More about publinx. wie was 2nd youngest player among 156 players who qualified and YOUNGEST player among players who made match play. Interestingly enough Luke List, runner up of last year's US amateur and player who made cut at masters, didn't even make match play at publinx.
Let's assume 15 year old boy made match play as youngest player among players who made match play and made it to quarter final.
How many people would insist this 15 year old boy have no future at pga?
2005-12-11 @ 20:55
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Jay, You've convinced me! I just experienced a miraculous epiphany! Michelle made the quarter-finals at the Public Links event! Of course, she got smoked in her match because, as Norman pointed out, her opponent made too many birdies and MW couldn't recover. After her outstanding performance in such a star-studded field as presented at the Amateur Public Links, it is an outrage that she hasn't been nominated to the Hall of Fame.
2005-12-11 @ 21:35
Comment from: Jim Coulthard [Visitor]
Let us give Morgan Pressel a chance to grow up, and maybe get away from her doting grandfather. She could turn out fine.
2005-12-11 @ 22:35
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Vernon chill out bra! Hawaii is beautiful this time of year you should be relaxing by the beach with a frozen drink in your hand. Your undying and irrational love of all things Michelle is clear now. She is a "local" girl and one with whom you should be extremely proud of. I searched the internet for examples of disparaging remarks made by Wie or her father and found none--When I am wrong I say so and she as I mentioned in an earlier post has handled herself very well in the face of all the scrutiny and pressure. this however does not change my assertion that she has been overly hyped and marketed in a way which allows her to keep her aura without actually winning anything and that she has potentially made a mistake in not learning how to win by beating her peers first. I respect Michelle for taking on the toughest competition, but also am not blind enough to think that she is actually competing on the PGA tour(competing is to win, playing is what she is doing). I just personally like the route that Creamer and Pressel have taken and in Creamers case it is already paying huge divedends.
2005-12-11 @ 23:56
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Matt. One thing people tend to ignore is creamer actually didn't win any prestigious amateur tournaments to be considered as proof of "learn how to win theory". She never won USGA title( she lost 4 consecuctive semi final match and that's not exactly stuff of player who supposedly knows how to win) and didn't win bunch of AJGA major either. Actually creamer's amateur resume fell well short of current lpga players like Dorothy Delashin,Grace park,Vicki Goetche,Jill Mcgill and even Aree song.
But Creamer played in 10 lpga tournaments, 8 of them by exemption, during 2 years before she turned pro. No amateur played in that many pro tourneys with exception of wie during 2 year period.
So argument can be made those pro tourney experiences actually helped creamer more.
Also we will have to wait whether creamer can keep on going. Delashin won both girl's junior and women's amateur and also won her first lpga tourney at 19. She became solid pro but she never became big thing as expected from her resume.
2005-12-12 @ 03:07
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Paula Creamer was the 2003 AJGA player of the year and the 2004 Amateur golfer of the year she won 11 AJGA tournaments and 19 National titles, not exactly a poor record. Jay we could go back and forth all day citing examples which would prove our points. One thing is clear and that is that Creamer's junior and amateur career has helped propel her to be the player she is today one who knows how to finish out a tournament. Her experience in the Curtis and Solheim Cups has made her a tough match play player as well, look at the Lexus Cup this past weekend where she went undefeated. Creamer's resume and early career results speak for themselves. Michelle's resume and current career path is a little harder to quantify at this point. She has some great results, but has not achieved the ultimate result. As I have said numerous times Michelle Wie will probably be great player maybe even one of the best who ever lived, but she is not there yet and if she fails to live up to her advanced billing then I would put the blame on her choice of career path.
2005-12-12 @ 08:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella said:
If you Wie Warriors are going to get all orgasmic when your darling finishes out of the money in an event as non-descript as the Public Links
****************************
Out of the money?
There is no prize money in amatuer events.
2005-12-12 @ 09:28
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt, there is a big point that you and many people are missing when you are saying MW didn't learn to win by playing amatuer events.

The fact is nobody knows.

Creamer won on the lpg having had years more experience on the amatuers etc.
When Michelle turns 18, if she hasn't won at that stage, then you will be able to say that maybe Michelle lost out by not playing the amatuers and learning to win.

However if Michelle wins before 18 years old, then it will be obvious that, if anything, the lack of amatuer play, substituted by top level play helped her if anything.
2005-12-12 @ 09:40
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Somebody was wondering what comments exactly Morgan Pressel made about Michelle, I have found a quote and here it is:

'Are the press and players just trying to be politically correct?' Morgan Pressel told Sports Illustrated while complaining about the hype surrounding Wie. 'I don't believe in being politically correct. Michelle hasn't played a lot of junior golf, so she hasn't learned how to finish tournaments.'

(note: she has said much worse)
2005-12-12 @ 09:43
Comment from: Cherie [Visitor]
You're right Norman-- Pressel has said much worse things about Michelle... I need to look up my old Golf Digest issues....


2005-12-12 @ 09:49
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Matt, Thanks for coming back. As a team, we should be able to humble the Wie Warriors. While it's true that Paula has won two LPGA tournaments, several amateur events, and led the LPGA "Q" school by a wide margin while Michelle has won exactly nothing, MW has an insurmountable lead in one category. And that is the number and variety of excuses her sycophants can concoct for her numerous failures. First, there is always the old reliable "she is only 16 years old".(Before that it was 14 or 15 tears old). Then at the 2004 Sony, she thought she had made the cut, therefore she didn't think it necessary to birdie the last hole, otherwise she would have birdied. At this year's Sony, being young and frail, she was unable to cope with the wind, which singled her out for torment and didn't affect the play of the other golfers. At the Casio in Japan, a covert conspiracy of male chauvinists caused a 20 minute delay on the final hole, resulting in yet another crucial bogey and, yes, another missed cut. But the best excuse given by the Wie Warriors to date, at least in my opinion, is that recently offered by Norman. Michelle was cruising along to what should have been ultimate victory in this year's PUblic Links event, when some upstart by the name of Clay Ogden barely edged her out. The score was 5 and 4. But what is really bothersome is the method that Clay used to engineer this monumental upset. According to Norman, Clay had the audacity to birdie four of the first five holes, and MW just couldn't recover. What gall! It is obvious that Mr.Ogden has no respect for the crown that has been placed on the head of Michelle Wie.
2005-12-12 @ 09:53
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Michelle Wie has not played a lot of junior golf: Fact. Michelle has not learned how to finish tournaments: Fact. Norman even you will admit that these comments aside from being true are pretty benign. Pressel has been very outspoken about Wie, and as we have discussed in earlier posts part of her frustration is I'm sure born out of jealousy; jealousy not of her game, but of the contracts, coverage and overall Michelle can do no wrong attitude of her followers and the majority of the media. I remember Pressel commenting about Michelle's faltering down the stretch at the Women's U.S. Open(final round 82) and her failure to make the cut at the John Deere when she looked like she had had it wrapped up. Both times her comments were fair assesments of the situations and Michelle's play. As I have said before Pressel should probably keep her mouth shut and just play golf, but her comments are not as heinous as you all would lead us to believe and they have to this point been on the money.
2005-12-12 @ 11:01
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
You are right about one thing Norman--we are all jumping the gun on the current and future status of Michelle Wie's career. Wie warriors think she has done more than she has, while Wie realists think she has done less. Her backers believe her to be destined to become the greatest female golfer to live, while people like John and I want her to earn that honor starting with wins now. Many beleive that by challenging the men she is a winner and trailblazer no matter what the result, I beleive while impressive the novelty is in the long run not helpful to her development. We just see things differently . The funny thing is that time will probably never tell who is right and who is wrong. 20 years from now Norman and I will be arguing whether or not Michelle's 5 grand slam titles constitutes a succsesful career.
2005-12-12 @ 11:13
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, Man, you really don't know anything about American sports parlance! The expression "out of the money" refers to thoroughbred and standardbred horse racing. In parimutuel betting on the sport, in addition to exotic wagers like exactas, quinellas, trifectas, daily doubles and pick-6's, the standard bets are win, place(2nd), and show(3rd). These are the only straight bets on horses that pay off. Thus, if a horse doesn't finish in the top three, it is "out of the money". The rest of the field of horses are termed "also-rans", and are not listed in any specific order, just as in a full-field PGA event those players who do not finish in the top 70 and ties after two rounds receive the designation of "CUT" without regard to their distance behind the last qualified golfer. Since Michelle Wie was unceremoniously trounced in her quarterfinal match in the Publinx, the terms "out of the money" and "also-ran' are appropriate. I hope that this rather brief tutorial on parimutuel horse race wagering has been enlightening for all concerned. Stay tuned, I have planned some lectures on golf and the inherent and immutable physiological differences between men and girls.
2005-12-12 @ 11:25
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Matt
You stated that.
"Never forget though that Morgan has earned every bit of her hype, the same can not be said of Wie".
Can you explain this please?

When Wie plays she attracts huge crowds because people want to watch her.
TV channels change their schedules so she can be seen on tv because the TV rating are so high when she plays.
When she went to Japan it was reported that the local economy would benefit by some $10m dollars because Wie was playing.
It is the pulic that demands to see Wie Hype doesn't come into it.

Alan M
2005-12-12 @ 11:44
Comment from: Paul F [Visitor]
John, I believe you have the wrong facts on Wie's finish at the 2004 Sony Open. Here is what really happened.

Els spent the afternoon in his hotel room watching Wie, with whom he played a practice round Tuesday.

Steve Allan had an eagle and six birdies on Friday. (AP)
Craig Bowden shot 64 playing with Wie, a round only his wife will remember.

Wie returns to the ninth grade at nearby Punahou School, but she left quite an impression -- not only with her 68, but the strong finishing kick.

Despite a good chip to save par on No. 15, Wie knew she had to play the final three holes in 3 under to make the cut.

She didn't go down without a fight.

With the sun setting over Diamond Head, Wie belted her longest drive of the week, 311 yards down the middle. Her approach stopped 15 feet beyond the cup, and she holed it for her sixth birdie of the week.

She pulled her tee shot on the 189-yard 17th, the ball bouncing off the grandstand into the rough about 100 feet from the flag. Fighting to the end, she pitched to 4 feet and saved par for the eighth time in the round.

Wie needed an eagle on the final hole to make the cut, and she gave herself a chance with another big drive, leaving herself 252 yards to the hole.

She hit 3-wood a little too much in the air and it landed softly in front of the green, rolling into the first cut of rough. With a packed grandstand quietly watching, her chip for eagle headed to the hole and turned away, running about 4 feet by to end her hopes of making the cut.

Wie finished in style with her seventh birdie of the week.

Nearly 5,000 people -- a larger crowd than the Sony Open usually gets for the final pairing Sunday -- followed her around Waialae, and TOUR players stopped on the range to watch when she came up the ninth hole.

"I played with her on Tuesday, and she wasn't feeling well and wasn't playing well," Paul Azinger said as Wie played the back nine. "I thought she'd get waxed out here, but she's proving me wrong. I'd like to see her make a few birdies and make the cut."

It is truly amazing how everyone is making up stories about Michelle, Morgan and Paula on both sides of the argument. These players all deserve praise. For me, I am sitting back enjoying what I am seeing from all three. Each will bring something new, exciting and refreshing to a tour that needs the HYPE.

2005-12-12 @ 13:03
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Paul F, Did you write those words of praise for Michelle, or did you copy them verbatim from a news article? Be careful of copywright laws. At the 2005 Sony MW was, of course, a year older and a year more mature. Why don't you quote some source on how impressive Michelle was in 2005 at the Sony? How about her predictable failures at the John Deere, the Casio, and, last but not least, her thrashing at the hands of Clay Ogden at the Publinks?
2005-12-12 @ 13:27
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, you seem to be trying to form an aliance with Matt. At least Matt makes factual statements and just interprets some of them differently to me.
With you, it is just a long stream of drivel and unsubstantiated rubbish.

* The first statement you got incorrect was saying that "Wie would have got a birdie on the last at Sony 04 if she needed it". The fact of the matter is that Wie did get a birdie on the last. The other fact is that she said in the interview that when she sunk the putt, she believed she had made the cut. This proved that she had the mental side to make the cut, because she was able to sink the putt, believing it to be the crucial one to make the cut.

* As regards the years Sony, if you don't understand about wind in golf and the value of experience in wind, then that is your problem.

* As regards the Casio, the 20 minute delay was unfortunate, but nobody said she missed the cut, just because of that. In my opinion she did well, considering she was after several weeks of being in school, and everyone else in that tournament was playing week in and week out on those same Japanese courses, which are different from courses anywhere else.

* As regards the Publinx, if you don't think Michelle had a great performance there, then I would recommend some sort of a brain scan, because you seriously have problems. Clay's birdies at the start put Michelle under pressure, as it would have done to any opponent. The fact is in matchplay, that if a player hits a purple patch, it is very difficult to beat them. On a single days match play the world 100, could beat the world number 10 very easily. That makes Michelle's achievement all the more clear.

As regards the horse-racing thing, that is an even worse analogy than your track and field analogy. Golf is golf. If you want the language to be the same as horse racing, and you are saying the first 3 places are "in the money", then you really are heaping praise on Michelle because she had 4 top 3 places this season.

Next you referred to the players who don't make the cut after two days as "also rans". Then you said Michelle was an "also ran" at the Publinx.
But, Michelle did make the cut at the Publinx, so you are contradicting yourself. I guess when you can't even agree with yourself, your problems are big.
2005-12-12 @ 13:54
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt, I agree with most of what you said.
What kind of thing did Pressel say after the John Deere?
2005-12-12 @ 14:00
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Here is a very good article, I would advice John Zelda and others who want females to stop playing agains the men to read it.

http://badgerherald.com/sports/2005/08/08/shes_only_15_but_s.php
2005-12-12 @ 14:08
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, Matt and I have got this "good cop, bad cop" thing going and it seems to be working. I'm sorry that you fail to comprehend the connotation rather than the denotation of "out of the money". Perhaps you need to be familiarized with the concepts of "hyperbole" or "picturesque exaggeration". I'd be careful if I were you. Dispensing clinical psychological advice without a license is probably unlawful.
2005-12-12 @ 14:13
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Here is some more Morgan Pressel quotes:

"Michelle hasn't played a lot of junior golf, so she hasn't learned how to finish tournaments," Pressel told SI. "She's obviously more interested in making cuts. But if you keep playing against players you can't beat, how are you going to learn to win?"

"I was shocked that there wasn't more talk of Michelle Wie's final round 82 [at the U.S. Women's Open]. I mean, why is that? Or about how when it looked like she was going to make the cut at the John Deere Classic, she played the last four holes in three over par."

"Are the press and other players just trying to be politically correct? I don't believe in being politically correct. Michelle hasn't played a lot of junior golf, so she hasn't learned how to finish tournaments."
2005-12-12 @ 14:19
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, I don't believe that girls or women should quit playing golf either recreationally or competitively. I do believe that they shouldn't try playing against men, especially those on the PGA tour. It would seem that virtually all women think this is the way to go. All with the exception of MW. The fact is, ALL women, even the best female golfers in the world, are hopelessly out-classed by the pros on the PGA tour. As far as your not getting the "out of the money" comment, perhaos this will elucidate: My old friend, Henry Cox, a Brummie and a Briton like yourself, had an expression to describe any tough situation. He called such a quandary a "sticky wicket". Never once was anything sticky or connected with a game of cricket when he used his signature expression.
2005-12-12 @ 15:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, what is it about women playing on the pga tour that you fear so much?

Could it be that you are afraid that your beliefs might be proved wrong?

If you believe that women can not compete with men, then why are you so afraid for your theory to be tested?
It seems to me that you want women out, so that there is no chance for you to be proved wrong.

By the way, what would it take for you to actually change your mind? Would it be a pga cut? or finishing ahead of Tiger Woods? or a high finish on the pga tour? What?

PS.: I am absolutely positive that I am not British. If I was British I would hope that I wouldn't be so ashamed of it as to deny it.
2005-12-12 @ 17:29
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Nornam, My greatest concern about a teeny bopper like Michelle receiving numerous, unearned sponsor's exemptions to events on the PGA tour is that she will actually make a cut. Before you detonate with glee over this assessment, I'll give my reason. If that unprecedented plateau would be attained by MW or any female, she would then be subjected to the much tougher competitioh of the final two rounds along with the diabolical pin placements on the weekend. The frustation and humiliation would be quite enervating for a 16-year-old girl and might lead to a prolonged period of melancholia. And the devastation wrought on her band of Wie Warriors would be irreparable. MW would have a better chance to leap from a 50-story and flap her arms and attempt fly than to keep tilting at windmills on freebies on thePGA tour.
2005-12-12 @ 18:48
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, when I looked back over the past couple of years, I actually reasoned that it was better she didn't make the cut at the Sony Open in 2004.
Before you leap for joy thinking I am agreeing with you, the reason I say this, is because it would have increased the expectation on her in her next pga events.
Had she made the cut that 1st time, I think she would have been quite lucky as she made some ridiculously long putts.
As it is, her quality of play has come on massively since then but non-Wie fans wouldn't notice, because all they look at is the result.
In my opinion at Sony 04 she was of quality of a player missing the cut by about 5 shots. I think she has improved to a borderline cut player (on pga courses) since then.
What I am saying is if she had made that cut, peoples thought of her golfing ability would have been too high and they would have been expecting her to make every cut, and she would inevitably have missed the next cuts.

Getting back to the point of making the cut. If she makes the cut at the upcoming Sony, she will have earned it, just like all the other players who make the cut. I have little doubt that she would cope very well, even with Sunday pins.
As regards your worry for her "frustation" "humiliation" "melancholia" "devastation", should she make the cut, I find that a bit disingenuous, considering your previous comments, I find it very difficult to believe, that should she fail, that you would feel anything other than satisfaction and joy.
2005-12-12 @ 19:15
Comment from: Jim Coulthard [Visitor]
I think Wie might well make the Sony cut--but it is weaker tournament than most, and it is basically on her home course. She will also put in more effort for a Sony tournament in Hawaii. Let's give her a another year or two before we expect borderline cut in a typical PGA Tournament. I would expect consistent wins on the LPGA to come before consistent cuts made on the PGA.
2005-12-12 @ 21:15
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, Please give me your assessment of the following statement:"As it is, her(MW's) quality of play has come on massively(sic) since then (the 2004 Sony) but non-Wie fans wouldn't notice it because all they look at is the result." Those are your words verbatim, and I must say they are convolution at its finest. One other thing that you Wie Warriors haven't taken into account is the fact that Michelle is that most fickle and mysterious of creatures, a female and a teenager to boot. When she becomes smitten with some swain about her own age, even the irrepressible BJ Wie won't be able to stop Mother Nature. It would come as no surprise if MW has three kids by the time she's 25 and is out of golf altogether. Incidentally, Norman, my surname is "Zedella". My neighbor's wife was named "Zelda". She is no longer with us, but she was a hoot when she was alive.
2005-12-12 @ 23:35
Comment from: j [Visitor]
John Jedella,
Wie won't stop until she wins in the LPGA, PGA and palys in the Master.
You should see a big picture.
Perhaps try to read up on Norman and others comments.
You underestimate Wie and her parents. Comments like yours will make her stronger.
Maybe you are an old native English speaker but...
MUCH TO LEARN YOU HAVE.


2005-12-13 @ 02:08
Comment from: Jim, COULTHARD [Visitor]
Norman.s point is that Wie was quite lucky at the 2004 Sony. Overall she did better in 2005, and her John Deere performance seemed less based on luck--as well as not being her home course.

I do not see the connection between having children and dropping out of golf. There are plenty of mothers on the LPGA.
2005-12-13 @ 10:10
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
j, your previous post has left me practically speechless, but I will reply. Michelle Wie has an excellent chance of winning on the LPGA tour. But according to you, she won't stop until she wins on the PGA tour and competes in the Master's event. She'll be playing until she leaves this earth if those standards must be met. Even the most fanatical Wie Warriors will concede that she has virtually no chance of ever winning on the PGA tour. As for MW ever playing in the Master's, I'd advise you to look up the qualifications and the various criteria set forth by the Board of Augusta National C.C. to receive an invitation. As things now stand, the only way MW or any woman could receive an invitation would be by winning a civil lawsuit in the US Supreme Court or by an Act of Congress. I could never underestimate the greed and overbearing of BJ Wie, but those quirks of personality will do precious little good for his daughter on the links.
2005-12-13 @ 10:12
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella said:
Michelle is that most fickle and mysterious of creatures, a female and a teenager to boot
***************************

I was wondering when you would let your guard completely slip. I knew full well all along what your reasons for Wie-bashing were but it just took a bit of time for you to let the truth out. Basically you think women are not only physically weaker, but also completely stupid. You probably watch too many macho films, where the lead male always has extra work, because his stupid girlfriend, does stupid things that endanger them.

I know you are from an older age group, so maybe things were alot different when you were younger, when a woman's place was in the home.

Things have moved on a little. Michelle Wie is at an age where her head has probably already been turned, but that doesn't mean that she is going to turn her back on golf. There are plenty of successful women tennis players who stay at the top, and don't go off the deep end as soon as they meet a bloke.
2005-12-13 @ 13:04
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella said:
Even the most fanatical Wie Warriors will concede that she has virtually no chance of ever winning on the PGA tour.
***************************

At this point John. At this point she has virtually no chance.
How her game will develop, I do not know. What I can tell you is that she has all the physical strength needed ie. her womanly frame isn't going to stop her. There are many reasons why she may not win a pga event, but being a woman isn't going to stop her.
2005-12-13 @ 13:07
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, the jury has been out on the question of your country of origin. When you referred to the sport of ten-pin bowling as "bowls", many doubts were created. Then your expression of "rubbishing" for denigration further raised eyebrows. You sprinkled more Briticisms throughout your subsequent posts. But today, you have outed yourself. You have used the quintessential British expression. You referred to a young man, a suitor, as a "BLOKE"! The jury has returned and the verdict is in! You are officially a LIMEY! :-)
2005-12-13 @ 15:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I was not referring to 10-pin bowling as bowls.
I was referring to the sport named bowls, as bowls.
Bowls is a very different sport to 10-pin bowling.
In bowls, two players get a set of blue balls and red balls. There is a small yellow ball down the far end. Each player throws one of their alloted balls in succession. They can knock the opponents ball out of the way. Whoever gets the closest ball to the yellow ball gets a point.

That's a simplified version, it's much more complicated, but I won't go into it, unless requested.
2005-12-13 @ 18:45
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Here is a link to a bowls site:

http://www.worldbowlstour.com/

By the way it's not a sport I have played. It is just an example where strength isn't a factor.
2005-12-13 @ 18:50
Comment from: j [Visitor]
John Zedella,
I meant to write she won't be out of golf. You know that her ultimate HOPE is competing in the Master's event someday. I think that she has a chance of winning on the PGA tours if she plays more on the PGA tours. Anyway, it will be nice to read your comment without hateful words in next year. I have to leave for holidays. Take care. Best Wishes to all.
Norman, thanks for your delightful comments. I have enjoyed yours very much.
2005-12-13 @ 21:25
Comment from: ed [Visitor]

Michelle Wie has charisma, the charisma of an MJ, Tiger Woods, maybe even more.

She is a larger than life persona to be - at age 16. She, as a person, fascinates people all around the world.

She is the " Tiger Woods " of golf already; not based on her record, just based on her appearance, her style, her ways.

She has achieved that with the very level of skill that she has displayed, not more and not less. She obviously doesn't need to be playing better to be who she is and to be where she is.

There is no need to compare her, there is nobody to compare her to.

She is the second recent child phenomenon that has risen to that level of popularity next to Tiger Woods.

Why do such things happen ? Come to your own conclusion. But it is her, and not Morgan P, neither Freddy Adu in soccer.

To discuss the mere score and/or title that MW has assembled is missing the point.
2005-12-14 @ 00:56
Comment from: Vernon W [Visitor]
Matt,

Thanks for being man enough to admit when you are wrong. It just "unchills" me when someone says something so false. Some other idiot might actually believe you!!

When you say she is being overhyped and marketed, who do you think is doing that? Since you don't know, let me tell you. She was being hyped by Freddie Couples, Tom Lehman, Ernie Els, Yesper Parnevik, Arnold Palmer, Johnny Miller, Vijay Singh, etc. starting when she was 12 at the Jr/Pro exhibitions at the Sony. BJ has never "hyped" or "marketed" her, except possibly during the private endorsement contract negotiations. Again, I challenge you to show where he has. People call him about her.

Michelle has always determined her own goals; her parents just try to help her to reach them. People who say BJ is pushing her for his own gain are ignorant! Read the articles on her in SI. You may finally learn something about her. You may say BJ Wie is overbearing; others may say he is being protective over their only child, a 13 year old daughter. I guess you would not be protective of your 13 year old daughter if she were exposed to the media coverage Michelle has.

John Zedella keeps saying "Wie Warriors," just like Baldwin. I wonder?? Gotta keep the comments coming!!
2005-12-14 @ 04:44
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Vern, You Wie Warrors can't have it both ways. Michelle Wie has officially been declared a professional. Some would say she has been a "de facto" pro for a few years now. So, since she is a pro, it's time for the endless excuses and rationalizations to stop. Your assessment of Wie's play and her predictable failures are almost Orwellian. She birdies the final hole, sinks two 50-footers, saves par eight times, all at the 2004 Sony, still misses the cut, and Wie's Fleas say she got robbed. She should have eagled the final hole. A year later at the Sony, she misses the cut by seven; to MW fanatics that is absolute proof that her game has improved dramatically. She misses the cut again, this time at the John Deere against a mediocre field, choking on the final holes, and what is the reaction of the Wie crowd? Go Michelle! Now you're on your way! The high point of her season was hit when she was barely edged out at an amateur Public Links event. Sure the score was 5 and 4, but her opponent played way over his head, and besides, he should have shown more respect for the new Crown Princess and not shot so many birdies. Still, to dedicated Wie Warriors such as Norman, that tournament was to MW a spectacular success. To finish off this banner season, she again missed a cut, this time failing to finish in the top 60 of a 98 player field, a field that did not include one player ranked in the top 250. She did get a ride in a private jet, though, and she did have "a lot of fun". Oh, I know, she was distraught and tearful when she apologized to the fans in Japan for her poor showing, bit BJ had locked up the "appearance money" by that time. Sound silly? Then come on, you Wie Warriors, stop the excuses! Michelle is a pro! If she doesn't play as much as she should, if she is only sixteen, if she doesn't know how to play in the wind, she is still a PRO, and those things are EXCUSES. And real pros don't offer excuses. Real pros offer results.
2005-12-14 @ 08:52
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
John
I don't think Michelle is offering any excuses.
She accepts that each time she plays is a learning experience. Doesn't that apply to any new professional.
Alan M
2005-12-14 @ 11:30
Comment from: Joyn Zedella [Visitor]
Alan, Michelle Wie doesn't need to offer any excuses. Her legions of sycophants do it for her. For instance, "Michelle is young and hasn't learned how to play in the wind", "the wind affected her play more than the other players", "she had to wait 20 minutes on the tee", "she's in highschool and hasn't played as much as the Japanese golfers", "the courses in Japan are different than anywhere else", "her opponent in the Publinx(Clay Ogden)made too many birdies", etc., etc.,ad nauseum.
2005-12-14 @ 12:07
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
J, thanks for your kind words. However, if you are hoping from kinder words from John Zedella, I'm afraid that bitter people seldom chance.
2005-12-14 @ 13:39
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I meant CHANGE, not chance.
2005-12-14 @ 13:41
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella, I hope your owner has his pooper scooper with him, because you really are leaving quite a mess behind you!
2005-12-14 @ 13:44
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Zedella,
Many people are plain stupid, but your stupidity is absolutely outstanding!

As regards excuses:
* Michelle Wie is 16 years old. That is a VERY good excuse to not have made a cut on the pga tour.
* Tiger Woods, the greatest player was not able to make a cut until he was 18 years old. She still has two years to break his record.
* Missing her first 3 pga cuts is not a bad result. Tiger missed his first 7 cuts on the pga tour, and at that stage he was an experienced amatuer with lots of amatuer titles. Michelle Wie still has 4 events to break his record.
* The margin that Michelle Wie missed her cuts by was 1 shot, and 2 shots, in 2 of her 3 events. Tiger Woods missed by several shots in his first few attempts. Michelle has already got a better record than Tiger Woods.

As anyone with any bit of cop on will be able to tell (anyone but John Zedella), Michelle Wie has done better at the top level, than Tiger Woods had done at the same age in his career.

So, up until now Michelle Wie has done far better than Tiger Woods did. And you are insulting Michelle Wie.
It really does show your complete stupidity to degrade someone who is doing better than the worlds greatest player did at the same stage of his career.
2005-12-14 @ 13:57
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Aw, c'mon Norman! Calling me or anyone with whom you disagree"stupid" will not win you any debating points. You see, Norman, in civil society, people can have diverse opinions without resorting to invective or personal insults. As a case in point, my views on how Michelle Wie's budding career is being handled are diametrically opposed to yours. But I would never refer to you or any other person with similar views as "stupid". Gullible, perhaps. Misguided, maybe. Inflexible, certainly. But definitely not stupid. Just for my personal information, what do you folks add to that Kool-aid that gives it such a kick? I.ve tried some vodka but I still couldn't get on the Wie bandwagon. Maybe I'll throw in a little "Bombay Sapphire". Grape Kool-aid could always use a little class.
2005-12-14 @ 14:40
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, comparing Michelle Wie to Tiger Woods at any age or at any stage of their careers is like comparing Francis the Talking Mule to Secretariat. By the time Woods turned pro, he had WON (a word that is foreign to any Wie biography) three US Junior Championships, and a US Amateur crown, his first in three consecutive such victories. Wie has now turned pro and her resume is entirely devoid of any similar wins, with the exception of a score in a publinx event in 2003.(You erroneously stated it was 1993). Michelle Wie better than Tiger Woods? Dream on, Norman, dream on.
2005-12-14 @ 15:31
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
I'm glad you have mentioned Tiger's Amatuer successes.

John, the point we agree on is just how great Tiger Woods is.

You constantly bash Wie's PGA career just far.

The point is: Tiger Woods, even with all his NUMEROUS amatuer successes, was still nowhere near good enough for the pga in his first several attempts. Michelle has done much better on the pga then Tiger Woods did. Given that he had the experience of WINNING in the amatuer ranks, and the experience of GETTING THE JOB DONE, and all those things people like you discuss, he still was nowhere near the standard that Michelle is at on the pga.

That shows just how great her achievements are.
2005-12-14 @ 16:19
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, It would seem that your definition of "great achievements"(your words) are different than mine. Let's analyze these great achievements by Michelle Wie. She entered a men's event on the Canadian tour. She missed the cut. She entered a tournament on the Nationwide tour. She missed the cut. Twice she played the Sony on the PGA tour. Twice she missed the cut. Finally, she entered a men's event on the Japan tour and again missed the cut. In all these events, she did not earn a spot in the tourney, she was granted sponsors' exemptions. She played at least twice in the US Women's Amateur and never made the final pairing. She never won the US Junior Girl's Championship. And she was soundly beaten in her recent attempt in the US public links event. These performaces do not rate consideration as "great achievements", at least in my opinion. Now, I happen to think that Michelle Wie has an enormous amount of natural talent and ability, and that she quite possibly will be a force on tha LPGA for many years to come. I just do not think that her mediocre record to this point is deserving of all the fawning adulation she is receiving. And again, I simply do not believe That MW or any other female will ever be able to compete on the PGA tour. The inherent genetic physiological disadvantages will preclude that from happening.
2005-12-14 @ 17:34
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
John, you keep contradicting yourself. On on hand you say that women are incapable of competing with men. On the other had you make fun of Wie for only making it to the top 8 of the Men's publinx, where thousands of men were entered starting at the sectionals. If you truely believe that women are so inferior, you should laud her success at the Publinx beating so many inately superior men.
2005-12-14 @ 18:14
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John,
1) Do you deny that Tiger Woods has great achievements?
2) Do you deny that Tiger Woods has great amatuer achievement when he was competing in his first 7 events on the pga tour?
3) Do you deny that Michelle Wie has done far better than Tiger Woods did in their first pga attempts?
Please answer all 3 questions.
2005-12-14 @ 18:47
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, No, no, yes.
2005-12-14 @ 20:54
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, well done. I applaud you for getting the first two answers correct.

Now lets have a look at the 3rd one:
Michelle Wie's first 3 finishes (pga):
Even, +9, +1.

Tiger's first 3 finishes:
+5, +10, +6

Let's look a little closer:
1st event, Michelle 5 shots better.
2nd event, Michelle 1 shot better.
3rd event, Michelle 5 shots better.

John Zedella cannot understand that Michelle Wie has clearly done better in her first 3 pga events, than Tiger did.
If John Zedella cannot grasp even these clear and simply laid out figures then I don't think there is much hope of him understanding anything else.
2005-12-14 @ 21:13
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, you have your opinion and although it is an erroneous one, you are certainly entitled to it. Since I was kind enough to answer your three questions, perhaps you can reciprocate. Is English your first and/or native language? The reason for my asking is that you keep referring to Michelle Wie's lackluster performances as "better" than Paula's or "better" than Tiger's. The last time I looked, better is the comparative form of "good". Consistently missing cuts and a 5 and 4 trouncing in an amateur event cannot be considered "good" or "better" by any stretch of the imagination. A suggestion: If you must make these ridiculous comparisons between MW and Tiger, use the proper terms i.e., "not as bad" and "not as poorly. Don't bother to thank me, that's my job. I'm here to help.
2005-12-15 @ 09:34
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John, no problem with answering question here.

* Yes English is my first language.
* As regards better, it means that something is of a higher standard, than something else.
* If you keep referring to the US Amatuer, then yes, being the first woman ever to qualify is a success, by finishing in first place at a sectional.
* Making the cut of 64 from a stroke play part of that event, from a 156 player field is also a success.
* Beating 3 men in the round of 64, 32 and 16 to make the quarter final is also a success.
* Then being beaten in the quarter final by a man who would go on to win the tournament outright, and book his place in the Masters is certainly not a failure.
* So the performance was far from lackluster, and outstanding would be a better way of describing it.
2005-12-15 @ 10:18
Comment from: John Zedella [Visitor]
Norman, as my grandchildren are fond of saying,"whatever floats your boat." I've had fun kicking this subject around on this thread and I especially got a charge out of Vernon W who hinted that I might be some sort of "alter ego" for Chris Baldwin. Tomorrow morning I am leaving to spend the Christmas and New Year holidays on the island of Aruba. You should try it; it has the most beautiful beach in the world, Eagle Beach. I'll be returning on 11 JAN in time to watch Michelle at the Sony. I hope for the sake of Wie's Fleas that she makes the cut. You guys really need something to crow about. Joyeux Noel, Froeliche Weinacht, Feliz Navidad, Vesele Vianoce, and Merry Christmas to all.
2005-12-15 @ 11:32
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Norman
I feel we are wasting our time responding to JZ. I think the J really stands for Joker, because he certainly can't be serious.
All the stats are there to see, which prove that Wie has had an exceptional career to date, far better than any other golfer of the same age.
Apart from Annika every other woman on the LPGA would have happily settled for Wie's 2005 achievements
at the beginning of the season. She is probably the second best female golfer on the planet. She plays shots the other ladies can only dream about.
Also if he can't accept that her PGA finishes are nothing short of amazing he obviously has no idea about golf.
I can't believe he spends so much time writing on this Blog just to contradict other people. Not that I'm counting but he has written about 3000 words.
John
you wrote "And real pros don't offer excuses" this is definitely saying that Michelle was offering excuses. You are dead wrong on that charge.

Alan M

2005-12-15 @ 11:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Well have a good Christmas, John Zedella. I am glad that you planned your holiday to suit your golf watching requirements, so you could tune in to MW at the Sony Open.

Alan, indeed some of the things John Zedella say are absolutely ridiculous, but it is a fairly common condition that he has.
It is very difficult for someone to admit then they are wrong. If somebody says something there is a compulsive urge to stick by it, even if they find out they are wrong.
Admitting you are wrong is one of the single hardest things that anyone can be asked to do.
I think John Z probably knows it, he has been supplied with insurmountable evidence, but admitting it is another thing.
2005-12-15 @ 15:45
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Also, I do hope that Michelle makes the cut at the Sony Open, but I am not particularly confident. I am well aware that performance is the main thing at this stage of her career.

If she learns more, than the experience will be useful, whether the cut is made or not.

2005-12-15 @ 16:36
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Ai Miyazato, hit 78 in her second round of a Japanese mens tournament.
That is:
80 (+9)
78(+7)
for a total of +16 to finish in last place.

I am just wondering where Chris Baldwins story about this is.
When Michelle Wie finished at +4 to miss the cut by 1 stroke at the Casio, Chris stayed up all night to bring us a story straight away.

Michelle Wie missed cut by 1 (+4).
Ai Miyazato missed cut by 14 (+16).

Where is the story Chris?

PS.: Fair play to Ai Miyazato for trying.
2005-12-16 @ 11:19
Comment from: Jim Coulthard [Visitor]
I'm not Chris, but I'm sure he could do something.

Not only did Ai Miyazato show she can win, which she did at the LPGA Q school. Not only did Ai Miyazato finish 14 strokes ahead of Morgan Pressel who last finished well ahead of Michelle Wie in the US Women's Open. BUT SHE ALSO SHOWED MICHELLE WIE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A WOMAN TO PLAY IN THE JAPANESE MEN'S PGA WITHOUT BLOWING EVERYTHING ON THE LAST TWO HOLES--AND UNLIKE MICHELLE WIE, AI MIYAZATO WAS TO ATTAIN THIS ACHIEVEMENT SO FAR BEYOND MICHELLE WIE, WITHOUT SHIFTING HER FOCUS AWAY FROM THE WOMEN'S GAME.
2005-12-16 @ 19:17
Comment from: Greg Pinelli [Visitor]
Matt...and Chris.....I might as well speak to you both at the same time since neither one of you understand what's going on. Michelle Wie was given millions and is paid attention to because she is a great talent and a greater potential media star than anyone else in a part of the world that puts its money where its mouth is....Asia. It is irrelevant who finishes ahead of whom at Q school. Or that Jim thinks because Miyazato focuses on the "womens game" (whatever that proves to be!) she is somewhere up the road from Michelle.
In seven years most people won't even recognize the professional competitive golf world. It will have passed them by because they insist on fitting their round pegs into square holes. Michelle is at he vanguard of golf's future and all have Sorenstam to thank for taking it to the next plateau. Wie is only 16 and will prove to be the Bobby Jones of women's golf. After she makes her mark no one....not even the pin heads who can't see beyond money rankings....will ever look on the game the same way again.
Perhaps Chris, Jim and Matt can all sit around some cocktail lounge with Vijay just what the hell happened.
2005-12-18 @ 20:28
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
A couple of comments: Vernon, let it go, you got your apology. Calling people idiots for disagreeing with your fanatical position shows a serious mental deficiancy. Alan, you are right about one thing there is a J on this site and it does stand for Joker, it's the j that beleives Michelle Wie will win on the PGA Tour. Finally, Greg---The man who claims that Michelle is going to change the way competitive golf is viewed in the future. That's pretty lofty stuff Greg, how about we see if the girl can win first before we compare her to Bobby Jones. Greg--Chris, Jim Vijay and I could have that converation right now--we could discuss how it came to be that a lanky teen from Hawaii with precious little resume has come to be the saviour and future of golf. I live in a world where results, winning, dominating the compettition are the benchmarks for greatness. When she does these things then we can discuss her role as champion of the entire golf universe. I like Michelle Wie, what I don't like are her fans who blindly think she can do no wrong and supply her with an endless string of excuses everytime she fails.
2005-12-19 @ 08:31
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
Chris,

Jealous of a 16 year old girl? Pathetic. You are trying to make a name for yourself by riding on her coat tails. You should be worshipping at her feet for allowing you to be associated with her.
2005-12-19 @ 09:35
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Greg
Well said.
Matt, you still don't get it.
Even if Wie has a mediocre career (very unlikely) she will still change how people view ladies golf, and the aspirations of girls starting the game.
The simple fact is, with Wie playing ladies golf is no longer boring.
Annika is a great player but she is still boring, people need something new something exciting. Wie is the answer to the LPGA prayers.
Alan M
2005-12-19 @ 11:41
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Annika is the greatest women's player in history, she wins 50% of her starts last year and she has played in a men's event(the more challenging Colonial) with the same result as Michelle(cut missed) and she is boring, yet Michelle wins nothing and is considered the role model all girls and golfers alike should aspire to be like. Why? Her length off the tee--big deal her driving distance putts her in the middle of the pack in the men's game and would have her hitting first in my fouresome more times then not. Her personality--she has displayed no more charm or charisma than Annika or a paper napkin for that matter. We only know what her marketing firm and Nike want us to know about her. What Annika has done is to dominate her sport as nobody before her has done what has Michelle shown that she can be an also ran at a men's tournament and almost win on the LPGA Tour. I'll take "boring" wins and domination over "exciting" top 10's and missed cuts anyday.
2005-12-19 @ 13:05
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt,
Annika missed the cut by what 7? at the Colonial.
Do not try to same that is the same as missing the cut by 1 or 2 shots.
Michelle has done far better on the pga than Annika did and that is a fact.

As regards Michelle's personality. If it were boring, then why do massive audiences tune in when she plays, either in mens or ladies tournaments?

Annika has done great things in the womens game. Michelle has the potential to do things in the mens game, as she has already shown.

And Michelle's performances on the pga tour have already changed the way many people used to think about female golfers.

Michelle's performances have even outstripped Tiger's (not to mind Annika) in his first 7 attempts on the pga tour.
2005-12-19 @ 14:14
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Norman---Missing the cut is missing the cut! What has she done that is so great in the mens game, nothing. She has been allowed to play through sponser's exemptions and she has not made the cut. Your argument is getting tiresome, would you think a male professional who fails to make the cut was a success, no. Then why is Michelle Wie a success for failing to make the cut, I'll tell you why, becuase she is a teenage girl, that's why and that is my point how can you expect her to be a role model for women and the future of golf when you and all her fans hold her to a lesser standard. She plays great for a girl her age arguments are demeaning to her and ultimately set women back. Michelle has chosen to become a professional and she has chosen to test her game against the very best competition, now she must be judged against those lofty standards. If you insist on giving her credit for trying you must allow her to take the crticism for failing. It does not sit well with me when somone is elevated to a status that they have not earned. Michelle was not the best junior golfer, she was not the best amatuer golfer, she is not the best female golfer and she will not ever beat the best male golfers in the world by winning a PGA tournament, but she is future of golf. I don't buy it. People watch Michelle Wie because they are sheep following the herd, they are doing what they are told, you watch her because the media tells you to. They tell you will be the next big thing and you want to believe them, they show you highlights of big drives and beautiful approach shots and they give you stats that suggest that she was better than Tiger and you believe. I will believe it when I see it.
2005-12-19 @ 15:02
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Hey Norman, I have some stats for you:

Lpga Tour Victories: My son 0
Michelle Wie 0

Men's Cuts made: My son 0
Michelle Wie 0

AJGA events won: My son 6
Michelle Wie 0

I guess that settles it, my son is the future of golf. His career record proves it just look at the stats they never lie and he's only 12 years old just wait until he hits puberty, he'll probably be the greatest ever. Norman is there some higher level of competition then the PGA Tour, I want my son to be an inspiration for boys everywhere maybe he can play against martians on the intergalactic tour.
2005-12-19 @ 15:26
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt, your ignorance of golf is astounding.
Please do not take this as an insultment, you could still be a very nice person, and perhaps your intelligence levels are very high for other walks of life.

* Missing the Cut is not always the same. There is a big difference between missing the cut by 7 and missing the cut by 1.
* For Ernie Els, a missed cut is a missed cut, because he expects to make the cut.
* However at the start of Ernie Els career, you can be well sure, that it made a huge difference to him how much he missed the cut by.

* Whether you like it or not Michelle Wie is 16 and is a girl. She is NOT a 30 year old pro with years of full tour experience behind her. She is NOT to be judged the exact same way as all other pros. Annika has been out there for years. Through years of hard work, she has got to the stage where she is dominant on the lpga.

* I really hope that you can get the point into your head: She is STARTING OUT, she is new, people should be judged on there progress at THIS STAGE in there career.
Her progress at this stage in her career is outstanding.

I know you aren't very good with stats but maybe these will help. Here are MW LPGA finishes:
2003: 9, 28, 33, 39, 52, 69, mc
2004: 4, 6, 12, 13, 13, 19, 33
2005: 2, 2, 2, 3, 12, 14, 23.

Hopefully you can digest the figures above, and come up with the word "progress".
Between Wie being 13-14-15 years of age there has been dramatic IMPROVEMENT each year. That is why her age is important.
At that age, all players have big gainst to be made.

Her results are outstanding. She has done fantastic. Sometimes it is difficult to believe just how well she has done so far.
2005-12-19 @ 18:13
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt,
what is the closest your son has come to making a pga cut?
2005-12-19 @ 18:24
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Matt
It is official, you talk out of your behind. How can you have the audacity to say that the millions of people (yes millions) who tune in and thousand of extra people that turn up at tournaments are sheep.
You have just insulted half of the US population.
Obviously these people realise what a special talent Wie possesses and are willing to pay good money to see her.
Then to cap it off you wrongly accused Vernon, you said Of Vernon “Calling people idiots for disagreeing with your fanatical position shows a serious mental deficiency”.
He actually wrote “ Thanks for being man enough to admit when you are wrong. It just "unchills" me when someone says something so false. Some other idiot might actually believe you!!
He was only calling you an idiot. I don’t think you qualify as people. I doubt anyone else would agree with your comments. Sorry I forgot about JZ.
Make a lot of people happy and stop writing on this Blog.

Alan M
2005-12-19 @ 19:00
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Why are you so angry Alan? Because I disagree with you. You think half the US population are Michelle Wie fans, half the population doesn't know who she is. I will continue to write on this blog as long as I please. In the US we allow and yes even encourage opinions different from our own. Some believe people with I.Q.'s less then their shoe size should be euthanized, but I'm not giving them your name, so relax, listen and learn something.
2005-12-19 @ 21:45
Comment from: Brendan [Visitor]
Matt: Does your "I.Q.'s" possess ownership of something? Check your grammar I.Q. boy.
2005-12-19 @ 22:01
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Norman---you may find this hard to believe, but I am actually quite a nice person. As I have said numerous times we just disagree on the defintion of success and the current and future career path of one Michelle Wie. I do have to respectfully disagree with your assesment of my golf knowledge. I have an appreciation for the history of the game, I played the game competitvely and continue to play at a level I am fairly certain is well above your own. In short what we are debating is very hard to quantify, we are debating potential and early career results, and even cultural significance. Time may tell who is right and who is wrong, but it also may not. Based on your writings if Michelle Wie's "career" ended tomorrow you would probably still call her a success, while I would call her a bust.
2005-12-19 @ 22:05
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Very good Brendan. I have a secretary to do that for me, but you wouldn't know anything about that.
2005-12-19 @ 22:10
Comment from: Brendan [Visitor]
Matt: I actually have a secretary and two paralegals. That being said, if you’re arrogant enough to call someone else’s I.Q. into question, you better be smart enough to recognize the hypocrisy of your own bad grammar. But you wouldn't know anything about that.


2005-12-19 @ 22:16
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
What no ambulances running tonight, Brendan? You are taking on quite a big task, correcting the grammar of golf bloggers. You got me, now write about golf or go to a grammar chat room.
2005-12-19 @ 22:47
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Matt,
Your big problem is that you judge Michelle Wie's career as if she were 47 years old, well passed her peak, and with little more to come.
2005-12-20 @ 12:01
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
And Norman your big problem is that you see Michelle as having a career period. I understate the importance of her accomplishments thus far and you overstate them. I think we can both agree that while she has yet to win anything, she will and probably a lot. so for the time being I will pick on the winless overhyped Michelle, and you can gloat later in her career when she accomplishes things that nobody else ever has.
2005-12-20 @ 12:12
Comment from: Brendan [Visitor]
Hey Matt: I came to this blog looking for intelligent discussion on golf and instead I found your amusing little ravings about Michelle Wie. As long you continue to act like an ass and belittle everyone else's opinions, I will continue to write about your shortcomings, including your grammar.
2005-12-20 @ 19:14
Comment from: matt [Visitor]
Brendan you would be an expert on shortcomings, at least that's what your wife told me last night. You want to talk about golf, we can talk about golf, you want to be a smart ass I can play that game too.
2005-12-20 @ 21:47
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Matt and Chris go hand in hand.
2005-12-20 @ 23:03
Comment from: dean [Visitor]
from dean hello to Brendan. Why is there fight. Annika is good. Miss Cramer is good. miss Wie is good. miss Preszel is good. many Kims girls is good. many china and Japan girls good. when Playing one onely can win. Goodby and happy holydays to many. dean
2005-12-21 @ 11:15
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Dean, there is fighting because some people disrespect Michelle Wie and what she has done and is doing for the game of golf.

There are even people who refer to her second place finishes in major tournaments as failures.
Also some people refer to her being the first woman to qualify for a mens usga amatuer event and get to the quarter final, as a failure.

Also, Chris Baldwins blogs are bound to make arguments occur.
2005-12-21 @ 12:09
Comment from: Brendan [Visitor]
Matt: Your true colors are finally showing and it’s hilarious. I got you on tilt so fast you’re resorting to “my wife” jokes. That’s too funny. Good job little man. By the way: (1) I’m not married; and (2) wouldn’t your sister be angry if she caught you fooling around behind her back? Ha! You’re so easy it’s pathetic… but very entertaining nonetheless. Matt, we’ve all known guys like you and know exactly how you think. That’s why it’s so easy to get you all riled up. Anyway, I’m going to go back to work now and give you a day or two to come up with something witty. Don’t hurt yourself though; we all need you to stick around for the shear entertainment value.
2005-12-21 @ 14:39
Comment from: dean [Visitor]
To norman thank you. So miss Wie has win much tourments she is not failure. To my certain knowledge she is success! which is more tournments win Annika or miss Wie. Paulia Cramer is to good. goodby dean.
2005-12-21 @ 15:18
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Okay, nice try with the Dean guy and the whole play-acting as someone with little English. Identify yourself Dean. Are you George, Matt or Chris?
2005-12-21 @ 15:56
Comment from: dean [Visitor]
Hello Norman. My name Dieter Ljubicic. I born Zagreb Hrvatsko. In US Croatia. my birtyhday 20-07-70. Now i live city Chicago Ill. 1446 Bryn Mawr strs. I work union carpentier, now remodel lawyer office floor 29 333 Wacker Dr. 2nd shift. Govurnor of Ill is also Croatian, Blagojevich. Fellows on job give me name dean. Goodby
2005-12-22 @ 08:39
Comment from: Mike B. [Visitor]
I'm amazed by all the comments from folks that obviously have no clue about competitive golf.

My father was a club pro and it took him 3 attempts to get his amateur status back so he could play amateur golf tournaments. Alan asked "Why would Wie play in an amateur event given the chance to play at the British Open, Duh a bit of a no brainer wouldn't you say."

Duh, Alan, the reason Wie should want to play (and win) these amateur events is because it would prove that her sole victory in USGA women/girls amateur events was no fluke. It would prove she is the best among her peers. It would prove she can WIN and help her WIN in the future on the LPGA tour.

Notice how she has not won anywhere (of note) in 3 years now? In golf it is important to learn how to win. I believe Tiger himself made this comment.

I admire Wie's ability as a player. She is an awesome talent and has tremendous potential for a future on the LPGA tour.

That said, the media (and PGA tourney sponsors) have blown her ability way out of proportion due to her ability to hit "the long ball." (Remember the Greg Maddux baseball commercial-"Chicks dig the long ball?") The media and non-golfing fans love to see the ball fly 300+ yards. Unfortunately many of them don't realize that length is a tremendous advantage but the test is how many, not how long. (See Fred Funk for proof.)

This blog was written to give Herb credit for wanting Morgan to succeed in women's pro golf. I agree 100% that grandpa is better for Morgan than BJ is for Michelle.

Some noted jealousy on the part of the Pressel camp. What family wouldn't stand up for a player that has completely blown away the accomplishments (on the golf course, getting the ball in the hole) of their own when their own is not getting the same opportunity (LPGA exemptions) as someone who has won 1 USGA title ever but has the media drilling us with hype due to distance off the tee. She's over 6 feet tall and has tremendous ability to uncork with massive clubhead speed. Being 16 (or 15, 14, 13) has nothing to do with arc of her swing. She's a great player but don't blame Morgan (or Krickstein) for wanting the chance to show her stuff on the LPGA when until the Women's US Open, Morgon received few (compared to Wie) exemptions. Pressel was denied exemptions while Wie got them to sell tickets (Chicks dig the longball).

They did not bash Wie, they merely pointed out facts that seem to escape those in love with Wie's towering drives and barely missed cuts on the PGA tour.

Pressel said, "Wie seems more concerned with promoting Michele Wie than promoting the LPGA and women's golf." Let's see, she's not playing the amateur events against the best female amateur players but she has attempted (and failed to qualify) to compete with men on the Japanese, Canadian, Nationwide and PGA tours (0 for 6?) to sell tickets on Thursday and Friday. Seems Morgan is stating facts.

Wie turned pro not so she could play full time on the LPGA tour (can't interfere with those dates with the men) but so she could get endorsement $. Again, Morgan has a point.

I'm not against Wie getting endorsements, that's the American way and more power to her. But many golfers (not the non-golfing fans) have already grown tired of the media hype surrounding her and her Thursday/Friday outings against the best players in the world (and the 2nd, 3rd and 6th tier of pro men players) and don't watch the John Deere's because its all Wie all the time.

I noticed no one mentioned Wie's attempt to get in the Master's via the Men's Public Links championship. Wie bypassed another chance to shut Pressel up so she could compete with the best amateur men players in the world. 2 years ago she didn't even make match play. Last year she did that but still came up several match play wins short of winning that title and the exemption that Hootie and the boys offer. I read the small print and noticed that this winner's exemption was "traditionallly" given to the winner. Had Wie won, wouldn't Martha Burke's panties had been in a bunch if Hootie and the boys decided they would break tradition (as every PGA tourney sponser that offered Wie an exemption has done) and not offer a spot to the 2005 winner?

Again, Morgan has more facts supporting her opinion of Wie's self serving motives.

Yet Morgan and Herb get bashed for looking for LPGA opportunities and Wie the phenom keeps plugging along coming up short against the men.

I admire Wie's wish to compete with the best in the world (though she's in way over her head) but when Annika left Colonial with the "I belong on the LPGA tour" mindset, I was pretty convinced that the gap is large (between LPGA and PGA) and if there was only one pro golf tour, few women would make a living playing golf professioanlly. Annika has dominated the LPGA for years and is no doubt the best player on her tour (even more so than Tiger's on the PGA tour). Has Wie beaten Annika more than once or twice? Then why would her father try to convince her that she's ready to compete with men when the woman who has dominated the LPGA for years couldn't make a cut in her hand picked event (on a curse she thought she could compete)?

I'm all for kids having dreams but shouldn't one compete (and EARN one's spot) at each level before being handed an exemption to compete with the best in the world?

The bottom line, in my opinion, is Morgan has won and dominated the JR league. She did well in the LPGA events she played and was a miraculous bunker shot being holed away from the most prestigous Women's title on earth-The U S Open. Notice how few times it was mentioned that Pressel was the youngest QUALIFIER in history for the US Open until after she was doing well at the Open. Yet we are constantly reminded of Wie's only USGA win as a youngster.

Morgan doesn't want more attention than Wie. She's not trying to take anything from Wie.

Morgan's request is simple: Look at all the young ladies' golf accomplishments and give out LPGA sponsor exemptions based on what each has done on the course in competition. Let the clubs (all, not mainly the driver) earn a spot in the competition.

Trust me, golfers, the ones who buy the golf products advertised during the telecast, will flock to watch the best golfer whether she hits it 300+ yards or not.

Yeah, Morgan asked why there was little mention of Wie's 82 in the final round and I agree she could have been more tactful. Funny how the youth card is quickly played in Wie's defense but Morgan's held to a different standard.

Some bashed Pressel for only finishing 6th but not winning at Q-School. She qualified and earned her spot and that was her goal. If you played competitive golf you'd know that all great players expect to win but at Q-School, qualifying is all that matters. I'll take that failure over repeatedly missing the cut on a tour that I've never proven I have the ability to compete.

Keep up the good work Chris Baldwin! Like you, I look forward to Pressel, Annika and Creamer doing battle this year, starting before Morgan's 18th birthday!

And for the record if the age restriction was lowered to 17 for Pressel it would be lowered to 16 for Wie if she wanted to play the LPGA full time tomorrow (assuming she'd QUALIFY).

2005-12-22 @ 13:50
Comment from: Mike B. [Visitor]
Hey Norm, missing a cut is missing a cut. As a pro you get $0 whether you miss the cut by 1 or 19. In many USGA amateur events the cut begins the match play portion, thus if you miss the cut in medal play by 1 or 19 you still don't play match play.

Doesn't Michelle Wie feel she can win on the PGA tour? She has said that is her goal.

Have you ever seen her excited about missing a cut?

Did you see the disappointment when she lost in the Pub Links?

She's not out on any tour, at any tournament to just make the cut.
2005-12-22 @ 14:13
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Mike B, you really shouldn't have wrote so much, because your lack of knowledge jumps out.

* It certainly matters to EVERY PLAYER if they miss the cut by 1 or 19. Do you think if Ernie Els missed the cut by 19, he would say, "oh well, a missed cut is a missed cut". No he would not. He would be very embarrassed. Scores matter, and how much you miss the cut by, and your placing matters.

* Yes Michelle Wie was dissappointed after losing in the quarter finals of the publinx. Like every player is disappointed after they lose a match. However, she has said, that of the season, the US Publinx is one of her proudest achievements. Just like Monty at the British Open, he was disappointed initially, but when he looked back, he was proud of how well he had done.

* Mike, you harped on about the lack of wins. That is old news and has been debated before. There is little doubt that even Pressel knows that her 2nd place at the US Women's Open is a far greater achievement than any of her amatuer titles. Amatuer titles are nice little trophies for the mantlepiece. lpga is what counts.

* As regards this "learning to win" myth, that you can learn to win on the lpga by winning amatuer events, I have shown in another blog how this is pure rubbish.
eg 1: Tiger Woods was winning amatuer titles and it didn't help him on the pga. Only when he got pga experience, did he learn how to win on the pga.
eg 2: Paula Creamer, while a successful amatuer she couldn't cut it on the lpga. Only when she went pro and got some lpga experience did she start to improve.

* As regards this long hitting thing, Wie can do alot more than just hit the ball long, and if you don't know that, you are deluding yourself.

* Then you went on to complain about Pressel not getting exemptions. Pressel played 7 events last season. Wie played 8 events. Pressel got plenty of exemptions.
Wie beat Pressel in all but 1 of the events they played together, which shows that Wie deserved the extra exemption.

* Then you mentioned the US Publinx and thought that Wie avoided Pressel to play with the men. Wie was trying to get to the Masters, and made a pretty good go of it. Qualifying for it, getting through stroke play. Beating 3 men, and losing out in the quarter final to the eventual winner. That achievement was far greater than if she had won a female amatuer event.

* At the US Open, Pressel was NOT a miraculous bunker shot, from winning. Pressel finished 2 shots behind. If Kim got an un and down, Pressel would have still lost by 1. If you want to claim that it put Pressel off by 2 shots, then at best she could have been in a playoff, where success is far from guaranteed.
Pressel came 2nd at the US Open. In fact it was joint 2nd. Wie was outright 2nd, at another major, the lpga championship.

* Pressel asked why there was so little mention of Wie's 82 at the US Open final round. Did she also ask why there was no mention of Creamer's 79. No she didn't, because she isn't as jealous of Creamer. I guess Pressel would want Wie's bad round to be mentioned, since it is the only time Pressel managed to beat Wie in the season.
2005-12-22 @ 14:48
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Duh Mike
So your dad was a club pro. Big deal. He obviously wanted to get his amateur status back because he couldn’t compete against pro’s.
The problem people have with the Pressel’s comments is that she shouldn’t make any negative comments about another player. I can’t recall any other player ever making personal comments about a fellow competitor. Its just not golf.
All your comments are old hat.
The thing you don’t realise is that Wie isn’t the same as Pressel, Tiger, Annika or your dad. She doesn’t see the advantage of winning against her peers. To her it is a waste of valuable time. If it ultimately affects her career, which I doubt very much she will have herself to blame.
Her goals and ambitions are so different to the other females. She is comfortable with how she is progressing.
Think about it. Just turned 16. She hits the ball longer than any female on tour. Hits it higher. Puts more spin on the ball. Hits knock down shots. High fades etc. She simply has more shots in her game than any other female including the amazing Annika.
Ultimately she wants to play on the PGA.
All of this makes her unique and the reason more people want to watch her more than the rest of the LPGA players put together. The reason sponsors are tripping over each other to get her to sign for them.
There is a chance she will not succeed but it won’t be for the lack of trying, and she certainly doesn’t want to die not knowing if she was good enough or not to make it against the guys.
Alan M
2005-12-22 @ 19:26
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Morgan Pressel and Michelle Wie each received the maximum 6 LPGA exemptions. Both also played a 7th event--the US Women's Open. Blame the British if you wish for inviting Michelle Wie and not Morgan Pressel.
2005-12-22 @ 21:52
Comment from: jay [Visitor]
Mike. Morgan was enjoying all the spotlight and status of media darling when she was youngest player to qualify for women's open despite the fact that she missed cut by 6 strokes and hadn't won anything. Can I say sour grapes? At least wie finished top 10 in major and also won usga championship despite she was only few months older than pressel.
2005-12-26 @ 03:51
Comment from: BAld compares michelle with any other PGA player [Visitor]
Downs compare gem with charcoal
2006-01-03 @ 09:31
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
[B]the[/B]
2006-01-04 @ 16:07
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
[QUOTE]the[/QUOTE]
2006-01-04 @ 16:10

Comments are closed for this post.

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