Random thoughts...

You babysit small children?

I think Sergio Garcia's Adidas shirts are lovely.

Special K is slang for ketamine.

Someone lets you babysit their three year old?

Well said, Mr. Baldwin. On Saturday I pulled up the LPGA live scoring page right after they completed 11 holes. My first thought was "let's see how she loses this one." I loved every minute of it.

I loved it because I despise what corporations are doing to the game I love, in the guise of this social engineering BS.

The sad thing is that this girl doesn't have the right stuff, and maybe could have developed it if the hype machine wasn't there. She won't be around for long.

Charles Barkley wondered where all the subtlety's gone...that's so good it's really good. That one made me laugh. Round Mound of Rebound Rises Again! Of all the bleeping guys to have her pal around with, and her family chooses Ernie Els. Maybe one day she will have a "little lady" on her shoulder that whispers into her ear that she isn't good enough. Then she can hire Jos V. as a mind consultant...wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. I hope she wins and shuts down our blog machine. A Wie win will kill the antipathy between readers.

Ron Mon, There is no further need for you to hope that Michelle Wie will win. I have already decreed that Bubbles WILL win at the Weetabix later this week. And I've already explained how she will win. She will spread-eagle the field by at least ten strokes. She can do things on a golf course that no other female can do. Most of the PGA pros can't match her shot making either. She hits her two-iron 250+ yards in the air. With the added roll due to the parched fairways, she won't need her driver since she will reach all the par fives in two. Just like Tiger. Her putting and short irons are the best on the LPGA tour. She won't even need her "A" game to trounce these others. Annika, Se Ri, and Karrie will soon be distant memories.

You guys are so tiresome.

"
I loved it because I despise what corporations are doing to the game I love, in the guise of this social engineering BS.

The sad thing is that this girl doesn't have the right stuff, and maybe could have developed it if the hype machine wasn't there. She won't be around for long."

Are you mates with Uri Geller? What possible basis can you base such an assumption on? I really can't see it. So, you're second at sixteen, gone at 20? Is that your belief? It just seems exceptionally strange to me.

And by the way, I am not a "Wie warrior". I am not really into the LPGA to be honest. I just find it strange how someone can see someone come second at sixteen and then say "they'll be gone is a few years".

Chris Baldwin is especially tiresome. Does he actually make a living writing this stuff and the sad thing is he actually believes his own hype. Ho hum.

Florida Mike, Come on, man, get with it. Get on the bandwagon. This is the 21st century. Bubbles is the wave of the future as well as the present. The really savvy posters on these blogs have it right. The thought that a golfer should learn to win as an amateur before trying to win as a pro is as outdated as spats. Sure, Tiger, Phil, Chris, Justin, and a lot of others like Annika and Paula won as amateurs before their stellar careers as pros, but that was way back in the 1990's. That's ancient history. They were good, but they were not Bubbles. When she wins the Weetabix in a romp, her confidence will be such that another win at the Samsung will be a foregone conclusion. And don't count Bubbles out of the Omega Masters and the 84 Lumber, both heretofore men's events. Look for her to finish at least top five in both. I expect her to really do well at the Omega. She'll be accustomed to European courses by then and the field should be ripe for the taking. Who's in the field, anyway? Sergio, Ernie, Retief, Jose Maria, Miguel Angel, Colin, Padraig, Nicholas Fasth, Paul Casey, Robert Karllson, Ian, and Luke? All wannabe's or hasbeens. Folks, a new day is dawning and Bubbles is the sun!

Alex, Sarcasm does not become you. I truthfully think Ms Wie will start to win on the women's venues soon. I also think that she will make the cut and play well enough to exonerate herself, but I am unconvinced that her future lies on the PGA or other men's venues. I do believe as Mr Ogilvie said that once she starts winning, some of you will be sick of her winning. I (and my daughter) will continue watching and enjoying her career, without disecting it to death. As I have said before, for her age, Ms Wie handles herself with poise and proffesionalism. Underline for her age! not for her playing, but for her comments. She is more mature at 16 than many of the men and women playing on the PGA and LPGA tours. I did enjoy seeing the women congratulating each other after the Evian tournament and was also pleased to watch some of Ms. Gulbis' compadres rooting her on in her attempt at her first win. Too bad the PGA cannot follow suit.

Stats from 2006 LPGA tournaments (Kraft, LPGA Championship, US Women's Open, Evian) which included all major players:

Scoring Average: 1) Wie 70.06, 2) Webb 70.62, 3) Sorenstam 70.75, 4) Ochoa 70.81, 5) Pak 71.25, 6) Creamer 72.25.

Money: 1) Webb $900K, 2) Sorenstam $727K, 3) Wie $576K, 4) Pak $542K, 5) Ochoa $376K, 6) Creamer $167K

Media hype? Hardly. A 16 year scores more than one-half stroke per round less than the greatest women players in the world. This is no fluke. The greatest golfer that ever lived, Tiger, loses 75% of the time. At 16, Tiger wasn't capable of making a cut, let alone contend in a major. Mr. Baldwin, do you know anything about golf?

sorry dissecting and professionalism were mispelled in my earlier post. (for all the grammer police)

Chris Baldwin,

How is Paula Creamer doing?

Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.

Florida Mike, Who's being sarcastic? Just because I'm a johnny-come-lately in the Wie Warrior ranks doesn't been I'm any less dedicated to Bubbles. Johnny N has got it right. Paula may have won four times last year and she may have done well as an amateur and at the "Q" school, but she is not now, nor never has been as good a golfer as Bubbles. If she were, she would have got the big bucks in endorsements instead of Bubbles. Karrie is also over rated. Oh sure, she won three times this year and lost another in a playoff. Big deal! How much does she get in endorsements? Okay, she won about thirty times, but most of those were before Bubbles came on the scene. Same for Annika. 70+ wins, but who did she beat? When Michelle starts her victory string this weekend, we'll see how many times over-the-hill Annika wins. All those hasbeens on the LPGA tour better get used to finishing second or lower. And Bubbles will definitely win and quite often on the PGA tour. A few months ago, one Wie fan said that Michelle wasn't done growing and that with weight training she would probably put on ten pounds of extra muscle. But recently another poster who is obviously in the know confided that in a few years, Bubbles will be 6'4", weigh 180 pounds, and be driving the ball 350 yards. Now, that may seem like exaggeration to some skeptics, but if you're a true believer, the sky's the limit.

Alex, I lost all respect for you. You were at least sane and occasionally funny, now you are a lunatic, just like Baldwin.

Chris, what is it that you are expecting of her? She played golf with 2 Hall of Famer on Saturday and came in tied 2nd. Ahead of all the rest of the best women golfers in the world. Lets just forget that she is 16 for a minute, Michelle was fantastic. Is it the fact that she has chosen a different path than all before her that bothers you so much? Media hype and incomprehensible endorsements somehow cloud the picture. I'm just enjoying watching a sweet, sincere, attractive, and very talented 16 year old girl play some amazing golf.

I will believe you have had a change of heart when you quit calling her bubbles! As for her going to 6'4" and 180, if she does, I would test her for steroids, HGH, etc...
I have never claimed she was better than any golfer male or female. My position is she has a mixture of great golf athletic prowess, natural ability, is photogenic and is charming for her age. I continue to enjoy watching her golf and it is the same enjoyment I had when I watched Jack Nicklaus as a kid/young man and Tiger as he came on the scene. I believe Michelle is going to be a great golfer and a positive role model for years to come. I will also forever be grateful for her help in getting my daughter interested in Golf!!

Hey Chris,

A while ago you said if Paula went for a year without a win, you would write an article attacking her the way you attack Wie. Well it's been a year since the last Evian......

Paul W

Yes, but it has only been 9 months and 1 week since Paula Creamer's last JLPGA win.

Hiya i've been reading the blogs w/ comments on wie and find them very entertaining, as I try to decipher the basis and the logic behind some posters comments about wie's progress in golf.

Anywho I decided to comment on this blog b/c it just confused me. Here's my observation so far when wie fans/ warriors profess how great Michelle Wie actually is the nay-sayers rip into them believing they think to highly of Michelle Wie, Yet when they don't profess how great she is by claiming she'll win the Evian the nay-sayers rip into them. Well this is lose lose situation for wie fans/warriors and a win win situation for the nay-sayers. The Wie fans/warriors are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

Is this the kid who you guys are ridiculing? She earned everything she has got. And, she has a heart, unlike many of you.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sp/072206britishopen/im:/060801/483/04321d80429c437dab3313d9cc305581;_ylt=Anty9t3Hgpwi4Ib83jrB1SDNaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--

Florida Mike, I'm glad to see that you also admire Jack Nicklaus and T. Woods. But remember, neither of them have the credentials of Bubb--- er, Michelle Wie. Both of them had to go the routes of junior, amateur, and collegiate competition before they attempted the pros. I'm certain that they both would have liked to forgo such boring golf, but they just didn't have the game and they needed to cut their teeth on competition with their adolescent peers. Bu---, Michelle didn't need to follow such mundane pursuits. She was the complete package as a 13 year old. Some of her neanderthal skeptics are imbued with the out-dated notion that she hasn't won any events on the LPGA tour or made any cuts on the PGA or Nationwide tours, and that somehow those things should have some significance. We, as Wie Warriors, know differently. Lack of any wins and many missed cuts may be a sign of mediocrity for some, but not for Bub---, Michelle Wie.

The fact that she skipped the junior and amateur route seems to be what
pisses so many people off, that somehow she was "too good" for that
is a slap in the face to everyone else who did took that route.
It was once said that jealousy is the trubute mediocrity pays to genius.
That seems to ring very true with Michelles critics. Does she not belong right
where she is at? She has revitalized women's golf, agree with her path or not.

Idio....er, Alex. Michelle Wie is anything but mediocre. I believe Jenny related in another blog the reasons that Ms Wie discontinued the amateur circuit and decided on the path that she is on. If need be I will research and find it. Suffice to say, that someone on her level (I point to her play of this year) there is no reason for her to be playing junior golf when she has proven that she can compete (excel?) at this level.

This will explain what winning on junior level will get you.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/lpga/2006-07-31-lincicome_x.htm

Ummm... Mr. Baldwin. You are the one who is transparent. You live in a separate dimension from impartiality. When the day comes that Wie does win and it will come and will also be followed by many others, I'm sure you will find a way to try to diminish that as well. You have already made up your mind about her and your position is separate from circumstance performance. Your gripes about Wie are petty and it's blatantly obvious.

Many pros on the LPGA would kill to have her record this year, even those who have won a tournament. Even with the limited number of tournaments she can play in and the fact that the season is only half through, she already has eclipsed the records that most pros on the LPGA will have by the end of the season. In the tournaments she and Sorenstam have played in at the same time this season, Wie has outperformed her more often than not, yet you don't gripe about Sorenstam.

It is inevitable that Wie will master the art of winning; she's on the accelerated path if you think about it. She is outperforming so many that did their time in college and now are noobs to the LPGA. Like them she is learning the art of getting and maintaining a lead, but her record shows that she's learning faster - and this while having a whole separate and demanding life outside of golf. She's still a student and can't dedicate all of her time to practice as the pros can and do.

To say she doesn't know how to win is silly. It's just a matter of time, and when it does come, it will be amusing to watch how you react. You will have to accept it, yet you will resist. You are biased and more transparent than anyone would hope to be. I don't know why you are so prejudiced against Wie, but get over yourself and address the positive.

"I'm going to retire at 35," says Lincicome, 20.
"I want to fish all day or gamble all day.
My goal is to make enough money to retire at 35."

*Is this the kid who you guys are ridiculing?*

I hope Michelle didn't get apple juice on her mustache. ;)

Seriously, so she offered her father some food. Cool. And?

Are we supposed to abase ourselves in adoration of
St. Michelle the Merciful because she happens to be part of
the club of 5 billion-plus attentive children in the world?
Just on the say-so of one of the Wie Lunatics on this blog?

-George

Now here is a great role model. Brittany encapsulates our society's problem.
Everybody wants it easy and fast, for what?
So they can kick back and do nothing with their lives? Michelle is a positive role
model who I for one, (father of four) want my kids to look up to. She busted down the door
of status quo, well before her lucratuve endorsments came. Why? Because she loves
the game and has an incredible talent. I beleive she is a sincere, genuine asset to
the game. She wants to finish high school and go to college. Even while
making 10 mil a year. If that does not speak of integrity what does.

Florida Mike, Where did you get the idea that I referred to MW as mediocre? Winless or not, she is a bona fide superstar, make that megastar, an icon, a role model, a,a,a,-- well, you know what I mean. I've flatly stated that she will win the Weetabix in a romp. She will contend seriously in the Omega Masters AND the 84 Lumber. And that she will have at least six wins by this time next year. And what do you old time Wie Warriors bode for Bubbles? She will play well, she will enjoy herself, she will continue to inspire pre-teen girls to play golf, and other such pap. Wie Warriors, where is your confidence, your fire, your enthusiasm?

Hey Alex_fan, if you look at the money list> LPGA GO-GETTERS

Brittany Lincicome has outperformed the young stars who received the bulk of the hype entering the LPGA season:

Player
Events
Wins
Top-10s
Earnings
$
Rank

Brittany Lincicome
15
1
4
$771,611
7

Paula Creamer
17
0
9
$739,421
11

Natalie Gulbis
18
0
6
$603,256
14

Ai Miyazato
16
0
3
$358,374
19

Morgan Pressel
15
0
4
$277,457
25

Michelle Wie
6
0
6
$700,284
*

* Wie, who has finished no worse than a tie for fifth in her six events, is not an LPGA member so she does not appear on the money list. Her earnings would rank her 14th.

you see that everyone but Michelle has played in at least 15 events and Michelle has won $700,284 in 6. This comes out to:
Average per event
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714

THAT does not count as outperforming to me. Brittany complains that Michelle should play on the LPGA tour, but she cannot until 2008 due to her age. She is outperforming the other "young guns" by a margin of more than 2 to 1

Alex said:
Lack of any wins and many missed cuts may be a sign of mediocrity for some, but not for Bub---, Michelle Wie.
short term memory problems are an ominous sign. When Michelle starts winning, ya'll will get sick of her winning.

I am with Florida Mike. Why do you think I posted the article? Did you know that Brittany won 60 out 100 events she entered. See, Michelle needs to win once in the next four years to match Brittany--a dominant player at junior level. Pretty tall order, ya think?

Alex_fan, I see where you are coming from.

George, How many other high profile golfers do you know who have given consistently to charities the way Michelle has. I am not just talking about the $500,00 given to Hurrikcane Katrina victims the day after her endorsment checks cleared. Everywhere she goes she looks to help with the local charities. I do not "worship" Ms Wie, but I did point out to my daughter the Katrina donation as an example. We live where Hurricane Ivan kicked butt, so it made a big impression with her. To those whom God has been kind, should be kind in their turn.

I keep hearing how Michelle has raised the bar in the women's game. I was always under the impression that one had to first clear the bar before raising it. Was I alone in watching the replay of Laura Davies shanking her tee shot on 16 to the tune of 60 yards. This is the dominating hall of famer who Michelle so valiantly tied, 42 years old, overweight, at least 10 years past her prime and capable of hitting shots that would have a 20 handicapper throwing his clubs.

If Wie fans are satisfied with her top 5's, fine, but Michelle, Nike, Omega and B.J. expect more, namely wins. For over 3 years now the media, and Michelle's team have told us that a win was just around the corner for her, followed by domination of the LPGA tour and then finally conquest of the men's game. We are still stuck on phase one of the Michelle Wie world domination plan, "I'm getting really close" has replaced any bravado she once possesed. If her goal is to be a top 5 LPGA golfer then congratulations you're there Michelle, if you're goal is to known as the best player to never win anything, then by all means you have reached the summitt, but if you're goal is to live up to your own hype and be something more then a contender you have a lot of work to do.

Ford, I watched her working the other day in France. I expect to watch her working again Saturday. (I will be working myself during the telecasts Thurs, & Fri) I would love to see her win (I haven't forgot the bet), but She has done superbly this year and my advice for people new to this discussion is forget the hype and hoopla and just watch her play.

Florida Mike--You have made an excellent point. Michelle should be commended for her charitable contributions. I want to make one thing perfectly clear, being critical of Michelle Wie's game or poking fun at her win total is in no way a personal attack on Michelle Wie the person. By all accounts she seems to be a nice young lady, a little like, ya know ditzy, but nice and generous just the same.

"
If Wie fans are satisfied with her top 5's, fine, but Michelle, Nike, Omega and B.J. expect more, namely wins. For over 3 years now the media, and Michelle's team have told us that a win was just around the corner for her, followed by domination of the LPGA tour and then finally conquest of the men's game. We are still stuck on phase one of the Michelle Wie world domination plan, "I'm getting really close" has replaced any bravado she once possesed. If her goal is to be a top 5 LPGA golfer then congratulations you're there Michelle, if you're goal is to known as the best player to never win anything, then by all means you have reached the summitt, but if you're goal is to live up to your own hype and be something more then a contender you have a lot of work to do."

Is the reason you don't like Wie is the hype? Because that's all I'm hearing. There's something worse than hype; and that's anti-hype. It's people who say they can't stand someone or something because it is hyped. It happened to Tiger as well.

I am not saying Wie will become anything for definate. But the chances are that she will. When you come second at sixteen, then one would presume you can win when you are older. Maybe it doesn't pan out like that. But it probably will.

Ford, I appreciate your distinction in your last post, I have commented once b4 that while me and you disagree on this subject, you have always kept your comments at an intelectual level. The vitriol and disrespect that some of the others who post, was what got me responding to these blogs in the first place. I also do not give in to the concept that Michelle Wie is "God's Gift to Golfing" either. She is a "Phenom" in all aspects of the word and is just now honing her game to play at the professional level. She has been a Pro golfer for less than a year and I feel people have picked her apart mercilessly for inadequate reasons. Let the girl dream and let the girl play. Time will take care of the rest.

Ford, I as well appreciate that your arguments at least have some basis
of reason and that you don't stoop to base, vulgar remarks.
However I still have to disagree with you. She has raised the
bar for women's golf. She competed brilliantly this past week
against the best. If you belittle her performance by taking
swipes at Davies, what
does that say about Annika or Lorenas game? What is precisely
the amazing thing to me about Michelle is that for the past year she has been
in the top 5 about every tournament. No other women or man can say that.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that last statement. Is that not an amazing feat,
and I know you hate to hear it but even more so for a 16 year old
high school girl who has to go back to class in a couple weeks.

Chris, since you are so sure that Michelle Wie is incapable of winning, why not put your money where your mouth is? I'll even give you favourable odds. Let's see now:

I'll give you 10-1 odds that she never wins an LPGA tournament (barring serious injury). In fact, I will make the deal even sweeter, I'll give you 10-1 odds against her winning before she turns 21. Put up $200 and I'll put up $2000. Just contact me via my email address that comes along with this post any we'll sort out the arrangements. Should be the easiest $2000 you ever made, right?

I'm serious about the offer. Are you a man of your convictions or does your blog contain nothing but weasel words as most of us suspect?

Ford. don't hold back. Wie "WILL" win a bunch of tournaments, and soon! And when she starts, there's no telling how many records she will break. She is already breaking records for her performance at her age. Evian masters was her most solid round yet. She had three good rounds. People forget that it took a hell of a round by Karie to beat her, and a lucky putt at 17 ... but even Tiger says "you need some luck to win". It also took a hell of a last round by Karrie at the Kraft Nabisco to beat Wie. And ofcourse again, a lucky "holing it from the fairway" on 18 for an eagle. Granted MW made an inexperienced poor decision to chip instead of putt and ran it by to end up a stroke out of the playoff.

I will also note that as luck or lack of it goes, her second shot into the par 5 18th roled gently around the back of the green and could have easily turned toward the hole as much as it drifted off the back. You can't fault the girl for trying. The ball will start bouncing her way .... but then the Fords, and Alex's of the world, oh1 dont forget George, will cry foul! foul! she was just lucky. Did U see that?!

Guys, she's banked more money than the Paula's and Morgan or Brittneys in just 6 events for the 15 or so they have played.

in the background.

Cry foul, call her lucky, utter lame excuses...Not me my friend. I'll leave that to you and to her legions of fans who after every tournament do exactly what you just did in your latest blog. Read your email again, you offer a half a dozen excuses why Michelle has not won yet and then you have the nerve to warn me not to "cry foul" if she ever actually wins. Wie's fans are the only ones offering up any excuses for her near misses and obvious shortcomings in the clutch. If and when she wins I will congratulate her, regradless of the circumstances and say it's about time.

Is there any way to format this blog so I don't have to
move the horizontal slide bar back and forth to read each line?
Same problem on Dot Wong's blog.

Ford--After shanking the ball on 16, Laura Davies hit a great second shot over the trees.
But great shot or not, some people might say Laura Davies was lucky to wind up with the
shortest birdie putt on the hole(and one on the same line as the other two so she had two
great reads before she had to putt.}

This guy Baldwin is such a one-trick pony. He realizes people read him only because he bashes Michelle Wie. Not for his insight (none), writing skill (none), or humor (less than none). So, he realizes he has this good thing going only until Michelle wins enough that his stupid rants attacking a 16-year old girl become even more irrelevant than they are now.

I guess, though, that I'm playing his game by even being here.

I guess I can't help it, Baldwin is like a train wreck or other disaster, and draws people like any other bizzare occurrence.

In a year he'll be either gone, or his readership will be back down to the internet equivalent of single digits.

Enjoy your readership now, it won't be here for very long.

Ghet Rheel--

I get a decent format FOR A MOMENT, which then shifts to the horrible one.

PEOPLE PLEASE USE THE ENTER KEY TO FORMAT YOUR LINES
LIKE I AM DOING, LIKE GHET RHEEL AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS ARE DOING.

THANK YOU.

Jim C, this just started today, so I was unaware that others were having the same problem
I wonder where Alex went? Intelligent conversation seems to shut him up!

I am sorry folks, I suspect that the poor formating has something to do
with me posting that yahoo picture link earlier. I tried to paste it in
Site/Url area but it was not accepted. I don't mind if the blogmaster removes it.
Again, my apologies if that was the reason.

On August 1, 2006 Golf writer Chris Baldwin wrote:

"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."

That quote will follow you for a long, long time. I've pasted it and
saved it. I'd encourage other Wie supporters to do the same.

Seems to me you've made a pretty steep bet with all your current
and future readers - you know, like your credibility as a golf
analyst.

To predict anyone to win would be a bad bet,
even if you put your money on #1 Annika.
The fact is that when Michele is 2nd
or 3rd, she is soundly beating 99% of the best
women golfers in the world. To do this every time
you enter a tournament is phenomenal.
You can always go back and look a particular shot and
say that is the one that either won or lost a tournament.
The thing is everyone has some lucky breaks, and
some unlucky ones. Look at the bounce off the tree
for MW on the 18th on friday.The best 4 rounds wins.
This tends to average out the lucky from the unlucky.
Look at Michelle's average round score for the year.
That is a very compelling statistic. Her consisitency
makes her the best women golfer on the tour at this time.
That is in my humble opinion!

I'm new to this blogging thing. Is Chris Baldwin really
a golf analyst? To be a analyst don't you need to actually
know something about the game and make some reasonably
sound observations as objectivley as possible. His blog is just
another opinion by one of Michelle's cynical naysayers.
To whom I might add, have every right to post their opinions.
But to call yourself an analyst, I guess ESPN is just having a hard
time getting in touch with me because I guess with your credentials,
that makes me qualified to be their programing director.

Alex,

Your sarcasm in your posts adds nothing positive to the blogs.
You would be better off just trying to make decent points.

Compliments to Alex for one thing though.
He used to flounder over everything Under Par said, and when Alex made
a comment, he would usually, look for reassurance from under par in every comment
he made. At least Alex has got a little more independant and isn't looking to
Under Par so often for reassurance.

What happened to Under Par anyway?

Attention all gutless Wie Warriors! I've outright predicted a runaway victory for Bubbles at the Weetabix. How say ye? Will she thrash the field? Or will it be "I'm getting real close?" Come on, none of this "if she has her iron game going" or "maybe the wind will affect her" or "if her putting holds up." Come on, guys! You've built her up to the high heavens, now put your money where your mouth is! I say she wins in a walk. One-Putt, putt4par, Florida Mike, what do you predict? And hold your comments about me. This thread is all Bubbles.

Hey guy who runs this board.

Can you fix the text wrap thing, because when someone posts a web address,
or a long line, it just makes the thing really wide.

wideeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Get the point?
Fix it because that has happened in a number of blogs.
And it makes them annoying for reading, when scrolling left and right.

Fix it please.




http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sp/072206britishopen/im:/060801/483/04321d80429c437dab3313d9cc305581;_ylt=Anty9t3Hgpwi4Ib83jrB1SDNaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--

Alex,
I predict Wie will put in another good performance.

I also predict she will put in a performance that would win many tournaments.
Annika will want number 11 though and if she is playing well, then she is the favourite.

Florida Mike, About ten hours ago, your only comment was "You guys are tiresome." Since then you've posted about a dozen times and even asked where I was. Could it be that we are not so tiresome after all?

Johnny N, So your prediction is that Bubbles will have a good performance? How courageous of you! I'll bet that you will also predict that the Atlantic Ocean will be damp.

Win, place or show, that is the question.
Here's the deal though, you have better odds
of Michelle placing in the top 3 than anyone.
Michell, Karrie, Se Ri,Annika, then Lorena. In that order.
Fine, are you happy Alex, I'm out dangling on a limb.

The thrust of Chris's article (and to be fair, articles by a number
of other golf bloggers) is clear. It is an unfounded slam against a brilliant young talent.

It is that:
"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."

To say that it is "a bad bet" to the predict a winner of any single event
is dead right. Team sports usually compete weekly on a one-on-one basis. Golfers
play against a field. This week, Wie will compete against about 150 of the world's best
golfers. As you point out, she will need some lucky breaks to win - as will
the winner if someone else takes the title.

The monumental achievement for Wie is being "in the hunt" week after week. She
is "in position" on a regular basis. A high-school probabilities class should provide
sufficient background to predict that a brilliant young golfer who is learning more
of "the ropes" each week, will likely soon get the good fortune needed win.

At a time when the LPGA is stumbling, the LPGA brain-trust searches for strategies
to keep Michelle out. John Nash won a Nobel prize for his Game Theory. He pointed out
in the "prisoner's dilemma" game, that "self-interest hurts everyone". In other
words - what do you do with a Golden Goose? You try to kill it, of course.

Bloggers should be in a unique position to read the will of the people. A quick look at the number of
comments in the travelgolf blogs, shows strong interest in Wie, while little or none for other
topics. Golf has a sudden tidal wave of broad-based interest in the game. The smart thing to do would be
roll with that wave. The predictable (game theory) reaction is occurring in board-rooms, PGA offices
(with noteable exceptions), LPGA offices, and bloggers brains as we speak.

Ghet Rheel, In answer to the question "Will Bubbles win the Weetabix?", I will assume that your answer is a definite maybe.

Alex

Yes, precisely.

Ghet Rheel,

I agree. I don't see a "definite maybe" as a bad thing. It's better than "most likely not" or "maybe if someone dies." A definite maybe means they are actually in contention rather than not even breaking the top 10. If we knew definitely who would win absolutely, why would we bother to watch any sporting event? Of course there is enjoyment in observing the skill and performance, but in the end it is about finding out who wins.

Only a degenerate communist could be a Michelle Wie fan.

*****
George, How many other high profile golfers do you know
who have given consistently to charities the way Michelle has.
*****

A couple of easy-to-find examples:

2006 - Paula Creamer, in conjunction with IMG Academies, is giving back to the local junior golf community
by offering two, one-year golf scholarships and 40 week-long golf scholarships
to the David Leadbetter Golf Academy (DLGA) for area kids participating in the First Tee of Sarasota/Manatee program.


2005, Mitchell company tour for champions - Creamer and three other golfers donate $100 per birdie in tourney to charity.

Paula also did several first-tee events, giving of her own time. She also participated in some charity golf events.

Also note this link from a July 20th article:
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/sports/15078393.htm

Finally, go to the charitable giving section at the LPGA web site. You'll be set straight there.

I realize what others do is not as wonderful as St. Michelle the Merciful handing out an apple slice,
or making a carefully staged, highly publicized donation to hurricane victims right after she announced her big contract.
Then again, only one female golfer in the world got $20 million over two years from Nike/Sony.

I do not slight Michelle here. I only point out how you are just the latest to be duped by the hype machine that pumps out PR for Michelle.
You doubtless thought Michelle was the only one giving time/money worth mentioning to charity.
But why should you be blamed? Ignorance is bliss, after all, happy poster. And saints like Michelle the Merciful are few and far between.

-George

No matter how much you complain, yap, and dis her like the drag queen in heat that you are about Ms. Wie, you still watch don't you?

you may give yourselve what ever reason why you watch but you watch anyway. That alone jusitfies the endorsements.

Bottom line is that she is doing something you will NEVER do or hope to do, no one will pay money to watch you play ever, no one will ever give you an exemption ever, and no one will

ever want you to endorse any thing of value.

How many people repley to this blog? 50? 100? say even 200, complared to the support, admiration that Ms. Wie does get? there are over 300 that I known of in my son's school alone.

The real bottom line is this: How much did you make this weekend you dumb shit?

Bold prediction ... stated with conviction! Alex pay attention. You can
pin this above your bed lest U forget.

After a brief peak into the annuls of recent golf history, Bubbles, at 15
last year, beat the whole field in the last three days of the
weetabix tournament. She opened with a 75.

With her experience to date she will have a decent opening round and
proceed to lead into the fianl round. Annika will mount a charge but
to no avail. The last group will have Paula Creamer
(it's about time) Wie, and Lorena Ochoa. Karrie will not be in
contension this week Lorena will perform her classic choke and fade.

It will be a duel between Paula and Wie on the back nine ......

Paula will bogie the 419 yard par 4 17th, Wie will par it and birdie the
18th to win by 3 strokes. Paula's problem will be the pressure to prove
a point against Wie. Wie knowing she owns her in the last 5 tournaments will
be cool as ice!

Are you happy now Alex? That thud you heard was the guntlet buddy.

PS: "fianl" is really "final"
and "guntlet" was really "gauntlet"

I know the english majors still lurk.

I think Laura summed up what we all feel about bloggers and posters who dismiss Michelle's level of play:

Telegraph Online UK

Davies and Wie show mutual respect
By Lewine Mair

As for Davies, she sees Wie as the proverbial breath of fresh air. "Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous," she said in these columns yesterday.

Now this comes from one of her contemporaries playing right alongside her in tournaments and I believe she hit the nail right on the head.

So think about it Chris, Tim, Ron, Dot, Ford, George, Judge or Alex. Which category do you fall into?

Jenney

Nicklaus won 20% of the time, Woods wins 25%, Anika wins 30%.
So, with the winningest player in the game "losing" 7 out of ten times,
a "definite maybe" is as good as it gets.

Here are some stats from Florida Mike, Johnny N., and WieWarrior.

Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714

How is Paula Creamer doing?
Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.

Scoring Average:
1) Wie 70.06
2) Webb 70.62
3) Sorenstam 70.75
4) Ochoa 70.81
5) Pak 71.25
6) Creamer 72.25

Bashers, where's your statistical support that Wie isn't "right
on track" for winning, and winning often? Lyndon Baines Johnson
had a phrase for lost political causes. When asked how strong the support was
for an upcoming bill in congress, LBJ said, "Its thin boys, thinner than
piss on a rock."

Bashers, statistical support for your view of Wie's prospects is thinner yet.

Again:
On August 1, 2006 Golf writer Chris Baldwin wrote:
"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."

Chris, are you really that clueless? Or do you think we are.

Ghet_Rheel, for "real" you outdid yourself on this one. "applause". I'll add
one thing, Wie is getting her low scoring average on the tougher courses, most being majors
where scores tend to be higher.

I am waiting to see what the bashers have as a rebuttal. The numbers
don't lie.

Heh heh heh!

"Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]

Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714

I think it is important to note this average is nearly $25,000 per event higher than last season for Michelle. In 2005 Paula averaged about $30,000 less per event while playing in 25 events. Ah continuous improvement.

If I remember correctly, I earned $116,564 less per week from my high school part time job. Damn that 69 GTO would have MINE! I wonder what Michelle will be driving to school this year?

One-Putt

Please check my math, but at the rate Paula is gaining on Michelle (in per-event
earnings), Paula should catch up with Michelle in about January of the year 2021.
[5K gain per year - $73,219 differential] -

Thought you guys might enjoy this... seems that MW is firing back (ie..taking pot shots) at unnamed players...

Q: How frustrating is it to finish so high every week, but not be able to break through for a win yet?
MICHELLE WIE: Well, you know, obviously it's very frustrating right after you finish playing. It's like,
oh my God, I was close again.

If you look at the overall if you look at overall year, I feel like this is the best I've ever played.
And obviously I wish I could have won a couple of events, but hey, at least I'm not winning one event and
then missing the cut in another. I'm consistently being up there. I'm consistently playing good golf.

I think a win is coming. It's just depends on how lucky you are that week and how good you're playing.
I feel like I'm playing very solidly. You know, obviously it's been a little bit frustrating that I haven't
been able to, you know, go up to the next step but I feel like it's happening. It's not because I'm lacking
anything. It's just when you look back on a week, it's just a shot here, a shot there. By doing this, I feel
I'm learning how to win. I feel like I've been playing the best I ever have, you know, consistent wise.

..... so much her not stooping to the level of others..... Interesting... very interesting....

Ghet Rheel... you are making a huge assumption that when MW starts to play a full schedule that
she is going to keep her pace of top 5 finishes going... the same thing goes for stroke average.
Once she plays a full schedule, and at the end of that year we can see what the scoring
averages are... then it will be time to boast or hang your head.

One-Putt, I fall into the category of people who don't give a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think. I still have not yet figured out how questioning Michelle's ability to win brands someone crackers or jealous.

Ghet Rheel, Statistics and even math can sometimes tell a confusing story. To take your analogy to it's logical conclusion, one could just as easily say that the way Bubbles is gaining on Paula in the number of wins, it will take her.....beyond forever to catch her. Of course, a true Wie Warrior knows that Bubbles gets off the schneid this weekend, don't we?

Ford comment:
I fall into the category of people who don't give
a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think
______________________________________________

So what you don't care about what Nancy Lopez has to say then.

Bashers

These stats are worth repeating:

Here are some stats from Florida Mike, Johnny N., and WieWarrior.

Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714

How is Paula Creamer doing?
Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.

Scoring Average:
1) Wie 70.06
2) Webb 70.62
3) Sorenstam 70.75
4) Ochoa 70.81
5) Pak 71.25
6) Creamer 72.25

Military_Golfer points out Michelle's scoring average comes mostly
from the tough "Majors" courses. When she begins playing a full schedule
(adding easier layouts) her scoring average will further improve.

Another of John Nash's Game Theory tenets is, "where actions defy logic, there
is a prevailing self-interest". So, a sixteen-year old golf star is rewriting the
record books, and yet the Bashers wail, "SHE'LL NEVER WIN". In the face of the stats, Bashers,
you'd have to be CRUSHINGLY STUPID to think she can't win. Bashers, I have never met
ANYONE that crushingly stupid. So, in the only alternative, what's your prevailing self-interest?

Comment from: Johnny N. [Visitor]
Ford comment:
I fall into the category of people who don't give
a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think
______________________________________________

So what you don't care about what Nancy Lopez has to say then.
-------------------------------------------------------

They only care if it' detrimental to MW, you know that Johnny.
Same as JR spinning Wies comment about not missina the cut, etc.

They will all read whatever they want into any comment made about/by/for MW.
And cheer loudly at any negative comments. It's all about the hype you know !!
And we all know that's bullsh*t too.

Ghet Rheel, I honestly believe that Bubbles will win some day, maybe even this weekend, but "She's re-writing the record books"is going a bit too far, don't you think? Just which records has she re-written? Don't count the number of sponsors' exemptions or missed cuts in men's event

I have an idea for measuring stroke averages.
It doesn't take strength of field into account.
but it does take course difficulty into accout.

Compare a player's score to Field: the winner--or the
second place finisher if the player was the winner.

Doing this for Annika for her great year last year.
I got a Field + 26, but giving Annika a -1 for one playoff,
whiche she won, it would become Field + 25 over 70 rounds of stroke play.

This would be a per round average of Field + -0.371
if we ignore the playoff, which Annika won,
or Field + 0.357 if we make the adjustment.

This year Michelle Wie is Field + 7 for 19 rounds of stroke play.
That is an average of Field + 0.368 or very close to
what Annika did last year.

re: records for first-year pros -

Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.

Wie will win soon enough. Only her Bashers have their panties in a bunch
as to when.

Attention Wie Warriors! There has been a new, revolutionary statistic just formulated to judge the abilty of golfers. It's really something you might understand . It's called the NUMBER OF WINS! What a novel idea! Very easy to comprehend for most people.

Ghet_Rheel, the rebuttal from the bashers seems tame by recent standards!

Alez, Wie will win soon.

Bashers in general - As much as you are bagging on Wie Warriors, I have the feeling
you are waiting eagerly for tomorrows "tee-off", and I don't mean the Buick Open.

It's funny how Wie seems to bring even the basher crowds for someone who
is "soooo overated."

----------------------------------------------
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
re: records for first-year pros -

Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.

Wie will win soon enough. Only her Bashers have their panties in a bunch
as to when.

------------------------------------------------------------



2006-08-02 @ 12:35


The whole problem with Baldwin, Alex and the whole slamming/bashing/bitching
crew is that they are like most children. American society has raised expectations
so that the aforementioned group demand instant gratification and when they don't
get it, they whine and snivel like spoiled brats.

It's all everyone elses fault. You see, as far as they are concerned, MW is a
machine that should produce instantaneous results to match those ingrates expectations.
Besides, where else can Alex show of his snide mouth anonymously with out fear of retribution?
And then have the guts to chide others for being snide. That was one of your more humorous posts, Alex.

Ahhh, Alex, you finally came back to your sense,
admitting Michelle will win. I'm back in your fan
club.

Ford and George, stop ending your nasty comments with
"I do not slight Michelle here" or "this is not
personal attack on Michelle." Who do you think you
are fooling? What you have done is nothing but those.

George, you just looooooooooove Creamer. We got it.
But nobody cares about the overrated "the pink panther."

Alex_fan---Correctly stating her win total is not a nasty comment, just as questioning her ability to win is not an attack on her, it is simply an opinion, one which as long as she continues to fail to seal the deal has quite a bit of merit. If I were comment on Michelle's gawky appearence, her unusually small mouth, her tendency to dress like a teen hooker or her verbal skills, which make her sound like a stuttering and stammering child giving a book report then you would have a point.

One characteristic of you Wie-zeals is that you're quite obtuse. Of course we understand that Bubbles will win, just not on the men's tour. It's amazing how you can't understand a very simple position, which, by the way, is not to be confused with a veritable simpleton's position. That's yours.

Putt4Par.... I wasnt spinning her comments... I even
included the entire section so it wouldnt be taken out
of context.... she said it... Now, when others say
things like this about MW.. you always go on and on about
the negative venom they put out... well, how about some
of the same condemnation here!!!!! all you have to be
is consistent....

Ghet Rheel, You've mentioned a lot of
"records" set by Bubbles as a first-year pro. Since she isn't an LPGA member, where are her records written? Where are these "record" books? How can she have set a first-year record when her first year as a pro isn't over yet? Isn't that like saying that a guy that went 4 for 4 in his first major league baseball game has set a record for a rookie batting average? (That would be 1.000 for you Wie Warriors, as opposed to Bubbles' winning average of 0.000)putt4par, it's a darn good thing that you Wie Warriors don't demand instant gratification. I don't demand it either. But I do believe that a win in 40+ odd tournaments isn't too much to ask from someone touted to be the savior of women's golf if not golf in general

Alex

Wie is seven events into her pro career, smashing records, and we're supposed
to get into a Big-Frazzled-Frenzie about winning NOW? Come up with another tactic.
That one is stale. Your quote that Michelle, "...will win some day, maybe even
this weekend", puts you on both sides of your own issue. So you're wrong either way.

Does anyone else smell a classic Edelman-style PR bash campaign?

Comment from: Military_Golfer [Visitor]
Ghet_Rheel, the rebuttal from the bashers seems tame by recent standards!

Alez, Wie will win soon.

Bashers in general - As much as you are bagging on Wie Warriors, I have the feeling
you are waiting eagerly for tomorrows "tee-off", and I don't mean the Buick Open.


I'm neither a basher or warrior, never will be either. But what I am not is
eagerly awaiting some more lackluster coverage from the networks. 2 hours
aitime thursday and friday, and 1 1/2 hour on the weekend. What a joke.
The final of a womans major and all we will get is the final 6 holes on the
weekend. And this is with the woman who is supposed to take the LPGA to another level
and who by the way is playing extremely well. The tape delay of the Evian
was a total farce. I like many follow the PGA mostly. The only time I watch the LPGA
is when big names are in contention and it doesn't coincide with a big PGA event.
At least we get live coverage, and all day coverage of our majors. The lack of a
television deal is killing this tour. CBS , NBC, and The Golf Channel all have comitted
big dollars to the PGA for the rights. No one is interested in doing so for the
LPGA. ABC is the only major network left and their 1 1/2 hours of coverage each day
of a major shows their interest. Not much. Golf is not a big ratings drawing. The only
time they get respectable ratings is if Tiger is in contention for a major. The PGA
draws small audiences usually, followed by the Champions tour and then the LPGA. The
Nationwide draws comparable numbers to the LPGA. And this will not be changing,
the networks do much better with other sports. I have been watching golf on TV
since the 60's. While the LPGA has grown in that time, it has grown nothing
like the PGA has, even before Tiger. From their television deals the PGA puts
65% of that money into their purses. The LPGA has to buy airtime and rely
on selling ads. And not to mention the major corporate sponshorship dollars that go
to the PGA. Noplayer on the LPGA has had Tiger-like impact. Nancy Lopez probably came the closest.
You can thank her for what coverage you do have now. Annika, arguably one of the
greatest women players of all time, didn't affect this. Michelle Wie is this tours best
chance. Instead of working against her, the LPGA needs to embrace her and get her
playing full time as a member. For unless they secure a TV deal, it will always get
2nd rate coverage like they are this weekend.

Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Putt4Par.... I wasnt spinning her comments... I even
included the entire section so it wouldnt be taken out
of context.... she said it...
Ok, if what you are saying is true, who was she reffering to?
In order to make comments about others, she would need a specified target?
It appeared she was commenting on her own game, nowhere in that article did she mention anyone else.

You were spinning, same as you all spin about how you aren't making personal comments
about MW. You like to spin it both ways to make yourself appear unbiased
when there is no chance of that at all.

The only way you could do that is to be as uniased with Morgan, Paula, Brittany and
all the rest of the LPGA players that have made comments about Wies performance.

Alex, your whole schtick is about elitism and instant gratification.
What is really funny is that most of your posts would give you the appearence of being
a teenager with a teeagers snotty mouth.

Smails, your inability to communicate an idea or posit an argument without
your belittling and childish remarks, renders all your arguments meaningless.

re: Randy Hebert

"Michelle Wie is this tours best chance. Instead of working
against her, the LPGA needs to embrace her and get her
playing full time as a member."

Couldn't agree with you more. If Bivens can't/won't do it, the LPGA
needs new leadership. Bivens could become a hero by picking up the phone
and gettin SONY, Nike, Rolex, and William Morris on a conference call. That group
could package the LPGA for a decade of success. Sponsors have one demand of TV
programmers - mass audience viewership.

Tiger means mass TV viewers. Wie means mass TV viewers. No other golf figures come close.
Watch the Wie galleries this weekend. Wie is big-time box office. If the old guard
balks, Bivens should dump 'em. If the old guard is smart, they'll join the parade. If they
act soon enough, they could lead the parade. John Nash (Game Theory) would bet against the
old guard leading the parade.

Judge Smailes, of course I'm a simpton wasting my time on this blog. So are you.
Ford, thanks for correcting my mistake.

*****
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
I think Laura summed up what we all feel about bloggers and posters
who dismiss Michelle's level of play:

Telegraph Online UK

Davies and Wie show mutual respect
By Lewine Mair

As for Davies, she sees Wie as the proverbial breath of fresh air.
"Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous,"
she said in these columns yesterday.

*****
1putt,

the stupidity of your posts argues otherwise, but again I ask:
Can you possibly be this thick?

I'll spell it out for you and the other Wie Warrior bozos one final time. I hope you
see this, and having seen it, I can only pray you have brains to comprehend this. But
my hope is faint.

So here it goes, my view on Wie and her lackwit acolytes. (One more time)

1. Michelle is very talented. How talented she is will be shown by time.
Her results will dictate how she will be assessed.

2. There is not one Wie Warrior who can tell us for sure what kind of person she is.
I certainly don't claim to be able to do so. The only thing we know for sure is how she
does on a golf course and whether she wins or loses. The real Michelle Wie is known only
to her family and friends. You don't know her. You only see the public persona.

3. The real source of the controversy -- and entertainment -- on these blogs
is the Wie Warriors.

You dolts are straight out of fandom central casting. You are the kind of numbskulls
who become the butt of jokes even at Star Trek - Star Wars - ComicCon conventions.
Your paranoia, thin skins, fury, hyper-sensitivity, drooling worship of an athlete is
the ultimate in silliness.

Got it? It's not about Michelle.
I actually couldn't give a rat's ass how she does.

The only thing that keeps me checking this site is to see who can post the next
moronic comment about Michelle: Baldwin, Wolfrum, Mario, 1-putt, Coulthard, Jenney, Golfer, et al

Right now it's a photo finish.

-George

Ghet Rheel, Now you've got Bubbles "smashing records." Whose records? Who owned these "records" before Bubbles smashed them? This is absolutely surreal. Bubbles hasn't won anything but she is
smashing records." Unbelievable.

Military_Golfer is obviously a communist agent. "Pay attention", we're on to you.

"Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
One-Putt, I fall into the category of people who don't give a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think. I still have not yet figured out how questioning Michelle's ability to win brands someone crackers or jealous."

Thanks for responding to the survey Ford and confirming you fall into both categories.

I'm sure you said the same things about Karrie Webb last season, overweight, over the hill.

Laura played her first tournament rounds with Michelle when she was 12. She was impressed with her game then and can see what level she is playing at now. Laura understands what it takes to play at the level Michelle is week after week, month after month, year after year.

Michelle may not have won an event yet and if you really analyze what is happening in the few events she does enter you find something interesting. When Michelle enters an event the level of play of those around her rises. She is becoming a catalyst for good play for those players that realize they had better get their wins in now.

Kathy Whitworth did not win until her third year on the tour and we know what happened after that first win, a women's record that still stands today.

In the five LPGA regular tour events Annika and Michelle have appeared in the same field, Annika has finished ahead of Michelle only once with her win at the US Women's Open.

Se Ri Pak, one time out of five events when she won the McDonald's LPGA.

Lorena Ochoa, one time out of six events at the KNC where she came in second after a playoff.

Karrie Webb leads the way by fininshing three times this year ahead of Michelle out of six events. The McDonald's where she finished second and wins at the KNC and Evian.

Paula Creamer, none.

Morgan Pressel, None.

Ay Miyazato, None.

Seon Hwa Lee the Rolex rookie of the year points leader, one time at the Fields open where she finished second after a playoff. In Major championships none of the rookie class have finished ahead of Michelle in the field.

It is fairly obvious to the players around Michelle they will have to step it up and play their best to finish ahead of her in the field. Some are up to the task and others are not.

Maybe you can't see it Ford but the ladies playing the LPGA tour get it. They had better get their wins in now, as there is a long dry spell visible on the horizon. Michelle has an eight year headstart at sixteen years old to gain a win compared to when Kathy Whitworth won her first event back in 1962. Michelle will have many wins by the time she is 24. Maybe she will get one this week.

Laura definitely "gets it" and has earned the right to say people who don't are crackers or jealous. If looks or age were a measure of a person's character, I would pick old and or fat every time, over thin and conceited.

George

In case you haven't noticed, neither your opinion nor mine carries
any weight whatsoever in the world of golf.

Laura Davies, on the other hand, is a respected figure in the game - and
a likely Hall of Famer. Her comment speaks volumes about her first-hand impressions
of Michelle to an international readership:

"Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous."
Laura Davies

Laura spent two days with Michelle at Evian under pressure-packed conditions. George,
you learn alot about people on a golf course. Laura's impressions are significant. She
knows of what she speaks.

Classy lady, Laura

So here goes it, my view on Ms Wie and her obtuse detractors:

1. Michelle is very talented. How talented she is will be shown by time.
Her results will dictate how she will be assessed.

2. I can only go by her public persona, which for her age is professional, polite, and
charming

3. The real source of the controversy -- and entertainment -- on these blogs
is the Wie detractors.

You idiots are straight out of a muppet skit, you remind me of the 2 old grumps that
could not find the good in anything. Your insipid attacks against this young lady, despite
all the evidence to the contrary is contemptable. At least Ford and some of the others keep
these discussions at a respectful level.

I rarely watched the LPGA before Michelle Wie started playing and do so now because it causes me the
same enjoyment that I got when Tiger Woods first started on the PGA. I agree wholeheartedly on the
point that the LPGA is missing the boat on this. The galleries surrounding Michelle Wie has been larger
than that of any other female golfer in any match this year. This should tell you that hype or not, if the LPGA
wants to improve their lot in life they would do well to start wooing Ms Wie.

George I have you down for Crackers. Thanks for responding.

Alex, I'm afraid you have scored well in both categories as Ford did, so I will log you down as Crackers and Jealous. If it has never been done before it must be historical. Thanks for responding.

Monkey Brain I have you logged in as "Insane", a new category assigned just for you. Thanks for the unsolicited response.

I'm still waiting for a few responses, so I can log their choices into the crackers or jealous data base. Hopefully we won't get any more responses from posters who drag their knuckles on the ground to stay upright.

Alex

You tell me you are a 62 year-old "Junior Partner" in
a small law firm (your web link still says you're a self-employed software
designer); so, either way, I'll try to explain it to you in small
words, one more time.

re: records for first-year pros -

Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.

If you and the LPGA are too dense and self-absorbed to recognize these
records, I can't help ya.

Judge Smails, I've often wondered if it is possible for people to be as dense as the Wie Warriors pretend to be. It has been explained to these birds a hundred times that Bubbles undoubtedly will win against the girls but has no chance against the PGA pros. But it doesn't seem to assuage their insanity. And it doesn't matter to these crackpots if Bubbles ever wins an event or not. They have said as much. If hope springs eternal, undying faith in Bubbles is Old Faithful Geyser. These Wie Warriors are every bit as fanatical as those loonies on the talk shows that really believe that OJ Simpson is completely innocent and he will never stop searching for the guilty culprit.

Where's Jenney M?

C'mon Jenney, you're missing all the fun.

Alex, Now who really sounds like an OJ Loonie?

Wie Supporters, warriors, whatever:
Michelle Wie is playing better all the time
She has done better this year
She has won more money per event than any other LPGA player
She has a better stroke ave per 18 holes
She is the most consistant golfer in the LPGA this year
She is putting better
She is the ONLY 16 y/o player to ever compete at this level EVER
She will start winning at an astonishing level (ok this is an opinion)



Wie Detractors:
She hasn't won,
She will never win
She is all hype
She does not belong on the LPGA or PGA tours



believing in something despite all evidence to the contrary
is the mark of an OJ Loonie
The evidence of the supporters of Ms Wie is overwhelming
Objection sustained:

We were getting on so much better One-Putt, but you had to throw it all away. I deal in the present and presently Michelle has won nothing. So everytime I comment about her win total being stuck at 0 I am correct, everytime I say that her results don't match the hype, I am correct and everytime she falters down the stretch she proves my theories about her fragile mental state for me. You can cite as many stats as you like, list all the top 5 finishes your little fingers can type and qoute all the fat slobs you want, but all you are doing is attempting to predict the future with Michelle Wie. Her results are indeed impressive, and they would seem to indicate that she is on the right track to finally collect a win, but you never know and the longer she goes without one, the less certain her reign of domination is.

Being called crackers by a post traumatic, burnt-out former tunnel rat is the best laugh I have had today, so thanks for that. Jealous of a winless teen golfer...I think not.

Comment by Alex:
Attention Wie Warriors! There has been a new, revolutionary statistic
just formulated to judge the abilty of golfers. It's really
something you might understand . It's called the NUMBER OF WINS!
What a novel idea! Very easy to comprehend for most people.
________________________

Alex,
When discussing a girl, who is at an age, where nobogy has won, it's pretty
obvious what the comparisons give in terms of number of wins. That is an
equal number because who has won as a 16 year old on the lpga tour?

So since, number of wins is equal, you should go to other forms of measure.
Wie's results are magnificant. For anyone to have top 5's in the first 6 events
of a season, is brilliant.

I have another record for you---Tied fewest wins(single season and career)

How the mighty have fallen: I remember a time just a few short years ago when Wie fans predicted and awaited their saviors first win, soon to be followed by total world domination. You see, Michelle was doing exactly what she is doing now, placing in the top 5 of LPGA events and actually coming closer to making the cut in men's events. Fast forward a couple of years and her fans are still waiting for that first win, but now they celebrate her consistency and her top 5 finishes and warn the world of her imminent arrival. I have said it a million times if you are happy with Michelle Wie losing to the Karrie Webb's and Lorena Ochoa's of the world fine by me, but don't talk so confidently about her future since you are the very people who doubt her the most.

Comment by Ford:
everytime I say that her results don't match the hype, I am correct and everytime she falters down the
stretch she proves my theories about her fragile mental state for me.
______________________________

Ford, you have just proved yourself to be very stupid. Michelle has not faltered down the stretch one single time,
this season. Not once. She has been in contention in all the 5 stroke play events she has played, and she has been
in there and played well right to the climax of the tournament.

I am glad you made your stupid statement. While you have pretended on occasion, to be some sort of level headed chap,
who only doesn't like the Wiemaniacs, your statement shows how clueless you are.
Have you watched any of the tournament, or are you just a follower of the Baldie one, and just believe whatever his
blogs say?
At least your stupid comments should show anyone who had any sympathy to your position, that you are just as clueless
as Alex.
One good thing about Alex, at least he is a leader among the anti-Wie movement. Alex, well done on your new status, you
were once a lapdog for Under Par, and you have been exalted to one of the very head bashers. Your progress up the bashers
chain has been as quick as Morgan Pressel's progress down the world rankings lists.

____________________________
Ford comment:
How the mighty have fallen: I remember a time just a few short years ago when Wie fans predicted
and awaited their saviors first win,
___________________________

She will win soon. I predict before the end of the 2007 season. That's what I predicted before
the 2006 season started, and if she achieves that win before the end of 2007, that will be magnificant.




____________________________
Ford comment:
Michelle was doing exactly what she is doing now, placing in the top 5 of LPGA events and actually coming closer to
making the cut in men's events. Fast forward a couple of years and her fans are still waiting for that first win,
____________________________

Actually, Michelle was placing in the top 5 sometimes, but usually quite a distance from the winner.
8 shots behind Annika with 9 to play at the lgpa championship.
11 shots behind Paula with 1 round to play at the Evian.

Although Wie had some high finishes in 2005, they were very different to the 2006 placings.
In 2006, she has contended for titles and if she had got the luck that Karrie Webb did, such as chipping
in from the fairway, then Michelle would already have won a touranment.

There are 2 main kinds of people who post on these blogs.

1. Wie Warriers:
They support Wie with alot of dedication and obsession.

2. Wie Bashers:
They oppose Wie with alot of dedication and obsession.

As an intelligent man, I wonder what each side gains from their obsessions.
The Wie Warriers probably get great joy at watching and cheering on their favourite player.
What do the Wie Bashers get?

It is easy to understand the benefits that fans get from being fans of a player.
But what do bashers get?

Honestly, I think the Wie-bashers just like jerking the chains of the Wie-Warriors.

It's entertaining in a pro-wrestling-sort-of-way.

Comments from Johnny N

"One good thing about Alex, at least he is a leader among the anti-Wie movement. Alex, well done on your new status, you
were once a lapdog for Under Par, and you have been exalted to one of the very head bashers. Your progress up the bashers
chain has been as quick as Morgan Pressel's progress down the world rankings lists."

Good one! Cracked me up.

But what do bashers get?
----------------------------
Neck pain, high blood pressure, late night sleep, fights with a spouse for
spending hours arguing about a kid they absolutely think nothing of.

Ford, your comment on her results not matching the hype just don't hold water.
She is THE most consistent women golfer this year. She may not have won
but each time she comes in the top5 she is beating about a hundred plus
of the best women golfers in the world. (Evian only 70 or so)Nobody, not Annika
Lorena, Karrie, or Se Ri has golfed that consistently. To be # 2 or 3 out of a
hundred plus golfers every time you play is an amazing feat.
Here's one that should get your dander, i say she is golfing way beyond the hype.
No 16 year old, male or female has ever golfed this well.
Why is this view of reality called worshipful, delusional and all the other claims
you make about the Wie warriors?

Well they have decided to "tweak the Rolex Rankings" The article says it was due to intense
criticism due to Michelle Wie being ranked too high.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2537392

Now I could care less where they rank Ms Wie in the standings, it will make no
difference to my tuning in to watch her golf. It does seem to be another example
of the "Shoot self in Foot" attitude of the powers that be in women's golf in regards to
Michelle. This young lady is the most watched female golfer on the planet right now.
I don't care if you believe it is fluff and hype or genuine interest in a golf phenom, why
do they continue to try and distance themselves from the most popular golfer at their
tournaments?

Michelle had a two stroke lead with seven to play at the Evian and did not win, would you not consider that faltering? She twice has had opportunities to get into a playoff this year on the final hole and twice not been able to do it, once on a par 5 that she was just over the green in two on. For the last time, disagree with me all you want, but please try to refrain from calling me names. Calling people stupid is childish and does nothing for your argument.

If you believe that top 5's on the LPGA are good enough for Michelle, if you think she is content with this then by all means keep bragging, but you and I both know that that's not how Michelle has been marketed and packaged.

"It is easy to understand the benefits that fans get from being fans of a player.
But what do bashers get? "

They get a kick out of baiting people. It's one way of getting pleasure when your alone with your computer. There several levels of baiter, starting with junior baiter, then senior baiter, and if they are really good, they become masters.

Maui John,

Nobody is denying that she's an excellent golfer.
Nobody is saying that she's a terrible person.
She is one of the top five female golfers in the world.

That's it.

She doesn't belong on the PGA tour, she's proven that she can't hang.
She hasn't won on the LPGA tour, she's proven that she can't finish strong (two-shot lead
with seven to play, including two par-5's)

She will win, probably this year. Until then, it's completely reasonable to call her
"overhyped". Once she learns to win, it's just as reasonable to expect that she will
win frequently. If she doesn't, she will join the Gulbis' and Kournikova's of the world
who get more adulation than they deserve.

And it's the Wie-warriors inability to understand that basic paradigm that leads to the
"bashing".

Ghet Rheel, NOW I see your point. YOU have compiled these records and the LPGA doesn't recognize them. I was wondering since I looked up the LPGA records and found no reference to such stats. What my opinion is of such "records" compiled in half a season is of no significance. My only concern was, and still is, which player held these "records" before Bubbles "smashed" them. I eagerly await your explanation. Thank you.

Ford,
Karrie played her last 3 holes in 7 under and deservedly won the Evian Masters.
You can try to pin blame on anyone else, but the fact remains that Karrie was the deserving winner there.
Wie did not falter. She played the last holes in 3 under par. She had a -4 68 in the 4th round. That was very
good play and was equal to Karrie's round. Unfortunately it wasn't good enough to win, but it was very good and
was certainly not faltering in any way.

I will concede that if she never wins,we can call
her the Kournikova of womens golf. Lets let her get a high
school diploma first and start golfing full time
before we set her up for that. Call me whatever you will but,
it totally blows my mind that a full time student in High
School has taken a little time off from school and went golfing
with the best women in the world, AND KICKED MOST OF THEIR ASSES
EVERY TIME SHE GOES OUT. I love it, that is just so
great to watch. It's baffling why it bothers so many of you
that us fans are getting so much enjoyment from watching her.

Ford, Johnny N refers to Bubbles' play this year as brilliant and "magnificant"(sic) twice. Her play is about as brilliant and "magnificant" as Johnny N's spelling.

They get a kick out of baiting people.
------------------
Baiters turned into baited quickly. Just see the increasingly lengthy responses from so-called baiters. Even the master-wannabe, Alex, can't help it. But, hei, I am still a fan.

Judge Smails, Johnny N has come up with a comment that is being forwarded to the Alan Cup Committee as we speak. He posted this gem a little while ago: "She(Bubbles) will win soon. Before the end of the 2007 season." Now, that is a classic! He apparently is serious as most Wie Warriors are. He also says that this theoretical 2007 victory will be "magnificant" (sic). It just doesn't get any better than this!

Ford, you are incredible,(Notice the tongue firmly in the cheek here?). Face it, you argue from a position of no value. Karrie got another incredible drop on 17 in the last round of the Evian, that's how she won it. Same as she did at the Kraft. An eagle from 170 yards out on a wedge is pure luck.
Here's what she says about Michelle Wie. Latest interview in the LPGA website.

Q. Playing with her at Evian, what do you see in Michelle's game
KARRIE WEBB: I think she's definitely coming along. You know, it's only time before she wins. She's definitely very, very talented. And as far as you know physically talented, she's probably the most talented person out here as far as the gift that she's been given as far as her height and strength and everything like that. Because she's been given great coaching at such a young age, she's got all the shots.

And she's learning to win the hard way, where we learned to win golf tournaments as juniors and amateurs; she's getting that experience, just at the biggest level in the world.

So I think it's all good learning experience for her. I think that like I said, it's just a matter of time before she wins. And she could have won. She played very well on the last round last week and she could very easily have won. That's the thing with golf and what a lot of people don't understand is if you go through a few years where you win everything, people think it must be pretty easy to win. But it's such a fine line between winning and finishing second or even fifth, 10th.

You know, I have no doubt that she'll be a force to reckon with throughout the next ten, 20 years.

Q. Can you compare Michelle now with what you were like at that age?
KARRIE WEBB: There's no comparison. I was playing junior golf and represented Australia for the first time at 16 but I wasn't even thinking about turning pro or competing against the best women in the world, let alone competing against the men as well. I don't think there's many 16 year olds that you can really compare Michelle to.

And you think Wie faltered? You need glasses or a new brain, which ever is easier to install.

Maui John.... for hopefully the last time...it's not MW that
is the issue, it's her sometimes lunatic fans that make outlandish
statements that rile people... then after making statements
such as..."she's the best golfer today..." and MW loses, then the
excuses start.... it just gets very OLD!

intellegent man??? MW had a 2 shot lead, then promptly bogied,
had pars until the last hole and the received a birdie... for someone
whose "superior" length off the tee could only achieve par on one of
the shorter courses is beyond belief.... I only say this because of
her "fans" make such a big deal about how she is so much longer
than everyone else.....lastly, she played her last 7 holes
at even par... where do you get the 3 under from.... im talking 4th
round only...

Anyone notice Todd's bizarre post?

on the LPOGA Tour, she's proven she can't finish strong
(two shot lead iwth seven to play including two par 5s)

She will win, probably this year.
Until then it's completely reasonable to call her "overhyped".

Michelle has only two LPGA events left this year.
Todd is saying she will probably win at least one of the two(better than a 50% chance)

Last year I predicted that Michelle Wie would win at least two Majors this year
--at least half the Majors. That won't happen.

Bur now Todd is saying something similar will probably happen.
Michelle Wie will probably win at least half of her remaining events.
And even though he is making this claim, he seems to be calling he overhyped.

Intelligent Man
*Karrie played her last 3 holes in 7 under*

Let's see, Karrie got a par on 18. So did
she precede that with a couple of double eagles
that weren't on TV? Did she win by 5 strokes and
nobody told us?

Or is "Intelligent Man" supposed to be ironic?

-George

JR

Michelle Wie did play the last holes at 3 under at the Evian.
She played the last 10 holes at 3 under.
This number was chosen to make her finish look as good as possible.

If you want to make her finish look as bad as possible,
look at the last 6 or 7 and get EVEN.

Look at any other number of holes from one to ten and you get one under.

George

Obviously Intellligent Man meant to say that Karrie played the last
7 holes at 3 under, which is true. Knowing this to be the case, I did
not even notice the numbers were switched.

Congratulations for noticing the error.

Horray

Alex is back to true form. After cutting the apron strings and being his own man for a while, he has gone back to
his minders.

"Hey Judge Smails, hey what do you think of the Alan Cup, like that's the juvenile sort of thing that we set up to
rate people who comment" "hey Judge is it okay if I say stupid things about people, hey judge".

Alex, you have taken a backward step.
You should persevere, ask Judge Smails to cut the apron strings and allow you to run along like a good little boy. Come on
Alex, you can do it.

Maui John,
Even if she doesn't win, you can't really call Wiesy
the Kournikova of golf until at least she puts out her
own calendar and gets an FHM profile. Not to diss
Gulbis, but really she's the Kournikova of golf. Why
can't people get that straight? And even Creamer has
her own calendar.

Wiesy's people have obviously been negligent on this
matter, but wait... that's totally creepy, because
she's only sixteen years old.

I think once she wins something, she'll be the
Maria Sharapova of golf. After all, they both like
dangly earrings.

Wie can only enter two more tourneys this year?! Oh, sorry, I didn't know that.

Then she probably WON'T win. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

"Michelle had a two stroke lead with seven to play at the Evian and did not win, would you not consider that faltering? "

That's rather false logic. Take this situation:

Someone has a two stroke lead birdies 5 of 7 holes. The person behind them birdies 6 of the 7 and eagles another. Would the person in the lead then have faltered? Of course, Wie's situation isn't the same, but losing a two stroke lead with seven to play is not always faltering, as you seem to imply.

Johnny boy,

Alex is part of the Alan Cup committee and, as such, has decision making power with respect to which example of Wie-zeal lunacy will be deemed as having descended below the rest. I, on the other hand, operate in an unofficial capacity only. All I can do is bring to light stupidity that may have escaped the committee's notice.

Alex,

Yes, Johnny really stuck his neck out with that bold prediction. I predict that we're going to have a hurricane somewhere in the continental US before the end of the 2007 season.

Johnny N, I have absolutely no doubt that by the end of 2007, you will be standing on the dais when Michelle accepts her award for her first LPGA win.You will be receiving a reward also. The booby prize for being the dumbest, most clueless limey imbecile to ever grace the internet. And you will be "magnificant."

Alex

You have never explained (or corrected) your dual identity. That seems
dumb. Butcher, baker, candlestick maker? Until you clear this up you're
just a phoney to me. Please don't offer the Austin Powers defense again
("that's not BAG, man"). There is the possibility that you are merely stupid,
so keep I'll keep repeating the following until you "get it":


Alex

[In a Dave M. blog] You tell me you are a 62 year-old "Junior Partner" in
a small law firm (your web link still says you're a self-employed software
designer); so, either way, I'll try to explain it to you in small
words, one more time.

re: records for first-year pros -

Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.

If you and the LPGA are too dense and self-absorbed to recognize these
records, I can't help ya.

oops - typo on classic Austin Powers line - should read:

"That's not my BAG, man"

Ghet Rheel, Your posts are becoming as incoherent as those of your fellow Wie Warrior, Richard Cranium, formerly known as putt4par. It really doesn't matter what profession you think I have, just as it doesn't matter that I have solid evidence that you are a resident of a state asylum for the criminally insane. The wardens should never have allowed you inmates the use of a computer or any news articles about Bubbles. Such privileges just cause you poor souls to become more delusional than you already are.

Fraiser--Did you just make up a scenario and present it as your argument? You Wie fans are priceless.

Putt4Par--It's really very simple, Wie held the lead at the Evian with 7 holes to play if she did not falter she would have won. You are in a precarious spot here Putt, if you argue that Karrie Webb got lucky, you are undoubtably a whiner (remember your post reminding us all not to claim that Michelle got lucky should she ever win anything), if you say that Webb just played better(hich she has twice now down the stretch) you are once again acknowledging that the transcendant game of your saviour is not enough to beat the women. So which is it little man, did she falter, was it bad breaks and luck or is she simply not good enough?

I give Michelle full credit for her high finishes and consistency, but she has had ample oppurtunity to win and not only has she not won, but she seems to be inventing new ways to lose. Eventually you have to look at her near misses as an indication of a problem winning--Congratulations Michelle you have proven you can contend(we knew this 2 years ago), time to take the next step.

FLORIDA MIKE,
THANKS FOR POINTING OUT THE MONIES THAT MICHELLE HAS GIVEN TO CHARITIES. PRESENT COUNT IS AROUND $800,000 DOLLARS. NAME ONE LPGA GOLFER THAT HAS GIVEN 1/10TH THAT AMOUNT TO CHARITY. THEN YOU HAVE LOVABLE BRITTANY THAT DOESN'T PAY HER FATHER A CENT FOR CADDYING FOR HER, BUT, INSTEAD GIVES HIM A BANANA WHEN HE WAS STRUGGLING IN THE MATCH PLAY TOURNAMENT. HMMM, SO SHE WANTS TO RETIRE AT 35 HUH!! WOW, WHAT A REAL SWEETHEART OF A GIRL...LIKE I HAD POSTED BEFORE, "A SPOILED LITTLE SNOTNOSE GOLFER"

Alex must be losing ground - he is resorting to correcting grammar and spelling. Quick,
undercut the respondents credibility before the quality of the comment can be used
against my argument! Back to Slick Willy tactics.

Intelligent Man, you bring up precisely the issue: what do the Dark Trio get for their
negative efforts? John D (where has he been? Wait, I don't really want to know) enjoys
simple belittlement and third grade taunts. No accounting for what he gets out of it.
UnderSmails has hard core misogyny on the mind. He hates the idea of women having any
status in society other than homemaker and man-tender. Alex is the interesting case -
he has underlying issues that are not at all clear. Something weighs on his psyche though.

ToddCommish - yes, she can only play in two more tournaments. And this also explains why
she should continue to play on PGA Tour events. Since she cannot play more than eight LPGA
tournaments in a year for the next two years, and she cannot play in men's or women's
amateur events any more, where else should she go to play? If she is getting PGA Tour
event exemptions, and can't play in more LPGA events than she is already, it seems crazy
to pass up the opportunity to work on her game in tournament level play. This also helps
explain her decision to turn pro last year, and to play in LPGA and PGA events even before
that. The Wie family was not a rich family. There are very limited Junior and Amateur
events in Hawaii, with limited fields. To play a serious Junior or Amateur schedule, she
would need to fly to the mainland and spend weeks there, or fly back and forth many, many
times a year. Not only was this beyond her family's financial capability, it's also
extremely difficult to maintain any kind of school schedule with that effort.

If you want to be a serious golfer at the Junior level and you live in Hawaii, you need to
have the cash to travel a lot, or you need to move to the mainland. The Wie family avoided
moving by having her play in LPGA and PGA events in Hawaii, and by turning pro to have the
finances necessary to play a full slate of summer events, and some during-the-school-year
events on selected weekends. Most Junior level players don't have the game to do that.
Michelle clearly does - as Ron Sirak pointed out in a recent article on ESPN.com, Wie has
played in 11 LPGA majors, two of them when she was 13 years old, and has 6 top fives, 9
top fifteens, and has made the cut EVERY TIME.

But none of that matters to the Dark Trio. They don't think Michelle should be playing golf
at all, according to UnderSmails. Women playing golf is just another element in the global
liberal media driven masculinization of the female gender which continues to tear at the
very fabric of human existence. But he's really a great guy ladies...you just have to get
to know him. And enjoy being subservient.

Alex

Let me clear this up for the other readers. Probably won’t help you, as you seem to be in deep denial.

In two of Dave Marrandette’s recent blogs you claim to be an attorney.

First Dave M. blog – posted Friday July 14, 2006 | 06:52:48 pm
Title - “Wie can tell you why golf blogs are a balancing act”

On 07/19/06 at 13:29 you wrote:
“Ghet Rheel, I HAVE been an attorney for more than 25 years…”

On 07/20/06 at 18:34 you wrote:
“I am a junior partner in a law firm…”

Second Dave M. blog – posted Monday July 24, 2006 | 10:05:37 am
Title - “Tiger, Annika, and Michelle Wie on the phone”

07/28/06 at 08:13 you wrote:
“I will add that I am 61 years old…"

When we click on the web link next to your name (in all your comment
boxes) - (http://Alex) we read:

“About Alex King
I've been self-employed as an independent software developer
since I moved from the Bay Area to Denver, Colorado in January 2004.”

If you really are a 61 year old “Junior Partner” in a smallish
Chicago area law firm then I feel for ya brother - that would
explain a lot. Tough goin’ up the old "ladder of success" in your own
chosen profession, eh?

If you are not Alex King then delete the link from the Site/URL: box at the
bottom of every blog.

Have someone explain all this to ya, Alex. It is all quite clear, trust me.

Lets see. Laura Davies was playing with them and her opinion is that Michelle didn't falter.
But you are a much more recognized authority on that particular round of golf so therefore your
opinion is the correct opinion? Is that the gist of your argument? I don't believe that
even Karrie Webb suggested the Michelle faltered, but of course it sounds so much more
sinister if you can spin it as a falter, a choke or anything else so that your view
can be sustained.
And you have the collosal nerve to accuse me of whining? Muahahahahahahaha.... Yup,
that'd be me alright.
You are a sore loser Ford. Go take a prozac, kick back and watch some summo wrestling , you
obviously know very little about golf.

Ah, we have Candace Freud here, rendering psycho-analytic evaluations. I'm sure, Candy, that your psycho-babble will redound to your benefit in the Alan Cup competition.

Judge, I would like to be considered as a candidate. I like michelle's chances at the British Open. The wind is blowing and Annika doesn't do well in the wind.

Candace,
Great overview of the fun that is to be had
with the "Dark Trio." But you forgot to add,
apparently they think Communism is behind it
all.

Ghet Rheel
I've tried to explain to Alex exactly
how to remove the Site/Url:. But it
seems as though as soon as he reads
"Site/Url:" his eyes glaze over. He
has no idea what that means apparently.
Either that, or he doesn't know how to
use his delete key.

Ghet Rheel

Sorry for my previous absence. I'm actually flying
home(Yes Alex they allow me back there) in a couple
hours and won't be back till mid/late August.

Though these golf blogs are immensely entertaining,
I think I will be otherwise preoccupied. Maybe I'll
even have time to play some golf.

And whatever happens with Wiesy at Weetabix, I'll think of
you all.

Oh and I totally stand by what I said previously, I
think Sergio Garcia's shirts are perfectly lovely.

I like Wie-Wee's chances this week at W'Bix. +3 after 6 holes. Looking Good ! ! !

Jenney M, I'm glad to hear that you're flying home, wherever home is. Are you going in an airplane or is your broom still in operating condition?

Wie got off to a slow start bogeying holes 1,2, and 3. She settled
in and played the final fifteen holes in -1. She'll likely be within
about four or five shots of the lead by the end of the day. Solid round.
Great recovery from three-over after three.

Let's see, what was I doing the summer I was sixteen?

Bubbles didn't exactly light it up today, two over 74. She did end her round on a good note with a birdie. But, as a recently converted Wie Warrior, I haven't abandoned my prediction that she will win by ten shots. Well, maybe seven or eight. I figure that tomorrow she'll shoot a 68 which will be the best round thus far of the tournament. Then, on moving day, she will really boom out with a 65 or 66 which will put her at eight or nine under. Meanwhile, the rest of the field who don't have Bubbles' classic swing, length off the tee, excellent short iron game, or putting ability, to say nothing of her dangling earrings, wrap-around shades, or risque mini-skirt, will be struggling to stay even with par. On Sunday, she will be able to coast, holding the rest of the stragglers safe and at arm's length. That is where my revised estimate of Bubbles' winning margin of only seven or eight comes in. However, if she has become incensed by all the baseless criticism she has had to endure, she may decide to pour it on and even surpass the lofty goal of a ten-shot victory that I have set for her. In any case, victory for Bubbles is in the bag. Chalk it up as her first of many "W'S".

"Fraiser--Did you just make up a scenario and present it as your argument? You Wie fans are priceless. "

First of all I am not a Wie fan. Second, I was making the point that losing a two shot lead is not necessarily faltering, as you implied.

See what I mean? So before you insult someone, you should at least try to understand what they are saying first. I know it takes effort, but there you go.

Ghet Rheel has explained it quite well for all you Wie bashers. Her 2 over 74 was a "solid round.' She was three over until the 18th hole, so her second birdie of the day that put her only two over was a "great recovery." Got it? Ghet Rheel is trying to recall what he was doing in the summer when he was sixteen. My guess is that he was getting ready to take the sixth grade over again.

How can I be a sore loser? The only loser on this thread is Michelle Wie--based on the fact that she has never won a tournament. Each week I predict that she will not win and each week I am correct as she does not win. I even take it a step further and predict extremely high finishes and again I am right. I have been claiming for years now that Michelle has and will continue to have problems down the stretch of tournaments, not being able to close things out and get the job done, so to speak and lo and behold it happens every week she plays. You are right about one thing Putt I am a sore loser, but to date I have lost nothing on this site as I have nothing to lose---If everybody on this site held discussions/debates as if they were at a cocktail party...sorry bad example for the Wie fans...think Monster Truck Show or keg party and only said things that they would say to another persons face I think we would all be better off. The computer is the great equalizer between men and cowards. Yes, Putt4Parr I'm looking at you. I would be happy to extend the same invatation that I have given to One-Putt--Come by anytime for a game of golf, a nice cold drink and some debate or perhaps a little more adament discussion.

Oooo, my oh my, Ford, I am so sorry to hear that you are a coward.
I see your usual response to any disagreement is a threat of violence.
As I said before, you may want to take up Sumo wrestling to take the edge
off your anger and need for violent conflicts. Oh, yeah, I hear there are
some really great deals on the web for prozac, vallium and assorted tranquilizer.
You really should take advantage of that.

By the way, you might want to look at Karrie Webbs card today. Now that
triple bogey on the 6th hole looks more like faltering than the
Sunday finish of MW at the Evian. Her first round score is a 76.
Can we say that Karries luck ran the other way today? Hmmmmm?

Alex - You're dodging the question - Are you a phoney, or merely inept?
Maybe you missed the following posted earlier - more than likely you're trying to hide from it.

In two of Dave Marrandette’s recent blogs you claim to be an attorney. (a 61 year-old "Junior Partner")
The little blue link next to your name leads to a site that says your a self-employed designer.

Are you a software designer with delusions of mediocrity - dreaming of being a geriatric junior partner?
Are you a geriatric junior partner who can't operate a delete key?


The dates and times that you claim to be an attorney:

First Dave M. blog – posted Friday July 14, 2006 | 06:52:48 pm
Title - “Wie can tell you why golf blogs are a balancing act”

On 07/19/06 at 13:29 you wrote:
“Ghet Rheel, I HAVE been an attorney for more than 25 years…”

On 07/20/06 at 18:34 you wrote:
“I am a junior partner in a law firm…”

Second Dave M. blog – posted Monday July 24, 2006 | 10:05:37 am
Title - “Tiger, Annika, and Michelle Wie on the phone”

07/28/06 at 08:13 you wrote:
“I will add that I am 61 years old…"

When we click on the web link next to your name (in all your comment
boxes) - (http://Alex) we read:

“About Alex King
I've been self-employed as an independent software developer
since I moved from the Bay Area to Denver, Colorado in January 2004.”

If you really are a 61 year old “Junior Partner” in a smallish
Chicago area law firm then I feel for ya brother - that would
explain a lot. Tough goin’ up the old "ladder of success" in your own
chosen profession, eh?

If you are not Alex King then delete the link from the Site/URL: box at the
bottom of every blog.

Have someone explain all this to ya, Alex. It is all quite clear, trust me.

Really, get some help

Ghet Rheel, Since you are obsessed with with this url gizmo, I will state once and for all for your edification that I am definitely not Alex King, software design engineer from Denver. Alex King knows it and now you do also. If I were a software engineer, I'd probably know how to delete this thing that has made you so distressed. My grand son hasn't taught me that aspect yet. When he does, I'll delete it.

All you have to do is thus:

You see where you type messages?

There is a large box, and three smaller boxes further up.

The bottom of those small rectangular objects says "site/url". Delete anything in this box. That's your problem solved.

Frasier, Does that do it? Will that satisfy Gh Rh? Will Alex, the software engineer from Denver drop all litigation? Let's hope so.:-)

Alex, with all the other crap you write, I am surprised that this is what you are being called for.

Putt4Par--I give my opinion, you call me an idiot. I attempt to engage in a pleasent discussion, you call me a lunatic. I debate, while you name call. I politely ask you to keep it civil you respond by calling me a loser. I invite you to my home for drinks and a nice round of golf and you tell me to take my medication. In the real world only one of us would be thought to be angry and potentially violent.

74...Spinning, spinning. Got it--Michelle's just laying in wait prefering not to go out to quickly and conserve her energy for the stretch run, where she always shines.

So, Alex really is a 61 year-old junior partner in a
40 lawyer firm? No wonder he's bitter.

Ford. Nope, never called you an idiot or a lunatic.

But if you feel the urge to be called those names, then
stand in front of a mirror and commence firing.
I did call you a sore loser tho and I was sorry to see you
refer to yourself as a coward but what the heck.

Yup, yup, spinning spinning, Webb at 76. The whole discussion
was your premise of Wie faltering. But heck, you call it any way
you like. It's really easy to keep poking at a 16 year old girl.
Ahh.... wait, wait...I hear it coming.....

putt4par is my favorite on this blog. he/she/it never fails to entertain me
with his/her/its logical retardation.

ah, yes...and Michelle Wie will never win anything.

"ah, yes...and Michelle Wie will never win anything."

Would you put money on that?

Ghet Rheel, Now that Bubbles has that "solid round" in the books and is only eight shots from the lead, it would seem that she has the rest of the field right where she wants them. If she turns up the heat a little tomorrow she should be able to catch and even pass an old hasbeen like Juli Inkster. As for the others, no problem. None of them have the sweet swing, the length, the exemptions or the endorsements of Bubbles. It looks like Bubbles in a romp come Sunday afternoon.

Below are a couple of very important dates.

These are ABSOLUTE DEADLINES for me. After these dates I will go in to the
deep dark despair that the Wie detractors so dearly wish upon her supporters.

Date One: July 18, 2009

Date Two: April 10, 2012

After "date one" Michelle will have forever lost the opportunity
to have her first pro win at an age younger than Tiger Woods.

After "date two" Michelle will have forever lost the opportunity
to have her first pro win at an age younger than Jack Nicklaus.

If she wins anytime before either of these dates, she'll be way ahead of
the mark set by at least one the legendary golfers of our time.

Sure, one could argue that there are other "first win" target dates of some significance, but I
believe these may be the ones most important to her true supporters.

Ghet Rheel, I find your criteria for immortality more than a little convoluted. But just for the sake of debate, let's say your parameters are valid. If so, then you must agree with this premise: Since Paula Creamer has already won professional tournaments at an earlier age than either Woods or Jack, and she therefore has fulfilled your requirements, she must have the mantle of greatness bestowed on her before Bubbles. Do you agree? I didn't think so.

Do any of you Wie Warriors care to comment on the ground rules that Ghet Rheel has set down for Bubbles to achieve immortality? You know, the ones that Paula Creamer has already accomplished? Ghet SurRheel seems to have gone silent.

Get Rheel, nice try you twit. She has until those dates to WIN ON THE PGA TOUR.

I think Paula Creamer is a bright young star. Maybe she'll be a legend
some day. Wie should emulate legends. I also think that whoever is promoting
Paula (yes, pro golf IS a business) could learn a lot from Nike, Sony, etc.

Ghet Rheel, Using the term "legend" when referring to either Paula or Michelle borders on sacrilege. But since you insist, then by your own criteria, Paula is a legend right now, while Bubbles is just a legend wannabe. Whoever is promoting Paula, just as whoever is promoting Michelle is irrelevant in this discussion. Ghet Rheel, if that's the best you can do after that long to come up with an answer, maybe you ought to give ot a rest. To this point, I've assumed that you are of the masculine sex/gender. But in re-reading some of your posts, you display a trait that is reserved for women, that of never giving a direct answer to anything. Women get chastized in courtrooms at least twice as often as men for this habit. My guess is that if you're not a woman. you're one of those "metrosexuals" of which the militant feminists are so fond.

Alex

Do happen to know "Johnny Dark". Johnny Dark is the 61 year-old
CBS page on the Letterman Late Show. Since he's the only 61 year-old
page I've ever heard of, and you're the only 61 year-old Junior Partner
I've ever heard of, I thought maybe you'd crossed paths.

61... Junior Partner... Wow, that's funny!! Who knows your talents better than your
own law firm? Hey Alex - The tribe has spoken.

Ghet Rheel, You should have quit while you were still ahead. You're displaying your abysmal ignorance for all to see. Pay attention now so some of this sinks in. The primary criterion in virtually all law firms as to status as a senior or junior partner is the financial stake that one has in the firm. To a far lesser degree is longevity with any given firm a consideration. You say that you've never heard of a junior partner of my age. If you posts are any indication, that isn't the only thing you've never heard of. Now, Gh Rh, why don't you further explain your criteria for greatness that you've established for Bubbles?

At 61 you should have the financial ability to "buy in" or portable
business bookings sufficient to be named full partner. You obviously
are mediocre in your "chosen field" or you would have acquired one or
the other by now. "Retirement age" Juniors in small firms are as rare as hens teeth.

You ask why I seldom answer your questions. I see you as a Child Abuser.
It is that simple. You can blame it on BJ or Nike or whomever you wish -
but I see you as a Child Abuser. Leave the teenage girl alone.

Child abuse is one the cruelest and most damaging of all crimes, in it's physical form it can leave children battered and bruised and in it's mental form it can leave perhaps even more damage in the form of depression, anxiety, low self-esteem and feelings of self-doubt and inadequacy. These physical and mental scars can last a lifetime and often repeat themselves as abused children grow up. Ghet Rheel I was just making sure that we are talking about the same "child abuse". If you truly believe that what Alex is doing on this blog consitutes child abuse then there is little hope for you. Do you actually think Michelle Wie reads these things or for that matter cares what you or I say about her? Even so, calling Michelle, "Bubbles" and questioning her ability to win golf tournaments or even her mental toughness hardly qualifies as abuse. You don't like Alex, fine argue with him call him a jerk, whatever, but calling people who do not buy into the marketing sensation that is Michelle Wie child abusers is doing a diservice to the real victims of abuse.

Ford, Ghet Rheel seems to think he has some sort of legal mind. A while back on another thread, he was absolutely certain that a conspiratorial plot was afoot to deny Bubbles her deserved publicity and the accompanying income. He was equally as certain that such nefarious actions were actionable since Michelle is a minor, a "child" as he put it. He even created a scenario where a group of disgruntled female clerical workers who hated their bosses would act as "whistleblowers" to expose these corporate tyrants. He has never hinted as to what his livelihood is,yet now he claims to know all the inner workings and policies of law firms he has never heard of. He won't answer any questions because he doesn't have any answers. Some of his stuff is really bizarre, for instance his convoluted comparison of Bubbles vis-a-vis Tiger and Jack. Sometimes he is actually delusional. Either that or he is just a misguided wiseacre.

Ford

Yes, I believe the comments that you and Alex and Smails make are abusive.
Michelle is still a child. That is child abuse in my opinion. You, Alex, and Smails speak with one
voice (and in one writing style, and none of you can use an "enter" key).

I doubt Michelle reads your comments, but this IS a public forum. If one types "Michelle Wie"
and searches Google news, the travelgolf blogs appear on the first page of results. It is a safe
bet that other detractors and bullies use your comments as fodder for their abuse as well.

The Wall Street Journal has just written about Exxon's use of blogs and other internet PR tactics
to discredit Gore's recent film. Phoney grassroots public relations campaigns (astroturf, WSJ reports
is the industry term) are becoming common.

Sometimes people think they are invisible, but are merely transparent.

One note about the Laura Davies shank in The Evian: I personally witnessed a 40-year-old Jack Nicklaus cold top a 3 wood second shot on the par 5 17th hole at Baltusrol in the 1980 US Open. It went about 90-100 yards. He not only made a great par on the hole, but he went on to win that year. If the greatest player in history can do that, perhaps we should cut Davies a little slack for that horrible tee shot. And as for 42-year-old Davies being over the hill, nobody else in the first-rate field at Evian beat her except for Karrie Webb. That would include Annika Sorenstam, Se Ri Pak, Juli Inkster and any other of the best golfers alive right now. I know all of this is great fun but let's try to limit the totally inane remarks.

As we can see by the leadrboard anyone can have an off tournament.
Karrie just shot an 82 and missed the cut.
That does not make her a bad golfer, just an unlucky golfer in this years BWO.

Now I remember who you are, you're the genious who warned of imminent law suits regarding what is being said about Michelle on these sites. Since you have now called me a child abuser I humbly ask you to find for me examples of my abusive and offensive comments towards Michelle. I have a lovely wife and two beautiful healthy sons at home who would strongly disagree with your assesment of me. When you fail to find any abusive comments attributed to me, I will generously accept your apology.

A guy calling himself Shanks has a problem with an innocous post regarding Laura Davies "shank", that's actually pretty funny. I think we would be in agreement that Laura Davies while she is playing quite well as of late is well past her best golf/prime of her career, hence the over-the-hill comment and I again think we can both agree that she is not exactly supermodel thin, which explains the overweight comment. Of all the innane and semi-delusional things said on this rapidly declining website you have chosen a comment about Laura Davies to draw a line in the sand, people are threatening Wie "skeptics" with lawsuits and you are mad about Laura Davies...People are basically toasting Hitler on Tucker's blog and telling racist jokes on another page and you have come to the aid of Laura Davies and her "shank", how noble of you. Way to pick your spot there chief.

On 2006-08-02 at 13:17 you wrote:

"If I were comment on Michelle's gawky appearence, her unusually small mouth,
her tendency to dress like a teen hooker or her verbal skills, which make her
sound like a stuttering and stammering child giving a book report then you would have a point."

Most of the world finds Michelle to be attractive, intellegent, graceful and articulate. She
is fluent in English and Korean, and conversant in Japanese and Chinese. If you think you've "covered"
yourself by saying "If I were to comment...", then you are only fooling yourself - no one else.

Yes, it is my opinion that you have committed verbal abuse against a child in a public forum. Call it
what you like. I think it is child abuse.

By the way, the next time your children appear before the cameras and mikes of the world's press - knowing
every word they say will be scrutinized... tell me then about her handling of such situation. I think she handles
herself brilliantly, on and off the course.

The vast majority of golf fans, new and old, are having a wonderful experience watching a rare talent
grow. It is like watching Mickey Mantle's rookie year with the Yankees (he batted .267 with 13 homers). Don't
you wish you could have been there so you could have panned him? Get off your high horse - Nobody's buying it.

The above is addressed to "Ford"

Mickey Mantle was a drunk who pissed away more god given talent then anyone who ever played the game, but that's a different argument for another website.

While we certainly disagree on what consitutes child abuse, you do give me reason to pause and think about my stance on Michelle Wie. I have long argued that Michelle, while being a great talent has shown a troubling inability to close out tournaments, nothing wrong with that, but when comments I have made prompt claims of abuse(right or wrong) I must step back and look at said comments. I will never be head of Michelle's fan club, the overwhelming hype and her rabid fans will always prevent that, but I will in the future attempt to cease from making intentionally inflammatory remarks or negative statements about Michelle personally or her fan base. I am a devoted father, a well respected member of my community and a major contributer to charitable causes worldwide. It is unbecoming, in my opinion to be viewed, if even by just one person as a voice of negativity, so bear with me as I channel some positive energy.

Sorry, I couldn't resist the Mantle dig. I'm a Sox fan--

Ford

I appreciate your carefully considered response. We must remember that
Michelle has harmed no one, ever. She is an innocent. All this media hysteria must be bewildering
to a gentle sixteen year-old girl who has only tried to excel, has merely done her best.

Again, thank you for youe response.

Thanks, Ghet Rheel. I looked back at some of my old posts and I did not particulary like what I saw. A whole lot of sarcasm, cynicism and even a little ill will towards a teen girl who at the end of the day is just playing a game. I'm a pretty easy going, positive guy who enjoys golf with friends, time with my family and helping my community and here I am on this site poking fun at a child because she can't win at the highest levels of her sport and challenging fellow bloggers to fights. This is not how I would like to be viewed. Don't get me wrong I would still like to see her win one to ease some of my doubts, but expect a kindler gentler Ford in the future.

"..and a major contributer to charitable causes worldwide."
Ford, you are truly hilarious.

"Yes, it is my opinion that you have committed verbal abuse against a child in a public forum. Call it
what you like. I think it is child abuse."

But not nearly as hilarious as Ghet Rheel.

And yes, Wie does dress like a teenaged hooker. Her parents and handlers are a disgrace.

Booger you're really testing this kindler gentler thing. You know what kind of person you are, anybody who has read you're blogs knows too and I know what kind of person I am, so let's just leave it at that.

Booger, I have read your comments on this and other blogs at this site and the
best that can be said is that they are usually so unintelligent that no one pays
much attention. Please go crawl back into whatever hole you crawled out of.


ps the name fits

Ford

Please don't feel obligated to "go easy" with me. I certainly don't intend
to "go easy" on posters who "push my buttons". I do appreciate your thoughts
about MW - with the exception that I'd caution you not to "bet the farm" that MW
can't win at the highest levels. Hasn't won yet at 14, 15, or 16? - Safe bet.
Won't win at 16, 17, 18, or 19? - Tough bet at any odds.

As with most golfers, I think the lion's share of Michelle's wins will come between
the ages of 22 and 35. She'll still be 22 six years from now.

Florida Mike is a communist.

sorry dissecting and professionalism were mispelled in my earlier post. (for all the grammer police)

"grammer" should be "grammar", commie.

Ghet Rheel said,

"Most of the world finds Michelle to be attractive,
intellegent, graceful and articulate."

Ghet Rheel not only pretends to speak for most of the world
but apparently he finds 16 year old girls attractive.

Very disturbing.

Visitor, So you find Ghet Rheel's infatuation with Bubbles and 16 year old girls disturbing, do you? No surprise here. Read his posts. He is disturbed. He refers to people who find fault with MW and have the gall to criticize her as "child abusers." He has used this epithet quite often, so much so that it could well be considered an obsession. He might well be the child abuser that he accuses others of being. And I definitely think he's been abusing himself too much.