Wie Warriors doubt Michelle Wie more than anyone: Wacky, way-out there Wolfrum gets one right
Usually, I read William K. Wolfrum’s blogs on Michelle Wie with the same stunningly bemused expression the 3-year-old I sometimes baby sit for wears when she’s watching the Wiggles sing about fruit salad. Sort of a horrified, yet transfixed mug. For Wolfrum - or Special K. as he’s known around the office - waffles around on Wie, dramatically changing opinions with the ease Sergio Garcia changes ugly shirts, like one of the paralyzing indecisive liberal politicians of his early-morning dreams.
One blog, he’s mocking Wie’s inability to ever win with a cutting remark about the Year 2000 (Conan O’Brien wants his bit back). The next, he’s falling over her in such lavish praise that Jennifer Mario considers inviting him to a Duke lacrosse pep rally.
But this time, K. finally got it right. He’s finally seen the light.
Here K. goes off and writes a blog so transparent and over-the-top in its attempt to drum up Wie mania Friday night that Charles Barkley’s left wondering where all the subtlety’s gone in people’s words today. And what does Special K. get from it?
A bunch of Wie Warriors crying out, “Whoa, whoa, whoa … You’re talking about winning. Don’t tell me you’re talking about winning. We’re talking about winning? Don’t tell me we’re talking about winning. We don’t do winning.”
K. inadvertently produced the most damning blog on the ridiculousness of Michelle Wie yet. To his credit, he later realized it. But there is no greater cementing of Wie’s status as a marketing hype creation rather than a sports story with any merit than the reaction of her own fans.
The classic had to be how several Wie Warriors immediately posted how the Winless Wonder could do nothing at all if Karrie Webb played well. She was helpless, at Webb’s mercy, a victim of circumstance. Webb happened to be up by one shot at the time.
One shot going into the final round of the Evian Masters. One shot. I had to double check this several dozen times because the way the Wie fans wrote about it, you couldn’t help but be convinced it was a 10-shot lead.
Well yeah, what can do. Webb has that insurmountable edge. I’m sure Michelle will give it a good try, but come on, that’s some deficit. Really, we might as well be asking the girl to cure cancer.
One shot.
Of course, the Wie Warriors knew that Michelle Wie would have found a way to lose if she had been up five shots going into the last round. Heck, she did somehow manage to overcome that great Webb advantage and take a two-shot lead with seven holes to go. And lose. Again.
Wie Warriors know that Michelle Wie is incapable of winning. Sorry, Wie fans. Your words reveal what’s really in your hearts.
The debate’s over. But welcome over to my side. Nice to have you. K. has baked you all some nice biscuits.
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201 comments
You babysit small children?
I think Sergio Garcia's Adidas shirts are lovely.
Special K is slang for ketamine.
Someone lets you babysit their three year old?
I loved it because I despise what corporations are doing to the game I love, in the guise of this social engineering BS.
The sad thing is that this girl doesn't have the right stuff, and maybe could have developed it if the hype machine wasn't there. She won't be around for long.
I loved it because I despise what corporations are doing to the game I love, in the guise of this social engineering BS.
The sad thing is that this girl doesn't have the right stuff, and maybe could have developed it if the hype machine wasn't there. She won't be around for long."
Are you mates with Uri Geller? What possible basis can you base such an assumption on? I really can't see it. So, you're second at sixteen, gone at 20? Is that your belief? It just seems exceptionally strange to me.
And by the way, I am not a "Wie warrior". I am not really into the LPGA to be honest. I just find it strange how someone can see someone come second at sixteen and then say "they'll be gone is a few years".
Scoring Average: 1) Wie 70.06, 2) Webb 70.62, 3) Sorenstam 70.75, 4) Ochoa 70.81, 5) Pak 71.25, 6) Creamer 72.25.
Money: 1) Webb $900K, 2) Sorenstam $727K, 3) Wie $576K, 4) Pak $542K, 5) Ochoa $376K, 6) Creamer $167K
Media hype? Hardly. A 16 year scores more than one-half stroke per round less than the greatest women players in the world. This is no fluke. The greatest golfer that ever lived, Tiger, loses 75% of the time. At 16, Tiger wasn't capable of making a cut, let alone contend in a major. Mr. Baldwin, do you know anything about golf?
How is Paula Creamer doing?
Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.
I have never claimed she was better than any golfer male or female. My position is she has a mixture of great golf athletic prowess, natural ability, is photogenic and is charming for her age. I continue to enjoy watching her golf and it is the same enjoyment I had when I watched Jack Nicklaus as a kid/young man and Tiger as he came on the scene. I believe Michelle is going to be a great golfer and a positive role model for years to come. I will also forever be grateful for her help in getting my daughter interested in Golf!!
A while ago you said if Paula went for a year without a win, you would write an article attacking her the way you attack Wie. Well it's been a year since the last Evian......
Yes, but it has only been 9 months and 1 week since Paula Creamer's last JLPGA win.
Anywho I decided to comment on this blog b/c it just confused me. Here's my observation so far when wie fans/ warriors profess how great Michelle Wie actually is the nay-sayers rip into them believing they think to highly of Michelle Wie, Yet when they don't profess how great she is by claiming she'll win the Evian the nay-sayers rip into them. Well this is lose lose situation for wie fans/warriors and a win win situation for the nay-sayers. The Wie fans/warriors are darned if they do and darned if they don't.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sp/072206britishopen/im:/060801/483/04321d80429c437dab3313d9cc305581;_ylt=Anty9t3Hgpwi4Ib83jrB1SDNaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--
pisses so many people off, that somehow she was "too good" for that
is a slap in the face to everyone else who did took that route.
It was once said that jealousy is the trubute mediocrity pays to genius.
That seems to ring very true with Michelles critics. Does she not belong right
where she is at? She has revitalized women's golf, agree with her path or not.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/lpga/2006-07-31-lincicome_x.htm
Many pros on the LPGA would kill to have her record this year, even those who have won a tournament. Even with the limited number of tournaments she can play in and the fact that the season is only half through, she already has eclipsed the records that most pros on the LPGA will have by the end of the season. In the tournaments she and Sorenstam have played in at the same time this season, Wie has outperformed her more often than not, yet you don't gripe about Sorenstam.
It is inevitable that Wie will master the art of winning; she's on the accelerated path if you think about it. She is outperforming so many that did their time in college and now are noobs to the LPGA. Like them she is learning the art of getting and maintaining a lead, but her record shows that she's learning faster - and this while having a whole separate and demanding life outside of golf. She's still a student and can't dedicate all of her time to practice as the pros can and do.
To say she doesn't know how to win is silly. It's just a matter of time, and when it does come, it will be amusing to watch how you react. You will have to accept it, yet you will resist. You are biased and more transparent than anyone would hope to be. I don't know why you are so prejudiced against Wie, but get over yourself and address the positive.
"I want to fish all day or gamble all day.
My goal is to make enough money to retire at 35."
I hope Michelle didn't get apple juice on her mustache. ;)
Seriously, so she offered her father some food. Cool. And?
Are we supposed to abase ourselves in adoration of
St. Michelle the Merciful because she happens to be part of
the club of 5 billion-plus attentive children in the world?
Just on the say-so of one of the Wie Lunatics on this blog?
-George
Everybody wants it easy and fast, for what?
So they can kick back and do nothing with their lives? Michelle is a positive role
model who I for one, (father of four) want my kids to look up to. She busted down the door
of status quo, well before her lucratuve endorsments came. Why? Because she loves
the game and has an incredible talent. I beleive she is a sincere, genuine asset to
the game. She wants to finish high school and go to college. Even while
making 10 mil a year. If that does not speak of integrity what does.
Brittany Lincicome has outperformed the young stars who received the bulk of the hype entering the LPGA season:
Player
Events
Wins
Top-10s
Earnings
$
Rank
Brittany Lincicome
15
1
4
$771,611
7
Paula Creamer
17
0
9
$739,421
11
Natalie Gulbis
18
0
6
$603,256
14
Ai Miyazato
16
0
3
$358,374
19
Morgan Pressel
15
0
4
$277,457
25
Michelle Wie
6
0
6
$700,284
*
* Wie, who has finished no worse than a tie for fifth in her six events, is not an LPGA member so she does not appear on the money list. Her earnings would rank her 14th.
you see that everyone but Michelle has played in at least 15 events and Michelle has won $700,284 in 6. This comes out to:
Average per event
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714
THAT does not count as outperforming to me. Brittany complains that Michelle should play on the LPGA tour, but she cannot until 2008 due to her age. She is outperforming the other "young guns" by a margin of more than 2 to 1
Lack of any wins and many missed cuts may be a sign of mediocrity for some, but not for Bub---, Michelle Wie.
short term memory problems are an ominous sign. When Michelle starts winning, ya'll will get sick of her winning.
George, How many other high profile golfers do you know who have given consistently to charities the way Michelle has. I am not just talking about the $500,00 given to Hurrikcane Katrina victims the day after her endorsment checks cleared. Everywhere she goes she looks to help with the local charities. I do not "worship" Ms Wie, but I did point out to my daughter the Katrina donation as an example. We live where Hurricane Ivan kicked butt, so it made a big impression with her. To those whom God has been kind, should be kind in their turn.
If Wie fans are satisfied with her top 5's, fine, but Michelle, Nike, Omega and B.J. expect more, namely wins. For over 3 years now the media, and Michelle's team have told us that a win was just around the corner for her, followed by domination of the LPGA tour and then finally conquest of the men's game. We are still stuck on phase one of the Michelle Wie world domination plan, "I'm getting really close" has replaced any bravado she once possesed. If her goal is to be a top 5 LPGA golfer then congratulations you're there Michelle, if you're goal is to known as the best player to never win anything, then by all means you have reached the summitt, but if you're goal is to live up to your own hype and be something more then a contender you have a lot of work to do.
If Wie fans are satisfied with her top 5's, fine, but Michelle, Nike, Omega and B.J. expect more, namely wins. For over 3 years now the media, and Michelle's team have told us that a win was just around the corner for her, followed by domination of the LPGA tour and then finally conquest of the men's game. We are still stuck on phase one of the Michelle Wie world domination plan, "I'm getting really close" has replaced any bravado she once possesed. If her goal is to be a top 5 LPGA golfer then congratulations you're there Michelle, if you're goal is to known as the best player to never win anything, then by all means you have reached the summitt, but if you're goal is to live up to your own hype and be something more then a contender you have a lot of work to do."
Is the reason you don't like Wie is the hype? Because that's all I'm hearing. There's something worse than hype; and that's anti-hype. It's people who say they can't stand someone or something because it is hyped. It happened to Tiger as well.
I am not saying Wie will become anything for definate. But the chances are that she will. When you come second at sixteen, then one would presume you can win when you are older. Maybe it doesn't pan out like that. But it probably will.
of reason and that you don't stoop to base, vulgar remarks.
However I still have to disagree with you. She has raised the
bar for women's golf. She competed brilliantly this past week
against the best. If you belittle her performance by taking
swipes at Davies, what
does that say about Annika or Lorenas game? What is precisely
the amazing thing to me about Michelle is that for the past year she has been
in the top 5 about every tournament. No other women or man can say that.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that last statement. Is that not an amazing feat,
and I know you hate to hear it but even more so for a 16 year old
high school girl who has to go back to class in a couple weeks.
I'll give you 10-1 odds that she never wins an LPGA tournament (barring serious injury). In fact, I will make the deal even sweeter, I'll give you 10-1 odds against her winning before she turns 21. Put up $200 and I'll put up $2000. Just contact me via my email address that comes along with this post any we'll sort out the arrangements. Should be the easiest $2000 you ever made, right?
I'm serious about the offer. Are you a man of your convictions or does your blog contain nothing but weasel words as most of us suspect?
I will also note that as luck or lack of it goes, her second shot into the par 5 18th roled gently around the back of the green and could have easily turned toward the hole as much as it drifted off the back. You can't fault the girl for trying. The ball will start bouncing her way .... but then the Fords, and Alex's of the world, oh1 dont forget George, will cry foul! foul! she was just lucky. Did U see that?!
Guys, she's banked more money than the Paula's and Morgan or Brittneys in just 6 events for the 15 or so they have played.
in the background.
move the horizontal slide bar back and forth to read each line?
Same problem on Dot Wong's blog.
But great shot or not, some people might say Laura Davies was lucky to wind up with the
shortest birdie putt on the hole(and one on the same line as the other two so she had two
great reads before she had to putt.}
I guess, though, that I'm playing his game by even being here.
I guess I can't help it, Baldwin is like a train wreck or other disaster, and draws people like any other bizzare occurrence.
In a year he'll be either gone, or his readership will be back down to the internet equivalent of single digits.
Enjoy your readership now, it won't be here for very long.
I get a decent format FOR A MOMENT, which then shifts to the horrible one.
PEOPLE PLEASE USE THE ENTER KEY TO FORMAT YOUR LINES
LIKE I AM DOING, LIKE GHET RHEEL AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS ARE DOING.
THANK YOU.
I wonder where Alex went? Intelligent conversation seems to shut him up!
with me posting that yahoo picture link earlier. I tried to paste it in
Site/Url area but it was not accepted. I don't mind if the blogmaster removes it.
Again, my apologies if that was the reason.
"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."
That quote will follow you for a long, long time. I've pasted it and
saved it. I'd encourage other Wie supporters to do the same.
Seems to me you've made a pretty steep bet with all your current
and future readers - you know, like your credibility as a golf
analyst.
even if you put your money on #1 Annika.
The fact is that when Michele is 2nd
or 3rd, she is soundly beating 99% of the best
women golfers in the world. To do this every time
you enter a tournament is phenomenal.
You can always go back and look a particular shot and
say that is the one that either won or lost a tournament.
The thing is everyone has some lucky breaks, and
some unlucky ones. Look at the bounce off the tree
for MW on the 18th on friday.The best 4 rounds wins.
This tends to average out the lucky from the unlucky.
Look at Michelle's average round score for the year.
That is a very compelling statistic. Her consisitency
makes her the best women golfer on the tour at this time.
That is in my humble opinion!
a golf analyst? To be a analyst don't you need to actually
know something about the game and make some reasonably
sound observations as objectivley as possible. His blog is just
another opinion by one of Michelle's cynical naysayers.
To whom I might add, have every right to post their opinions.
But to call yourself an analyst, I guess ESPN is just having a hard
time getting in touch with me because I guess with your credentials,
that makes me qualified to be their programing director.
Your sarcasm in your posts adds nothing positive to the blogs.
You would be better off just trying to make decent points.
Compliments to Alex for one thing though.
He used to flounder over everything Under Par said, and when Alex made
a comment, he would usually, look for reassurance from under par in every comment
he made. At least Alex has got a little more independant and isn't looking to
Under Par so often for reassurance.
What happened to Under Par anyway?
Can you fix the text wrap thing, because when someone posts a web address,
or a long line, it just makes the thing really wide.
wideeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Get the point?
Fix it because that has happened in a number of blogs.
And it makes them annoying for reading, when scrolling left and right.
Fix it please.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sp/072206britishopen/im:/060801/483/04321d80429c437dab3313d9cc305581;_ylt=Anty9t3Hgpwi4Ib83jrB1SDNaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--
I predict Wie will put in another good performance.
I also predict she will put in a performance that would win many tournaments.
Annika will want number 11 though and if she is playing well, then she is the favourite.
Here's the deal though, you have better odds
of Michelle placing in the top 3 than anyone.
Michell, Karrie, Se Ri,Annika, then Lorena. In that order.
Fine, are you happy Alex, I'm out dangling on a limb.
of other golf bloggers) is clear. It is an unfounded slam against a brilliant young talent.
It is that:
"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."
To say that it is "a bad bet" to the predict a winner of any single event
is dead right. Team sports usually compete weekly on a one-on-one basis. Golfers
play against a field. This week, Wie will compete against about 150 of the world's best
golfers. As you point out, she will need some lucky breaks to win - as will
the winner if someone else takes the title.
The monumental achievement for Wie is being "in the hunt" week after week. She
is "in position" on a regular basis. A high-school probabilities class should provide
sufficient background to predict that a brilliant young golfer who is learning more
of "the ropes" each week, will likely soon get the good fortune needed win.
At a time when the LPGA is stumbling, the LPGA brain-trust searches for strategies
to keep Michelle out. John Nash won a Nobel prize for his Game Theory. He pointed out
in the "prisoner's dilemma" game, that "self-interest hurts everyone". In other
words - what do you do with a Golden Goose? You try to kill it, of course.
Bloggers should be in a unique position to read the will of the people. A quick look at the number of
comments in the travelgolf blogs, shows strong interest in Wie, while little or none for other
topics. Golf has a sudden tidal wave of broad-based interest in the game. The smart thing to do would be
roll with that wave. The predictable (game theory) reaction is occurring in board-rooms, PGA offices
(with noteable exceptions), LPGA offices, and bloggers brains as we speak.
I agree. I don't see a "definite maybe" as a bad thing. It's better than "most likely not" or "maybe if someone dies." A definite maybe means they are actually in contention rather than not even breaking the top 10. If we knew definitely who would win absolutely, why would we bother to watch any sporting event? Of course there is enjoyment in observing the skill and performance, but in the end it is about finding out who wins.
George, How many other high profile golfers do you know
who have given consistently to charities the way Michelle has.
*****
A couple of easy-to-find examples:
2006 - Paula Creamer, in conjunction with IMG Academies, is giving back to the local junior golf community
by offering two, one-year golf scholarships and 40 week-long golf scholarships
to the David Leadbetter Golf Academy (DLGA) for area kids participating in the First Tee of Sarasota/Manatee program.
2005, Mitchell company tour for champions - Creamer and three other golfers donate $100 per birdie in tourney to charity.
Paula also did several first-tee events, giving of her own time. She also participated in some charity golf events.
Also note this link from a July 20th article:
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/sports/15078393.htm
Finally, go to the charitable giving section at the LPGA web site. You'll be set straight there.
I realize what others do is not as wonderful as St. Michelle the Merciful handing out an apple slice,
or making a carefully staged, highly publicized donation to hurricane victims right after she announced her big contract.
Then again, only one female golfer in the world got $20 million over two years from Nike/Sony.
I do not slight Michelle here. I only point out how you are just the latest to be duped by the hype machine that pumps out PR for Michelle.
You doubtless thought Michelle was the only one giving time/money worth mentioning to charity.
But why should you be blamed? Ignorance is bliss, after all, happy poster. And saints like Michelle the Merciful are few and far between.
-George
you may give yourselve what ever reason why you watch but you watch anyway. That alone jusitfies the endorsements.
Bottom line is that she is doing something you will NEVER do or hope to do, no one will pay money to watch you play ever, no one will ever give you an exemption ever, and no one will
ever want you to endorse any thing of value.
How many people repley to this blog? 50? 100? say even 200, complared to the support, admiration that Ms. Wie does get? there are over 300 that I known of in my son's school alone.
The real bottom line is this: How much did you make this weekend you dumb shit?
pin this above your bed lest U forget.
After a brief peak into the annuls of recent golf history, Bubbles, at 15
last year, beat the whole field in the last three days of the
weetabix tournament. She opened with a 75.
With her experience to date she will have a decent opening round and
proceed to lead into the fianl round. Annika will mount a charge but
to no avail. The last group will have Paula Creamer
(it's about time) Wie, and Lorena Ochoa. Karrie will not be in
contension this week Lorena will perform her classic choke and fade.
It will be a duel between Paula and Wie on the back nine ......
Paula will bogie the 419 yard par 4 17th, Wie will par it and birdie the
18th to win by 3 strokes. Paula's problem will be the pressure to prove
a point against Wie. Wie knowing she owns her in the last 5 tournaments will
be cool as ice!
Are you happy now Alex? That thud you heard was the guntlet buddy.
and "guntlet" was really "gauntlet"
I know the english majors still lurk.
Telegraph Online UK
Davies and Wie show mutual respect
By Lewine Mair
As for Davies, she sees Wie as the proverbial breath of fresh air. "Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous," she said in these columns yesterday.
Now this comes from one of her contemporaries playing right alongside her in tournaments and I believe she hit the nail right on the head.
So think about it Chris, Tim, Ron, Dot, Ford, George, Judge or Alex. Which category do you fall into?
Nicklaus won 20% of the time, Woods wins 25%, Anika wins 30%.
So, with the winningest player in the game "losing" 7 out of ten times,
a "definite maybe" is as good as it gets.
Here are some stats from Florida Mike, Johnny N., and WieWarrior.
Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714
How is Paula Creamer doing?
Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.
Scoring Average:
1) Wie 70.06
2) Webb 70.62
3) Sorenstam 70.75
4) Ochoa 70.81
5) Pak 71.25
6) Creamer 72.25
Bashers, where's your statistical support that Wie isn't "right
on track" for winning, and winning often? Lyndon Baines Johnson
had a phrase for lost political causes. When asked how strong the support was
for an upcoming bill in congress, LBJ said, "Its thin boys, thinner than
piss on a rock."
Bashers, statistical support for your view of Wie's prospects is thinner yet.
Again:
On August 1, 2006 Golf writer Chris Baldwin wrote:
"...Michelle Wie is incapable of winning."
Chris, are you really that clueless? Or do you think we are.
one thing, Wie is getting her low scoring average on the tougher courses, most being majors
where scores tend to be higher.
I am waiting to see what the bashers have as a rebuttal. The numbers
don't lie.
Heh heh heh!
Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714
I think it is important to note this average is nearly $25,000 per event higher than last season for Michelle. In 2005 Paula averaged about $30,000 less per event while playing in 25 events. Ah continuous improvement.
If I remember correctly, I earned $116,564 less per week from my high school part time job. Damn that 69 GTO would have MINE! I wonder what Michelle will be driving to school this year?
Please check my math, but at the rate Paula is gaining on Michelle (in per-event
earnings), Paula should catch up with Michelle in about January of the year 2021.
[5K gain per year - $73,219 differential] -
Q: How frustrating is it to finish so high every week, but not be able to break through for a win yet?
MICHELLE WIE: Well, you know, obviously it's very frustrating right after you finish playing. It's like,
oh my God, I was close again.
If you look at the overall if you look at overall year, I feel like this is the best I've ever played.
And obviously I wish I could have won a couple of events, but hey, at least I'm not winning one event and
then missing the cut in another. I'm consistently being up there. I'm consistently playing good golf.
I think a win is coming. It's just depends on how lucky you are that week and how good you're playing.
I feel like I'm playing very solidly. You know, obviously it's been a little bit frustrating that I haven't
been able to, you know, go up to the next step but I feel like it's happening. It's not because I'm lacking
anything. It's just when you look back on a week, it's just a shot here, a shot there. By doing this, I feel
I'm learning how to win. I feel like I've been playing the best I ever have, you know, consistent wise.
..... so much her not stooping to the level of others..... Interesting... very interesting....
she is going to keep her pace of top 5 finishes going... the same thing goes for stroke average.
Once she plays a full schedule, and at the end of that year we can see what the scoring
averages are... then it will be time to boast or hang your head.
I fall into the category of people who don't give
a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think
______________________________________________
So what you don't care about what Nancy Lopez has to say then.
These stats are worth repeating:
Here are some stats from Florida Mike, Johnny N., and WieWarrior.
Average per event (young guns)
Brittany = $51,400
Paula = $43,495
Natalie = $33,514
Ai = $22,398
Morgan = $18,497
Michelle = $116,714
How is Paula Creamer doing?
Perhaps this will help:
Fields: Wie beat Creamer by 5 strokes.
Kraft: Wie beat Creamer by 13 strokes.
lpga: Wie beat Creamer by 10 strokes.
us open: Wie beat Creamer by 8 strokes.
Evian: Wie beat Creamer by 4 strokes.
Scoring Average:
1) Wie 70.06
2) Webb 70.62
3) Sorenstam 70.75
4) Ochoa 70.81
5) Pak 71.25
6) Creamer 72.25
Military_Golfer points out Michelle's scoring average comes mostly
from the tough "Majors" courses. When she begins playing a full schedule
(adding easier layouts) her scoring average will further improve.
Another of John Nash's Game Theory tenets is, "where actions defy logic, there
is a prevailing self-interest". So, a sixteen-year old golf star is rewriting the
record books, and yet the Bashers wail, "SHE'LL NEVER WIN". In the face of the stats, Bashers,
you'd have to be CRUSHINGLY STUPID to think she can't win. Bashers, I have never met
ANYONE that crushingly stupid. So, in the only alternative, what's your prevailing self-interest?
Ford comment:
I fall into the category of people who don't give
a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think
______________________________________________
So what you don't care about what Nancy Lopez has to say then.
-------------------------------------------------------
They only care if it' detrimental to MW, you know that Johnny.
Same as JR spinning Wies comment about not missina the cut, etc.
They will all read whatever they want into any comment made about/by/for MW.
And cheer loudly at any negative comments. It's all about the hype you know !!
And we all know that's bullsh*t too.
It doesn't take strength of field into account.
but it does take course difficulty into accout.
Compare a player's score to Field: the winner--or the
second place finisher if the player was the winner.
Doing this for Annika for her great year last year.
I got a Field + 26, but giving Annika a -1 for one playoff,
whiche she won, it would become Field + 25 over 70 rounds of stroke play.
This would be a per round average of Field + -0.371
if we ignore the playoff, which Annika won,
or Field + 0.357 if we make the adjustment.
This year Michelle Wie is Field + 7 for 19 rounds of stroke play.
That is an average of Field + 0.368 or very close to
what Annika did last year.
Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.
Wie will win soon enough. Only her Bashers have their panties in a bunch
as to when.
Alez, Wie will win soon.
Bashers in general - As much as you are bagging on Wie Warriors, I have the feeling
you are waiting eagerly for tomorrows "tee-off", and I don't mean the Buick Open.
It's funny how Wie seems to bring even the basher crowds for someone who
is "soooo overated."
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
re: records for first-year pros -
Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.
Wie will win soon enough. Only her Bashers have their panties in a bunch
as to when.
------------------------------------------------------------
2006-08-02 @ 12:35
The whole problem with Baldwin, Alex and the whole slamming/bashing/bitching
crew is that they are like most children. American society has raised expectations
so that the aforementioned group demand instant gratification and when they don't
get it, they whine and snivel like spoiled brats.
It's all everyone elses fault. You see, as far as they are concerned, MW is a
machine that should produce instantaneous results to match those ingrates expectations.
Besides, where else can Alex show of his snide mouth anonymously with out fear of retribution?
And then have the guts to chide others for being snide. That was one of your more humorous posts, Alex.
admitting Michelle will win. I'm back in your fan
club.
Ford and George, stop ending your nasty comments with
"I do not slight Michelle here" or "this is not
personal attack on Michelle." Who do you think you
are fooling? What you have done is nothing but those.
George, you just looooooooooove Creamer. We got it.
But nobody cares about the overrated "the pink panther."
included the entire section so it wouldnt be taken out
of context.... she said it... Now, when others say
things like this about MW.. you always go on and on about
the negative venom they put out... well, how about some
of the same condemnation here!!!!! all you have to be
is consistent....
"records" set by Bubbles as a first-year pro. Since she isn't an LPGA member, where are her records written? Where are these "record" books? How can she have set a first-year record when her first year as a pro isn't over yet? Isn't that like saying that a guy that went 4 for 4 in his first major league baseball game has set a record for a rookie batting average? (That would be 1.000 for you Wie Warriors, as opposed to Bubbles' winning average of 0.000)putt4par, it's a darn good thing that you Wie Warriors don't demand instant gratification. I don't demand it either. But I do believe that a win in 40+ odd tournaments isn't too much to ask from someone touted to be the savior of women's golf if not golf in general
Wie is seven events into her pro career, smashing records, and we're supposed
to get into a Big-Frazzled-Frenzie about winning NOW? Come up with another tactic.
That one is stale. Your quote that Michelle, "...will win some day, maybe even
this weekend", puts you on both sides of your own issue. So you're wrong either way.
Ghet_Rheel, the rebuttal from the bashers seems tame by recent standards!
Alez, Wie will win soon.
Bashers in general - As much as you are bagging on Wie Warriors, I have the feeling
you are waiting eagerly for tomorrows "tee-off", and I don't mean the Buick Open.
I'm neither a basher or warrior, never will be either. But what I am not is
eagerly awaiting some more lackluster coverage from the networks. 2 hours
aitime thursday and friday, and 1 1/2 hour on the weekend. What a joke.
The final of a womans major and all we will get is the final 6 holes on the
weekend. And this is with the woman who is supposed to take the LPGA to another level
and who by the way is playing extremely well. The tape delay of the Evian
was a total farce. I like many follow the PGA mostly. The only time I watch the LPGA
is when big names are in contention and it doesn't coincide with a big PGA event.
At least we get live coverage, and all day coverage of our majors. The lack of a
television deal is killing this tour. CBS , NBC, and The Golf Channel all have comitted
big dollars to the PGA for the rights. No one is interested in doing so for the
LPGA. ABC is the only major network left and their 1 1/2 hours of coverage each day
of a major shows their interest. Not much. Golf is not a big ratings drawing. The only
time they get respectable ratings is if Tiger is in contention for a major. The PGA
draws small audiences usually, followed by the Champions tour and then the LPGA. The
Nationwide draws comparable numbers to the LPGA. And this will not be changing,
the networks do much better with other sports. I have been watching golf on TV
since the 60's. While the LPGA has grown in that time, it has grown nothing
like the PGA has, even before Tiger. From their television deals the PGA puts
65% of that money into their purses. The LPGA has to buy airtime and rely
on selling ads. And not to mention the major corporate sponshorship dollars that go
to the PGA. Noplayer on the LPGA has had Tiger-like impact. Nancy Lopez probably came the closest.
You can thank her for what coverage you do have now. Annika, arguably one of the
greatest women players of all time, didn't affect this. Michelle Wie is this tours best
chance. Instead of working against her, the LPGA needs to embrace her and get her
playing full time as a member. For unless they secure a TV deal, it will always get
2nd rate coverage like they are this weekend.
Putt4Par.... I wasnt spinning her comments... I even
included the entire section so it wouldnt be taken out
of context.... she said it...
Ok, if what you are saying is true, who was she reffering to?
In order to make comments about others, she would need a specified target?
It appeared she was commenting on her own game, nowhere in that article did she mention anyone else.
You were spinning, same as you all spin about how you aren't making personal comments
about MW. You like to spin it both ways to make yourself appear unbiased
when there is no chance of that at all.
The only way you could do that is to be as uniased with Morgan, Paula, Brittany and
all the rest of the LPGA players that have made comments about Wies performance.
Alex, your whole schtick is about elitism and instant gratification.
What is really funny is that most of your posts would give you the appearence of being
a teenager with a teeagers snotty mouth.
Smails, your inability to communicate an idea or posit an argument without
your belittling and childish remarks, renders all your arguments meaningless.
"Michelle Wie is this tours best chance. Instead of working
against her, the LPGA needs to embrace her and get her
playing full time as a member."
Couldn't agree with you more. If Bivens can't/won't do it, the LPGA
needs new leadership. Bivens could become a hero by picking up the phone
and gettin SONY, Nike, Rolex, and William Morris on a conference call. That group
could package the LPGA for a decade of success. Sponsors have one demand of TV
programmers - mass audience viewership.
Tiger means mass TV viewers. Wie means mass TV viewers. No other golf figures come close.
Watch the Wie galleries this weekend. Wie is big-time box office. If the old guard
balks, Bivens should dump 'em. If the old guard is smart, they'll join the parade. If they
act soon enough, they could lead the parade. John Nash (Game Theory) would bet against the
old guard leading the parade.
Ford, thanks for correcting my mistake.
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
I think Laura summed up what we all feel about bloggers and posters
who dismiss Michelle's level of play:
Telegraph Online UK
Davies and Wie show mutual respect
By Lewine Mair
As for Davies, she sees Wie as the proverbial breath of fresh air.
"Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous,"
she said in these columns yesterday.
*****
1putt,
the stupidity of your posts argues otherwise, but again I ask:
Can you possibly be this thick?
I'll spell it out for you and the other Wie Warrior bozos one final time. I hope you
see this, and having seen it, I can only pray you have brains to comprehend this. But
my hope is faint.
So here it goes, my view on Wie and her lackwit acolytes. (One more time)
1. Michelle is very talented. How talented she is will be shown by time.
Her results will dictate how she will be assessed.
2. There is not one Wie Warrior who can tell us for sure what kind of person she is.
I certainly don't claim to be able to do so. The only thing we know for sure is how she
does on a golf course and whether she wins or loses. The real Michelle Wie is known only
to her family and friends. You don't know her. You only see the public persona.
3. The real source of the controversy -- and entertainment -- on these blogs
is the Wie Warriors.
You dolts are straight out of fandom central casting. You are the kind of numbskulls
who become the butt of jokes even at Star Trek - Star Wars - ComicCon conventions.
Your paranoia, thin skins, fury, hyper-sensitivity, drooling worship of an athlete is
the ultimate in silliness.
Got it? It's not about Michelle.
I actually couldn't give a rat's ass how she does.
The only thing that keeps me checking this site is to see who can post the next
moronic comment about Michelle: Baldwin, Wolfrum, Mario, 1-putt, Coulthard, Jenney, Golfer, et al
Right now it's a photo finish.
-George
smashing records." Unbelievable.
One-Putt, I fall into the category of people who don't give a rats ass about over-the-hill, overweight LPGA players think. I still have not yet figured out how questioning Michelle's ability to win brands someone crackers or jealous."
Thanks for responding to the survey Ford and confirming you fall into both categories.
I'm sure you said the same things about Karrie Webb last season, overweight, over the hill.
Laura played her first tournament rounds with Michelle when she was 12. She was impressed with her game then and can see what level she is playing at now. Laura understands what it takes to play at the level Michelle is week after week, month after month, year after year.
Michelle may not have won an event yet and if you really analyze what is happening in the few events she does enter you find something interesting. When Michelle enters an event the level of play of those around her rises. She is becoming a catalyst for good play for those players that realize they had better get their wins in now.
Kathy Whitworth did not win until her third year on the tour and we know what happened after that first win, a women's record that still stands today.
In the five LPGA regular tour events Annika and Michelle have appeared in the same field, Annika has finished ahead of Michelle only once with her win at the US Women's Open.
Se Ri Pak, one time out of five events when she won the McDonald's LPGA.
Lorena Ochoa, one time out of six events at the KNC where she came in second after a playoff.
Karrie Webb leads the way by fininshing three times this year ahead of Michelle out of six events. The McDonald's where she finished second and wins at the KNC and Evian.
Paula Creamer, none.
Morgan Pressel, None.
Ay Miyazato, None.
Seon Hwa Lee the Rolex rookie of the year points leader, one time at the Fields open where she finished second after a playoff. In Major championships none of the rookie class have finished ahead of Michelle in the field.
It is fairly obvious to the players around Michelle they will have to step it up and play their best to finish ahead of her in the field. Some are up to the task and others are not.
Maybe you can't see it Ford but the ladies playing the LPGA tour get it. They had better get their wins in now, as there is a long dry spell visible on the horizon. Michelle has an eight year headstart at sixteen years old to gain a win compared to when Kathy Whitworth won her first event back in 1962. Michelle will have many wins by the time she is 24. Maybe she will get one this week.
Laura definitely "gets it" and has earned the right to say people who don't are crackers or jealous. If looks or age were a measure of a person's character, I would pick old and or fat every time, over thin and conceited.
In case you haven't noticed, neither your opinion nor mine carries
any weight whatsoever in the world of golf.
Laura Davies, on the other hand, is a respected figure in the game - and
a likely Hall of Famer. Her comment speaks volumes about her first-hand impressions
of Michelle to an international readership:
"Anyone who has any complaints about Michelle is either crackers or a bit jealous."
Laura Davies
Laura spent two days with Michelle at Evian under pressure-packed conditions. George,
you learn alot about people on a golf course. Laura's impressions are significant. She
knows of what she speaks.
Classy lady, Laura
1. Michelle is very talented. How talented she is will be shown by time.
Her results will dictate how she will be assessed.
2. I can only go by her public persona, which for her age is professional, polite, and
charming
3. The real source of the controversy -- and entertainment -- on these blogs
is the Wie detractors.
You idiots are straight out of a muppet skit, you remind me of the 2 old grumps that
could not find the good in anything. Your insipid attacks against this young lady, despite
all the evidence to the contrary is contemptable. At least Ford and some of the others keep
these discussions at a respectful level.
I rarely watched the LPGA before Michelle Wie started playing and do so now because it causes me the
same enjoyment that I got when Tiger Woods first started on the PGA. I agree wholeheartedly on the
point that the LPGA is missing the boat on this. The galleries surrounding Michelle Wie has been larger
than that of any other female golfer in any match this year. This should tell you that hype or not, if the LPGA
wants to improve their lot in life they would do well to start wooing Ms Wie.
Alex, I'm afraid you have scored well in both categories as Ford did, so I will log you down as Crackers and Jealous. If it has never been done before it must be historical. Thanks for responding.
Monkey Brain I have you logged in as "Insane", a new category assigned just for you. Thanks for the unsolicited response.
I'm still waiting for a few responses, so I can log their choices into the crackers or jealous data base. Hopefully we won't get any more responses from posters who drag their knuckles on the ground to stay upright.
You tell me you are a 62 year-old "Junior Partner" in
a small law firm (your web link still says you're a self-employed software
designer); so, either way, I'll try to explain it to you in small
words, one more time.
re: records for first-year pros -
Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.
If you and the LPGA are too dense and self-absorbed to recognize these
records, I can't help ya.
C'mon Jenney, you're missing all the fun.
Wie Supporters, warriors, whatever:
Michelle Wie is playing better all the time
She has done better this year
She has won more money per event than any other LPGA player
She has a better stroke ave per 18 holes
She is the most consistant golfer in the LPGA this year
She is putting better
She is the ONLY 16 y/o player to ever compete at this level EVER
She will start winning at an astonishing level (ok this is an opinion)
Wie Detractors:
She hasn't won,
She will never win
She is all hype
She does not belong on the LPGA or PGA tours
believing in something despite all evidence to the contrary
is the mark of an OJ Loonie
The evidence of the supporters of Ms Wie is overwhelming
Objection sustained:
Being called crackers by a post traumatic, burnt-out former tunnel rat is the best laugh I have had today, so thanks for that. Jealous of a winless teen golfer...I think not.
Attention Wie Warriors! There has been a new, revolutionary statistic
just formulated to judge the abilty of golfers. It's really
something you might understand . It's called the NUMBER OF WINS!
What a novel idea! Very easy to comprehend for most people.
________________________
Alex,
When discussing a girl, who is at an age, where nobogy has won, it's pretty
obvious what the comparisons give in terms of number of wins. That is an
equal number because who has won as a 16 year old on the lpga tour?
So since, number of wins is equal, you should go to other forms of measure.
Wie's results are magnificant. For anyone to have top 5's in the first 6 events
of a season, is brilliant.
How the mighty have fallen: I remember a time just a few short years ago when Wie fans predicted and awaited their saviors first win, soon to be followed by total world domination. You see, Michelle was doing exactly what she is doing now, placing in the top 5 of LPGA events and actually coming closer to making the cut in men's events. Fast forward a couple of years and her fans are still waiting for that first win, but now they celebrate her consistency and her top 5 finishes and warn the world of her imminent arrival. I have said it a million times if you are happy with Michelle Wie losing to the Karrie Webb's and Lorena Ochoa's of the world fine by me, but don't talk so confidently about her future since you are the very people who doubt her the most.
everytime I say that her results don't match the hype, I am correct and everytime she falters down the
stretch she proves my theories about her fragile mental state for me.
______________________________
Ford, you have just proved yourself to be very stupid. Michelle has not faltered down the stretch one single time,
this season. Not once. She has been in contention in all the 5 stroke play events she has played, and she has been
in there and played well right to the climax of the tournament.
I am glad you made your stupid statement. While you have pretended on occasion, to be some sort of level headed chap,
who only doesn't like the Wiemaniacs, your statement shows how clueless you are.
Have you watched any of the tournament, or are you just a follower of the Baldie one, and just believe whatever his
blogs say?
At least your stupid comments should show anyone who had any sympathy to your position, that you are just as clueless
as Alex.
One good thing about Alex, at least he is a leader among the anti-Wie movement. Alex, well done on your new status, you
were once a lapdog for Under Par, and you have been exalted to one of the very head bashers. Your progress up the bashers
chain has been as quick as Morgan Pressel's progress down the world rankings lists.
Ford comment:
How the mighty have fallen: I remember a time just a few short years ago when Wie fans predicted
and awaited their saviors first win,
___________________________
She will win soon. I predict before the end of the 2007 season. That's what I predicted before
the 2006 season started, and if she achieves that win before the end of 2007, that will be magnificant.
____________________________
Ford comment:
Michelle was doing exactly what she is doing now, placing in the top 5 of LPGA events and actually coming closer to
making the cut in men's events. Fast forward a couple of years and her fans are still waiting for that first win,
____________________________
Actually, Michelle was placing in the top 5 sometimes, but usually quite a distance from the winner.
8 shots behind Annika with 9 to play at the lgpa championship.
11 shots behind Paula with 1 round to play at the Evian.
Although Wie had some high finishes in 2005, they were very different to the 2006 placings.
In 2006, she has contended for titles and if she had got the luck that Karrie Webb did, such as chipping
in from the fairway, then Michelle would already have won a touranment.
1. Wie Warriers:
They support Wie with alot of dedication and obsession.
2. Wie Bashers:
They oppose Wie with alot of dedication and obsession.
As an intelligent man, I wonder what each side gains from their obsessions.
The Wie Warriers probably get great joy at watching and cheering on their favourite player.
What do the Wie Bashers get?
It is easy to understand the benefits that fans get from being fans of a player.
But what do bashers get?
It's entertaining in a pro-wrestling-sort-of-way.
"One good thing about Alex, at least he is a leader among the anti-Wie movement. Alex, well done on your new status, you
were once a lapdog for Under Par, and you have been exalted to one of the very head bashers. Your progress up the bashers
chain has been as quick as Morgan Pressel's progress down the world rankings lists."
Good one! Cracked me up.
----------------------------
Neck pain, high blood pressure, late night sleep, fights with a spouse for
spending hours arguing about a kid they absolutely think nothing of.
She is THE most consistent women golfer this year. She may not have won
but each time she comes in the top5 she is beating about a hundred plus
of the best women golfers in the world. (Evian only 70 or so)Nobody, not Annika
Lorena, Karrie, or Se Ri has golfed that consistently. To be # 2 or 3 out of a
hundred plus golfers every time you play is an amazing feat.
Here's one that should get your dander, i say she is golfing way beyond the hype.
No 16 year old, male or female has ever golfed this well.
Why is this view of reality called worshipful, delusional and all the other claims
you make about the Wie warriors?
criticism due to Michelle Wie being ranked too high.
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2537392
Now I could care less where they rank Ms Wie in the standings, it will make no
difference to my tuning in to watch her golf. It does seem to be another example
of the "Shoot self in Foot" attitude of the powers that be in women's golf in regards to
Michelle. This young lady is the most watched female golfer on the planet right now.
I don't care if you believe it is fluff and hype or genuine interest in a golf phenom, why
do they continue to try and distance themselves from the most popular golfer at their
tournaments?
If you believe that top 5's on the LPGA are good enough for Michelle, if you think she is content with this then by all means keep bragging, but you and I both know that that's not how Michelle has been marketed and packaged.
But what do bashers get? "
They get a kick out of baiting people. It's one way of getting pleasure when your alone with your computer. There several levels of baiter, starting with junior baiter, then senior baiter, and if they are really good, they become masters.
Nobody is denying that she's an excellent golfer.
Nobody is saying that she's a terrible person.
She is one of the top five female golfers in the world.
That's it.
She doesn't belong on the PGA tour, she's proven that she can't hang.
She hasn't won on the LPGA tour, she's proven that she can't finish strong (two-shot lead
with seven to play, including two par-5's)
She will win, probably this year. Until then, it's completely reasonable to call her
"overhyped". Once she learns to win, it's just as reasonable to expect that she will
win frequently. If she doesn't, she will join the Gulbis' and Kournikova's of the world
who get more adulation than they deserve.
And it's the Wie-warriors inability to understand that basic paradigm that leads to the
"bashing".
Karrie played her last 3 holes in 7 under and deservedly won the Evian Masters.
You can try to pin blame on anyone else, but the fact remains that Karrie was the deserving winner there.
Wie did not falter. She played the last holes in 3 under par. She had a -4 68 in the 4th round. That was very
good play and was equal to Karrie's round. Unfortunately it wasn't good enough to win, but it was very good and
was certainly not faltering in any way.
her the Kournikova of womens golf. Lets let her get a high
school diploma first and start golfing full time
before we set her up for that. Call me whatever you will but,
it totally blows my mind that a full time student in High
School has taken a little time off from school and went golfing
with the best women in the world, AND KICKED MOST OF THEIR ASSES
EVERY TIME SHE GOES OUT. I love it, that is just so
great to watch. It's baffling why it bothers so many of you
that us fans are getting so much enjoyment from watching her.
------------------
Baiters turned into baited quickly. Just see the increasingly lengthy responses from so-called baiters. Even the master-wannabe, Alex, can't help it. But, hei, I am still a fan.
Here's what she says about Michelle Wie. Latest interview in the LPGA website.
Q. Playing with her at Evian, what do you see in Michelle's game
KARRIE WEBB: I think she's definitely coming along. You know, it's only time before she wins. She's definitely very, very talented. And as far as you know physically talented, she's probably the most talented person out here as far as the gift that she's been given as far as her height and strength and everything like that. Because she's been given great coaching at such a young age, she's got all the shots.
And she's learning to win the hard way, where we learned to win golf tournaments as juniors and amateurs; she's getting that experience, just at the biggest level in the world.
So I think it's all good learning experience for her. I think that like I said, it's just a matter of time before she wins. And she could have won. She played very well on the last round last week and she could very easily have won. That's the thing with golf and what a lot of people don't understand is if you go through a few years where you win everything, people think it must be pretty easy to win. But it's such a fine line between winning and finishing second or even fifth, 10th.
You know, I have no doubt that she'll be a force to reckon with throughout the next ten, 20 years.
Q. Can you compare Michelle now with what you were like at that age?
KARRIE WEBB: There's no comparison. I was playing junior golf and represented Australia for the first time at 16 but I wasn't even thinking about turning pro or competing against the best women in the world, let alone competing against the men as well. I don't think there's many 16 year olds that you can really compare Michelle to.
And you think Wie faltered? You need glasses or a new brain, which ever is easier to install.
is the issue, it's her sometimes lunatic fans that make outlandish
statements that rile people... then after making statements
such as..."she's the best golfer today..." and MW loses, then the
excuses start.... it just gets very OLD!
intellegent man??? MW had a 2 shot lead, then promptly bogied,
had pars until the last hole and the received a birdie... for someone
whose "superior" length off the tee could only achieve par on one of
the shorter courses is beyond belief.... I only say this because of
her "fans" make such a big deal about how she is so much longer
than everyone else.....lastly, she played her last 7 holes
at even par... where do you get the 3 under from.... im talking 4th
round only...
on the LPOGA Tour, she's proven she can't finish strong
(two shot lead iwth seven to play including two par 5s)
She will win, probably this year.
Until then it's completely reasonable to call her "overhyped".
Michelle has only two LPGA events left this year.
Todd is saying she will probably win at least one of the two(better than a 50% chance)
Last year I predicted that Michelle Wie would win at least two Majors this year
--at least half the Majors. That won't happen.
Bur now Todd is saying something similar will probably happen.
Michelle Wie will probably win at least half of her remaining events.
And even though he is making this claim, he seems to be calling he overhyped.
*Karrie played her last 3 holes in 7 under*
Let's see, Karrie got a par on 18. So did
she precede that with a couple of double eagles
that weren't on TV? Did she win by 5 strokes and
nobody told us?
Or is "Intelligent Man" supposed to be ironic?
-George
Michelle Wie did play the last holes at 3 under at the Evian.
She played the last 10 holes at 3 under.
This number was chosen to make her finish look as good as possible.
If you want to make her finish look as bad as possible,
look at the last 6 or 7 and get EVEN.
Look at any other number of holes from one to ten and you get one under.
Obviously Intellligent Man meant to say that Karrie played the last
7 holes at 3 under, which is true. Knowing this to be the case, I did
not even notice the numbers were switched.
Congratulations for noticing the error.
Alex is back to true form. After cutting the apron strings and being his own man for a while, he has gone back to
his minders.
"Hey Judge Smails, hey what do you think of the Alan Cup, like that's the juvenile sort of thing that we set up to
rate people who comment" "hey Judge is it okay if I say stupid things about people, hey judge".
Alex, you have taken a backward step.
You should persevere, ask Judge Smails to cut the apron strings and allow you to run along like a good little boy. Come on
Alex, you can do it.
Even if she doesn't win, you can't really call Wiesy
the Kournikova of golf until at least she puts out her
own calendar and gets an FHM profile. Not to diss
Gulbis, but really she's the Kournikova of golf. Why
can't people get that straight? And even Creamer has
her own calendar.
Wiesy's people have obviously been negligent on this
matter, but wait... that's totally creepy, because
she's only sixteen years old.
I think once she wins something, she'll be the
Maria Sharapova of golf. After all, they both like
dangly earrings.
Then she probably WON'T win. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
That's rather false logic. Take this situation:
Someone has a two stroke lead birdies 5 of 7 holes. The person behind them birdies 6 of the 7 and eagles another. Would the person in the lead then have faltered? Of course, Wie's situation isn't the same, but losing a two stroke lead with seven to play is not always faltering, as you seem to imply.
Alex is part of the Alan Cup committee and, as such, has decision making power with respect to which example of Wie-zeal lunacy will be deemed as having descended below the rest. I, on the other hand, operate in an unofficial capacity only. All I can do is bring to light stupidity that may have escaped the committee's notice.
Alex,
Yes, Johnny really stuck his neck out with that bold prediction. I predict that we're going to have a hurricane somewhere in the continental US before the end of the 2007 season.
You have never explained (or corrected) your dual identity. That seems
dumb. Butcher, baker, candlestick maker? Until you clear this up you're
just a phoney to me. Please don't offer the Austin Powers defense again
("that's not BAG, man"). There is the possibility that you are merely stupid,
so keep I'll keep repeating the following until you "get it":
Alex
[In a Dave M. blog] You tell me you are a 62 year-old "Junior Partner" in
a small law firm (your web link still says you're a self-employed software
designer); so, either way, I'll try to explain it to you in small
words, one more time.
re: records for first-year pros -
Most consecutive top 5's, lowest scoring average, highest winnings per
event. You could list many more first-year marks, but the three above
are highly significant. Scoring average has always been king in pro golf.
She's half-a-stroke+ per round ahead of them all. That's 2+ strokes (per 4-day
tourney) ahead of Webb and Sorenstam, and 8+ strokes ahead of Creamer.
If you and the LPGA are too dense and self-absorbed to recognize these
records, I can't help ya.
"That's not my BAG, man"
Putt4Par--It's really very simple, Wie held the lead at the Evian with 7 holes to play if she did not falter she would have won. You are in a precarious spot here Putt, if you argue that Karrie Webb got lucky, you are undoubtably a whiner (remember your post reminding us all not to claim that Michelle got lucky should she ever win anything), if you say that Webb just played better(hich she has twice now down the stretch) you are once again acknowledging that the transcendant game of your saviour is not enough to beat the women. So which is it little man, did she falter, was it bad breaks and luck or is she simply not good enough?
I give Michelle full credit for her high finishes and consistency, but she has had ample oppurtunity to win and not only has she not won, but she seems to be inventing new ways to lose. Eventually you have to look at her near misses as an indication of a problem winning--Congratulations Michelle you have proven you can contend(we knew this 2 years ago), time to take the next step.
THANKS FOR POINTING OUT THE MONIES THAT MICHELLE HAS GIVEN TO CHARITIES. PRESENT COUNT IS AROUND $800,000 DOLLARS. NAME ONE LPGA GOLFER THAT HAS GIVEN 1/10TH THAT AMOUNT TO CHARITY. THEN YOU HAVE LOVABLE BRITTANY THAT DOESN'T PAY HER FATHER A CENT FOR CADDYING FOR HER, BUT, INSTEAD GIVES HIM A BANANA WHEN HE WAS STRUGGLING IN THE MATCH PLAY TOURNAMENT. HMMM, SO SHE WANTS TO RETIRE AT 35 HUH!! WOW, WHAT A REAL SWEETHEART OF A GIRL...LIKE I HAD POSTED BEFORE, "A SPOILED LITTLE SNOTNOSE GOLFER"
undercut the respondents credibility before the quality of the comment can be used
against my argument! Back to Slick Willy tactics.
Intelligent Man, you bring up precisely the issue: what do the Dark Trio get for their
negative efforts? John D (where has he been? Wait, I don't really want to know) enjoys
simple belittlement and third grade taunts. No accounting for what he gets out of it.
UnderSmails has hard core misogyny on the mind. He hates the idea of women having any
status in society other than homemaker and man-tender. Alex is the interesting case -
he has underlying issues that are not at all clear. Something weighs on his psyche though.
ToddCommish - yes, she can only play in two more tournaments. And this also explains why
she should continue to play on PGA Tour events. Since she cannot play more than eight LPGA
tournaments in a year for the next two years, and she cannot play in men's or women's
amateur events any more, where else should she go to play? If she is getting PGA Tour
event exemptions, and can't play in more LPGA events than she is already, it seems crazy
to pass up the opportunity to work on her game in tournament level play. This also helps
explain her decision to turn pro last year, and to play in LPGA and PGA events even before
that. The Wie family was not a rich family. There are very limited Junior and Amateur
events in Hawaii, with limited fields. To play a serious Junior or Amateur schedule, she
would need to fly to the mainland and spend weeks there, or fly back and forth many, many
times a year. Not only was this beyond her family's financial capability, it's also
extremely difficult to maintain any kind of school schedule with that effort.
If you want to be a serious golfer at the Junior level and you live in Hawaii, you need to
have the cash to travel a lot, or you need to move to the mainland. The Wie family avoided
moving by having her play in LPGA and PGA events in Hawaii, and by turning pro to have the
finances necessary to play a full slate of summer events, and some during-the-school-year
events on selected weekends. Most Junior level players don't have the game to do that.
Michelle clearly does - as Ron Sirak pointed out in a recent article on ESPN.com, Wie has
played in 11 LPGA majors, two of them when she was 13 years old, and has 6 top fives, 9
top fifteens, and has made the cut EVERY TIME.
But none of that matters to the Dark Trio. They don't think Michelle should be playing golf
at all, according to UnderSmails. Women playing golf is just another element in the global
liberal media driven masculinization of the female gender which continues to tear at the
very fabric of human existence. But he's really a great guy ladies...you just have to get
to know him. And enjoy being subservient.
Let me clear this up for the other readers. Probably won’t help you, as you seem to be in deep denial.
In two of Dave Marrandette’s recent blogs you claim to be an attorney.
First Dave M. blog – posted Friday July 14, 2006 | 06:52:48 pm
Title - “Wie can tell you why golf blogs are a balancing act”
On 07/19/06 at 13:29 you wrote:
“Ghet Rheel, I HAVE been an attorney for more than 25 years…”
On 07/20/06 at 18:34 you wrote:
“I am a junior partner in a law firm…”
Second Dave M. blog – posted Monday July 24, 2006 | 10:05:37 am
Title - “Tiger, Annika, and Michelle Wie on the phone”
07/28/06 at 08:13 you wrote:
“I will add that I am 61 years old…"
When we click on the web link next to your name (in all your comment
boxes) - (http://Alex) we read:
“About Alex King
I've been self-employed as an independent software developer
since I moved from the Bay Area to Denver, Colorado in January 2004.”
If you really are a 61 year old “Junior Partner” in a smallish
Chicago area law firm then I feel for ya brother - that would
explain a lot. Tough goin’ up the old "ladder of success" in your own
chosen profession, eh?
If you are not Alex King then delete the link from the Site/URL: box at the
bottom of every blog.
Have someone explain all this to ya, Alex. It is all quite clear, trust me.
But you are a much more recognized authority on that particular round of golf so therefore your
opinion is the correct opinion? Is that the gist of your argument? I don't believe that
even Karrie Webb suggested the Michelle faltered, but of course it sounds so much more
sinister if you can spin it as a falter, a choke or anything else so that your view
can be sustained.
And you have the collosal nerve to accuse me of whining? Muahahahahahahaha.... Yup,
that'd be me alright.
You are a sore loser Ford. Go take a prozac, kick back and watch some summo wrestling , you
obviously know very little about golf.
Great overview of the fun that is to be had
with the "Dark Trio." But you forgot to add,
apparently they think Communism is behind it
all.
I've tried to explain to Alex exactly
how to remove the Site/Url:. But it
seems as though as soon as he reads
"Site/Url:" his eyes glaze over. He
has no idea what that means apparently.
Either that, or he doesn't know how to
use his delete key.
Sorry for my previous absence. I'm actually flying
home(Yes Alex they allow me back there) in a couple
hours and won't be back till mid/late August.
Though these golf blogs are immensely entertaining,
I think I will be otherwise preoccupied. Maybe I'll
even have time to play some golf.
And whatever happens with Wiesy at Weetabix, I'll think of
you all.
Oh and I totally stand by what I said previously, I
think Sergio Garcia's shirts are perfectly lovely.
in and played the final fifteen holes in -1. She'll likely be within
about four or five shots of the lead by the end of the day. Solid round.
Great recovery from three-over after three.
Let's see, what was I doing the summer I was sixteen?
First of all I am not a Wie fan. Second, I was making the point that losing a two shot lead is not necessarily faltering, as you implied.
See what I mean? So before you insult someone, you should at least try to understand what they are saying first. I know it takes effort, but there you go.
I see your usual response to any disagreement is a threat of violence.
As I said before, you may want to take up Sumo wrestling to take the edge
off your anger and need for violent conflicts. Oh, yeah, I hear there are
some really great deals on the web for prozac, vallium and assorted tranquilizer.
You really should take advantage of that.
By the way, you might want to look at Karrie Webbs card today. Now that
triple bogey on the 6th hole looks more like faltering than the
Sunday finish of MW at the Evian. Her first round score is a 76.
Can we say that Karries luck ran the other way today? Hmmmmm?
Maybe you missed the following posted earlier - more than likely you're trying to hide from it.
In two of Dave Marrandette’s recent blogs you claim to be an attorney. (a 61 year-old "Junior Partner")
The little blue link next to your name leads to a site that says your a self-employed designer.
Are you a software designer with delusions of mediocrity - dreaming of being a geriatric junior partner?
Are you a geriatric junior partner who can't operate a delete key?
The dates and times that you claim to be an attorney:
First Dave M. blog – posted Friday July 14, 2006 | 06:52:48 pm
Title - “Wie can tell you why golf blogs are a balancing act”
On 07/19/06 at 13:29 you wrote:
“Ghet Rheel, I HAVE been an attorney for more than 25 years…”
On 07/20/06 at 18:34 you wrote:
“I am a junior partner in a law firm…”
Second Dave M. blog – posted Monday July 24, 2006 | 10:05:37 am
Title - “Tiger, Annika, and Michelle Wie on the phone”
07/28/06 at 08:13 you wrote:
“I will add that I am 61 years old…"
When we click on the web link next to your name (in all your comment
boxes) - (http://Alex) we read:
“About Alex King
I've been self-employed as an independent software developer
since I moved from the Bay Area to Denver, Colorado in January 2004.”
If you really are a 61 year old “Junior Partner” in a smallish
Chicago area law firm then I feel for ya brother - that would
explain a lot. Tough goin’ up the old "ladder of success" in your own
chosen profession, eh?
If you are not Alex King then delete the link from the Site/URL: box at the
bottom of every blog.
Have someone explain all this to ya, Alex. It is all quite clear, trust me.
Really, get some help
You see where you type messages?
There is a large box, and three smaller boxes further up.
The bottom of those small rectangular objects says "site/url". Delete anything in this box. That's your problem solved.
74...Spinning, spinning. Got it--Michelle's just laying in wait prefering not to go out to quickly and conserve her energy for the stretch run, where she always shines.
40 lawyer firm? No wonder he's bitter.
But if you feel the urge to be called those names, then
stand in front of a mirror and commence firing.
I did call you a sore loser tho and I was sorry to see you
refer to yourself as a coward but what the heck.
Yup, yup, spinning spinning, Webb at 76. The whole discussion
was your premise of Wie faltering. But heck, you call it any way
you like. It's really easy to keep poking at a 16 year old girl.
Ahh.... wait, wait...I hear it coming.....
with his/her/its logical retardation.
ah, yes...and Michelle Wie will never win anything.
Would you put money on that?
These are ABSOLUTE DEADLINES for me. After these dates I will go in to the
deep dark despair that the Wie detractors so dearly wish upon her supporters.
Date One: July 18, 2009
Date Two: April 10, 2012
After "date one" Michelle will have forever lost the opportunity
to have her first pro win at an age younger than Tiger Woods.
After "date two" Michelle will have forever lost the opportunity
to have her first pro win at an age younger than Jack Nicklaus.
If she wins anytime before either of these dates, she'll be way ahead of
the mark set by at least one the legendary golfers of our time.
Sure, one could argue that there are other "first win" target dates of some significance, but I
believe these may be the ones most important to her true supporters.
some day. Wie should emulate legends. I also think that whoever is promoting
Paula (yes, pro golf IS a business) could learn a lot from Nike, Sony, etc.
Do happen to know "Johnny Dark". Johnny Dark is the 61 year-old
CBS page on the Letterman Late Show. Since he's the only 61 year-old
page I've ever heard of, and you're the only 61 year-old Junior Partner
I've ever heard of, I thought maybe you'd crossed paths.
61... Junior Partner... Wow, that's funny!! Who knows your talents better than your
own law firm? Hey Alex - The tribe has spoken.
business bookings sufficient to be named full partner. You obviously
are mediocre in your "chosen field" or you would have acquired one or
the other by now. "Retirement age" Juniors in small firms are as rare as hens teeth.
You ask why I seldom answer your questions. I see you as a Child Abuser.
It is that simple. You can blame it on BJ or Nike or whomever you wish -
but I see you as a Child Abuser. Leave the teenage girl alone.
Yes, I believe the comments that you and Alex and Smails make are abusive.
Michelle is still a child. That is child abuse in my opinion. You, Alex, and Smails speak with one
voice (and in one writing style, and none of you can use an "enter" key).
I doubt Michelle reads your comments, but this IS a public forum. If one types "Michelle Wie"
and searches Google news, the travelgolf blogs appear on the first page of results. It is a safe
bet that other detractors and bullies use your comments as fodder for their abuse as well.
The Wall Street Journal has just written about Exxon's use of blogs and other internet PR tactics
to discredit Gore's recent film. Phoney grassroots public relations campaigns (astroturf, WSJ reports
is the industry term) are becoming common.
Sometimes people think they are invisible, but are merely transparent.
Karrie just shot an 82 and missed the cut.
That does not make her a bad golfer, just an unlucky golfer in this years BWO.
"If I were comment on Michelle's gawky appearence, her unusually small mouth,
her tendency to dress like a teen hooker or her verbal skills, which make her
sound like a stuttering and stammering child giving a book report then you would have a point."
Most of the world finds Michelle to be attractive, intellegent, graceful and articulate. She
is fluent in English and Korean, and conversant in Japanese and Chinese. If you think you've "covered"
yourself by saying "If I were to comment...", then you are only fooling yourself - no one else.
Yes, it is my opinion that you have committed verbal abuse against a child in a public forum. Call it
what you like. I think it is child abuse.
By the way, the next time your children appear before the cameras and mikes of the world's press - knowing
every word they say will be scrutinized... tell me then about her handling of such situation. I think she handles
herself brilliantly, on and off the course.
The vast majority of golf fans, new and old, are having a wonderful experience watching a rare talent
grow. It is like watching Mickey Mantle's rookie year with the Yankees (he batted .267 with 13 homers). Don't
you wish you could have been there so you could have panned him? Get off your high horse - Nobody's buying it.
While we certainly disagree on what consitutes child abuse, you do give me reason to pause and think about my stance on Michelle Wie. I have long argued that Michelle, while being a great talent has shown a troubling inability to close out tournaments, nothing wrong with that, but when comments I have made prompt claims of abuse(right or wrong) I must step back and look at said comments. I will never be head of Michelle's fan club, the overwhelming hype and her rabid fans will always prevent that, but I will in the future attempt to cease from making intentionally inflammatory remarks or negative statements about Michelle personally or her fan base. I am a devoted father, a well respected member of my community and a major contributer to charitable causes worldwide. It is unbecoming, in my opinion to be viewed, if even by just one person as a voice of negativity, so bear with me as I channel some positive energy.
I appreciate your carefully considered response. We must remember that
Michelle has harmed no one, ever. She is an innocent. All this media hysteria must be bewildering
to a gentle sixteen year-old girl who has only tried to excel, has merely done her best.
Again, thank you for youe response.
Ford, you are truly hilarious.
what you like. I think it is child abuse."
But not nearly as hilarious as Ghet Rheel.
And yes, Wie does dress like a teenaged hooker. Her parents and handlers are a disgrace.
best that can be said is that they are usually so unintelligent that no one pays
much attention. Please go crawl back into whatever hole you crawled out of.
ps the name fits
Please don't feel obligated to "go easy" with me. I certainly don't intend
to "go easy" on posters who "push my buttons". I do appreciate your thoughts
about MW - with the exception that I'd caution you not to "bet the farm" that MW
can't win at the highest levels. Hasn't won yet at 14, 15, or 16? - Safe bet.
Won't win at 16, 17, 18, or 19? - Tough bet at any odds.
As with most golfers, I think the lion's share of Michelle's wins will come between
the ages of 22 and 35. She'll still be 22 six years from now.
"grammer" should be "grammar", commie.
"Most of the world finds Michelle to be attractive,
intellegent, graceful and articulate."
Ghet Rheel not only pretends to speak for most of the world
but apparently he finds 16 year old girls attractive.
Very disturbing.
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