I've met my share of Canadians who love nothing more than to bash the current administration in my presence. While I believe in some of their views usually, sometimes I'm just sick of feeling like I have to defend my country's stances to outsiders.

I mean, I wanted to get rid of the two-line pass in hockey for a decade but I never shoved it down any of their throats.

good for him. there are hundreds of questions that have yet to be answered, not to mention the omissions and distortions in the 9/11 report. please watch '9/11: press for truth' on google video. it relies only on mainstream media for its sources. you may want to take back the 'loonies' crack before history exposes the truth.

There are some crazy conspiracy theories. There are also some conspiracy theories where cannot be proved directly, but rely on a preponderance of evidence and do stand up to the most stringent debates. The 'debunkers' usually rely on the theories that can be disproved easily, ignoring the ones that have some merit.

People don't come up with these theories for no reason. Unexplainable actions by the government along with a penchant for secrecy fuel these. WE SHOULD BE ASKING QUESTIONS. It is the basis for democracy.

I would recommend 9/11 Press for Truth. It's not kooky. It asks earnest questions by the victims family members.

Your anecdotal "story" reeks of prevarication. You needed a starting point to spew your reactionary idiocy and you made up a foursome with a "Canadian". Every word you write harms the game. You have no credibility when railing against Michelle Wie and you are even less credible when you spew your right wing talking points.
You are a sociopath and need psychological help immediately.

Chris, There you have it. Liberal kookery is alive and well in the good old USA.(And Canada as well.) A liberal kook once was speaking loudly in my presence that the WTC towers weren't destroyed by aircraft smashing into them at all. That they were in fact imploded, similar to what is done to Vegas casinos that have become obsolete. I asked him how the explosives could have been set in place with no one being aware of them. That it takes thousands of man hours to prepare a building one third the height and volume of the WTC towers for demolition by implosion. That many personnel and that amount of equipment and explosives could not be kept secret. But he was adamant. Bush had been planning this coup for years before he was even President, the conspirators were either paid handsomely or liquidated, they were intimidated and put in fear of their lives,etc. Bob Dobbs probably thinks along those same lines. Left wing, liberal kooks.

Hey Alex, who stood down NORAD?

The most unbelievable conspiracy theory is that a handful of box cutter weilding cave dwellers could usurp the most powerful air defense in the world.

Your willful ignorance is shameful.

Bob Dobbs, You have your opinions and I have mine. If you want to believe that everything is the result of some clandestine cabal, by all means feel free to do so. We who have a lot more common sense, will continue to see things as they are, not as we wish them to be. Not everyone wants to be viewed as a delusional, liberal, left wing kook. If that's how you want to be seen, have at it.

And your explanation of why trillions of dollars of aerial defenses were completely defeated by a dozen guys with boxcutters is what?

Common sense holds this conspiracy theory suspect.

It would seem you right wingers are the delusional folks. Not everyone wants to be viewed as willfully ignorant. If that is how you want to be seen, have at it.

Bob Dobbs, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain to you how a group of terrorists bent on destruction with no concern for their own safety and in fact committing suicide while in the process of said destruction, could accomplish their goals. But it happens all the time. Suicide/homicide bombers get through tough and sophisticated security measures all the time. If that explanation is too simplistic for you, that's just too bad. Do you believe that the WTC towers were imploded by Bush operatives, that Flight 93 never crashed in PA, and that the Pentagon was hit by a Bush-fired missile rather than a jet airplane? These fantasies are gospel to the real conspiracy theorists.

If Payne Stewart's jet was intercepted by NORAD in minutes, why were none of the 911 jets intercepted in an hour and a half? How was a huge jet able to hit the Pentagon through the most protected airspace in the world? You don't have the time, the inclination or the FACTS to explain that one.

It's fascinating that you keep bringing up the disinfo red herrings but refuse to deal with the real question that trumps all the others.

Bob Dobbs It's true that I don't have what you say are facts to explain why the jets were not intercepted. Do you have these facts? Since you are the one insinuating that 9-11 was an inside job, and if you have rhese "facts", what is your explanation? Please don't engage in the fallacy of asking why something didn't happen. Tell me why it DID happen.

9/11 TRUTH FOR BEGINNERS: http://www.journalof911studies.com/
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POLL: 42% SAY 9/11 COVERUP!!! "The next time the media marginalizes 9/11 skeptics - remind them that 42% of the American public believe there is a 9/11 coverup, then refer them to the older zogby poll from 2004 which found that "Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and 'Consciously Failed' To Act", and finally point out that over half of the country thinks they have done a bad job covering 9/11 questions and related issues.

"What does this poll do for us? Well, nothing if you don't get out there and pressure the media to cover it. The results of this poll show that over 40% of the American public believe there is an ongoing cover up of 9/11 - if that isn't news then I don't know what is.

"Note: These are just a few things I thought stood out, check out the other images and the final report linked above for more detail.
http://www.journalof911studies.com [click on "blog"]
Big thanks to 911truth.org for sponsoring this poll"
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Five Years On, 9/11 Truth Movement Reaches Critical Mass

- Near Majority Support, Powerful New Tools, and Energized Activism Promise Endgame Soon

September 11 Press Release
from 911truth.org

Escalating mainstream mistrust of "official 9/11 story" driven by important new films, books and activist campaigns; promises new openings for insurgent candidacies and radical reform initiatives.

September 11, 2006 (PRWEB) -- The year leading up to the fifth anniversary of the September 11 attacks has been marked by an unprecedented upsurge in public mistrust of the official story portrayed in the 9/11 Commission Report. Respected national polling firms Zogby and Scripps Howard have shown that less than half the public believes in the conclusions or integrity of the 9/11 Commission, and 36% of Americans now think the administration was actively complicit in the attacks to advance its preplanned Mideast war agenda.

This outburst of popular skepticism has come in spite of five years of lockstep support for the official 9/11 narrative by the national press, broadcast media, and both major political parties. The mounting distrust spans the political, religious and ethnic spectrums, and has been largely driven by compelling new films, books, whistleblower reports, and escalating grassroots activism. Collectively these resources and constituencies not only offer the country hope for a fresh and truly honest 9/11 probe, but also a potent new base for radical political reform....

...."Overall, however, the real message of 9/11 truth has now reached a critical mass of citizens, and ruthless defamation tactics may prolong the 'media controversy' but are ultimately doomed to fail. Truth has an inherent strange attractor force that cannot be dispelled, not by cynical propaganda nor overwhelming media power. It is in that lust for truth and justice that our democracy once began, and 9/11 truth now offers Americans the chance to feel that thrill again." http://www.911truth.org

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[9/11 DISINFOMEISTERS PANIC
Neonazicons Hunker in The Bunker]

2 US Reports Seek to Counter
Conspiracy Theories About 9/11

By Jim Dwyer
New York Times
September 2, 2006

[As 9/11's fifth anniversary nears and 9/11 skeptics approach majority status, the official story disinfo industry swings into high gear. Since the "no WTC demolitions" proponents are now largely relying on the "inconceivable logistic difficulties" of such a scheme, it's time for our research community to present a brief telling synopsis of the reported security lockdowns in various towers in the weeks before the attacks, Neil Bush's ties to the WTC security company, the call-off of the WTC dog patrols, etc. Jones, Ryan, Hoffman, et al. have helped elucidate the motives and means. We now need to document the opportunities. - 911truth.org Ed. ]

Faced with an angry minority of people who believe the Sept. 11 attacks were part of a shadowy and sprawling plot run by Americans, separate reports were published this week by the State Department and a federal science agency insisting that the catastrophes were caused by hijackers who used commercial airliners as weapons.
The official narrative of the attacks has been attacked as little more than a cover story by an assortment of radio hosts, academics, amateur filmmakers and others who have spread their arguments on the Internet and cable television in America and abroad. As a motive, they suggest that the Bush administration wanted to use the attacks to justify military action in the Middle East....

READ MORE: http://www.911truth.org

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PENTAGON MISSILE HOAX:

the "no Boeing" theories discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from proven evidence of complicity

the fake debate between no plane and no complicity gets the Bush regime off the hook
there is zero evidence for any of the "no plane" claims - hundreds of people saw Flight 77, none saw a cruise missile, Global Hawk robot plane, smaller plane or flying saucer piloted by giant lizards
the physical evidence shows that a large twin engine jet hit the nearly empty part of the Pentagon, the "Black Boxes" were found, cleanup crews found remains of the passengers, the "hole was too small" claim was a hoax making 9/11 complicity dependent on the no-plane claim was a brilliant tactic to discredit the real evidence for people inside the Beltway, both for the majority who vote against Bush and the political / military elites (especially the military officers who saw the plane crash or the plane debris)
the material on this page and all of the websites that are linked here should finally extinguish the "no plane" hoax -- except for those who have staked their credibility on these claims and cannot admit a mistake, and those who intentionally promote the hoax. Every claim for the "no plane" hoaxes is refuted here or at a page linked from this page....
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html
[This site will help clarify the Karl Rovian smoke&mirrors designed to confuse 911 hoax investigators and inquiring citizens, by setting up "straw man," decoy sites and theories, etc. They then "debunk" these, thus casting doubt on the GENUINE parts of the 911 truth investigations.

Check out Alexander Cockburn's most recent use of this nasty little trick in his nasty little "Beat The Devil" column in the September 2006 Nation magazine online, predictably titled "911 Conspiracy Nuts."]

See also: The purpose of "no planes" is to protect the plotters: http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

"Lots of military people saw the plane and wreckage, and making the conspiracy dependent on the "no plane hoax" gets Bush and Cheney off the hook. The issue is not what the peons (us) think about these issues -- the real issue is what the military and civilian leadership in DC think about these issues. No plane speculations and hoaxes steer people away from real evidence of complicity such as how the plane was steered into the nearly empty part of the Pentagon and the role of the wargames in paralyzing the defense of Washington. Cui bono - who benefits? How long would Cheney and Bush be in office if the rest of the military thought that the PNAC gang allowed 9/11 to happen -- or deliberately flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon via some form of remote control?

"The fact that "No Plane" is the cudgel being used against the 9/11 truth movement proves it is a counterproductive strategy for exposing real evidence of complicity. Whether these hoaxes are coming from deliberate disinformation agents, the aggressively naive, the gullible or the sloppy is not relevant, since the ONLY evidence for "no plane" is altered and misleading perspective photos. There is NO evidence that even comes close to the standard of proof needed to convince a newspaper editor or a judge.
"Sandia test shows what happens in high speed plane crashes...." http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

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T E L L A F R I E N D

The following email will be sent to each email address you specify in the Tell a Friend form....

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For those not familiar with his story, computer programmer Clint Curtis testified to Congress that he had been requested by Tom Feeney, an elected US official, to build a software program that could flip the votes in an electronic voting machine without detection. This computer hack would allow a person or political party to secretly control that machine, thereby deciding the winner, regardless of the actual votes cast.

Much more is at stake than a single Florida House seat....

....Please Visit http://www.clintcurtis.com.

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NIST's World Trade Center FAQ

A REPLY to the National Institute for Standards and Technology's Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
by Jim Hoffman

INTRODUCTION

On August 30, 2006, the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) posted on their website a list of fourteen frequently asked questions (FAQ) and answers to them. NIST should be commended for at least addressing a number of the serious questions that have been raised with regard to its investigation. However, NIST's new FAQ avoids answering the central charges of its most visible critique, Building a Better Mirage....
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/nist/WTC_FAQ_reply.html

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GOP Candidate Says 9/11 Attacks Were a Hoax

A Republican candidate for this area's congressional seat said Wednesday that the U.S. government was complicit in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

by Albert McKeon
The Nashua Telegraph
24 August 2006

[A courageous stand in the "Live Free or Die" state by a GOP challenger, no less, who has also called for Cheney's resignation and quotes Dr. David Ray Griffin on her site, http://maxwellforcongress.com. We encourage all truth advocates to check out her campaign and perhaps lend a hand in whatever way they can. - 911Truth Ed.]

In an editorial board interview with The Telegraph on Wednesday, the candidate, Mary Maxwell, said the U.S. government had a role in killing nearly 3,000 people at the World Trade Center and Pentagon, so it could make Americans hate Arabs and allow the military to bomb Muslim nations such as Iraq....
Article at: http://www.911truth.org

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9/11 And Demonic Consciousness

David Ray Griffin is presenting a workshop on the theme of 9/11 and Demonic Consciousness as part of The Eighth International Conference on Science and Consciousness, Santa Fe, NM.

My thesis is that the attacks of 9/11 were products of demonic consciousness, with "the demonic" understood as an emergent reality that is diametrically opposed to the creative power of the universe and strong enough to threaten its purposes. To explain how demonic power can arise in a monotheistic universe. I use the philosophy of Alfred North Whitehead, with some help from Carl Jung. Then to explain how demonic evil arose historically, I employ ideas from Andrew Bard Schmookler's Parable of the Tribes. Finally, arguing that this demonic consciousness now exists most powerfully in the USA, I suggest that a preeminent manifestation of it in our time was 9/11, orchestrated by the Bush-Cheney administration. In making this latter argument, I will draw on my two books on the subject: The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11 and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions.
Goal: To show the possibility of a view of demonic evil that is realistic — doing justice to the way in which our collective lives are dominated by values that can only be called demonic — without being mythological.

Learning Objectives:

To develop a basic understanding of how Whitehead's version of theism allows for the rise of demonic evil,
to develop a sense of how the ideas of Schmookler and Jung can explain the historical rise of demonic evil, and to develop a deeper appreciation of the relation between 9/11 and the American Empire.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/571-page-lie.htm#workshop

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From a childhood friend's comments on Some of The Above News's campaign for the truth about 9/11:

"....That is without a doubt the biggest bunch of drivel. How do you explain the planes that went down in Pennsylvania or into the Pentagon? And why should the government be responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Center when that is so crucial to American capitalism? They could have achieved the same effect with a lesser target. But the far left is doing its damage because I heard that a third of the American people believe this crap. What has always amazed me is that you believe it. You're far too bright for that, I thought. But it strikes me that maybe you don't believe it, but that it's a useful tool.
Well, after that cheery note, I'll say TTFN (ta-ta for now)."
Shirley (not real name)


EDITOR REPLIES:

Thank you for the opportunity to enlighten you (and at the same time many of the slower members of the Some of The Above News subscriber family). As you know our motto is: "There are no dumb questions; only dumb questioners."
Your right-wingnut talking points suggest that you are probably an avid fan of the talking haircuts of the TeeVee News. While I don't have time today to answer all these points, I will link you to some sites which will answer them, and most others you might come up with in your journey back to good old USofA reality.
Give the soaps a rest, Dearie! Loosen up with the Loose Change crowd. Spend some quality time with http://www.911truth.org and your brain.
Synchronistically enough, this very day I ran across the article excerpted below. I call your attention especially to this quote from it:
"....After spending the better part of the last five years treating these theories with utmost skepticism, I have devoted serious time to actually studying them in recent months, and have also carefully watched several videos that are available on the subject. I have come to believe that significant parts of the 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the "official story" put out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false...."
You should take great comfort in the fact that this truth-seeker, a former CIA official, was also bamboozled by the corporate media for five years.
Yours truly spent only about one and one-half years in the dark, probably mostly because I have not watched television since 1994, and because my reading and experiences had already made me skeptical of the government/media complex. Thus I was already more inclined to question government/media claims.
You seem to believe that it is the "far left" that is convincing people, but one of 9/11 truth-seekers' main frustrations is the EXTREME timidity, the church-mouse silence on the matter, of NEARLY ALL of the "left" "progressive" publications, pundits, websites, blogs, talk show hosts, etc. They have come to be called "the left gate-keepers." Like the proverbial dog in the manger they not only neglect the vital information they have access to, but also keep it from everybody else. Fear is the main factor here: fear of losing their grants, being black-balled by colleagues and sources, being called "conspiracy theorists," irresponsible, irrelevant, etc. And fear of being targeted for career and/or physical harassment or termination. Actually some of the most courageous and eloquent 9/11 "detectives" are conservatives, like Paul Craig Roberts, who was a high official in the Reagan administration, Wall Street Journal writer, etc.
Thus your "useful tool" hypothesis don't hunt.

Excerpt from:

Another Ex-CIA Official Speaks Out for 9/11 Truth

Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11

by Bill Christison
www.dissidentvoice.org
August 14, 2006

....Let's address the real issues here. Why is it important that we not let the so-called conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 be drowned out? After spending the better part of the last five years treating these theories with utmost skepticism, I have devoted serious time to actually studying them in recent months, and have also carefully watched several videos that are available on the subject. I have come to believe that significant parts of the 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the "official story" put out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false. I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. The items below highlight the major questions surrounding 9/11 but do not constitute a detailed recounting of the evidence available....

....This should be worked on at two different levels. At the first level, the objective should be long-term, centered on making a maximum effort to find out who the individuals and groups are that carried out the attacks in New York and Washington. Then, these people should be tried in an international court and, if possible, convicted and punished for causing so many deaths. Such a trial, accompanied by actual change in U.S. policies, would show that some people on this globe are at least trying to move closer to more just and decent behavior in human relationships around the world.

At the second level, the short term, the task should be to immediately set to work as hard as is humanly possible to defeat in this year's congressional election any candidate who refuses to support a no-holds-barred investigation of 9/11 by the Congress or a high-level international court. No more evidence than is now available is needed in order to begin this process.

A manageable volume of carefully collected and analyzed evidence is already at hand on both items ONE and TWO above. Such evidence should be used right now to buttress charges that elements within the Bush administration, as well as possibly other groups foreign or domestic, were involved in a massive fraud against the American people, a fraud that has led to many thousands of deaths....

[Bill Christison is a former senior official of the CIA. He was a National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979. Since then he has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies. He can be reached at: kathy.bill@christison-santafe.com ]
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060815025513406

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Through an executive order issued by George Bush in August of 2001 the resposibility of giving the order to intercept was transferred from the NORAD base commanders to the Secretary of Defense. While Donald Rumsfeld was present in the Pentagon during the 911 event, he refused to give the order to intercept.

Those are the facts.

The testimony of Norman Mineta that Cheney repeatedly denied to issue an order to shoot down, while in the situation room of the White House and having been informed that a jet airliner was 50 miles away. The aid asked for again at 30 miles. Mineta is on record as Cheney insisting that the orders stand. No plane was dispatched to intercept. No air to ground missles were prepared. This despite the fact that the Pentagon has been protected by air to ground missles since the early sixties. Those are facts, and they all point to the Administration allowing planes to reach their targets. Wake up!

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

Thanks for that reference, Fred.

The document I was referring to is this one:
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction CJCSI 3610.01A (dated 1
June 2001) was issued for the purpose of providing "guidance to the Deputy Director for Operations (DDO), National Military Command Center (NMCC), and operational commanders in the event of an aircraft piracy (hijacking) or request for destruction of derelict airborne objects." This new instruction superseded CJCSI 3610.01 of 31 July 1997.

This CJCSI states that "In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be
notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward
requests for DOD assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval."

Reference D refers to Department of Defense Directive 3025.15 (Feb. 18,
1997) which allows for commanders in the field to provide assistance to
save lives in an emergency situation -- BUT any requests involving
"potentially lethal support" (including "combat and tactical vehicles,
vessels or aircraft; or ammunition") must still be approved by the
Secretary of Defense. So again, the ability to respond to a hijacking in
any meaningful fashion, is stripped from the commanders in the field."

It was Cheney who was commanding the war room that day, but Rumsfeld who held the legal responsibility to give the order. Neither gave that order.

Why?

Chris Baldwin, You'd better run for the hills, the liberal, left-wing kooks are coming out of the woodwork. Did anyone get through that "War and Peace" type post? It looks like our friend, Bob Dobbs, is a firm believer that President George W, Bush, Vice-President Dick Cheney, all the Bush cabinet and advisors, as well as a whole host of high-ranking military officers were either complicit in the planning of the 9-11 attacks, or had full knowledge of them and refused to do anything about them. He is just a little shy about admitting his feelings. It is an established fact that a conspiracy with more than two people involved invariably ends in failure. The conspiracy that these liberal kooks espouse would of necessity entail the cooperation and silence of literally thousands. But if they find some sort of pleasure in believing that the President, Vice-President, the Cabinet, and the Military would knowingly be involved in the willful murder of 3,000 of their fellow American citizens as well as the destruction of billions of dollars in property, and strike a severe blow to the economy of the very country that they had sworn to defend and protect, it is certainly their business. It just seems like any sane person would see that scenario for the fantasy that it is.

Yeah, alex, continue to willfully ignore the facts of the situation. Continue to ignore the swon testimony in the 911 commission hearings. You are living in the fantasy world and are in a shrinking minority.

The sane majority of America has awakened to the reality of what really happened five years ago and wants answers and accountability now.

You would be surprised how few conspirators it took to pull this off but they will be brought to justice.

How many conspirators were there? And Bob, I live in the same country as you do and work in the business world with hundreds of people of all political persuasions. I don't know of a single person who espouses your crackpot theories. Now, if the majority of Americans have now been convinced of this fantasy, why is it that I have been encapsulated from this sweeping tide of enraged geniuses seeking retribution? Is it possible that all my contacts are part of your"shrinking minority?" And Bob, who exactly are these few conspiring murderers and who exactly is going to bring the "to justice?"

Given your tragic cranio-rectal inversion, none of your statements surprise me.

Nice reply, Bob. Right on topic and to the point. Sure. But then, it should be expected from a liberal, left-wing kook with a large, tinfoil hat. Chris Baldwin, since you started this blog, answer this question: How do they do it? I'm referring to the left-wing kooks who have answered this blog without having been part of this site UNTIL you posted something partially political. Do they have some sort of hot line where they can alert their fellow kooks to the opportunity to rant at someone with whom they disagree? Take Bob Dobbs, PLEASE, for instance. I've never seen that user name or that style before on this site. Unless he is clever enough to disguise his modus operandi, which I doubt, he is not a mole and is serious in his quack theories, whatever they might be. And the rest are similarly unfamiliar. Do they cruise around the entire internet looking for controversy? Again, how do they do it? Maybe if they would use such diligence at work, they might be able to keep a job. That is, if they have ever had one.

Chris, I fear that Bob Dobbs is more to be pitied than censured. He began by railing against you, accusing you of prevarication in fabricating your encounter with the liberal Canuck kook. Then he posts several rants that give support to your contention that the kooks are everywhere, even on golf courses and golf blogs.

Here's a great video that you all need to see.

It's about the 9/11 victims' families quest for truth and justice:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1016720641536424083&q=press+for+truth

I think you should stick to writing about golf, it's more on your intellectual level.


man goes swing

man goes put

ball goes in


it's simple, so your brain can fathom it, it's completely linear and requires no more thinking that simple math and a rudimentary understanding of inertia.

I'm sorry...but in order to buy the government's absurd, poorly supported, scripted line regarding 9/11 events, one would have to be far more of a "kooky conspiracy theorist."

Stick to golf, Chris.

sorry dummy, but you need to do your homework. No steel skyscraper has ever fallen from fire, even if it burned for more than 24 hours. One of the towers fell after only 56 minutes. Who do they think they're kidding? You, obviously.

Thank God for the "Kooks." The US Government has gotten away with its corruption for too long. It's a good thing not everyone walks around like sheep and ASK QUESTIONS. Nah, that takes brain power and knowledge. It's so much easier to let them explain away with their cover-ups. Too bad so much is contradicted right on film.

BTW-WHAT television station was Bush watching when he stated on Dec. 4, 2001 that he SAW the first plane hit the tower and thought it was bad pilot error? The ONLY television he might have seen it on was closed circut that had been set up in advance because NO station viewed that scene. THE NEXT DAY a man making a documentary released HIS footage of the first plane hitting.

The biggest problem with corruption...the LIES are hard to keep track of and you trip them up sooner than later.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. The ONLY 'CONSPIRACY THEORY' is the story released by the Government.

Mr Baldwin...Please do some research before whining about things you know NOTHING about. Do it FOR THE FAMILIES of the VICTIMS SEEKING THE TRUTH TO THIS DAY!!

I questioned this the second I witnessed the first tower fall. In my heart I knew something was not right. I put nothing past any Industrialized Nation on this Earth. However this is nothing new to the world. It has been repeated itself time and time again. We have yet to evolve from this state of being as homosapians. It can make a man apathetic about towards his fellow humans. Again people, we are citizen's of this planet, and no "GOVERNMENT" will ever dictate my being. Stick to writing about golf. Your humor is that of a ignorant, sheltered little boy.

Stop playing golf long enough to exercise your brain a little bit there golfer man.

Just a sampling of my contentions of why the official story of 9/11 just doesn't make sense to me:

George Bush as President of the United States of America was on August 6, 2001, reportedly given a national security briefing which included information advising that sources were warning of a terrorist plan to use hijacked airliners as weapons. The very next month, not 8 years, or 3 years, or even 9 months, but a little over 4 weeks later, he sits in a classroom knowing a plane has hit one of the WTC buildings. Now, it is common knowledge that the WTC was the target of the same "terrorists" in 1993 and reportedly they vowed to attack it again one day in order to bring them down. Yet, he sat on his rear end in a classroom full of kids knowing that a plane had flown into one of the buildings on the morning of September 11, 2001. He was advised before he ever went into the classroom that the WTC had been attacked but went inside to read about a goat anyway? Does this make ANY sense to any thinking individual with even bare minimum critical thinking skills? And the same thing goes for the Vice President Dick Cheney, surely he was briefed also. I'm sure he was well aware of the "threat," probably more so than Bush. And they did NOTHING? And they're are reports that Transportation Secretary Norman overheard Dick Cheney dressing down a junior military officer when he asked the VP "does the order still stand" which indicates Cheney was certainly at front and center of the command and control elements during this time.

And how did the "terrorists" know that NORAD was going to stand down on the morning of September 11, 2001. Based on on quotes I've read interviews I've listened to with former fighter pilots who were assigned to NORAD, including a retired Air Force Colonel, Bowman I believe is his name, this could never have happened unless it was purposely allowed to
happen.

I find it very interesting that on the cover of my newspaper the very next morning on September 12, 2001, the headline read "ATTACK ON AMERICA, Bush promises: We will win the war against terrorism." They had already crafted a title that we all know so well...."the war on terror." Personally, I just find that very interesting in light of everything else I know.

I also find it very implausible that members of the Bush Administration, and the Bush family, including Vice President Dick Cheney, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz-the architect of the Bush Doctrine regarding war in the Middle East, Jeb Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Dov S. Zakheim, Comptroller, Department of Defense, Peter W.
Rodman, Assistant Secretary of Defense, etc, etc, etc, were all members of the Project For A New American Century (PNAC), a neo-con think-tank group, who as a group stated that what America needed was a catalyzing Pearl Harbor type event in order to persuade the American people into allowing them to carry out their purported policies throughout the world.

And what about President Bush's brother Marvin Bush being a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport, but only started a short time before September 2001?

And what about World Trade Center Building #7? This building was not hit by any plane yet it fell just like one of those old casinos or hotels you see go down in Las Vegas or somewhere on one of those demolition videos. And the owner of the World Trade Center just purchased the buildings two or three months prior to September 11, 2001, and took out what many say was an extraordinary amount of extra insurance on it?????????

And what about OPERATION NORTHWOODS, an official plan by elements within our own government that sought to carry out terrorist attacks on the American people as a pretext for an invasion into Cuba. Kill American citizens????? YOu've got to be kidding me. This is now declassified, at least for now! ( http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662 )

The Bush administration appears to have done everything they can to thwart any attempt to secure our nations borders. The first thing any nation having been the target of such an attack would do would be to secure its borders. Four and five years after the events of September 11, 2001, the is still a DEBATE going on as to whether or not border security should be an issue!

And it has been reported for a long time now by sources that I consider to be reputable that several of the "hijackers" were trained at U.S. military bases! You've got to be kidding me and not mention of this in the mainstream media, not even on Fox News! And I understand that one of the "lead hijackers" was actually trained at a U.S. military base for international officer's training? What the hell is that about?

I contend that elements within the United States government, including those who were members of the PNAC and others were complicit in allowing the September 11 attacks to occur and personally I believe elements within our government were also working in a management and control capacity whereby they sponsored foreign terrorists through black
operation set-ups using controlled assets, some of whom may have actually thought themselves that they were working against the west. Our country absolutely does have a history of this kind of thing. If you have anything to negate any of my contentions listed above I would surely like to know about it. I mean serious contentions, not "conspiracy theories" like the one put out as the official story by the government that allowed it to happen. Believe me, these contentions were drawn up, by me, without any help, in a matter of minutes, and they represent only a small fraction of contentions I could make to contend that a new and independent investigation needs to be conducted to find out what happened. I'm sure I can come up numerous and possibly even stronger contentions, given the time and the knowledge that someone would actually read them and give a damn.
-Max

AND THIS IS FROM AN EARLIER BLOG I'VE ALREADY FORGOTTEN I WROTE. I WILL INCLUDE IT HERE BECAUSE I THINK IT MAY MAKE SOME MORE POINTS. AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT WATCH THIS VIDEO THAT LAYS OUT THE TIMELINE OF BUSH'S WHEREABOUTS AND ACTIVITIES AT THE TIME OF THE ATTACKS.

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=-j2VXfoy-dk&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//sjl-static16.sjl.youtube.com/vi/-j2VXfoy-dk/2.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskJeo08kSBgVo9B-cPy9m76K


MY OLDER BLOG

Bush knew

All individuals in significant positions within the Bush Administration knew of the threat of terrorists hijacking planes and using them as weapons yet Bush and his National Security Advisor both came out in the days immediately following the 9/11 attacks and said that NO ONE had EVER been aware of any such threat. If you don't remember those little public statements I can find them for you. They are all over the internet for anyone who cares to research it on their own. It is just amazing to me how the talk shows just go on day after day, month after month, year after year, speaking as if they were unaware of so much information that is available to anyone who gives a damn. And anyone who does care is labeled a coward, or a traitor, and probably coming in the not too distant future will be labeled as a terrorist. What a sick world. -Max

And Tara, you asked on your show last Sunday, why are people turning on Bush? You've got to be kidding me, right? Yes, I was a little sheep not too long ago. I was caught up in the whole left/right paradigm that was constructed to keep me ignorant. I voted for Bush both in '04 and in '00, and Dole before that (he now works for a lobbying firm for Dubai), and I voted for papa Bush when he ran against Clinton (and I kept saying why is he not even trying, now I know he wanted Clinton to win) and I am a conservative. Too many things started making me question what I was seeing and hearing so guess what? I started listening less and less to Limbaugh, Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly, and Jason Lewis and started doing some research on my own, seeking out answers to things that just weren't making any sense to me. Things like four years going by after the terrible terrorist attacks on 9/11 but only lip service being paid to securing our nation's borders. It didn't add up. Five years after these attacks there was actually a debate going on as to whether or not the borders should be secured !!! And Bush kept sticking his foot in his mouth and I kept going out and looking on my own and finding out things that I never knew about Bush, Bush Sr. and many other things and I started finding out that most if not all of the people I knew that supported Bush were COMPLETELY UNAWARE of these things. And I started realizing that I had been had. I was born and raised in Charlotte, NC. I was influenced by the shows I watched in the reruns of idealistic 1960's television shows and by my family. After high school I wanted to serve my country so I became a Marine and went on to become a Marine infantry NCO. After that I got out and went back to school because at 23 I thought I was getting old and life was going to pass me by and then I got hooked on political debate and felt at home with the conservatives. It would be very easy for me to turn my back on any searching for truth. I'm sure I could be much happier and much easier to be around and life would be so much easier for me but I can't do it. I want the truth. I believe in the ideals of this country so much that I am willing to die for them and I believe the neocons and their mouthpieces are doing a terrible injustice to all of those that have gone before us. I actually know a what I believe is a whole lot more than I can even speak to most people but for now I will end it there. Sorry, I forgot to take my pill today but you did ask the question. -Max, Semper Fi to the Constitution, truth, justice, and what I always grew up believing was the American way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCjbmImBa6w&mode=related&search=

The following link includes a clip of President Bush's statement regarding no one ever having been aware of the threat. The first link above show's Condelezza Rice's statement or one of many I'm sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I687jvb2uf8&feature=PlayList&p=DDCD5FB54BD8562F&index=29


Who benefited from the 9/11 attacks?

PNAC blueprint that says: "the process of transformation is likely to be a long one. Absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor." For more information on the PNAC think tank group starring Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condelezza Rice,
Wolfowtiz, etc, etc, etc, etc.

This excerpt from the web page Empire Burlesque is very revealing:

A New Pearl Harbor"
PNAC fired its first shot across the bow in 1998, with letters to President Clinton and Congressional leaders calling for "regime change" in Iraq, by force if necessary, and the establishment of a "strong U.S. military presence in the region." Then in September 2000, just months before the disputed election that brought George W. Bush to power, the group published a highly detailed, 90-page "blueprint" for transforming America's military and the nation's role on the world stage. (see: http://empireburlesquenow.blogspot.com/2005/03/dark-passage-pnacs-blueprint-for.html )



"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories
concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away
from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."

-- George W. Bush
43rd US President,
Yale Skull & Bones Society
Stated at the United Nations,
November 11, 2001


"You can fool some of the people all of the time,
and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

George W. Bush,
(joking?) at a Gridiron Club dinner,
Washington, D.C., March 2001.


The Mysterious Collapse of World Trace Center Building 7

"It is commonly known that the Twin Towers fell on 9/11,
but did you know that a third building also fell that day?
WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper located
one block from the Twin Towers collapsed at 5:20 that evening,
imploding in the exact manner of a professionally engineered demolition.
It fell suddenly straight down, at near freefall speed, and landed in a
compact pile of rubble, barely damging any of the surrounding buildings.."

For information on this and 10 other remarkable facts, see:

11 Remarkable Facts About 9/11


I contend that at the very least factions within our own government, including the Bush Administration, and also members of the PNAC, were very aware of the threat and did everything they could to facilitate the attacks of 9/11, not limited to but likely including agent provocateuring and sponsoring such acts through a complicated maze of black-op nameless subsidiary managing operations.

-Max

"Canadians love bashing the Bush administration"? How about anyone with at least half of their brain left working without influence from Faux News bashes Bush and his administration. Anyone in the US who gives a damn about justice, TRUTH, liberties and the future of their country bashes Bush and this administration. You ignorant twits are so quick to spout off your "liberal" this and that but too boneheaded to see that you are no better, just on the other end of the same coin of manipulated stupidity. How did we end up in this war? Manipulated. How did we get lied to so many times and fall for it? Manipulation. Both sides do it, these NeoCons do it very well. People better wake the hell up and realize your country is under attack by enemys abroad. If you think that's not possible, you're ignorance is probably rooted too deep for you to ever have a chance.

As per 9/11: Before you shout out either way, do your research. YOUR research, lazy asses. Come to your conclusion. There is an absolute wealth of reasons for people to speculate that criminal elements of our gov't carried those events out to get the war they despirately wanted, per the Project For a New American Century papers and much much more.

Hey moron! A Ninja coming soon. Heads UP! ~T

golf is a lame sport that shouldn't be encouraged to play with spectators any more than masterbation in public. go have fun, folks!Don't forget to beLIEve everything our media and government tells at all times!

Re: previous post... Meant to say that we are under attack by enemies abroad and at home. And by abroad, I don't mean 3rd world Islamic countries.

The real question pertaining to 9/11 is, "Who benefits the most from it all?"

To answer that question, I would suggest reading "Crossing The Rubicon" by Michael C. Ruppert.

http://www.reopen911.org/books_dvds.htm

Scroll all the way down and you'll find it for $14 (I paid $23 at Barnes & Noble). I've found this to be the least sensationalist, most well researched, and least crackpot of all the books that I have seen regarding the subject.

What is very telling about all of this is that those who have questions are reading and doing research from multiple sources. Those who agree with the administration's story (as well as the 9/11 Commission [or Omission, depending on your view] Report), really only watch TV and read the newspaper, The National Review, or Popular Mechanics (gross negligence).

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-Mark Twain


“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine. And remember that we are not descended from fearful men; not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that, for the moment were unpopular. And so, Good Night and Good Luck.”
- Edward R. Murrow

Hey bub, stick to golf...

Bet you still believe in Santa Claus too....

"Our government would never do that" who trained the Terrorists to fight the Soviets........

Oh well, bet you are first in line to get chipped too, for your own good.

any one who doesnt question lies doesnt deserve to be american/all we get are lies/all we want are real explainations not the gov covering there ass...the gov needs to be held acountable for gross neglect and war crimes for some..such as cheany..and rummy..

Chris Baldwin, I've never seen ANY of these user names on these boards. There has got to be some way for these kooks to notify each other of what's been blogged on this site. If some one with more internet expertise than me can explain it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.P.S. Notice the minute by minute sequence of these posts. More evidence of collusion to flood this blog with their outrageous, kook theories.

You don't actually believe that I am God do you? Just because I said I am doesn't make it so. I'm sure you would like some proof. You don't believe everything any one tells you, do you? My good man, if you blindly believe everything that you hear on television without doing any research for yourself, then it comes as no suprise to me that you think of those who question the events of 9/11 as whackos or conspiracy theorists. I myself almost joined the military after the attacks that day. Fortunately, I sobered from the propoganda and began to look into the claims. Take a look at the sources of those who are making claims. Why is it that the government just denies all the accusations as apposed to providing the evidence which could easily disprove all the theories. Eighty-four surveilance tapes confiscated. Something about that doesn't add up. Politicians are known to be professional bullshitters, and instead of questioning them your eating their shit with a spoon.

Why dont you do the research before you open your big mouth. You might actually look inteligent.

while were on the subject of 9-11 i just wanted to ask alex how many bodies were recovered from the pentagon and the 93 flight???
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

silverstein admits that tower 7 (office building) third building in the wtc complex..was brought down by demo....after denying it over and over again...finally admits..hmmmmm...of course they couldnt have been planted during the two hours the towers were burning before they fell...sooo they must have been planted before the planes ever hit...that just doesnt add up...no conspiracy FACTS!!!

9/11 was an inside job!!!!! Golf is much of a sport as Bowling and Hopsotch

You won't find many people who question the credibility of our government on a golf course simply because most people on golf courses have no ability of abstract thought, nor do they want to change their thought processes.

In other words, they are close minded rich yuppies who could give a shit less about others and gobble up the bullshit the media feeds them.

yeah alex, it's called social networking sites, and blog rings, when somone decides to make an ass of themselves about 9/11 we all quickly find out about it. You want to talk sh1t you better be prepared for a response.

I just realized that it was an inside job. Thank you for opening my eyes. I was so blind.

people have made plenty of good points and brought up plenty of good facts pointing to the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. what i did see, though, that i had to comment on..was the person who called the 9/11 truth "liberal kookery". as one of many non-liberals in the 9/11 truth movement, not that i'm full of "oohhh liberals are evil, hate them"(nor conservatives), i find it ridiculous that you speak so flagrantly far off from the truth..just to try to keep your buddies and other people who are still supporting the wrongs of this government because they are being kept under the rug by tv evangelists and partisanism, within arms reach..because then you will have no one left. over half of the public before this weekend, already believed something is arriy and over 45 percent already believed it was an inside job. its not about politics..we come from all spectrums..and certainly the democrats have failed US..you as well as me, the american people and the human race..just as much as the republicans have by not giving us a real investigation, by not answering questions that were started by the families of victims, that are still being asked by these families and by many many americans and people around the world and are being ignored by the media and the government...its no less then complicity after the fact for nearly every political leader in the united states who is intentionally passing on this lie to the american people and the world over and over again, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. doesnt matter what party they are from. and it doesnt matter what party we are from, its not about politics and angles, its about the truth. stop helping the lie and join us in asking questions and demanding answers. you only have to look up the facts yourself. each person owes that too themselves, not just those who died, not just those who have died in the two wars sinse, not just those who have been hurt, not are being tortured, not just those who have been getting sick and dying sinse 9/11 because they lied about the air..you owe it to yourself and those directly in your life, as much as anyone. put the golf stick down for a second, put the ball away, and do your duty as a human being and an american and seek....you will find.

One Actor, One Room, Seven Characters: 9/11.

Traumatized by the September 11th attacks, one man struggles to dismantle official history, at the expense of his sanity and even his life. Grappling with multiple realities - and multiple personalities - he must retreat into his mind in pursuit of the truth. In a fictional film about non-fictional events, there is a place where belief and faith will blind you, where nothing is sacred, and to get there all you have to do is ask:

"Who Killed John O'Neill?"

9/11 was a scare tactic, they needed a scape got just like the Soviets needed Lennon. Or like Hitler needed the Jews. Open your eyes. P.S. I didn't know GOD was a blogger...xD GG

pssst...people who don't believe the official government version and have questions about 9/11 are everywhere. maybe even right next door to you. watch what you say, and be afraid. be very afraid.

seriously, though...they are everywhere. the shock of 9/11 is finally wearing off and people are putting two and two together and getting three. you really need to take 90 minutes or so and watch a just released film available on video.google for free) called 9/11: Press for Freedom from some of the 9/11 families. i think you'll find that there needn't be a lot of what you might term "loonie" theories. there's plenty of factual, logical, solid evidence without them. at the very least, nothing was done to stop the attacks, but there's probably a lot more to it. and people plan to uncover the truth.

(oh and i just had to laugh...people who golf are usually pretty grounded? is that why lightning strikes them a lot? and oh, yeah, you have a typo in your third paragraph.)

have a good evening...

9/11 is a coverup. Plain and simple. Educate yourself or join the rest of the sheep. "The Patriot Act has increased the flow of information within our government and it has helped break up terrorist cells in the United States of America. And the United States Congress was right to renew the terrorist act -- the Patriot Act." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. , Sept. 7, 2006

OWN-the-NWO, Thanks for the info. I figured as much. How many liberal,kook imbeciles do you have in the network? A rough estimate will suffice. Please, none of this BS of a vast majority of all Americans.

Instead of tossing around 3rd grade jibber jabber insults Alex, how about prove to us that we are "kooks". Answer the questions and make us look stupid. We'd love that. And you would be an instant hero because nobody in the 9/11 Commission or the Bush Administration has. This is your big chance, Alex. I think I'd rather be called a kook than an imbecile. As a "kook" I can fully articulate the reasons for my beliefs in these areas because I've spent 4 years researching everything I could about it and doing whatever I could to find the answers to continuously increasing about of questions, just have most of these other "kooks" I'm sure. But an imbecile can do nothing but sit back in ignorance and toss hollow insults and Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity rhetoric.

The world trade center would have needed to be demolished one day - one way or another. A demolition on that scale is expensive. So what do you think corporate interests would prefer - A demolition that is fully compensated for by the insurance company by claiming a terrorist attack OR paying for the demolition when it is deemed necessary to destroy the building.

This is just one point. When the whole picture is gathered though, from Bush's connections with the Bin Laden family to the hoodwinking of society into believing Iraq was involved (which we know isn't true cos Bush admits it himself) - it becomes glaringly clear that far too many "coincidences" are involved here. The most logical explanation is likely to be the true one.

Who stood to gain from this 'terrorist' attack? The Bush administration and it's various partners in war profiteering industries? Or some extremists that were to suffer the backlash of massive genocide of their country's people?

This administration is TOXIC (described by Al Gore) and will continue it's destruction of America's constitution, economy and the safety of it's citizens unless steps are taken to shoot them down.

ASK QUESTIONS AND RESEARCH FOR YOURSELF TO MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP USING COMMON SENSE

I love how both conservative and liberal alike try to shove their version of the truth down each others throats which in turn culminates into a session of bashing the blogger and each other. Good job, people. You really do your country service by being total children about the issue.

As for the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing, I remain neutral on the subject until someone can prove that the government was in fact responsible for the WTC buildings collapsing resulting in the deaths of thousands of people. The government did have forewarning of the attacks with the pdb memo from August 2001. I believe the last few paragraphs of that pdb point out the seriousness at the time of a potential terrorist attack.

I think canada would be ashamed if they knew you were claiming yourself as an honorary citizen. Don't invite yourself where you don't belong. Open your mind outside of yourself for a little bit, and read up on the evidence that is available right before your eyes.

Prick.

Below I have provided an excerpt from the Guardian (education news) that you obviously missed. Educate yourself before you speak of matters of which you are obviously not very well familiarized with.
"Who Really Blew Up the Twin Towers"
---It is impossible, says Jones, for the towers to have collapsed from the collision of two aeroplanes, as jet fuel doesn't burn at temperatures hot enough to melt steel beams. The horizontal puffs of smoke - squibs - emitted during the collapse of the towers are indicative of controlled implosions on lower floors. The scholars have collected eyewitness accounts of flashes and loud explosions immediately before the fall.

The twin towers must, they say, have been brought down by explosives - hence the container of dust on Jones's desk, sent to him unsolicited by a woman living in lower Manhattan. He is using X-ray fluorescents to test it for explosive materials.

What's more, the nearby World Trade Centre 7 also collapsed later that afternoon. The building had not been hit by a plane, only damaged by fire. WTC 7 housed a clandestine CIA station, which the scholars believe was the command centre for the planning of 9/11.

___________________________________________________________________
Another excerpt for you if the first one was too complicated for you to understand......



---Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same. Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass). Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same, but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were 90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.

In combustion science, there are three basic types of flames, namely, a jet burner, a pre-mixed flame, and a diffuse flame. A jet burner generally involves mixing the fuel and the oxidant in nearly stoichiometric proportions and igniting the mixture in a constant-volume chamber. Since the combustion products cannot expand in the constant-volume chamber, they exit the chamber as a very high velocity, fully combusted, jet. This is what occurs in a jet engine, and this is the flame type that generates the most intense heat.

In a pre-mixed flame, the same nearly stoichiometric mixture is ignited as it exits a nozzle, under constant pressure conditions. It does not attain the flame velocities of a jet burner. An oxyacetylene torch or a Bunsen burner is a pre-mixed flame.

In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition, but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.




So, this massive heat (nonexistant) was able to melt steel but leave the paperwork belonging to the hijackers intact?
Explain this one to me, please, since you, apparently, are so well informed.

Funny how you conservative halfwit sheeple keep regurgitating the same GOP spindoctor myths... the largest being that the 9/11 truth movement people are all liberal kooks. You haven't a clue because you listen to a few corrupt mediocre minded pundits who hand you a phrase and you run with it without bothering to look any further into whether its true or not. I've got news for you. Most 9/11 truth people are actually rightwing leaning, christians. But I guess that doesn't fit into that nice little safe box of thinking or line of propaganda you're working. It probably bothers you that even conservatives are turning against Bush and his administration of liars and cheats. If you could just hang it on liberals or the left that would be convenient. But this is all beyond your comprehension. Better get used to it... there's more to come.

Are these people merely "conspiracy nuts"? Are they "with the terrorists" as George Bush claims?

Colonel Ronald D. Ray (U.S. Marine Corps)
Bill Christison (CIA)
Ray McGovern (CIA)
Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col. (United States Air Force)
Morgan O. Reynolds (US Government)
Paul Craig Roberts (US Government)
Andreas Von Buelow (German Government)
General Leonid Ivashov (Russian Army)
David Shayler (British Security Service - MI5)

GOOD BOY, BUBBA! TOW THAT PARTY LINE! DON'T ASK ANY QUESTIONS! THEY NEED GUYS JUST LIKE YOU OUT THERE, "STICKIN' IT TO THE LEFTIES AND THE CONSPIRACY NUTS" IN YOUR PATHETIC LITTLE GOLF-BLOGS!! YEAH BABY!! STAY CLEAN & SHINY IN THE SHRINKWRAP OF YOUR SMUG UNQUESTIONING IGNORANCE!! IF YOU LOOKED AT THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ROGUE-ELEMENT COMPLICITY IN 9/11, YOU JUST MIGHT... BUT NEVER MIND. KEEP FANTASIZING ABOUT PLAYING A FEW HOLES WITH DUBYA, AND YOU'LL BE OK...

Obviously you have not done your own personal research on the subject. It is very easy to just go along and believe everything you hear on FOX, MSNBC, CNN, etc. without going and double-checking their statements and facts. There are MOUNTAINS of evidence and facts that blatently fly in the face of the official story put out by the government. Here's my challenge to you: find someone who is very literate and well-researched on the alternative theories and debate them. I dare you to try and disprove the mountain of evidence with your simplistic and idiotic talking points that the Democrats or Republicans spew in your ear. My final word: until you do your own research on the subject of BOTH THEORIES (official and alternative) then you CANNOT bad mouth anyone who dissents from the official story. Again, I challenge you to research all the evidence at sites such as (and others): http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html
http://www.911truth.org/
http://911research.wtc7.net/

In a world where a professional golfer makes more money than a teacher, nurse or firefighter and where over 400 billion is spent on defense and just barely 50 billion spent on education I am not surprised to find blind ignorance splattered across this great country.

My suggestion is simple, talk to people who are knowledgable about certain things (controlled demolitions for example) who don't have an interest or connection to the Government or the 9/11 truth movement. The look at all of the evidence provided by both sides. Try to keep you pre-formed, biased opinions out of it. Try to keep your politics out of it. Once you have managed all of that, make up your mind based on what exists.

Those who want to believe will. Those who do not will not. Those who simply want the truth will find it somewhere in the middle.

ALEX:

"I asked him how the explosives could have been set in place with no one being aware of them."

There is proof you can find on the internet and reported in documentaries that research 9/11 that the towers were shut down for "security reasons" days prior to 9/11, and many times over a two-week span. Security workers were also let off, according to many employee reports. Oh, and George Bush's brother Marvin took over ownership of the WTC on 9/10, just a little tidbit of info.

"That it takes thousands of man hours to prepare a building one third the height and volume of the WTC towers for demolition by implosion."

I have lived in Vegas for 13 years and have seen all the hotel implosions that you spoke of. Currently, the Stardust is about to close in November. The implosion is going to follow within a few weeks of the closing. (They have to close before they start placing any explosives.) Thousands of hours? The Stardust is approximately 4-500 feet high.

"Bush had been planning this coup for years before he was even President, the conspirators were either paid handsomely or liquidated, they were intimidated and put in fear of their lives,etc."

Eh, close, you're on the right track. All you need to do now is take it serious. Rigged elections? Larry Silverstein trying to insure the buildings for $7 billion but getting a measly $3.5 billion coverage? Stocks on WTC and airlines plummetting the days before 9/11?

And I find it pretty interesting that you are seeking some reasoning behind "all these kooks" coming in here and posting, like we're conspiring together... have a solid conspiracy theory behind it? Maybe if you'd be more internet-savvy you'd know more of this information that will reveal itself to you after search, after search, after search.

Chris, Maybe it's time to shut down this blog. All the kook crackpots seem to have had their says and appear to be running out of material. Too much repetition. Tomorrow might be a good day to put something out there about how Bush, Diebold and the Neo-Cons stole the elections in 2000, 2002, and 2004. That should rattle their cages pretty good. It won't be about golf, but it should be entertaining. These left-wing yo-yo's actually think that they make a difference. They just can't fathom that no sensible person could possibly take them seriously

Your an Idiot, you beleive anything the news tells you to! Thats ok, thats what society wants is shallow people like you that they can feed what ever they want to.

There is information everyone should look into before making any argument. You cannot argue with the "kooks," on either side, if you are just there to name bash. The is no honest debate if you don't have both sides of the story. Listen to the Bush administration and then listen to the rebuttal argument. There was a address to Congress By Ron Paul and it is stated that there was a mess up of information. Just how bad and how much is the conspiracy. But the fact is everyone must keep an open mind to everyone's argument and argue fairly or we become part of the problem and our country will continue to be divided.

Kook, If you have lived in Las Vegas for 13 years, you have probably lost not only your money but your mind along with it. I'm not internet savvy and I know it and admit it. Therein lies the difference between you and me. You are a crackpot with some really zany theories, but you don't know it and you wouldn't admit it if you did.

is that right?

well Bill doyle the head of the largest 9/11 familes group over 7,000 thousand families, said openly that 9/11 was an inside job, so it seems the families are taking us pretty seriously.
http://www.coalitionof911families.org/

and now the FDNY and NYPD know they were lied to about the health hazards of the dust, many of them felt somthing wasn't right, but now a sizeable majority of them have been going up thanking alex jones for not shutting up, so keep calling us "kooks" and "Crackpots" and "loonies" and whatever stupid troglodite name you can throw around "conspiracy theorists" is the best considering if you believe the official story it's a THEORY about the CONSPIRACY of muslims in a cave in afghanistan.

scripps howard poll show's 1 THIRD of people polled believe the way we do, and EVEN MORE believe the government was complicit, so continue your feeble efforts to slander and marginalize, you only bring more attention to us and help us wake other people up.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/one_in_3_americans_say_u_s__aided_9_11_nationalnews_thomas_hargrove______and_guido_h__stempel_iii.htm

Statement and Questions Regarding the 9/11 Commission Interview of Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Members of his Administration revised May 11, 2004 The Family Steering Committee is pleased that former Mayor Rudy Giuliani and members of his Administration will be giving sworn testimony before an audience of Families of 9/11 Victims and the American public. Since the Commission is responsible for fulfilling the Congressional mandate to investigate all facts relating to 9/11, the following questions for the Giuliani Administration and the Port Authority of NY & NJ must be addressed at the May 18th –19th hearings in order to facilitate informed decisions and recommendations. 1. A few short weeks after 9/11, tons of metal from the collapsed twin towers was sold to scrap yards in New Jersey. Thereafter, the steel was re-sold to other recyclers in the United States and overseas. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the “scrap” has ended up in India, Japan, South Korea, China and Malaysia. It is the FSC’s position that the thousands of pounds of debris was crime-scene evidence. It should have been examined, catalogued, and stored in a secure location. Why were the steel beams sold and shipped overseas and not retained as evidence? Was the material examined before it was sent overseas? If examined, then by whom? Were any diagnostic studies/tests performed? If not, then why? Whose responsibility was this? Former FBI Acting Director Thomas Pickard said that the FBI wanted to take over Ground Zero and make it a crime scene as was done at the Pentagon. If that had occurred all materials from the scene would have been protected until an investigation was complete. Pickard also stated that you, Mayor Giuliani, would not allow the FBI access to the pit area. Is this accurate? If so, then what was your reason for keeping the nation’s chief investigatory team—the FBI, out of Ground Zero? 2. On 9/11, rooftop doors to both of the World Trade Center towers were locked. Thus, rooftop rescue by helicopter was impossible. Who made the decision to lock the rooftop doors? When was this decision made? Why was this decision made? Whose responsibility was it to communicate to the building leaseholders and occupants that rooftop doors would be locked in the event of a catastrophe and/or emergency? Did locking the rooftop doors violate New York City or New York State building codes? 3. Firefighters lost their lives on 9/11 due to faulty equipment, such as radios. These were the same radios that failed in 1993. Who was in charge of buying and testing equipment for the firefighters? During your administration were there any requests by either the NYPD or FDNY to increase budget appropriations for emergency apparatus such as radios? 4. Many high level officials were warned not to fly commercially, prior to 9/11. Were you warned not to fly? 5. As Mayor of New York City, did you interface with either the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) or the FBI’s Bin Laden Unit from January 2001 to September 11, 2001? If so, what was the extent of your communications with them? What actions, if any, were taken on behalf of your administration at the request of the JTTF or the Bin Laden Unit? 6. What precautions were put in place after the 1993 WTC bombing to protect the citizens of New York City and the occupants of the WTC in the likely event of another attack? 7. After the 1993 bombing of the WTC, what, if any, measures were taken to ensure that in the next emergency, the evacuation of the WTC occupants would be swifter, more methodical, and more decisive? 8. What "Memorandums of Understanding,"(MOUs) if any, were in effect between the PA of NY&NJ, the City of New York, the FDNY and any other emergency agency that would address the need to respond to an emergency at the WTC? What legal implications, if any, did these MOU’s have? If they had no legally binding effect, then for what purpose did such agreements exist? 9. What, if any, emergency plan did the City of New York have in place prior to and/or on 9/11, considering that NYC was a "prime" terrorist target? 10. Why did you ask to have your records as Mayor of New York City sealed for 25 years? 11. Was there ever a recommendation to improve the venting of the emergency stairwells in the WTC after the 1993 bombing and if so, was it ever done? 12. Mr. Giuliani, several members of the Family Steering Committee attended a meeting with you in 2002 at which time you told us that you were against, and would not support, the formation of an independent commission to examine the events of 9/11. Why did you oppose the creation of this commission? Given the revelations that have emerged during commission hearings, do you still regard their work as unimportant and unnecessary? Do you now believe it is beneficial to have the public well informed about the actions of the government, its agencies and its public officials? 13. On 9/11, no aircraft hit WTC 7. Why did the building fall at 5:20 PM that evening? Larry Silverstein is heard on a PBS tape saying "I remember getting a call from the, E.R., fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the [WTC 7] building collapse," said Larry Silverstein, WTC Leaseholder. - PBS (9/10/02) Does "pull" mean demolished? What do you know about this? 14. Regarding the air quality of Ground Zero during and after the 9/11 attacks, did the City of New York at any time carryout screenings or tests independent of the EPA? If so, what were the results of those tests? Immediately after 9/11 did you, Mayor Giuliani, have any conversations with Christine Whitman about the air quality at Ground Zero and lower Manhattan? Where are all records of these conversations? What was the substance of these conversations? What actions were taken or not taken as a result of Ms. Whitman’s opinions or recommendations? Were you in agreement with Ms. Whitman’s official position to not deem Ground Zero a superfund site? If so, what was the basis of your reason? 15. On the morning of 9/11 Battalion Chief Pfeiffer stated over an open emergency radio that Flight 11 hitting WTC 1 was, “not an accident”. At exactly what time did you consider the City of NY under attack? Was it before or after the second plane had hit WTC 2? 16. During the summer of 2001 what contact did you have with the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force and FBI Headquarters? Former FBI Acting Director Thomas Pickard has said that the FBI shared all information concerning possible terrorist threats with NYC officials. What precautions and protocols did you enact as a result of JTTF information? What precautions and protocols did you enact as a result of the credible threat posed by al-Qaeda during the week of sentencing at the Embassy bombing trial at the Federal Courthouse in downtown New York City? 17. Please detail all contact you had during the summer of 2001 with FEMA. What actions were carried out at the direction of FEMA? Specifically, what was the content of your conversations with Mr. Joe Allbaugh? 18. Please explain the presence of the FBI at the WTC during the two weeks prior to 9/11. Were you informed of their increased surveillance? How was the City of New York included in such increased surveillance? What actions were carried out by the NYPD to facilitate the FBI’s increased surveillance? 19. Mr. Giuliani, immediately following the attacks an after action report was ordered for the Pentagon. Was a similar report ordered for New York City? If not, why not? ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne] According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down." The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites." Stratesec (Securacom) differs from other security companies which separate the function of consultant from that of service provider. The company defines itself as a "single-source" provider of "end-to-end" security services, including everything from diagnosis of existing systems to hiring subcontractors to installing video and electronic equipment. It also provides armored vehicles and security guards. The Dulles Internation contract is another matter. Dulles is regarded as "absolutely a sensitive airport," according to security consultant Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, due to its location, size, and the number of international carriers it serves. Black has not heard of Stratesec, but responds that for one company to handle security for both airports and airlines is somewhat unusual. It is also delicate for a security firm serving international facilities to be so interlinked with a foreign-owned company: "Somebody knew somebody," he suggested, or the contract would have been more closely scrutinized. As Black points out, "when you [a company] have a security contract, you know the inner workings of everything." And if another company is linked with the security company, then "What's on your computer is on their computer." ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Pre-9/11 World Trade Center Power-Down by Victor Thorn - April 23, 2004 Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place. Forbes, who was hired by Fiduciary in 1999 and is now stationed at a U.K. branch office, was working on the weekend of September 8-9, 2001, and said that his company was given three weeks advance notice that New York’s Port Authority would take out power in the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason: the Port Authority was performing a cabling upgrade to increase the WTC’s computer bandwidth. Forbes stated that Fiduciary Trust was one of the WTC’s first occupants after it was erected, and that a “power-down” had never been initiated prior to this occasion. He also stated that his company put forth a huge investment in time and resources to take down their computer systems due to the deliberate power outage. This process, Forbes recalled, began early Saturday morning (September 8th) and continued until mid-Sunday afternoon (September 9th) – approximately 30 hours. As a result of having its electricity cut, the WTC’s security cameras were rendered inoperative, as were its I.D. systems, and elevators to the upper floors. Forbes did stress, though, that there was power to the WTC’s lower floors, and that there were plenty of engineers going in-and-out of the WTC who had free access throughout the building due to its security system being knocked out. In an e-mail to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died (Sisyphus Press) and America’s Autopsy Report (Dandelion Books), Forbes wrote: “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.” Forbes didn’t think much of these occurrences at the time, and said that he worked until Monday morning (September 10th) to get all the computer systems back online. Due to his IT-related duties on Saturday & Sunday, Forbes had Tuesday, September 11th off, and thus watched the World Trade Center towers collapse from his apartment. While doing so, he recalled, “I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work.” In addition, Forbes says there were other peculiarities revolving around this unreported event, including: 1) Fiduciary employees trapped between the 90-97th floors of the South Tower told family members (via cell-phone calls) that they were hearing “bomb-like explosions” throughout the towers. 2) Video cameras positioned atop the World Trade Center which were used to feed daily images to local television stations were inexplicably inoperative that morning. 3) A Fiduciary employee who was on one of the lower floors and escaped immediately after the first (North) tower was struck, reported that he was amazed by the large number of FBI agents that were already on the streets surrounding the WTC complex only minutes after the initial strike. 4) Last but not least, Ann Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust and now a board member of Franklin Templeton, had just arrived at a conference hosted by Warren Buffet at the Offutt Air Force Base (home of the U.S. Strategic Command Headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska) when the 9-11 attacks took place. Coincidentally, later that day President George W. Bush flew into this very same base on Air Force One for “security reasons.” Even more chilling are the Offutt AFB ties to the CIA’s MK ULTRA experiments, Project Monarch, the Franklin Cover-Up, and the diabolical practices of Michael Aquino. (Type any of these words into a search engine for more information.) In the end, Forbes says that even though these disclosures could jeopardize his current employment, he has stepped forward because, “I have mailed this information to many people, including the 9/11 Commission, but no one seems to be registering these facts.” Obviously there are many unanswered questions to this story, and we will keep you updated as more information arrives. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// WTC surveillance tapes feared missing SARA KUGLER Associated Press NEW YORK - Surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are among the missing evidence as investigators try to figure out why the World Trade Center collapsed, federal officials said Monday. Many documents destroyed in the disaster "are pretty key in carrying out the work," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said. The 110-story towers collapsed after two hijacked jetliners plowed into the buildings in lower Manhattan on Sept. 11, 2001. Nearly 2,800 people were killed. Two hypotheses on the cause of the collapse have emerged since the National Institute of Standards and Technology began its $23 million probe three months ago. Both theories agree the jetliners damaged floor joints and columns inside and outside the buildings. But they vary on whether the fire-weakened columns failed and alone brought down the buildings or whether floor trusses sagged in the intense heat, pulling the columns inward to collapse. The lost records probably contain vital information that could help answer questions, Sunder said. Investigators are trying to locate copies of many destroyed documents from the building's owners and city agencies. Also missing are the original contract specifications for the buildings from the early 1970s. Many believed the towers were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 - the largest aircraft at the time, but much smaller than the jets that crashed into the buildings. Researchers plan to spend two years on the study. They will analyze trade center wreckage, rely on steel manufacturing experts and interview survivors, victims' relatives and rescue workers. They have also created a database of more than 1,900 photographs shot that day as the towers burned and fell and are asking for more. They are especially interested in photographs showing the south face of 7 World Trade Center, which was not hit by a plane but burned for hours before collapsing. An earlier federal study directed by a civil engineering group was criticized for not examining evacuation procedures. ON THE NET NIST: http://www.nist.gov ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// FAA Got Qaeda Warnings Before 9/11 52 Warnings Prior To Attacks; No 'Significant' Security Increase NEW YORK. Feb. 10. 2005 The 9/11 Commission takes the FAA to task for not taking significant security measures after receiving warnings. (CBS/AP) (AP) Federal Aviation Administration officials received 52 warnings prior to Sept. 11, 2001, from their own security experts about potential al Qaeda attacks, including some that mentioned airline hijackings or suicide attacks, The New York Times reported. The Times said in Thursday editions that a previously undisclosed report by the 9/11 commission that investigated the suicide airliner attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon detailed warnings given to FAA leaders from April to Sept. 10, 2001, about the radical Islamic terrorist group and its leader, Osama bin Laden. The commission report, written last August, said five security warnings mentioned al Qaeda's training for hijackings and two reports concerned suicide operations not connected to aviation. The Times said that a classified version and a partially declassified version of the 120-page report were given to the National Archives two weeks ago. The Times story cited the declassified version of the document. Al Felzenberg, former spokesman for the 9/11 commission, which went out of business last summer, said the government had not completed review of the report for declassification purposes until recently. He said the Justice Department delivered the two versions of the document to the Archives. An Archives spokeswoman said the unclassified version of the document was not yet available Wednesday night. The Times gave these highlights from the commission report: Aviation officials were "lulled into a false sense of security" and "intelligence that indicated a real and growing threat leading up to 9/ll did not stimulate significant increases in security procedures." It takes the FAA to task for not expanding the use of in-flight air marshals or tightening airport screening for weapons. It said FAA officials were more concerned with reducing airline congestion, lessening delays and easing air carriers' financial problems than thwarting a terrorist attack. Information in this report was available to members of the 9/11 commission when they issued their public report last summer. That report itself contained criticisms of FAA operations. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// WTC Cleanup Workers File Suit Accuse Tower Leaseholder, Companies Of Failing To Protect Them NEW YORK, Sept. 14, 2004 Proper respiratory gear would have allowed the workers to block out smoke, diesel exhaust, glass fibers, asbestos and other chemicals and prevent throat and lung diseases, according to the CDC study. (AP) Quote The lawsuit alleges that many workers did not have access to protective gear, and those who did were not taught how to wear it properly. (AP) Hundreds of people who worked on the World Trade Center cleanup have filed a class-action lawsuit against the leaseholder of the towers and those who supervised the job, alleging they did little to protect workers from dust, asbestos and other toxins in the air. The lawsuit, filed in federal court on Friday and made public Monday, was brought against Silverstein Properties and the four construction companies hired to oversee the removal of the 1.5 million tons of debris. David Worby, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said he will seek billions of dollars in compensation for victims. The lawsuit also asks for the establishment of a system to track for the next 20 years all those who were exposed. The lawsuit alleges that many workers did not have access to protective gear, and those who did were not taught how to wear it properly. While some of the plaintiffs suffer from afflictions ranging from tumors to heartburn, many say they show no symptoms from their work at the site, but have joined the suit because they fear they risk developing cancer in the future. "The tragic reality is that so many of the brave heroes who worked so tirelessly and unselfishly are becoming a second wave of casualties of this horrific attack, and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg," Worby said. Howard Rubenstein, a spokesman for trade center leaseholder Larry Silverstein, said the cleanup was conducted by the city and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "We had no control over that operation and no ability to supervise what safety precautions were taken," he said. The other defendants said they had not seen the complaint and had no immediate comment. The class-action case, with about 800 plaintiffs, was filed the last day before a federal three-year statute of limitations expired for lawsuits related to the terrorist attack. The government is already funding six health screening programs to monitor ground zero workers, but none are funded beyond 2009. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a study showing that many recovery workers suffered from respiratory problems long after the cleanup concluded, and that some still battle ailments. Problems include asthma, sinusitis, constant coughing and stuffy nose, facial pains, chest tightness, wheezing and shortness of breath. Proper respiratory gear would have allowed the workers to block out smoke, dust, diesel exhaust, pulverized cement, glass fibers, asbestos and other chemicals and prevent throat and lung diseases, according to the CDC study. It found that only about one in five of the workers wore respirators while they worked at the site. The four companies that led the cleanup were Turner Construction, AMEC Construction, Tully Construction and Bovis Lend Lease. According to AMEC's Web site, the company stationed safety experts on site during the cleanup and provided respirators, hard hats and safety goggles to workers. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Ground Zero Workers' Health Cloudy Long-Term Effect Of Ground Zero Dust Exposure Is In Question NEW YORK, Sept. 11, 2003 (CBS/The Early Show) Previous ImageNext Image (CBS) Many of the estimated 30,000 to 40,000 people who volunteered or worked at Ground Zero in the aftermath of Sept. 11 have reported developing health problems that still persist today. The Early Show Medical Correspondent Dr. Emily Senay talked to a few who are trying to cope with their respiratory problem. Volunteer rescue worker John Graham of Paramus, N.J. was among the first responders to the attack on the New York City's World Trade Center. He was engulfed by the cloud of debris when the first tower collapsed. "We just saw the cloud come down and there was a big gust of air that broke out all the windows," Graham said. "There was so much of it you actually gagged on it." Like many others, Graham is now paying the price for his good deeds. The rescue worker said he has reactive airway disease, asthma and his throat feels burnt. "It's slowed me down a lot," Graham said. "I'm not as active a father as I was." Experts say the health problems are due to exposure to a toxic cocktail of poisonous particles such as glass, cement, fiberglass, asbestos, jet fuel and other combustion products in the air at Ground Zero. "The reports and the EPA's press releases tended to accentuate the positive and not give the whole picture," Dr. Jacqueline Moline said. Moline heads the WTC Screening Program at Mt. Sinai Hospital to identify and track health problems among Ground Zero workers. "We've seen about 7,500 individuals thus far in our screening program and we know that over half of them are affected," he said. "They still have physical complaints." Even for those with no symptoms, the longer-term effects of exposure are unknown. "People should be monitored, who knows what can surface from this in a few years," New York Police Officer George Sabando said. "Hopefully down the road, we'll see that we're all okay — I hope." Currently, the U.S. Congress has set aside money for a long-term follow-up program. The New York City Health Department has created a registry to track the long-term health problems that could possibly surface over time as a result of the inhalation of toxic substances at Ground Zero. Also, many with health problems from exposure to the dust at Ground Zero are struggling because their worker's compensation are being processed slowly. Some men and women are using whatever resources at their disposal. Some, however, have lost their jobs as a result of their ailments, which may compound the problem. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Health Woes Plague WTC Rescuers WASHINGTON, Sept. 8, 2003 Quote "Some may never recover." Dr. Stephen Levin (AP) When Dan Kochensparger was on his hands and knees sifting through cement, metal and other debris at the World Trade Center site in New York, specks were floating in the thick air. He didn't think about what they were. He was doing his job as a hazardous materials specialist, monitoring the wreckage as he and other members of Ohio's emergency response team searched for survivors of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The breathing problems came later. "The air was pretty much filled with (particulate matter) the whole time. We didn't realize it, but a lot of the photo documentation we had done, there were particles on the pictures," said Kochensparger, a 21-year veteran of the Upper Arlington Fire Department in central Ohio. A federal program created to monitor the health effects of work at the site has found thousands still suffering from asthma, pneumonia, bronchitis and depression. It's the first time the health of rescue and recovery workers has been followed so closely after a major disaster. As the second anniversary of the attacks nears, new information coming out on long-term health implications of rescue work is getting the attention of emergency officials and prompting Congress to consider creating federal screening for future disasters. "A lot of us in the rescue business don't think about the long-term effects of our work," said Kettering Fire Chief Robert Zickler, captain of Ohio Task Force One, a 72-member team dispatched to the Trade Center wreckage for 10 days. Doctors monitoring the health of people who dug through the rubble at Ground Zero now say the airborne particles likely were pulverized concrete. When inhaled, it can burn the lungs. When swallowed, it can inflame the stomach lining, causing heartburn. Kochensparger came home with a cold and a persistent cough. His doctor diagnosed walking pneumonia and bronchitis. He wasn't alone. "Some may never recover. They may be walking through a street and get a sudden blast of exhaust and their chest will tighten," said Dr. Stephen Levin, co-director of the federal screening program for World Trade Center workers, which is being administered by New York's Mount Sinai Medical Center. To date, about 7,500 of the estimated 30,000 workers who toiled at the ruins have been examined under the $12 million program created in July 2002. With $4 million in extra funding this year, doctors expect to examine 4,500 more by March 2004. Preliminary results show 48 percent of workers with ear, nose and throat problems such as nasal congestion, hoarseness, headaches and throat irritation. Thirty percent have pulmonary problems, including shortness of breath, persistent cough and wheezing. About 19 percent of workers have been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder - at least double the rate seen in the general population. The data reflect 1,100 patients screened between July 2002 and April 2003. But program directors say patients have continued to report symptoms at about the same rate since then. "We are seeing people now in our screening program - two years later - who are still suffering these symptoms," Levin said in a recent interview. It's too early to determine whether any of the workers will one day suffer from lung or other types of cancer as a result of their assistance, he said. A final report on the workers' health is expected next spring. Meantime, senators from Ohio and New York are working to create a federal medical screening program for emergency personnel and others who respond to future disasters. The Federal Emergency Management Agency, which funds the existing program, lacks authority to conduct such long-term monitoring. "If a horrific event occurs, those who risk their lives to respond must know that their health needs will be met," said Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, who chairs the Senate Environment and Public Works subcommittee that oversees FEMA. His bill passed the committee in July and is pending before the Senate, where no opposition is expected. It wouldn't cost anything to create the program, and funding to operate it would be appropriated as needed. Workers whose job it is to rush straight into one disaster after another can't believe they have gone so long without the health tracking, which wasn't in place for emergency crews who responded to the Oklahoma City bombing or to California's earthquakes. "We go in and answer calls for the safety of other people, that's what we are paid to do," said Robert Hessinger, a paramedic on the Ohio team who had trouble taking deep breaths after the Sept. 11 mission. "There also needs to be things in place to look out for our safety," Hessinger said. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Unasked questions The 9/11 commission should ask who authorized the evacuation of Saudi nationals in the days following the attacks By Craig Unger | April 11, 2004 IN ITS TOUGH QUESTIONING of Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice, the 9/11 commission has already shown itself to be more resolute than some skeptics predicted. Many Americans now realize that multiple warnings of an Al Qaeda attack on American soil crossed the desks of Bush administration officials in the months leading up to 9/11. The administration's previously unchallenged narrative has begun to unravel. But when hearings resume on Tuesday, we may learn exactly how tough the commission is prepared to be. This time the stars will be Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI director Robert S. Mueller III, among others. When they testify -- especially Mueller -- we will see whether or not the commission has the stomach to address what may be the single most egregious security lapse related to the attacks: the evacuation of approximately 140 Saudis just two days after 9/11. This episode raises particularly sensitive questions for the administration. Never before in history has a president of the United States had such a close relationship with another foreign power as President Bush and his father have had with the Saudi royal family, the House of Saud. I have traced more than $1.4 billion in investments and contracts that went from the House of Saud over the past 20 years to companies in which the Bushes and their allies have had prominent positions -- Harken Energy, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group among them. Is it possible that President Bush himself played a role in authorizing the evacuation of the Saudis after 9/11? What did he know and when did he know it? Let's go back to Sept. 13, 2001, and look at several scenes that were taking place simultaneously. Three thousand people had just been killed. The toxic rubble of the World Trade Center was still ablaze. American airspace was locked down. Not even Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who were out of the country, were allowed to fly home. And a plane bearing a replacement heart for a desperately ill Seattle man was forced down short of its destination by military aircraft. Not since the days of the Wright Brothers had American skies been so empty. But some people desperately wanted to fly out of the country. That same day, Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States and a long-time friend of the Bush family, dropped by the White House. He and President George W. Bush went out to the Truman Balcony for a private conversation. We do not know everything they discussed, but the Saudis themselves say that Prince Bandar was trying to orchestrate the evacuation of scores of Saudis from the United States despite the lockdown on air travel. Unasked questions The 9/11 commission should ask who authorized the evacuation of Saudi nationals in the days following the attacks By Craig Unger | April 11, 2004 IN ITS TOUGH QUESTIONING of Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice, the 9/11 commission has already shown itself to be more resolute than some skeptics predicted. Many Americans now realize that multiple warnings of an Al Qaeda attack on American soil crossed the desks of Bush administration officials in the months leading up to 9/11. The administration's previously unchallenged narrative has begun to unravel. But when hearings resume on Tuesday, we may learn exactly how tough the commission is prepared to be. This time the stars will be Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI director Robert S. Mueller III, among others. When they testify -- especially Mueller -- we will see whether or not the commission has the stomach to address what may be the single most egregious security lapse related to the attacks: the evacuation of approximately 140 Saudis just two days after 9/11. This episode raises particularly sensitive questions for the administration. Never before in history has a president of the United States had such a close relationship with another foreign power as President Bush and his father have had with the Saudi royal family, the House of Saud. I have traced more than $1.4 billion in investments and contracts that went from the House of Saud over the past 20 years to companies in which the Bushes and their allies have had prominent positions -- Harken Energy, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group among them. Is it possible that President Bush himself played a role in authorizing the evacuation of the Saudis after 9/11? What did he know and when did he know it? Let's go back to Sept. 13, 2001, and look at several scenes that were taking place simultaneously. Three thousand people had just been killed. The toxic rubble of the World Trade Center was still ablaze. American airspace was locked down. Not even Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who were out of the country, were allowed to fly home. And a plane bearing a replacement heart for a desperately ill Seattle man was forced down short of its destination by military aircraft. Not since the days of the Wright Brothers had American skies been so empty. But some people desperately wanted to fly out of the country. That same day, Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States and a long-time friend of the Bush family, dropped by the White House. He and President George W. Bush went out to the Truman Balcony for a private conversation. We do not know everything they discussed, but the Saudis themselves say that Prince Bandar was trying to orchestrate the evacuation of scores of Saudis from the United States despite the lockdown on air travel. Page 2 of 3 -- Meanwhile, a small plane in Tampa, Fla. took off for Lexington, Ky. According to former Tampa cop Dan Grossi and former FBI agent Manny Perez, who were on the flight to provide security, the passengers included three young Saudis. Given the national security crisis, both Grossi and Perez were astonished that they were allowed to take off. The flight could not have taken place without White House approval. The plane taking off from Tampa was the first of at least eight aircraft that began flying across the country, stopping in at least 12 American cities and carrying at least 140 passengers out of the country over the next week or so. The planes included a lavishly customized Boeing 727 airliner that was equipped with a master bedroom suite, huge flat-screen TVs, and a bathroom with gold-plated fixtures. Many of the passengers were high-ranking members of the royal House of Saud. About 24 of them were members of the bin Laden family, which owned the Saudi Binladin Group, a multibillion-dollar construction conglomerate. All this occurred at a time when intelligence analysts knew that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, that Saudi money was one of the major forces behind Al Qaeda, and that the prime suspect -- Osama bin Laden -- was Saudi as well. For its part, the Bush administration has erected the proverbial stone wall on the topic of the Saudi evacuation. The White House told me that it is "absolutely confident" the Sept. 13 flight from Tampa did not take place. The FBI said "unequivocally" it played no role in facilitating any flights. The Federal Aviation Administration said that the Tampa-to-Lexington flight was not in the logs and did not take place. But they are all wrong. . . . How can I be sure? I have interviewed not only Dan Grossi and Manny Perez, but also sources who helped orchestrate the flights. I tracked down photos of the interior of one of the planes. Former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke told me, and later the 9/11 commission, about discussions in the White House that allowed the flights to begin. Clarke says his advice was that the Saudis should be able to leave only after they had been vetted by the FBI. A basic procedure in any crime investigation is to interview friends and relatives of the primary suspect. When I talked to FBI special agents who participated in the Saudi evacuation, however, they said that they identified the passengers boarding the flights but did not have lengthy interviews with them. "Here you have an attack with substantial links to Saudi Arabia," says John L. Martin, a former Justice Department official who supervised investigation and prosecution of national security offenses for 18 years. "You would want to talk to people in the Saudi royal family and the Saudi government, particularly since they have pledged cooperation. Unasked questions The 9/11 commission should ask who authorized the evacuation of Saudi nationals in the days following the attacks By Craig Unger | April 11, 2004 IN ITS TOUGH QUESTIONING of Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice, the 9/11 commission has already shown itself to be more resolute than some skeptics predicted. Many Americans now realize that multiple warnings of an Al Qaeda attack on American soil crossed the desks of Bush administration officials in the months leading up to 9/11. The administration's previously unchallenged narrative has begun to unravel. But when hearings resume on Tuesday, we may learn exactly how tough the commission is prepared to be. This time the stars will be Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI director Robert S. Mueller III, among others. When they testify -- especially Mueller -- we will see whether or not the commission has the stomach to address what may be the single most egregious security lapse related to the attacks: the evacuation of approximately 140 Saudis just two days after 9/11. This episode raises particularly sensitive questions for the administration. Never before in history has a president of the United States had such a close relationship with another foreign power as President Bush and his father have had with the Saudi royal family, the House of Saud. I have traced more than $1.4 billion in investments and contracts that went from the House of Saud over the past 20 years to companies in which the Bushes and their allies have had prominent positions -- Harken Energy, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group among them. Is it possible that President Bush himself played a role in authorizing the evacuation of the Saudis after 9/11? What did he know and when did he know it? Let's go back to Sept. 13, 2001, and look at several scenes that were taking place simultaneously. Three thousand people had just been killed. The toxic rubble of the World Trade Center was still ablaze. American airspace was locked down. Not even Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who were out of the country, were allowed to fly home. And a plane bearing a replacement heart for a desperately ill Seattle man was forced down short of its destination by military aircraft. Not since the days of the Wright Brothers had American skies been so empty. But some people desperately wanted to fly out of the country. That same day, Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States and a long-time friend of the Bush family, dropped by the White House. He and President George W. Bush went out to the Truman Balcony for a private conversation. We do not know everything they discussed, but the Saudis themselves say that Prince Bandar was trying to orchestrate the evacuation of scores of Saudis from the United States despite the lockdown on air travel. Meanwhile, a small plane in Tampa, Fla. took off for Lexington, Ky. According to former Tampa cop Dan Grossi and former FBI agent Manny Perez, who were on the flight to provide security, the passengers included three young Saudis. Given the national security crisis, both Grossi and Perez were astonished that they were allowed to take off. The flight could not have taken place without White House approval. The plane taking off from Tampa was the first of at least eight aircraft that began flying across the country, stopping in at least 12 American cities and carrying at least 140 passengers out of the country over the next week or so. The planes included a lavishly customized Boeing 727 airliner that was equipped with a master bedroom suite, huge flat-screen TVs, and a bathroom with gold-plated fixtures. Many of the passengers were high-ranking members of the royal House of Saud. About 24 of them were members of the bin Laden family, which owned the Saudi Binladin Group, a multibillion-dollar construction conglomerate. All this occurred at a time when intelligence analysts knew that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, that Saudi money was one of the major forces behind Al Qaeda, and that the prime suspect -- Osama bin Laden -- was Saudi as well. For its part, the Bush administration has erected the proverbial stone wall on the topic of the Saudi evacuation. The White House told me that it is "absolutely confident" the Sept. 13 flight from Tampa did not take place. The FBI said "unequivocally" it played no role in facilitating any flights. The Federal Aviation Administration said that the Tampa-to-Lexington flight was not in the logs and did not take place. But they are all wrong. . . . How can I be sure? I have interviewed not only Dan Grossi and Manny Perez, but also sources who helped orchestrate the flights. I tracked down photos of the interior of one of the planes. Former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke told me, and later the 9/11 commission, about discussions in the White House that allowed the flights to begin. Clarke says his advice was that the Saudis should be able to leave only after they had been vetted by the FBI. A basic procedure in any crime investigation is to interview friends and relatives of the primary suspect. When I talked to FBI special agents who participated in the Saudi evacuation, however, they said that they identified the passengers boarding the flights but did not have lengthy interviews with them. "Here you have an attack with substantial links to Saudi Arabia," says John L. Martin, a former Justice Department official who supervised investigation and prosecution of national security offenses for 18 years. "You would want to talk to people in the Saudi royal family and the Saudi government, particularly since they have pledged cooperation." Page 3 of 3 -- Robert Mueller had taken over at the FBI just one week before 9/11 and cannot be held responsible for the bureau's shortcomings before the attacks. But he should be asked about the departure of the Saudis. How is it possible that this could have happened? Did the White House order the evacuation -- and thereby interfere in an investigation into the murder of nearly 3,000 people? If such interviews had taken place, investigators might have uncovered a trove of intelligence. During the summer of 2001, just a few months before 9/11, several of the bin Ladens attended the wedding of Osama's son in Afghanistan, where Osama himself was present. Carmen bin Laden, an estranged sister-in-law of the Al Qaeda leader, has said she suspects many family members have continued to aid and abet him. Could the bin Ladens have shed light on these assertions? Two relatives, Abdullah and Omar bin Laden, had been investigated by the FBI as recently as September 2001 for their ties to the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, which has allegedly funded terrorism. The 9/11 commission should ask Mueller if they were on board. I have also obtained documents showing that Abdullah and Omar were being investigated by the FBI in September 2001. Mueller should be asked about the status of that investigation. The Clinton administration had attempted to crack down on the Saudi funding of Islamic charities that funneled money to terrorists. More recently we have since had one revelation after another about Saudi royals who "inadvertently" funded terrorists. The Commission should ask Mueller if the Saudis who were allowed to leave were involved in financing terrorism. How could the FBI be sure without seriously interrogating them? In addition, I have obtained passenger lists for four of the Saudi evacuation flights. (The documents can be seen at my website, www.houseofbush.com.) Out of several dozen names on those lists, the most astonishing is that of the late Prince Ahmed bin Salman. A prominent figure in the Saudi royal family, Prince Ahmed is best known in this country as the owner of War Emblem, winner of the 2002 Kentucky Derby. But his name is of interest for another reason. As reported last year by Gerald Posner in "Why America Slept," Prince Ahmed not only had alleged ties to Al Qaeda, but may also have known in advance that there would be attacks on 9/11. According to Posner, Abu Zubaydah, an Al Qaeda operative who was part of Osama bin Laden's inner circle and was captured in 2002, made these assertions when he was interrogated by the CIA. The commission should ask Mueller about Zubaydah's interrogation. They should also ask whether the FBI interrogated Prince Ahmed before his departure. But Prince Ahmed will never be able to answer any questions because not long after the CIA interrogation, he died of a heart attack at the age of 43. Yet we do know that he was on one of the flights. . . . That leaves the question of the White House's participation in expediting the departure of so many Saudis who may have been able to shed light on the greatest crime in American history. Is it possible that the long relationship between President Bush's family and the House of Saud led Bush to turn a blind eye to the Saudi role in Islamic fundamentalist terrorism? Rather than aggressively seeking justice for the victims of 9/11, did the president instead authorize the departure of rich Saudi royals without even subjecting them to interrogation? That may be the most difficult question of all for the commission to tackle. If the commission dares to confront this issue, it will undoubtedly be accused of politicizing the most important national security investigations in American history -- in an election year, no less. If it does not, it risks something far worse -- the betrayal of the thousands who lost their lives that day, and of the living who want answers. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 9/11 Exposed Deadly Flaws in Rescue Plan By, July 7, 2002 This article was reported and written by Jim Dwyer, Kevin Flynn and Ford Fessenden. Minutes after the south tower collapsed at the World Trade Center, police helicopters hovered near the remaining tower to check its condition. "About 15 floors down from the top, it looks like it's glowing red," the pilot of one helicopter, Aviation 14, radioed at 10:07 a.m. "It's inevitable." Seconds later, another pilot reported: "I don't think this has too much longer to go. I would evacuate all people within the area of that second building." Those clear warnings, captured on police radio tapes, were transmitted 21 minutes before the building fell, and officials say they were relayed to police officers, most of whom managed to escape. Yet most firefighters never heard those warnings, or earlier orders to get out. Their radio system failed frequently that morning. Even if the radio network had been reliable, it was not linked to the police system. And the police and fire commanders guiding the rescue efforts did not talk to one another during the crisis. Cut off from critical information, at least 121 firefighters, most in striking distance of safety, died when the north tower fell, an analysis by The New York Times has found. Faced with devastating attacks, the city's emergency personnel formed an indelible canvas of sacrifice, man by man and woman by woman. They helped rescue thousands. They saved lives. They risked their own. From the first moments to the last, however, their efforts were plagued by failures of communication, command and control. Now, after months of grief, both the Fire and Police Departments are approaching the end of delicate internal reviews of their responses to the attack. Those reviews have concluded that major changes are needed in how the agencies go about their work and prepare for the next disaster, senior officials say. A six-month examination by The Times found that the rescuers' ability to save themselves and others was hobbled by technical difficulties, a history of tribal feuding and management lapses that have been part of the emergency response culture in New York City and other regions for years. When the firefighters needed to communicate, their radio system failed, just as it had in those same buildings eight years earlier, during the response to the 1993 bombing at the trade center. No other agency lost communications on Sept. 11 as broadly, or to such devastating effect, as the Fire Department. Throughout the crisis, the two largest emergency departments, Police and Fire, barely spoke to coordinate strategy or to share intelligence about building conditions. During those final minutes, most firefighters inside the north tower did not know the other building had crumbled, and how urgent it was for them to get out. Instead, dozens of firefighters were catching their breath on the 19th floor of the tower, witnesses say. Others were awaiting orders in the lobby. Still others were evacuating the disabled and the frightened. To this day, the Fire Department cannot say just how many firefighters were sent into the towers, and where they died. It lost track of them, in part because some companies did not check in with chiefs. Individual firefighters jumped on overcrowded trucks, against policy. Others, ordered off the fire trucks, grabbed rides in cars. The city's intricate network of safety coverage showed signs of unraveling that morning because of the headlong rush to Lower Manhattan. Police officers left their posts, senior police officials said. A chief with the Emergency Medical Service said they had no ambulances for more than 400 calls. The region's bridges, tunnels, and ports were drained of protection, said the chief of the Port Authority police. Although Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani created the Office of Emergency Management in 1996 and spent nearly $25 million to coordinate emergency response, trade center officials said the agency had not conducted an emergency exercise there that included the Fire Department, the police and the Port Authority's emergency staff. The Fire Department began its first self-examination in December, when nearly 50 senior fire officials took part in a two-day planning exercise with the United States Naval War College. The college evaluators concluded: "As a function of command and control, it was evident that the Fire Department has no formal system to evaluate problems or develop plans for multiple complex events. It was equally evident that the Fire Department has conducted very little formal planning at the operational level." Thomas Von Essen, the city's fire commissioner from 1996 through 2001, and a former president of the main fire union, said he agreed with that analysis, which was undertaken to explore the ability to respond to major disasters. The fire commissioner has limited authority to hold senior chiefs accountable, Mr. Von Essen said, because nearly all enjoy Civil Service protection. "The pain is still there and it'll be there forever," Mr. Von Essen said. "But you have to start thinking about the reality of the world that we live in today. And that demands better leadership, more accountable leadership, a better-trained leadership, a more disciplined leadership that then filters down to a better-trained and more disciplined set of troops." Many chiefs, for their part, have long cited Mr. Von Essen's leadership as a major department failing. The results of other reviews, covering police and fire performance, are due within a few weeks from the consulting firm McKinsey & Company. For Mr. Von Essen, a searing topic is the high number of firefighter casualties in the north tower. The collapse of the south tower after 57 minutes shocked the fire commanders. Yet more than a third of the 343 firefighter deaths were in the north tower, even though it stood 29 minutes longer. The failure of more firefighters to escape in those 29 minutes baffles Mr. Von Essen. He believes many got word to leave. "Should we know the answers to all of that stuff by now? Absolutely," Mr. Von Essen said. "But do we really want to know the answers to these questions? I don't think the department really wants to know." He could not explain why the police had not reported to fire commanders, the official leaders of the response. "That day the police did not hook up with the Fire Department," Mr. Von Essen said. "I don't know why." Too many firefighters, he said, were sent into the towers, and too many came without being told they were needed. "I've been a firefighter since 1970, and have often stood on floors where we needed 10 people and had 30," Mr. Von Essen said. "There's a lack of control that's dangerous on an everyday basis to firefighters." Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said the eagerness to respond could put both police officers and the city at risk. "People got on the subway and came down," he said. "We need a much more controlled response these days. Why? Because we have to be concerned about secondary events." Both Mr. Von Essen and Mr. Kelly said rigorous scrutiny of their agencies was vital. "We should not second-guess the people at the scene, or the way they handled it that day — they did a terrific job at the scene, and you will not find better chiefs anywhere in the country than the ones who ran things," Mr. Von Essen said. "I think we should second-guess our procedures, our policies, our history." Mr. Kelly, who led the police a decade ago and returned in January, said: "Now, literally, that the dust has settled, we are obligated to look at these things and to learn lessons. We are in the business of emergency response. That's our business, every day. We have to think in a systematic way." To explore the emergency response on Sept. 11, Times reporters interviewed more than 100 firefighters, police officers, emergency medical workers, government officials and witnesses. Those interviews were supplemented by reviews of 1,000 pages of oral histories collected by the Fire Department, 20 hours of police and fire radio transmissions and 4,000 pages of city records, and by creating a database that tracked 2,500 eyewitness reports of sightings of fire companies, individual firefighters and other rescue personnel that morning. The city has refused to release thousands of pages of accounts by firefighters and their superiors. On Friday, Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta said the city intended to create a radio channel that could be shared by police officers and firefighters, among other changes. "There is no question there were communications problems at this catastrophic incident," he said. Bernard B. Kerik, the police commissioner at the time, said he did not believe that any communication problems between the agencies had significantly affected their performance. "I was not made aware that day that we were having any difficulty coordinating," he said. Communications 'Down to the Lobby,' But No One Came Battalion Chief Joseph Pfeifer held his two-way radio to his ear. He tried to edge away from the noise in the north tower lobby, hoping the reception would improve. Still no good. Minutes before, he stood on a street corner in Lower Manhattan and watched as American Airlines Flight 11 flew directly overhead and crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center. Now, as the first chief to reach the building, he was sending fire companies up the stairs, including one led by his own brother, Lt. Kevin Pfeifer, who did not survive. Then he found that he had no way to speak with the rescuers starting the long climb: once again, the firefighters were having terrible radio problems inside this high-rise building. More than eight years earlier, hundreds of firefighters came to the World Trade Center after terrorists tried to bomb one of the towers off its foundation. "Communications were a serious problem from the outset," Anthony L. Fusco, then chief of the department, had warned in a 1994 federal report on the Fire Department's response to that attack. They had lost touch with firefighters trying to extinguish the smoldering bomb crater underground, and with others who had climbed clear to the top of the towers. Now, Chief Pfeifer tried to turn on a device known as a repeater, which had been installed at 5 World Trade Center to help solve those problems by boosting the radio signal strength. The repeater didn't seem to be working, Chief Pfeifer said later. Another fire chief arriving at the trade center tried a second repeater in his department car. That did not work, either. As hundreds of firefighters climbed toward the upper floors where 1,100 people were trapped, one communications post after another was proving unreliable. Even commanders spread among four separate posts could not get through. "I wasn't getting communications and I couldn't communicate into the building," Deputy Assistant Chief Albert J. Turi, now retired, said in an interview. By 9:30 a.m., after both planes had struck, a rumor was circulating that a third hijacked plane was headed to New York. Assistant Chief Joseph Callan recalled feeling the north tower move. "I made the decision that the building was no longer safe," the chief told the Fire Department's oral history interviewers. "All units in Building 1," he announced over the radio at 9:32. "All units in Building 1, come out, down to the lobby. Everybody down to the lobby." Virtually no one answered his call. It seemed that few people, apart from those standing near him, heard it. Chief Peter Hayden, who was at the scene, said: "We had ordered the firefighters down, but we weren't getting acknowledgments. We were very concerned about it." When Assistant Chief Donald J. Burns arrived, he reminded his colleagues of the severe communication problems during the 1993 bombing, Chief Hayden recalled. Commanders were forced that day to rely on runners to deliver vital messages. "Pre-plan and build contingency plans," Chief Burns wrote in the 1994 federal report. "Our effectiveness is only as good as our ability to communicate." On Sept. 11, he took command of operations in the south tower, the second building to be hit, and was killed. The radios the firefighters carried into the buildings that day were identical to the ones they had brought into the trade center eight years earlier. By the department's own estimation, those radios, some of which were 15 years old, were outdated. "There were problems with the radios at virtually every high-rise fire," said Deputy Chief Nicholas J. Visconti, who was the commander in Midtown Manhattan for three years. The radio problems, many officials say, are a symptom of the department's resistance to new technology. "We're dinosaurs," said Richard J. Sheirer, the former director of the city's Office of Emergency Management and a former fire dispatcher. David Rosensweig, the president of the fire alarm dispatchers' union, says the city has been talking for more than a decade about improving its computer-aided dispatch system. Early in 2001, the department replaced its old analog radios with a new generation that used digital technology. The new models operated on higher frequencies and were judged somewhat better at penetrating buildings, but several firefighters said they had been unable to communicate in emergencies, so the digital radios were pulled from service in March 2001. Other cities have been no swifter at solving the problems of communication at high-rise fires, industry professionals said. The department did try to make some improvements after the terrorist bombing at the trade center in 1993, like the repeater installed on 5 World Trade Center to amplify the radio signal. The city police and Port Authority police have similar repeaters and neither agency experienced significant radio problems on Sept. 11, officials said. Even now, the source of the Fire Department's radio problems remains murky. "I've asked five people in the Fire Department already, and I get a different answer from most of them," Mr. Von Essen said. For a while, officials from the Fire Department and the Port Authority said the Fire Department repeater had been disabled by debris from the first plane. Now, however, Port Authority officials say they have proof that the repeater did work: tape recordings discovered in January or February with fire radio transmissions that were successfully routed through the repeater that day. Some companies on higher floors were able to communicate. Squad 252 had been leaving the north tower, but it decided to help another company, Rescue 1, that was on a higher floor, said Firefighter Steve Modica, who heard the two companies talk over the radio. Neither company survived. Other firefighters appear to have been using one radio channel while evacuation orders went out over another, according to the accounts of several firefighters. In many other instances, firefighters said they simply never got the order to leave because the radio system worked only intermittently. Firefighter Modica said he tried different channels, without success, to reach a friend who had gone up ahead of him. "It's a disgrace," he said. "The police are talking to each other. It's a no-brainer: Get us what they're using. We send people to the moon, and you mean to tell me a firefighter can't talk to a guy two floors above him?" Command Distrust Separates Police and Fire Almost an hour after the first plane struck, the wind shifted, and for a moment the blanket of smoke on the roofs of the towers lifted slightly. Perhaps there was a chance to save some people at the top of the buildings. "As soon as it's feasible, we need to go on the roof," one police officer said on his radio. From the air, a second police officer replied: "Aviation 12, we're taking a look; we're going to look at the northwest corner of north building." On the ground, a team of police emergency service officers gathered rappelling outfits for the helicopters. For fire chiefs, the police helicopters could also be invaluable: the firefighters' climb to the 80th floor during the 1993 attack lasted four hours, and the blaze in the north tower was 15 floors above that. Even if roof rescues proved too risky, as police commanders later decided, the fire chiefs wanted to see what the fires were doing to the buildings. "At one point, I was asked to get the operations with the helicopter into motion," Chief Pfeifer said in his oral history, but he could not reach the dispatcher. He recited problems — a missing radio, jammed phone lines, no one answering — but the simplest solution of all was not available to Chief Pfeifer: a face-to-face conversation with a police supervisor. No police supervisors reported to the lobby command posts set up by the Fire Department to coordinate efforts. The police established their command post three blocks away at the corner of Church a

OWN-the-NWO, What's your take on the stolen elections? How about Mumia? Did Bush allow the Black people to drown in New Orleans? If these aren't your fields of expertise, maybe some other moron in the network can take up the slack.

Is there some sort of prize for you networkers to the guy with the longest, most incomprehensible post?

Good! Something should shake, & wake up the Golfing world. About time.
Message from another " Crazy Crackpot " - Here is a list of questions you should be asking, & ask yourself:
From Conspiracy Realist, from myspace, & a quote + request of a dying man - "

Why was Dick Cheney in charge of NORAD on 9/11?

Why did the 9/11 commission OMIT any reference to building 7 falling on 9/11?

Why were George Bush, and Dick Cheney allowed to testify without being under oath for the 9/11 commission?

Why were so many trades made days before the events on 9/11 that involved pulling money OUT of American Airlines stock?

Why did Condoleezza Rice warn the mayor of SF not to fly on 9/11?

I'd love for someone in the government to prove us wrong by reopening the investigation.

I was there, and I am dying for my service that day as a NYC Police Officer.

There is nothing unpatriotic about demanding answers from your government's avoidance of questions!

Any questions?

Yeah, I advise you to stick to golf. Some math on the swing.
& then the ball goes bouncey on the grass, & goes in a whole.
An amazing display of athleticism! 8']
& many get paid big mucho $$$ for it. That I never will understand.
(& before you have gathered ALL of the FACTS ? Don't bash on Conspiracy Theorist.
We are fighting the NWO, & the fascist takeover of this country. Most of us are the only ones standing between them, & the complete ruin of this nation. If it is not already too late.)

I admit, I'm not good at the game, & many who do play have much enjoyment from it.
But, your ignorance surpasses you. Why is it that conspiracy people,like me, are considered looney? & wacko for speaking out agains the Bush Admin. ? The insanity & corruption of our Government? Because, you are manipulated to think that way. Part of the mind-control. Many who have woken up, & a few like yourself who have not awaked yet. How many times does the Govt. have to LIE to you, before you stop believeing them? DO YOUR RESEARCH & HOMEWORK. IF you STUDY the Information that is available to you? You really don't have any excuse.

Google video, look up the free movie Terror Storm, by Alex Jones. That may be a real shocker & too heavey for you, at your present level. But will help to wake you up. & The Road To Tyranny is also excellent. More on the beginning ground.

Politics is obviously not your thing.
Neither is the fact that 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB, apparently.
You will learn.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/govknow.html

Take care.

Mumia-

cop had a 45 bullet in him

mumia had a 38


unless 38's can shoot 45's theres somthing wrong with that picture.


elections.

programmer testifying before grand jury.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5491990616994595760

P.S. It's not a matter of wanting al "manbearpig" gore with his psudo science global warming movie,

or skull and bones kerry, who was just the democratic version of bush, it's about trying to save this nation, from them as well as bush, but you won't understand that considering the whole world splits left/right to you.


the katrina incident was a failure of government on ALL LEVELS, local, state, federal. but that comes as no suprise to a libertarian. I look at all the able bodied indivuals that didn't pack up their shit and run, and just sat around expecting the government to save them as getting exactly what they asked for, nothing, cause that's how much worth government is in taking care of things that are your own responsibility.

You can thank all the laws we've enacted over the last 100 years that mimic the 10 planks of the communist manifesto, and the creeping socalism for that.

Hey Alex. All I have seen you do is just name calling and spout randomn ramblings with an attempt to demean the character of all these people. There is just one thing I have not seen you do.... provide factual and credible evidence that discounts our facts that we provide and our claims that string together these facts into a storyline which makes more sense than the official government story.

As for the whole left-wing name calling, most every one who has challenged Chris' blog DOES NOT have a political affiliation due to the fact that both parties are 2 sides of the same coin. One promotes socialist communist agendas such as welfare, big gov't, and income taxes (violates the 4th amendment) and the other party promotes corporatism fascist policies such as massive privatization, corporate welfare, and freedom-from-accountability acts.

I am not a liberal and I am not a conservative.... If you must know, I am a Constitutionalist and a Libertarian. I stand for government being restricted to within the confines of the Constitution and that it should be reduced to what its duties are outlined in the Constitution.

Any member of our government that violates the Constitution should be fired or impeached and depending on their actions, tried in a court of law. It is no coincidence (you should no that coincidences do not exist in the political realm) that this administration has been on a crusade to undermine and destroy our Constitution and our civil liberties using 9-11 as a pretext for its actions.

You are a fool if you think governents do not harm their own people as a means to an end. I dare you to say that after reading history...TRUE HISTORY I must emphasize, not what is spouted to you by your favorite political pundit.

Also, this may help to wake you up.

http://www.sitespaces.net/mail.php?readbulletin&27684

That is outlined proof of explosives by military experts. It wasn't the fuel from the planes, that caused them to collapse. Many witnesses heard explosions, & bombs were set. After the 2 planes had already hit. People messaged other on phones from inside the towers. & wtc Building #7 was destroyed by demolition, as were the WTC's. + a bomb went off in WTC #6 , also. Bush's brother, happened to own building #7 too. What a coincidence. It is/was what is known as a " FALSE FLAG OPERATION ". If you do not know what that is ??
Then you really do need to shut up.
If you do know what it is? Good for you. &, well, go play golf.

~Thomas ( $_$ )

U$A
There is also a book you should read, Welcome to the U.S.S.A. By Ryan Dawson.
look for it online, or Barnes & Noble, etc.. U$A

$$$

enjoy your money. ( while it last ) not much longer

Whew, Alex recommended that I check out this blog entry, and I see that the tin-foil-hat crowd is out in full force.

First of all, were you amazed when our "aerial defenses" were thwarted in the seventies? I ask because airplane hijackings are not uncommon; history has proven that they're very feasible undertakings. Moreover, why would anyone at the time have assumed that these would be anything other than routine hijackings? After all, theretofore every single hijacking had involved individuals who merely wanted to take the craft some place that was not its intended destination.

Anyway, if you examine the conspiracy theory logically and exercise COMPLETE thought, you'll realize that it's riddled with holes, is thoroughly untenable and, quite frankly, idiotic. And while I won't elaborate much, I will mention one refutatory point. We know that Arab men took the planes by force and terrorized the passengers, and we know that they sacrificed themselves for their cause. And we know this because, among other things, the relatives of numerous passengers were talking to the passengers on cellphones.

Now, were those Arab men plants, working for the US government? Did they sacrifice themselves not for Allah and the promise of an eternity in Heaven but for George Bush? Or, were the every day folks who spoke to their loved ones during their last minutes government plants? Were they willing to sacrifice their loved ones for Bush? Or, were those people not really their loved ones? Did they not really talk to them on the phone? If not, then the airlines must be complicit in this conspiracy as well, as they would have to have cooked the passenger manifests. Do you see how this becomes quite convoluted?

But I understand human nature. Thus, I know that if a person has an emotional vested interested in entertaining a fancy, nothing and nobody will be able to disabuse him of his ridiculous notions. But know this: if you subscribe to this folderol, you are most definitely, without a doubt, a sheeple. I hope your two brain cells get along.

lost of words, nothing to back them up.

One question Judge Smails, well actually 2. Have you done any research on the effectiveness of cellphones at different alititude levels in 2001? If you have then you would have realized that their effectiveness ranges from 8%(levels at which the plane begins to ascend to normal cruising altitude) to 0.006% (at normal cruising altitude). Check out the video Loose Change for that one or just do a Google search.

Second, again I say, you have obviously not done your own research. If you look at the links that we have suggested, they will direct you to articles that SHOWS that a little less than half of the accussed hijackers were found ALIVE days and weeks after September 11. http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html


It appears that your claims are the ones full of holes. You say that we have no evidence but we have backed up our claims with evidence that you can read and print and cry over and burn in your fireplace if you want. The fact of the matter is that our evidence is there and tangible, you sir have not backed your claims with any evidence. You have only spouted more talking points that we here every day on our Mass Media news stations. Please, we beg you, read our research. For the sake of your own intellect, all we ask is that you read our evidence and then debate us with a supply of your own FACTUAL evidence that backs up your claim.

LOOSE CHANGE, 2ND EDITION:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en
watch it with an open mind, and i'll turn on eurosport and watch golf with a ditto.

Okay, Dissent, in other words, you believe that all the every day folks who tell us they spoke to their loved ones are government pants. Fine, that tells me what kind of mentality you have. Did it every occur to you that you can find a site online that will espouse just about any position imaginable?

Anyway, since, as Ben Franklin said, "You cannot reason a man out of a position he has not reasoned himself into," I won't waste any more time with you. You are a sheeple.

you are so ignorant, its sad that people buy into the lies that Bush spews out of his wretched mouth. Why dont you just open your mind and examine the facts and see for yourself? I know its hard to think that the Bush administration would do such a thing, but their are many contradictions in the official account. Look at the Physics of it too, the collapse of the trade center towers would be the first in history to collapse from fire...and the fires in the towers were under control according to the firefighters who were fighting the blaze. Its physically impossible that the towers fell because of fire.. the 47 steel beams were made fireproof... the only thing that could have brought them down is a controlled demolition. And dont forget building number 7, which was hit by no plane, but supposidly collapsed due to fire caused by the falling debris of the towers, which is absurd. Building 5 was burned completely and still stood in its place. Theres no way it could have collapsed without a controlled demolition. You can even see the demolition squibs which are spaced evenly and appear several floors below the falling debris of the towers during collapse. examine the facts buddy. 911physics.co.nr, physics.911.net

Judge Smails, again I ask, please read our evidence. Aside from the fact that cellphones can't or can barely hold a signal on a plane at that time (Airlines has spent thousands of dollars installing units so that passengers can get signals on their cells since the attacks) have you read or listened to the transcripts of the conversations? On top of that, that is only 0.02% of the evidence that discounts the official story. Please read the info that we are trying to provide. I used to think like you sir, that there are no conspiracies and that everything was either left or right and that the worst a conspiracy could ever get is the Enron issue. I am not the sheeple anymore sir, you still are. You have not provided any evidence yet disputing our claims and you haven't read our evidence yet. Frankly, Mr. Franklin's quote applies to you sir, and if you want to get on the issue of Benjamin Franklin, please read his journals. You'll find that your understandings for what the main cause for the Revolutionary War was is also false. But that's a whole 'nother story and I just want to keep the aim focused on the current issue.

Oh and one more thing. I never said that the people who spoke to their loved ones were pants. That would be demeaning and unfair to them. They were victims of a loss and lie.

Dissent, you idiot, you don't have any idea who you're talking to. Islam is an evil force in this world, and I would say that even if 9/11 never happened. Moreover, I had information indicating that such an attack would take place PRIOR to 9/11, but I didn't take it very seriously.

Mr. Judge Smails, wow, you have impressed me. I thought you were a reasonable person that was blinded by his/her political persuasions and through years (don't know how old you are) of "common knowlegde" of how the world goes 'round. But it is obvious that you are a victim of your previous Ben Franklin quote with your more recent revealing quote that you are a racist and prejudice. I am sorry that you feel this way but it is obvious that nothing I say to you or ask of you will sway you otherwise. I will repeat again for you, please research our findings and facts, in hope that you will open your mind. I will also add that I am very sorry for your prejudice ways and I pray that you will open your heart as well.

Dissent,

I want to mention one more thing, and we'll see how reasonable you are. If it's true that it was impossible to get cellphone service aboard an aircraft in 2001 (which I don't believe, mind you), then those family members are LYING about having talked to their loved ones. Are you calling them liars?

So, if this is true, then they had to have been government plants, just as I originally stated. So, sorry, but your theory is bunk.

What about those phones on planes that work but cost like $10 a minute? I've seen em but never used em. I don't even know what you guys are talking about with government plants - you guys lost me awhile ago - I just noticed a post about cell phones on planes in 2001 by Smails. Maybe that's what the family members meant. Or maybe they're all hysterical liars.

Lets not waste our time on the people who are either ignorant to the facts or have other agendas separated from the truth. We know what has happened that 9/11 was an inside job. Forget the people that aren't willing to realise. Spread the word to others that will see the truth. This blog is probably some kind of stalling, aversionary tactic anyway.

EVERYONE PUT 9/11 PRESS GOR TRUTH DOCUMENTARY ON THEIR MYSPACE PAGES AND OTHER BLOGS. THEN FREQUENT THE MOST VISITED MUSIC ARTISTS ON MYSPACE AND DIRECT PEOPLE TO YOUR WEBSITE TO WATCH THIS NEW (postd on google 8th September 2006) GROUNDBREAKING DOCUMENTARY.

This is how better to spread the truth than bother with the people that can't see the woods for the trees in this blog like alex and others.

Judge Smails, So, what do you think? Are these folks crackpots or what? Their half-baked theories are full of holes. They firmly believe on one hand that the Bush administration has established a police state, complete with a Gestapo-like scheme of wiretaps and informants. In their dream world, Bush has authorized and overseen the construction of hundreds of concentration camps whose only purpose will be the indefinite incarceration of dissidents like themselves. The camps are fully staffed and operational. And yet, with a little over two years left in Bush's tenure of office, they and others like them are not being held incommunicado. They are out there blogging away their Bush hatred with impunity. In their world of almost comic fantasy, Bush and his minions are all-powerful. Dubya and the boys were able to willfully murder 3,000 of their fellow Americans, destroy billions in American property, and strike a crippling blow to the US economy, and get away with these heinous crimes completely. Yet they are unable to silence the kook conspiracy theorists and their network of bloggers. If they weren't such a small segment of American society, they would be dangerous. As it is, they are good for some dark entertinment. Hey kooks! What's the latest on chemtrails? How about a little more on Mumia? Didn't Bush dynamite the levees in New Orleans? Come on, kooks, you've got the floor! Show us what you've got!

Regarding those alleged cell phone calls. Anyone here listen to them? The one that Mark Bingham made to his mother for example. The recording is as follows, "Mother? This is Mark Bingham."

How many of you identify yourself to your 'MOM' with your first and last name?

Again, cell phones, in 2001 could not get a signal at the cruising altitude of 32,000 ft.

Does it matter to anyone that Larry Silverstein is on tape saying, "With the huge loss of life that day, we should just "pull it" (referring to WTC 7) and with "Pull" being the term they use when they decide to bring a building down with Controlled Demolition. He went on to say (on film), "So the decision was made to 'pull it' and we sat and watched the building come down"

Rumsfield is on tape correcting himself stating (referring to flight 93) "When we shot the plane down" (If anyone watched the 2 part farce of bullshit that aired, surprisingly they DID incorporate that order in the film. They just never showed it happen and they never DENIED it happened in the docu-drama fantasy that did air.

There are quite a few videos that civilians made that when slowed down frame by frame, you can see the "squibs" (pre planted explosives) going off many floors below while it's toppling. Falling buildings do just that- -FALL- to the left, right, north, south, you name it. They don't fall inside themselves. That is WHY they do controlled demolitions. To prevent it from falling over as gravity would have it do.

Bush is on film doing a photo shoot while all this is going on. He was made aware of the first plane hitting before entering the classroom to read to the children in Florida. It then shows one of his men coming into the room and whispering into his ear-notifying him that the second plane hit. He lightly nods and then JUST SITS THERE with this dumbfounded look on his face. For over 7 MINUTES. WHY was he not whisked out of the classroom by his security? Bush's agenda was well known for that morning. The 'terrorists' could have easily flew into that school. No, he was allowed to finish up his promotional shoot KNOWING that he was in NO DANGER because they KNEW EXACTLY where those planes were headed.
The Towers itself were shut down numerous times in the 3 weeks or so PRIOR to this happening. Not even the WTC security were allowed in the building. A great time to get those explosives set up. There is NO WAY Silverstein ordered WTC to be pulled and then had explosives planted that same day.

The REAL commercial planes that DID get used, were only filled to 25% capacity when they normally are filled to 75%. A few 'Politicals' received calls the night before NOT TO FLY TO NEW YORK the next day....WHY IS THAT??

In 2000 Bush stated they needed another Pearl Harbor like attack and mentioned his goal was to finish in Iraq what his father started years ago.

Also, watch the videos that show the 'alleged Bin Laden' taking claim. They do side by side photos of the REAL bin laden next to the look alike that was staking claim. The FBI also has him listed as being left handed and the video clearly shows him BOTH WRITING and EATING with his RIGHT hand.

All this is verifiable-on film and on black and white documents-all you have to do is search.

While doing that, might I suggest you also search Rupperts Documentation of the CIA? I will NOT get into WHY, just do it. Ruppert is an ex Head of narcotics and was for years. There is NO DENYING the proof that he has. He was even shot at when he first went public with it.

So, you now have an awful lot of "factual evidence" to search out for yourself. Since you are soooo sure we're all Looney then for that reason alone you need to watch. When done VIEWING these things YOURSELF, come back and then TRY to debunk this stuff. But do it intelligently, not by just AUTOMATICALLY ASSUMING the Government would never do such a thing or automatically believing what you're being told. ... ...I challenge you to follow through with this.

Chris Baldwin, Please give me your honest answer. When you started this blog with your rather innocuous story, did you have any idea that it would elicit this sort of vitriolic response from the left-wing kooks?

The're only "crackpots" and "kooks" because you just beleive what your told by your TV and never question the fact that the Govt. and the media might be lying to the people.
You saw JFK's head flap blow off onto the trunk of the car. The offical story remains that he was shot from the rear. Any man or woman with a highschool level of education in the feild of physics can tell you that, that is impossible and didnt happen. Think for yourself, stop following blind...........you know what, go play a round, dont worry about it.

I guess HTML isn' enabled? The above was a banner that states

"UNTHINKING RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY IS THE GREATEST ENEMY OF TRUTH"

- Albert Einstein


That........Says it all!! :)

Judge Smails, as I stated before, please read our evidence, and specifically, please read the transcripts. The family members are not lying about having talked to their loved ones, they are MISTAKEN, they were lied to (sick joke). You can easily copy someones voice using technology, and if you read the conversations, some of them sound VERY faked. They sound more like high school pranks. But you would know this if you read our evidence.... I am glad that you are questioning us, but with doing that you must research our evidence before you question or criticize us anymore.

Oh yea, you don't have to believe me about the cell phone thing.... do a google search on it for that time period. Or................... you can check out the links that we have provided above which catalogs and provides links to the evidence we have gathered. I really don't remember how many times I have asked of this. Just saying that you don't believe me does not refute our evidence. Just saying that your "common sense" does not compute does not refute our evidence. Please read, I can guarantee that you will VERY surprised (obviously).

Those theories may or may not be 'crackpot'. Google "Loose Change 2" and watch the video if you want some truth behind it.

LOL, oh, man, you folks are stupid. Now they synthesized the voices of these people's loved ones with computer technology and did such a good job that these hapless souls were none the wiser.

Listen, I'll tell you this: if Bush and company are capable of orchestrating such a complex conspiracy, one involving a plenitude of different facets, and for the first time in the history of man maintain the facade despite the involvement of a large number of indidivuals, then we have nothing to worry about. After all, with such a capable group of Machiavellian operators at the helm of our nation, the Islamists, Koreans and Chinese won't even be able to raise a welt on our collective fanny.

Alex, yes, these folks are the epitome of a crackpot. And it's interesting how these leftist nuts just can't make up their barely functioning minds. Bush is either so stupid that he can't chew gum and walk simultaneously, or he's a veritable Machiavelli who is a nonpareil conspirator. You know, one of these nuts quoted Einstein, stating, "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." In reality, though, a lack of respectable thinking is the greatest enemy of truth."

By the way, while Einstein was a genius in the field of physics, he was also a political moron, much like the these conspiracy theorists.

Judge Smails, I especially enjoy their contradiction of each other. One kook says that Bush was in cahoots with the Muslim suicide bommbers, Another says that there were no militant Muslims, only Bush's minions who carried out the 9-11 attacks. One says that NORAD was deliberately told to allow the planes to hit their targets, while another kook emphatically states, that no planes hit any targets, the WTC towers were IMPLODED. One crackpot questions how a hi-jacked plane could be allowed to penetrate the secure air space of the Pentagon and crash into it, while another says that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon at all, a missile strike did the damage. The last kook said that Bush's CIA synthesized the voices of passengers on Flight 93 to make their survivors think they were on the plane, but another quack theorist says that since no bodies were recovered from flt.93, no one was in fact on the plane and maybe there was no flt.93. They seem to agree on only one thing: Bush did it!

OMG!!!!! Hold that check you were about to send Alex Jones!

Read this!!!!

Of course, I realize that there is one simple line, which will forever keep conspiracies such as the 9/11 theories eternal:

"Oh yeah, well, the editor of Popular Mechanics is in on it, too."

--WKW

WkW, That was an excellent find. Of course, it won't mean a thing to the kooks. An article of faith to the conspiracy theorists is that buildings like the WTC towers could not be destroyed by fire. That is a false premise. It has been explained over and over again that the unique honey-comb structure of the towers wherein the floors and trusswork were integrated into the curtain walls, thereby making the exterior walls and the core walls interdependent upon each other was the cause of the collapse when some of the flanges grew soft from the heat, bent, and tore loose from their welds. Each lower floor could not support the additional weight resulting in the pancaking of the buildings. The sad fact is that while the towers were built to withstand hurricane force winds, they were susceptible to destruction in a catastrophic conflagration. The kooks also seem unable to grasp this fact: When a building is brought down by controlled demolition, i.e. implosion, the principal charges are set in the foundation. The weight of the building materials causes the spectacular collapse. There is no need for a fire to be raging on ten floors, three fourths of the way up the building. If the WTC towers had been imploded, no one would have made it out alive. As it was, the evacuation worked remarkably well since almost everyone below the fires made it out safely. Only those poor souls above the fires perished, along with the firemen who had no way of knowing what was in store for them. I know, I'm wasting my time trying to convince the kooks of anything.

No remarks from the kooks since Dissent about six hours ago. Looks like they've taken the order from Bob Dobbs, their alpha male, and moved elsewhere. Good. Back to somrthing about golf.

Alex,

The funniest assertion is the notion that no planes ever crashed into the WTC. Now, trust me, because I grew up in NYC, when I say that at least a few people live and work in the borough of Manhattan. Consequently, we probably have scores of thousands of witnesses who saw the aircraft being propelled into the towers. Of course, I'm sure these people are in on the conspiracy, too.

I'll tell you, I get the feeling that psychiatric institutions are providing their patients Internet access nowadays.

Alex, I am not sure if you will read this late a post but, I am sorry that I ever called YOU an idiot. After reading what some of these people wrote about 9-11 I realized that I was maligning you. There are some real idiots out there and luckily they do not seem to blog much about golf. (Ghet Reel may be an exception.) Despite your obvious bias and unbecoming dislike of Michelle, you are at least rational.

9/11 was a Mossad black op, assisted by traitors within the Bush Administration. Wake up! Don't let the epithet "anti-semite" scare you away from the truth!

To hell with Israel and long live the USA!

Remember the USS Liberty!

This has been an interesting but frightening experience looking through the entries in this post.
I find it hard to believe that people are this vitriolic on the subject of a conspiracy. Some of the "facts" that are thrown out accusing the govennment of involvement in the 911 attacks are pretty funny. This one refrenced by Max "http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662" talks about stuff in the sixties! I'm sure Bush was planning on having the towers built in the seventies so that when he was President in the nineties he could blow them up so his brother could collect insurance on building #7.
Oh My God! Wait A Second! That Actually Makes Sense!!!! Maybe you guys are right!!! Get a life and listen to what you are actually saying instead of mimicing sound bites of Bush haters. I am not a Bush lover, I am an Independant voter who listens to all points and then decides!

Florida Mike , Your apology is most graciously accepted.

Judge Smails, Although I've never spoken with anyone who actually saw the two jets hit the WTC towers, several folks that I know personally say that they heard the low-flying planes about ten seconds before impact, and loud crashes a few seconds after impact. I also know that several photographs were taken of the second plane approaching the building. I am not sure if any were taken of the first plane before impact. One kook says that there were sounds of explosive charges heard as the buildings were pancaking, These morons apparently don't know that when steel trusswork is snapped, it sounds like a 20mm round exploding. Those buildings came down in a virtual free fall. It is unlikely that anybody heard any sound that could be recognized. How about the moron that said the buildings should have toppled over instead of coming straight down? His idea of the law of gravity doesn't coincide with that of Sir Isaac Newton. What a bunch of yo-yo's!

Alex,

Human nature is amazing. When people have an emotional vested interest in believing something, they will rationalize way the truth regardless of how many mental contortions they will have to do. Another amazing thing is how many people this topic has brought out of the woodwork.

Ladies and gentleman this is the perfect example of people from all walks of life recruited by the goverment to ridicule the truth about 9/11. We know better than that though and well continue to search for ways to provide the truth for the public to know.

Uh-oh, Alex, I guess we haven't been subtle enough. Well, it doesn't matter. The general public will never believe that our uncle crosses every t and dots every i enough to run a disinformation campaign at TravelGolf.com.

Judge Smails, Now that we've been outed by the "X" man, we might as well admit it. How were you recruited? By the CIA? I was approached by Lord Rove himself. I'm going to retire after the Nov'08 elections. The Rove told me that my services won't be needed since the takeover will be complete by then, and all dissent will have been squelched. I've done quite well in my role as a conspirator/blogger. I've put all my checks in an interest bearing account which I will liquidate after the big GOP victory in '08. I will use the proceeds to purchase a beachfront hotel in the US Virgin Islands. Nothing too big, about 150 rooms and suites with a serpentine pool and a tiki bar. How about you, Judge? How are you going to spend your loot?

Alex,

I was recruited by the NSA. As far as remuneration is concerned, my understanding is that when all is said and done, I'll own one of the Virgin Islands. Although, there is the possibility that I'll have to share it with George when he seeks respite from the travails of the constant exercise of dictatorial power. But I should have free run of at least 40% of the island even during his brief hiatuses.

It may sound like a gratuitous measure of compensation, but remember that with all the oil profits that Bush, Inc. has been reaping, a billion here and a billion there is chump change. Besides, I've done a lot for the corporation. And I don't just mean Internet disinformation work, but also cooking books, vote manipulation and even, I'm not afraid to reveal, "black bag jobs." I like to get my hands dirty.

Judge Smails, Yes, it's been a good six-year run with the Bush cabal, but all good things must come to an end. My expertise with explosives which I demonstrated to the Rove as a mastermind in the implosion of the WTC towers got me an advisory position in the dynamiting of the levees in New Orleans. The success of that operaton earned me a sizable bonus which I will use as a dowm payment on a 64-foot Bertram for cruising in the Sir Francis Drake channel. It's a beauty; twin 350hp Caterpillar diesels and lots of brass and teak trim. And the best part is that it uses a whole lot of diesel fuel. The best decision I ever made in my life was pledging my loyalty to the Bush Family Evil Empire. It has been good to both uf us. My fondest hope is that in'09 we'll have "Big Dick" Cheney on top, Condi as Veep, and Lord Rove still pulling the strings.

Viva el Rove!

Bush TELLS of planted EXPLOSIVES INSIDE THE WTC!

For Immediate Release -- Office of the Press Secretary -- September 15, 2006 -- Press Conference of the President -- The Rose Garden -- President's Remarks -- 11:15 A.M. EDT

Blah blah ...we need to torture, because...

Bush: For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of planned attacks of buildings inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high -- a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

Bush HESITATES twice and gives away more than he is saying... he uses REVERSE LOGIC.. if the explosives are planted HIGH in the building.. there are LESS floors above where people can get trapped. i.e. If the OPERATIVES wanted to MINIMIZE the bloodbath they would WANT TO plant explosives HIGH in the building.

Also, WHY is this valuable information? Since nobody in the Bush admin did anything to prevent it, the VALUE of the information could only illustrate how negligent the Bush admin was. But this is a red herring anyway! The Bush junta is starting to COVER ITS ARSE ... My guess is that Bush's handlers have instructed Shrub to GIVE A CODED WARNING to the operatives that there are documents to be released which will EXPOSE and confirm the use of explosives... they are giving out the DIRECTIVE FOR SPIN:

* The "operatives" planted explosives... how ludicrous is that? Arabs planting tons of explosives! and oooh hooo.. SUDDENLY we discoverd that it was NOT JUST THE FUEL that brought the towers down and slaughtered 3000 New Yorkers... maybe they will also give medals to 911-truthers that HELPED to UNCOVER THIS EVIL PLOT.

Here are the references.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060915-2.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6083135,00.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6083135,00.html

JET FUEL caused 47 columns of steel to melt--------HaHaHaHaHaHa-but it's good to see the majority here have the intellegence to SEE THE TRUTH and only a minority are walking around with their heads up their asses as Bush's Puppets. (What utter ignorance)

The details BEFORE 9/11


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcUQg3DadaA

9/8 and 9/9.

Many of you will have heard about Scott Forbes. For others, this may be news.

Scott is the financial analyst who went public with testimony about a prolonged and planned 'power down' on the weekend before 9/11 - 9/8 and 9/9.

Before now, I had never heard his testimony - only read about it.

Some suspect that his story is incredible because there is no one to corroborate it. Nevertheless, he maintains it is true.

Listen to his audio testimony, which I find credible, though some skeptics give some valid points why it should be questioned. A transcript of an interview with him is available here.

On looking up the other source cited in this clip, I found the alleged quote right where they got it - from People magazine, filed in their online archives, dated September 12, 2001.

Ben Fountain, 42, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower.

How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on.

Evacuations and power downs are not the same - but both witnesses concur that unusual things related to security happened at the towers, in the weeks before 9/11. And of course, everyone has heard about the Marvin Bush coincidence.

Why am I rehashing old news? Thousands of web pages discuss these issues. Isn't talking about them over and over again redundant?

No - because every day new people are starting their journey, in search of the truth, and they need fresh material that keeps the evidence alive.

Second, I repeat the truth and unanswered questions to compete with repeated lies.

Somehow, some way, the truth must emerge - but, it's going to take the determination of millions of people to DEMAND IT and to NOT STOP until we get it.

If there's only one-in-a-million chance that we will ever learn the truth about 9/11, count me in as one of the millions who try.

Free-Falling Bodies..
Simple Physics Reveals The Big Lie

Collapse Theory Fails Reality Check

On September 11, 2001, most of the world watched in horror as the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center (WTC) collapsed. People did not have to be tuned in at the time in order to have seen it; it was repeated ad nauseam on television for days.

In June 2005, in an apparent response to an article by Morgan Reynolds, Robert Gates, the former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) stated ( cached), "The American people know what they saw with their own eyes on September 11, 2001. To suggest any kind of government conspiracy in the events of that day goes beyond the pale."

Well, first of all, the American people saw things not with their own eyes but on television, which is comprised nowadays of digital information, which can be manipulated by computers. So, right off the top, Gates' premise is flawed. And while the towers are gone, people have, both with their own eyes and on TV, seen magic performed before; eyes can be deceived. So let's just examine his other premise: whether or not it is true that people know what they saw.

(The following must be said before we can get to the physics.)

The government and the media told us what we saw. The government told us that we had witnessed a "gravitational" collapse; what is now referred to as a "pancake collapse". According to the government's, and PBS's, and Popular Mechanics', and Scientific American's theory, airplane crashes and subsequent kerosene (like lamp oil; jet fuel is NOT exotic) fires heated steel to the point where it was weakened, which is already very difficult to believe, nevermind repeat in an experiment. According to their "pancake theory", this imagined purported (all the evidence was subsequently illegally destroyed) weakening supposedly caused part of the tower to collapse downward onto the rest of the tower, which, we've been repeatedly told, somehow resulted in a chain reaction of lower floors, sequentially, one at a time, yielding to the floors falling from above.

There are at least 2 problems with that theory; it does not fit the observed facts: It cannot account for either the total failure of the immense core columns, nor the too-rapid-to-blame-it-all-on-gravity collapse times. This article focuses on the latter of these two mentioned discrepancies.

The scientists who've concocted this "pancake theory" made a fatal error: they forgot to check their work! Which is an easy thing to do, even without any physical evidence to forensically examine. Anyone, at any time, can check the work of the scientists -- that incredible pancake theory of theirs -- using simple, high-school physics!

And that's what we're about to do here. We're going to check the work -- something every grade-schooler is taught to do -- of those "scientists".

We will use a simple, unassailable, incontrovertible conservation-of-energy analysis to perform a simple, basic reality check that establishes, once and for all, that the U.S. government, PBS, Popular Mechanics, and Scientific American have misrepresented the true nature of the events of 9/11.

How Gravity Acts

Sir Isaac Newton noticed, centuries ago, that apples fell (down! never up...) from trees. Lots of others, before him, had also noticed this, but none had ever devised a theory of gravity from the observation. Over the years, mankind has learned that the force of gravity comes from an acceleration of known constant magnitude, depending only upon mass and separation. (That doesn't mean we know HOW it works, or WHY, but we have managed to be able to predict its effects with a high degree of precision and an even higher degree of certainty -- gravity has always had the same, predictable, effect.)

Of course, people didn't figure this stuff out immediately. According to legend, Galileo Galilei used the leaning tower of Pisa to demonstrate that a large ball and a small one (of lesser mass) fell (accelerated) at the same rate. Prior to Galileo, people had just assumed that heavier objects fell faster (much the way mankind had long assumed that the Earth was flat!).

So while an object of greater mass will exert more force upon anything which is supporting it against gravity's pull (ie, it's heavier), it does not experience any greater acceleration when gravity's pull is not opposed (ie, when it's falling). Earth's gravity can only accelerate objects downward at one known, constant, maximum rate (1 g). Heavier objects are not accelerated any quicker than are lighter objects, as Galileo demonstrated centuries ago.


The Simplest Case

From experimentation, it has been discovered that, near the surface of the Earth, Earth's gravity will produce a downward acceleration of 32 feet per second per second.

What that means is that an object, after falling one second, will be falling at 32 ft/sec.

After the 2nd second, it will be falling at 64 ft/sec.

After the 3rd second, it will be falling at 96 ft/sec.

And so on.

Further, since gravity's acceleration is constant, and it's falling at 32 ft/sec after one second has elapsed, we know that it has averaged 16 ft/sec for the entire distance, which, after one second, is 16 feet.

As you might imagine, after quite a few such thought experiments, some simple free-fall equations have been derived which can be used to harness this knowledge via numbers and arithmetic:

Velocity = Gravity x Time

and

Distance = 1/2 x Gravity x Time(squared)

So if we want to know how far the object has free-fallen after 3 seconds:

Distance = 1/2 x 32 x 9 = 144 feet

So after 3 seconds, in Earth's gravity, an object will have fallen 144 feet and will be falling at 96 ft/sec.

Checking Our Work

OK, we've just solved a simple physics problem! Now let's check our work, using conservation of energy.

We know that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It merely changes forms. If we take the potential (chemical) energy in a barrel of oil and burn it, we get heat energy. When we take refined oil and burn it in our car's engine, we get kinetic (ie, motion) energy (plus some heat; an engine's not 100% efficient). When we use our car's brakes to bleed off some of that kinetic energy (ie, slow down), the energy is converted into heat (the brakes get HOT).

In the case of the free-falling body, the two kinds of energy we are concerned with are kinetic energy and potential energy. Examples of potential (gravitational) energy are the water stored way up high in a water tower, or a boulder perched atop a hill. If whatever's holding them up there is removed, they will come down, under the influence of gravity's pull.

So, as an object falls, it gives up potential energy for kinetic energy.

It turns out that the equation for potential energy is as follows:

Potential Energy = Mass x Gravity x Height

It turns out that the equation for kinetic energy is as follows:

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 x Mass x Velocity(squared)

So let's just say, for the sake of simplicity, that our falling object has a mass of 1. (Remember, the object's mass will affect its energy, and its momentum, but not its rate of free-fall.)

The potential energy given up by falling 3 seconds (144 ft) is 1 x 32 x 144 = 4608

The kinetic energy gained after falling 3 secs is 1/2 x 1 x 96(squared) = 1/2 x 9216 = 4608

So, all of the available potential energy was converted to kinetic energy. Seeing that energy was, in fact, conserved is how we know that the answer in The Simplest Case, above, was correct. We've checked our work, using an independent analysis, based upon the sound principle of conservation of energy. Now, and only now, we can be certain that our answer was correct.


[based upon a graphic at stopthelie.com]
If dropped at the same time,
which would reach the ground first?


One Little Complicationn

Air resistance.

The free-fall equations reflect a perfect, frictionless world. They perfectly predict the behavior of falling bodies in a vacuum. In fact, some of you may have seen a science class demonstration in which the air is pumped out of a tube and then a feather will fall, in that vacuum, as fast as will a solid metal ball.

That's how parachutes work: much of the falling object's potential energy gets expended doing the work of pushing a lot of air out of the way in order for the object to fall. As a result, not all of the potential gravitational energy can go towards accelerating the object downward at gravity's maximal rate of 32 ft/sec/sec.

In other words, only when there is zero resistance can any falling object's potential energy be completely converted into kinetic energy. Anything which interferes with any falling object's downward acceleration will cause its acceleration to be reduced from the maximum gravitational acceleration of 32 feet per second per second, as some of gravity's potential energy is consumed doing work overcoming resistance.

That's why you may have heard the term "terminal velocity". The free-fall equations predict that a falling object's velocity will continue to increase, without limit. But in air, once a falling object reaches a certain speed, it's propensity to fall will be matched by air's resistance to the fall. At that point the object will continue to fall, but its speed will no longer increase over time.


A Quick Recap

Earth's gravity causes objects to fall. They fall according to precise, well-known equations. The equations assume no (air) resistance. Any resistance at all will cause the object to fall less rapidly than it would have without that resistance.

It is that last sentence which bears repeating.

There is a maximum possible rate at which objects fall, and if any of gravity's potential energy is consumed doing anything other than accelerate the object downward -- even just having to push air out of the way -- there will be less energy available to accelerate the object downward, and so that object's downward acceleration will be diminished.

And if an object's downward acceleration is diminished, it will be going slower along the way, and thus it will take longer to fall a given distance.
Free-falling from WTC heights

The towers were 1350 and 1360 feet tall. So let's start by using our trusty free-fall equation to see how long it should take an object to free-fall from the towers' former height.

Distance = 1/2 x Gravity x Time(squared)

or

Time(squared) = (2 x Distance) / Gravity

Time(squared) = 2710 / 32 = 84.7

Time = 9.2

So our equation tells us that it will take 9.2 seconds to free-fall to the ground from the towers' former height.

Using our simpler equation, V = GT, we can see that at 9.2 seconds, in order to reach the ground in 9.2 seconds, the free-falling object's velocity must be about 295 ft/sec, which is just over 200 mph.

But that can only occur in a vacuum.

Since the WTC was at sea level, in Earth's atmosphere, you might be able to imagine how much air resistance that represents. (Think about putting your arm out the window of a car moving half that fast!) Most free-falling objects would reach their terminal velocity long before they reached 200 mph. For example, the commonly-accepted terminal velocity of a free-falling human is around 120 mph. The terminal velocity of a free-falling cat is around 60 mph. ( source)

Therefore, air resistance alone will make it take longer than 10 seconds for gravity to pull an object to the ground from the towers' former height.


Observations from 9/11

On page 305 of the 9/11 Commission Report, we are told, in the government's "complete and final report" of 9/11, that the South Tower collapsed in 10 seconds. (That's the government's official number. Videos confirm that it fell unnaturally, if not precisely that, fast. See for yourself: QT Real)

But as we've just determined, that's free-fall time. That's close to the free-fall time in a vacuum, and an exceptionally rapid free-fall time through air.

But the "collapse" proceeded "through" the lower floors of the tower. Those undamaged floors below the impact zone would have offered resistance that is thousands of times greater than air. Recall that those lower floors had successfully supported the mass of the tower for 30 years.

Air can't do that.

Can anyone possibly imagine the undamaged lower floors getting out of the way of the upper floors as gracefully and relatively frictionlessly as air would? Can anyone possibly imagine the undamaged lower floors slowing the fall of the upper floors less than would, say, a parachute?

It is beyond the scope of the simple, but uncontested, physics in this presentation to tell you how long the collapse should have taken. Would it have taken minutes? Hours? Days? Forever?

Perhaps. But what is certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt, is that the towers could not have collapsed gravitationally, through intact lower floors, as rapidly as was observed on 9/11.

Not even close!

Because, as you may recall, not only was much energy expended in causing the observed massive high-speed sideways ejections, but virtually all the glass and concrete was "pulverized" -- actually " dissociated" is a much better word. (Nevermind what happened to all the supporting steel core columns...!!!) And the energy requirements to do anything even remotely like that rival the total amount of potential energy that the entire tower had to give. ( source) So while gravity is nearly strong enough to cause some things to fall that far, through air, in the observed interval, and while gravity is probably not strong enough to have so thoroughly disintegrated the towers under their own weight, gravity is certainly not strong enough to have done both at once.


Conclusions

In order for the tower to have collapsed "gravitationally", as we've been told over and over again, in the observed duration, one or more of the following zany-sounding conditions must have been met:

* The undamaged floors below the impact zone offered zero resistance to the collapse
* The glass and concrete spontaneously disintegrated without any expenditure of energy
* On 9/11, gravity was much stronger than gravity
* On 9/11, energy was not conserved

However, none of these physics-violating conditions can be accounted for by the official government conspiracy theory of 9/11, nor by any of the subsequent analyses designed to prop up the official theory of 9/11.

Bottom line: the government/PBS/PM/SA explanation for the WTC collapses fails the most basic conservation-of-energy reality check. Therefore the government/PBS/PM/SA theory does not fit the observed facts; the notion of a "pancake collapse" cannot account for what happened. The "pancake collapse theory" explanation is impossible, and thus absurd.

It is utterly impossible for a "gravitational collapse" to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times. This fact debunks the preposterous contention that the observed WTC collapses can be blamed solely upon damages resulting from aerial assaults.

So, to the extent that people accept the ridiculous "pancake collapse" explanation, Gates' other premise, that people know what they saw, is also incorrect. It is left to the reader to decide if his conclusion, which was based upon two incorrect presumptions, is also flawed.

The purported "gravitational" collapse ( video) of World Trade Center building 7, which was hit by zero aircraft, and which also vertically collapsed in within a second of free-fall-time-in-a-vacuum later that same day, similarly fails this same conservation-of-energy analysis.

The explanation for how and why so many highly-accredited and credentialed people all so miserably failed to check the "pancake collapse" theory, by giving it this basic reality check, is beyond the scope of this simple physics discussion.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211.web.stuff/Kuhns/terminal_velocity.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/dustvolume/volumev3.html

http://wtc7.net/videos.html

The kook crackpots seem to have the opinion that the longer and more confusing their crazy theories are, the more believable they become.

that get easily confused according to the comment made above. Nothing confusing about it, unless you can't READ and click links to verify it's legitimacy.

I only ones I feel sorry for, are the children and grandchildren of these assholes that have their heads not only in their own asses but in Dubya's ass as well. I guess leaving their next generation to living in a dictatorship with NO rights or freedoms and allowing martial law to take over.

Talk about crackpots. The only kooks are the ones dumb enough to believe the consipracy theory our government "terrorists" try to put over on you. Good thing Most Americans have awakened. Justice will Prevail in the end. Justice for the FAMILIES of the Victims of this UnGodly Cover up and to ALL the American Citizens that foolishly believed that our Government would actually Protect our Country.

9/11 Toxic Dust Whistleblower Raided By SWAT Team

Ground zero hero Major Mike McCormack says he was deliberately targeted for helping release documents on EPA government cover-up, says 75% of police, firemen believe 9/11 cover-up
Paul Joseph Watson/ | September 15 2006

A 9/11 toxic dust whistleblower, a ground zero hero and one of the individuals influential in the release of documents proving a government cover-up that deliberately put police, firemen and rescue personel at risk, has been raided by a New York SWAT team - who ransacked his home for three hours after he was arrested.
Major Mike McCormack is a hospital technician and civil air patrol pilot who worked the ground zero site for eight days after the collapse of the twin towers. He is one of the real heroes of 9/11 and was the man who found the American flag that was later displayed as a token of unity atop the rubble.
Within hours McCormack was coughing up black mucus and within days he was coughing up blood as the toxic dust that was deliberately covered up by the EPA poisoned his lungs along with all the other rescue workers, police and firemen who were being used in photo ops by Bush and his cronies while their very livelihoods were being endangered by a government cover-up.
McCormack now suffers from an extreme respiratory sensitivity, has a 5-millimeter metal nodule in one lung and has been forced to give up his passion of scuba diving.
McCormack is part of an organization lobbying Congress to demand a response from the federal government to the toxic dust cover-up and just compensation for the heroes of 9/11 who were deserted by their own government while the Bush administration had the audacity to use the attacks to fulfil a pre-determined political agenda by exploiting the unity created by the events of that day.
McCormack now describes himself as "permanently ill" as a result of the "death sentence" that was imposed on him via the toxic dust cover-up and sees it as only a matter of time before he "takes the dirt nap," just as some of his friends who worked with him at ground zero have already done.
McCormack currently occupies a high position of employment in security with the federal government which at the moment he prefers not to divulge. He has many friends who were affected by the ground zero toxic dust, including New York City police and state troopers.
McCormack was part of the anniversary ceremonies on September 11 2006 and provided many hand-shaking photo-ops for numerous politicians, before returning to his family home in Pennsylvania that night. McCormack returned to his New York home the next morning in preparation to visit ground zero once again.
On the morning of September 12, McCormack's tenant opened the door to see half a dozen detectives outside who began asking questions and demanding to search the building. The detectives didn't have a warrant and needed McCormack's signature to conduct the search.
Having nothing to hide and wanting to assist the police, McCormack signed the paper and the detectives entered the house.
"Three minutes later as I'm walking out of my office with one of the detectives, I have a federal SWAT team that comes in....men in black and all of a sudden they have 9 millimeter handguns and MP5 machine guns aimed at my head," McCormack told the Alex Jones Show.
McCormack was ordered to leave the building as the 15-strong Darth Vader like SWAT team members verbally abused him and commenced ransacking his house for up to three hours "like a cyclone."
The reason for the raid was said to be as a result of a complaint that the odor of chemicals was smelled coming from the house. McCormack was essentially being treated as a potential terrorist.
McCormack had mistakenly left a legally owned unloaded gun in the trunk of his car before traveling back from Pennsylvania. Thinking that the 48 hour out of state law applied he planned to return the gun to Pennsylvania the next day. Not wanting to take the gun down to ground zero he felt the safest place to put it would be the house. The gun was subsequently discovered by the SWAT team. Through a selectively enforced loophole McCormack is now being charged with illegal possession of a weapon because he took the gun out of state.
"The detective who arrested me told me that he had actually seen my photo in New York Newsday that past Thursday - he knew that I was a ground zero hero and the bottom line is finding that weapon unloaded - running the numbers - knowing the gun was legal if he was a decent human being he would have said 'give me 24 hours I will mail it to your house in Pennsylvania where it's legal - you have your permit'," said McCormack.
During the course of the raid, the SWAT team members and detectives interrogated McCormack on his possession of gas masks and biochemical protection suits, despite the fact that these are standard inventory for an individual in McCormack's line of work and despite diplomas hanging on his wall describing government training in biochemical casualty programs.
The SWAT team also accused McCormack of making chemicals in his barbeque grill.
McCormack's tenant, who questioned the officials' behavior during the raid, was "taken to federal jail and nobody has heard from him since," according to McCormack.
McCormack believes the set-up and the raid are a direct reaction to his activism in helping get the EPA documents that proved the toxic dust cover-up released.
"I said shame on all of them....yesterday I was recognized as a national hero....they chose to humiliate me....they basically flushed my life down the toilet for no reason whatsoever," said McCormack - who is now shunned by his neighbors and treated as a dangerous criminal, with the local authorities going to the lengths of moving the location of an elementary school bus stop which was outside of his house.
Another reason for the raid may have been McCormack's increasing awareness of aspects of the 9/11 official story that don't add up. McCormack described the comments of individuals who were at ground zero when President Bush visited in the days after the attack.
"Numerous firemen were telling me that they heard numerous secondary explosions all over the building - these guys are seasoned firefighting professionals - a lot of them have military backgrounds and they're not stupid."
"Everybody on the planet knew that not only was the World Trade Center hit - it was totally wiped out," said McCormack.
McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."
McCormack said that friends of his had also personally been involved in the construction of FEMA internment camps in Washington DC and New York. BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast was recently charged with "threatening infrastructure" after videotaping a Katrina victims camp in Louisiana and Exxon Mobil's Baton Rouge refinery - the charge has now thankfully been dropped .
McCormack said the government had "abandoned" the heroes of 9/11 and that "when Alex tells you this is Nazi Germany, you best believe it," describing the events as "part of the new world order."
Mike McCormack appreciates any help and legal support as he fights the charge against him. His home number is 631-886-1622.
Click here to listen to Mike McCormack's interview on The Alex Jones Show.
*The image at the top of this article is illustrative only and does not portray the individuals involved in the events described in the story.
COMMENT ON THIS ARTICLE

You can listen to the interview at Prison Planet.com

Simple minded, What's your take on the levees in New Orleans? Did Dubya have them dynamited? Does he have a machine that caused Katrina? Anything else we should know?

First, let me start by saying you have every right to your 'opinion' as do I. I have a hard time understanding your need to come in and start belittling the ones here that have a 'different' opinion or belief than you do. Who says you HAVE to conform? Who says THEY have to conform? Why can't you respect the fact that cover up's DO happen and IF someone feels something is 'off' or 'not right' what makes you think that your beliefs are superior and resort to calling people kooks, stupid, etc?

As far as the levees go. As of today, I'd never given it much thought. I accepted what I've seen and heard. I've seen NOTHING that says otherwise.....yet. What that means, is I'd not be so close minded to think that it 'couldn't' happen. I'd be open to see what kind of evidence there was to prove it was done deliberately-I actually believed as you still do regarding 9/11 up until about 18 mos ago. Yes, I thought the buildings looked like they were controlled when they fell, but never persued it further-until I started seeing documments that once were classified and now declassified, hearing witness accounts from the firefighters, watching the tapes over and over in slowed down frame by frame motion and there is no way to explain the squibs happening. Buildings dont' fall inside themselves normally, YES that has been stated by Experts that so controlled demolitions. I could have just as easily said...Yeah, right..what a kook, idiot, etc. But there is too much out there to be ignored.

Although I'm not sure why I'm bothering as you have been nothing but nasty from post one with the name calling etc., but I happen to be married to a republican that voted FOR Bush. I was neither Repub. or Dem. Up until now. I'm still neither as the corruption is happening under the democratic ruling as well. Its been going on for years. Money, Power and Drugs is what it's all about. That is based on what I've watched and read regarding experts, etc.

No, you don't have to conform to MY way of thinking, but at least show some respect. The firefighters are 100% behind the TruthFor911 people. So are the wives, husbands and parents that were left behind as well. Cops are questioning the story the government has tried so hard to make us believe.

If you are soooo sure that your beliefs are the right ones, then why not sit back and watch us 'kooks' be proved wrong rather than to sit and call names. Why so much nastiness and hateful name calling?

All I can do is TRY to make people aware by passing on info., interviews, videos, etc that put the big question mark in front of me. I cannot change the way someone thinks, believes, etc. I can only hope to get ONE more mind open enough to take the time to say, "What can looking at this evidence hurt?" But also keep an open mind when doing so.

I will apologize now for any typo's I may have missed. The hubby went to point to my monitor last night and knocked over my glass of diet pepsi--its still working, but some of the keys are sticking badly. Think what you want regarding what I believe, but I'm NOT stupid, a kook, a crackpot nor am I dumb. I don't believe what I'm told without researching it myself and coming to my own conclusion. My IQ is 136 so I'm not a genius either. I'm just an ordinary American Citizen that is afraid of what our Government is starting to turn our Country into and want better for my Children and Grandchildren when I'm gone. All the freedoms and liberties the soldiers before us fought to get for us are now being taken away. One by one. I will do whatever I can or have to do to stand up against that happening. It doesn't mean YOU have to do the same.

No, as of today I don't think the levees were blown, I feel they gave in to a nasty storm that mother nature dumped on us. BUT...should questions ALONG with evidence of proof start being presented, I could easily change my opinion of that but it will be due to what *I* discover by researching the materials myself.

Keeps an Open Mind,

I label people like you nuts because you are nuts. Moreover, you're ill-educated nuts. There's a good reason why the buildings fell as they did, and it has nothing to do with controlled demolition. However, I'm quite sure any explanation would fall on deaf -- and dumb -- ears.

Alex,

I want to congratulate you on a magnificent job in New Orleans. I was especially impressed at how, with the artful employment of controlled demolition, you were able to completely ravage the black areas of the city while leaving the French Quarter unscathed. Moreover, I know that while a few desperate voices may air their suspicions, they will find evidence as elusive as an honest vote count. With the advanced technology your team has at its disposal, nary a smidgeon of residue will be found. And I would like to take this opportunity to say, and I think I speak for many of the initiated, that it's men such as you who have made the Corporation the profitable, powerful enterprise it is today.

By the way, I also must say that I have to echo your sentiment: the decision to hitch my wagon to the Bush Syndicate's star was among the best I have ever made. In fact, I never thought that I would live to see the day when the operators in Reagan, Inc. would be made to look like neophytes, but that day has arrived. While a good profit could be realized by those of us in Reagan's inner circle, I always felt that the Gipper was too encumbered by principle and ideological imperatives. Bush, on the other hand, rightly understands that every moment that one does not maximize profits is a moment wasted. He -- like the Wiemen, I might add -- realizes that one's value is only to be measured by the yardstick of material gain and, oh, that gain has been prodigious! Mine eyes have seen the glory!

That is YOUR opinion Judge. And I was ill-educated when I believed our Government would protect us. You are only ill-educated when you REFUSE to see facts. Bush is the low man on this totem pole of decieit and when it starts to fall apart, he will be their patsie.

I can only say that in time it will all come out and I'm not going to be the one on the "dumb" end.

Your way of thinking regarding the Bush Administration is scary at best. An honest Politition? That borders on an oxymoron if one ever did.. . then again, you're a judge. You'd know all about pay offs and such.

Good luck to you Judge, you're going to need it. I tried to respond to Alex's question with the utmost respect. I do know though, that the ones that follow blindly tend to be the ones lacking any sense of respect for others and are the most ill-educated.(and usually pretty full of themselves) The only "deaf ears" are the ears that refuse to HEAR whats being said and to see what is put right in front of them.

I put verifiable proof of everything when I made an accusation. All the nay-sayers did was come on, call names, and show THEIR lack of intelligence. Follow Blindly Kind Sir. In the end, you have only yourself to blame.

With that, my communication with you is done. I won't stoop down to your level.
To be honest, I don't think I could get that low if I tried.

Judge Smails, Open Mind has confessed to being a woman. I think Something back there about a husband. Rumor around the compounddd has it that Lord Rove is planning a caper to end all capers with the Nov. elections. It should put the conspiracy kooks in a tizzy. They'' blow their minds trying to figure out how he did it. I tell you, the Rove is a genius!

Please check out the link above and never
shut up about 911 until the Bush admin.
is shown for what they really are.
Treason & murders.
Thanks for the Canadian to keep it alive.

Truth, If you believe all that unsubtantiated rubbish, you need a lot of help and a lot of sympathy. I can give you neither.

The Truth is that if you believe that folderol, you know nothing of Truth. And, yes, this is Judge Smails.

BLIND FAITH IN BAD LEADERSHIP IS NOT PATRIOTISM

IF YOU'RE NOT OUTRAGED, YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION

IF YOU SUPPORTED BUSH, A YELLOW RIBBON WON'T MAKE UP FOR IT

POVERTY, HEALTH CARE & HOMELESSNESS ARE MORAL ISSUES

OF COURSE IT HURTS. YOU'RE GETTING SCREWED BY AN ELEPHANT

BUSH LIED, AND YOU KNOW IT

RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM: A THREAT ABROAD, A THREAT AT HOME


WHEN JESUS SAID LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, I THINK HE MEANT DON'T KILL THEM

BUSH SPENT YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY ON HIS WAR

PRO AMERICA, ANTI BUSH

WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB?

IF YOU SUPPORT BUSH'S WAR, WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? SHUT UP AND SHIP OUT

FEEL SAFER NOW?

I'D RATHER HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO SCREWED HIS INTERN THAN ONE WHO SCREWED HIS COUNTRY

JESUS WAS A SOCIAL ACTIVIST -- THAT IS A LIBERAL

MY VALUES? FREE SPEECH. EQUALITY. LIBERTY. EDUCATION. TOLERANCE.

IS IT 2008 YET?

DISSENT IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF PATRIOTISM -- Thomas Jefferson

DON'T BLAME ME. I VOTED AGAINST BUSH -- TWICE!

ANNOY A CONSERVATIVE THINK FOR YOURSELF

VISUALIZE IMPEACHMENT

HEY BUSH! WHERE'S BIN LADEN?

CORPORATE MEDIA = MASS MIND CONTROL

STOP MAD COWBOY DISEASE

GEORGE W. BUSH: MAKING TERRORISTS FASTER THAN HE CAN KILL THEM

KEEP YOUR THEOCRACY OFF MY DEMOCRACY

DEMOCRATS ARE SEXY. WHOEVER HEARD OF A GOOD PIECE OF ELEPHANT?

ASPIRING CANADIAN

CORPORATE MEDIA: WEAPONS OF MASS DECEPTION

DON'T CONFUSE DYING FOR OIL WITH FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM

STEM CELL RESEARCH IS PRO LIFE

HATE, GREED, IGNORANCE: WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

HONOR OUR TROOPS; DEMAND THE TRUTH

REBUILD IRAQ? WHY NOT SPEND 87 BILLION ON AMERICA?

FACT: BUSH OIL1999 - $19 BARREL 2006 - $70 BARREL

THE LAST TIME RELIGION CONTROLLED POLITICS, PEOPLE GOT BURNED AT THE STAKE

I'LL GIVE UP MY CHOICE WHEN JOHN ROBERTS GETS PREGNANT

HOW ON EARTH CAN 59,411,287 PEOPLE BE SO DUMB?

Hey, Misinformed, You forgot a few kook articles of faith. How about "Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans?" "The chemtrails in the sky aren't from jet planes, they're there to spread a mind-controlling gas?" "600 concentration camps have been built by Bush and are fully-staffed and operational?" Come on, man, get with it!

You're starting to wake up, but if you think BUSH is responsible you're far less intelligent than you originally presented yourself to be.(Didn't think that was possible-so Congrats)

Bush HAS admitted to the camps being built so you're really outta the loop on that one. :(

View the video linked above (dated September 14, 2006) then come back and give me YOUR version of it. I can't wait to hear how you try to twist this one! I'll check back in a day or two.

Hope your weekend was a good one :)

Misinformed,

My, I don't think I've ever seen so many platitudes in one post before. You'd make an excellent parrot.

Polly wanna crack-up?

It's 'Ms.' Informed to you Judge, and it's called 'humor'-something you sorely lack. Look it up then give it a try.

FYI-Good thing you're a judge. You'd make a LOUSY attorney. You have NO debating skills what so ever. It's fine to disagree, learn how to do so respectfully!

A parrot? Sure, I can handle that. Better than being a sheeple that sits blindly ACCEPTING everything you're told when anyone with an iota of common sense can see the holes.

Malinformed, Apparently you haven't followed this blog for very long. On 8/15, one of your fellow kooks outed Judge Smails and me as agents of the Bush administration. It is not yet clear how xavier acquired this highly sensitive information, but it is now moot. At the headquarters of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, to be referred to hereafter as the VRWC, our orders have been spelled out. The Judge and I are to take the offensive against all left wing kooks. Dubya didn't build these camps for nothing. You are now on notice that you are under surveillance 24/7. Watch out for a 2:00Am rap at your door.

Well, you didn't disappoint. All you've done here is run your mouth with nothing to back your arrogant stupidty with. This is my final response.

Correction-this blog wasn't up on 8/15 Mr "I know ALL". Go ahead, blame it on a typo-you aren't the type that can admit when they're wrong. LMAO!!

Watch the news. It's starting to come out already Mr NonInformed Alex.

I find golf dull and boring (as it turns out I see that spills over onto the actual golfers as well.)

Tell ya what, reply in an email and I'll gladly send you my address Alex. It will make your surveillance and 2am visit much simpler for you. :) I don't think you will find much with your head so far up your ass.

Until you can back your idiotic statements with some actual facts, I have better things to do with my time.
Knowledge is Power. Try putting down your clubs and get informed.

Oh, and enjoy the rest of the evening :)

Misinformed,

I find you dull and boring. Banal stupidity doesn't score any points in the Alan Cup.

Misinformed, You needn't give us your address, we already have it. Yesterday at Camp X-22, we processed several recalcitrants who insisted on using profanity and vulgarities in reply to interrogation. They will begin their internment with 30 days in isolation, not a pleasant way to begin their stay. It is important to start off on the right footing when you are a guest of the VRWC.

Ok Alex, I'll be waiting. Although I doubt you'll actually make it to my door.

I live in the Golf Capitol of the World (aww gee, you already know that now dontcha'?)-- Need a hint? It's in the Southeast. :)

Good Luck to ya Alex (since you're so willing to accept what you're TOLD to believe, you're gonna need all the luck you can get).

It's "almost" been fun.

~Peace

Misinformed, Your flippant attitude would suggest that you are skeptical of the existence of the concentration camps and the willingness of Lord Rove and President Bush to use these camps as a surefire method of squelching liberal dissent. If you read and digest all the information available on kook web sites, you'll find that the camps are built and fully staffed. Several have already begun to accept internees. I perused your dossier yesterday. You have been tentatively assigned to Camp B-37 in central South Dakota. You are not scheduled for processing until three months after the November elections. Remember, be as agreeable as possible when you are taken into custody. The Rove has severe methods of dealing with recalcitrants. To resist is futile; you will be programmed and assimilated.

Awww, you're going to miss me not being around, aren't you? I'd said my goodbye's above and you could have easily left it at that.

BUT, there is one thing I can do and that's admit when I'm wrong.

You DO have a sense of humor!! :)

FWIW-I'm not skeptical at all regarding the camps. I've seen videos, know where they are located, and have Bush on video finally own up to having them, although lying about their real use.

To make my scheduling easier, 3 mos after the elections will be February. I'll be leaving on 1/31/07 and will be in the UK until approx.2/16/07. From there I'll be in Amsterdam for approx a week then will wrap up in France from about the 25th of Feb till 3/10. Does that help? That is, of course, unless the Good Lord changes his plan. I'm going by the 6 mos. to a year I've been told I have so I'm getting my dream vacation (minus making it to Australia.)

Oh, and one last thing. Just WHEN does the U.S. Capitol move from DC to the state of Nebraska?? My understanding is after 2015 but would love to get an approx. if not exact year this happens since I won't be aroud to witness it for myself.

Misinformed, I'd get a few more opinions if I were you. I don't think it's possible to die from being stupid.

Touche' Alex.

That would be a great comeback for someone that wasn't really ill.
Since this is my THIRD round with it, I made the decision to no longer receive treatment and live what's left doing things that need to get done, things that make ME happy.

I can look myself in the mirror and feel good about myself. I have no trouble sleeping at night.

I've CHOSEN to try to make others aware of what is happening. I can't reach everyone, I know that. But I walk away knowing I tried.

I hope you get to live a long long life in this dictatorship that's been happening for awhile now and that you aren't a victim of this new Police State. Martial Law is no way for an American to have to live. I may not be around, but my kids and 2 grandkids (so far) WILL BE directly involved in this injustice due to money hungry corrupt officials. That is what keeps me motivated.
(put the golf clubs away for ONE day and use it to look up these bills and laws that have been being signed -some in secrecy (with Canada & Mexico) and some right before our eyes. Research the Northwood Operation, Pearl Harbor, Prescott Bush's aide to Hitler.

I may not still be of this earth when the truth regarding it ALL finally does come out but you can bet your ass I'll be here in whatever form that may be-and no, I won't be pointing and laughing at you for being so ignorant all these years. I will be there with HOPE that you've LEARNED and are aware now and will do whatever you can to make things right.

This is my last time visiting this page. I won't be returning so there is no point in a response.

I wish each and everyone here well and 'Truthseekers'- -Don't ever back down from what you believe and know is right in your heart. And remember-Karma has a way of finding the right person. :)

Peace~, Goodbye, and Good Luck!

Too bad Misinformed won't be back. There is so much that she didn't touch upon. Like all the elections having been stolen since 2000. Like Bush blowing up the levees in New Orleans. Like the chemtrails in the sky. Like the oil companies are lowering the price of gasoline to help Bush and the Republicans. Maybe some other liberal kook can take up the slack.

I say tee up BushCo, take out the Big
Bertha, and swing hard.

Ron, Are you advocating that physical harm be done to the President of the United States? The Vice President? The Cabinet? You may be getting a visit from the Secret Service. That department takes a dim view of such remarks.

Well, I'll tell you, Misinformed (who we'll turn into Ms. Interned) deserves a lot of credit is she truly stays away, given the almost irresistible female urge to have the last word.

Lets see 19 'alleged' flight school dropouts, [7 proven alive, AP, Gaurdian, London Telegraph], outwitted the multi billion dollar airforce, for nearly 2 hours, in the most protected airspace on earth. The Pentagon gets hit by Hani Hanjour who could barely get his pilots credentials, executes an incredible turn and hits the building at its most reinforced point, undergoing renovation and with the least amount of people working at the time. It also hits Army and Naval offices that were investigating the whereabouts of $2.3 trillion, that Rummy couldn't account for as stated on 9/10/01 [CBS 2002, DoD, 2001. How fortuitous that information got buried under the next days event. So you see theres no conspiracy 'theories'There are only 'coincidence'theories. Coincidences are just so much more comforting.

Mr. Fingers, How did you get this highly-classified information? It was the responsibility of the Enforcement Division of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to insure the integrity if Rummy's mission. Since it's clandestine shroud has been compromised, there is no further need for secrecy. The $2.3 trillion went almost in its entirety to Halliburton for the construction of the concentration camps. The fact that Lord Rove and Rummy could amass and steal such a monumental sum in only eight months is a testament to their genius. As soon as the Rove finishes his task of stealing the election, the roundup of dissidents will get into full swing. You'll like it in the camps. Everything is new and modern. Remember, to resist is futile, Lord Rove has taken precautions for any eventuality. Compliance will assure your assimmilation and make your stay, however long, more pleasant.

wow...i see you found something better to do with your lives. it's been months. you still come back and check on this, alex? judge smalls? i just wondered if you noticed that you were the only two dissenters in nearly all of these posts. and all you do in any of them is insult the other dozens of people who actually have something to say. it makes you both look like a couple of ignorant assholes.

Who paid you off? And, do you do your own research, or do you just suck on the corporate media's fat titty everytime they whip it out? 911 was an inside job, just Google it and be prepared to have your socks rocked off by the truth...

My head is spinning. Flicked on Last Comments - as you do when you can't be bothered to work through the blogs - and saw the Conspiracy heading. Didn't remember reading it (hadn't looked at this website that long ago) and dropped my copy of "The Reign of Charles V (of Spain) in amazement. Well, it does open with the sentence "This is not, however, a biography of Charles V, much less a detailed study of his reign", so another crappy Christmas present from last year then. Anyway, to get to the point, at first I thought "Oh No, there goes Chris Baldwin knocking the Canadians again" but then I read the comments - in much the same way as I have read Ulysses by scanning the first five lines of each chapter. This must be the first time that I have ever agreed with anything that Alex & Judge Smails have ever said - only the bits vis a vis the conspiracy theory, obviously. I searched in vain for a crumb of sanity from someone like Shanks (well, it was supposed to be a Golfblog), but the whole thing just got crazier and crazier.

Actually, I may just print it all out, and correct the spelling and typos. Perfect for after lunch Boxing Day entertainment as there is no golf to watch and I couldn't get a decent tee-time. Merry Christmas all.