I've met my share of Canadians who love nothing more than to bash the current administration in my presence. While I believe in some of their views usually, sometimes I'm just sick of feeling like I have to defend my country's stances to outsiders.

I mean, I wanted to get rid of the two-line pass in hockey for a decade but I never shoved it down any of their throats.

good for him. there are hundreds of questions that have yet to be answered, not to mention the omissions and distortions in the 9/11 report. please watch '9/11: press for truth' on google video. it relies only on mainstream media for its sources. you may want to take back the 'loonies' crack before history exposes the truth.

There are some crazy conspiracy theories. There are also some conspiracy theories where cannot be proved directly, but rely on a preponderance of evidence and do stand up to the most stringent debates. The 'debunkers' usually rely on the theories that can be disproved easily, ignoring the ones that have some merit.

People don't come up with these theories for no reason. Unexplainable actions by the government along with a penchant for secrecy fuel these. WE SHOULD BE ASKING QUESTIONS. It is the basis for democracy.

I would recommend 9/11 Press for Truth. It's not kooky. It asks earnest questions by the victims family members.

Your anecdotal "story" reeks of prevarication. You needed a starting point to spew your reactionary idiocy and you made up a foursome with a "Canadian". Every word you write harms the game. You have no credibility when railing against Michelle Wie and you are even less credible when you spew your right wing talking points.
You are a sociopath and need psychological help immediately.

Chris, There you have it. Liberal kookery is alive and well in the good old USA.(And Canada as well.) A liberal kook once was speaking loudly in my presence that the WTC towers weren't destroyed by aircraft smashing into them at all. That they were in fact imploded, similar to what is done to Vegas casinos that have become obsolete. I asked him how the explosives could have been set in place with no one being aware of them. That it takes thousands of man hours to prepare a building one third the height and volume of the WTC towers for demolition by implosion. That many personnel and that amount of equipment and explosives could not be kept secret. But he was adamant. Bush had been planning this coup for years before he was even President, the conspirators were either paid handsomely or liquidated, they were intimidated and put in fear of their lives,etc. Bob Dobbs probably thinks along those same lines. Left wing, liberal kooks.

Hey Alex, who stood down NORAD?

The most unbelievable conspiracy theory is that a handful of box cutter weilding cave dwellers could usurp the most powerful air defense in the world.

Your willful ignorance is shameful.

Bob Dobbs, You have your opinions and I have mine. If you want to believe that everything is the result of some clandestine cabal, by all means feel free to do so. We who have a lot more common sense, will continue to see things as they are, not as we wish them to be. Not everyone wants to be viewed as a delusional, liberal, left wing kook. If that's how you want to be seen, have at it.

And your explanation of why trillions of dollars of aerial defenses were completely defeated by a dozen guys with boxcutters is what?

Common sense holds this conspiracy theory suspect.

It would seem you right wingers are the delusional folks. Not everyone wants to be viewed as willfully ignorant. If that is how you want to be seen, have at it.

Bob Dobbs, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain to you how a group of terrorists bent on destruction with no concern for their own safety and in fact committing suicide while in the process of said destruction, could accomplish their goals. But it happens all the time. Suicide/homicide bombers get through tough and sophisticated security measures all the time. If that explanation is too simplistic for you, that's just too bad. Do you believe that the WTC towers were imploded by Bush operatives, that Flight 93 never crashed in PA, and that the Pentagon was hit by a Bush-fired missile rather than a jet airplane? These fantasies are gospel to the real conspiracy theorists.

If Payne Stewart's jet was intercepted by NORAD in minutes, why were none of the 911 jets intercepted in an hour and a half? How was a huge jet able to hit the Pentagon through the most protected airspace in the world? You don't have the time, the inclination or the FACTS to explain that one.

It's fascinating that you keep bringing up the disinfo red herrings but refuse to deal with the real question that trumps all the others.

Bob Dobbs It's true that I don't have what you say are facts to explain why the jets were not intercepted. Do you have these facts? Since you are the one insinuating that 9-11 was an inside job, and if you have rhese "facts", what is your explanation? Please don't engage in the fallacy of asking why something didn't happen. Tell me why it DID happen.

9/11 TRUTH FOR BEGINNERS: http://www.journalof911studies.com/
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POLL: 42% SAY 9/11 COVERUP!!! "The next time the media marginalizes 9/11 skeptics - remind them that 42% of the American public believe there is a 9/11 coverup, then refer them to the older zogby poll from 2004 which found that "Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and 'Consciously Failed' To Act", and finally point out that over half of the country thinks they have done a bad job covering 9/11 questions and related issues.

"What does this poll do for us? Well, nothing if you don't get out there and pressure the media to cover it. The results of this poll show that over 40% of the American public believe there is an ongoing cover up of 9/11 - if that isn't news then I don't know what is.

"Note: These are just a few things I thought stood out, check out the other images and the final report linked above for more detail.
http://www.journalof911studies.com [click on "blog"]
Big thanks to 911truth.org for sponsoring this poll"
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Five Years On, 9/11 Truth Movement Reaches Critical Mass

- Near Majority Support, Powerful New Tools, and Energized Activism Promise Endgame Soon

September 11 Press Release
from 911truth.org

Escalating mainstream mistrust of "official 9/11 story" driven by important new films, books and activist campaigns; promises new openings for insurgent candidacies and radical reform initiatives.

September 11, 2006 (PRWEB) -- The year leading up to the fifth anniversary of the September 11 attacks has been marked by an unprecedented upsurge in public mistrust of the official story portrayed in the 9/11 Commission Report. Respected national polling firms Zogby and Scripps Howard have shown that less than half the public believes in the conclusions or integrity of the 9/11 Commission, and 36% of Americans now think the administration was actively complicit in the attacks to advance its preplanned Mideast war agenda.

This outburst of popular skepticism has come in spite of five years of lockstep support for the official 9/11 narrative by the national press, broadcast media, and both major political parties. The mounting distrust spans the political, religious and ethnic spectrums, and has been largely driven by compelling new films, books, whistleblower reports, and escalating grassroots activism. Collectively these resources and constituencies not only offer the country hope for a fresh and truly honest 9/11 probe, but also a potent new base for radical political reform....

...."Overall, however, the real message of 9/11 truth has now reached a critical mass of citizens, and ruthless defamation tactics may prolong the 'media controversy' but are ultimately doomed to fail. Truth has an inherent strange attractor force that cannot be dispelled, not by cynical propaganda nor overwhelming media power. It is in that lust for truth and justice that our democracy once began, and 9/11 truth now offers Americans the chance to feel that thrill again." http://www.911truth.org

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[9/11 DISINFOMEISTERS PANIC
Neonazicons Hunker in The Bunker]

2 US Reports Seek to Counter
Conspiracy Theories About 9/11

By Jim Dwyer
New York Times
September 2, 2006

[As 9/11's fifth anniversary nears and 9/11 skeptics approach majority status, the official story disinfo industry swings into high gear. Since the "no WTC demolitions" proponents are now largely relying on the "inconceivable logistic difficulties" of such a scheme, it's time for our research community to present a brief telling synopsis of the reported security lockdowns in various towers in the weeks before the attacks, Neil Bush's ties to the WTC security company, the call-off of the WTC dog patrols, etc. Jones, Ryan, Hoffman, et al. have helped elucidate the motives and means. We now need to document the opportunities. - 911truth.org Ed. ]

Faced with an angry minority of people who believe the Sept. 11 attacks were part of a shadowy and sprawling plot run by Americans, separate reports were published this week by the State Department and a federal science agency insisting that the catastrophes were caused by hijackers who used commercial airliners as weapons.
The official narrative of the attacks has been attacked as little more than a cover story by an assortment of radio hosts, academics, amateur filmmakers and others who have spread their arguments on the Internet and cable television in America and abroad. As a motive, they suggest that the Bush administration wanted to use the attacks to justify military action in the Middle East....

READ MORE: http://www.911truth.org

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PENTAGON MISSILE HOAX:

the "no Boeing" theories discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from proven evidence of complicity

the fake debate between no plane and no complicity gets the Bush regime off the hook
there is zero evidence for any of the "no plane" claims - hundreds of people saw Flight 77, none saw a cruise missile, Global Hawk robot plane, smaller plane or flying saucer piloted by giant lizards
the physical evidence shows that a large twin engine jet hit the nearly empty part of the Pentagon, the "Black Boxes" were found, cleanup crews found remains of the passengers, the "hole was too small" claim was a hoax making 9/11 complicity dependent on the no-plane claim was a brilliant tactic to discredit the real evidence for people inside the Beltway, both for the majority who vote against Bush and the political / military elites (especially the military officers who saw the plane crash or the plane debris)
the material on this page and all of the websites that are linked here should finally extinguish the "no plane" hoax -- except for those who have staked their credibility on these claims and cannot admit a mistake, and those who intentionally promote the hoax. Every claim for the "no plane" hoaxes is refuted here or at a page linked from this page....
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html
[This site will help clarify the Karl Rovian smoke&mirrors designed to confuse 911 hoax investigators and inquiring citizens, by setting up "straw man," decoy sites and theories, etc. They then "debunk" these, thus casting doubt on the GENUINE parts of the 911 truth investigations.

Check out Alexander Cockburn's most recent use of this nasty little trick in his nasty little "Beat The Devil" column in the September 2006 Nation magazine online, predictably titled "911 Conspiracy Nuts."]

See also: The purpose of "no planes" is to protect the plotters: http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

"Lots of military people saw the plane and wreckage, and making the conspiracy dependent on the "no plane hoax" gets Bush and Cheney off the hook. The issue is not what the peons (us) think about these issues -- the real issue is what the military and civilian leadership in DC think about these issues. No plane speculations and hoaxes steer people away from real evidence of complicity such as how the plane was steered into the nearly empty part of the Pentagon and the role of the wargames in paralyzing the defense of Washington. Cui bono - who benefits? How long would Cheney and Bush be in office if the rest of the military thought that the PNAC gang allowed 9/11 to happen -- or deliberately flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon via some form of remote control?

"The fact that "No Plane" is the cudgel being used against the 9/11 truth movement proves it is a counterproductive strategy for exposing real evidence of complicity. Whether these hoaxes are coming from deliberate disinformation agents, the aggressively naive, the gullible or the sloppy is not relevant, since the ONLY evidence for "no plane" is altered and misleading perspective photos. There is NO evidence that even comes close to the standard of proof needed to convince a newspaper editor or a judge.
"Sandia test shows what happens in high speed plane crashes...." http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

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T E L L A F R I E N D

The following email will be sent to each email address you specify in the Tell a Friend form....

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For those not familiar with his story, computer programmer Clint Curtis testified to Congress that he had been requested by Tom Feeney, an elected US official, to build a software program that could flip the votes in an electronic voting machine without detection. This computer hack would allow a person or political party to secretly control that machine, thereby deciding the winner, regardless of the actual votes cast.

Much more is at stake than a single Florida House seat....

....Please Visit http://www.clintcurtis.com.

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NIST's World Trade Center FAQ

A REPLY to the National Institute for Standards and Technology's Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
by Jim Hoffman

INTRODUCTION

On August 30, 2006, the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) posted on their website a list of fourteen frequently asked questions (FAQ) and answers to them. NIST should be commended for at least addressing a number of the serious questions that have been raised with regard to its investigation. However, NIST's new FAQ avoids answering the central charges of its most visible critique, Building a Better Mirage....
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/nist/WTC_FAQ_reply.html

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GOP Candidate Says 9/11 Attacks Were a Hoax

A Republican candidate for this area's congressional seat said Wednesday that the U.S. government was complicit in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

by Albert McKeon
The Nashua Telegraph
24 August 2006

[A courageous stand in the "Live Free or Die" state by a GOP challenger, no less, who has also called for Cheney's resignation and quotes Dr. David Ray Griffin on her site, http://maxwellforcongress.com. We encourage all truth advocates to check out her campaign and perhaps lend a hand in whatever way they can. - 911Truth Ed.]

In an editorial board interview with The Telegraph on Wednesday, the candidate, Mary Maxwell, said the U.S. government had a role in killing nearly 3,000 people at the World Trade Center and Pentagon, so it could make Americans hate Arabs and allow the military to bomb Muslim nations such as Iraq....
Article at: http://www.911truth.org

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9/11 And Demonic Consciousness

David Ray Griffin is presenting a workshop on the theme of 9/11 and Demonic Consciousness as part of The Eighth International Conference on Science and Consciousness, Santa Fe, NM.

My thesis is that the attacks of 9/11 were products of demonic consciousness, with "the demonic" understood as an emergent reality that is diametrically opposed to the creative power of the universe and strong enough to threaten its purposes. To explain how demonic power can arise in a monotheistic universe. I use the philosophy of Alfred North Whitehead, with some help from Carl Jung. Then to explain how demonic evil arose historically, I employ ideas from Andrew Bard Schmookler's Parable of the Tribes. Finally, arguing that this demonic consciousness now exists most powerfully in the USA, I suggest that a preeminent manifestation of it in our time was 9/11, orchestrated by the Bush-Cheney administration. In making this latter argument, I will draw on my two books on the subject: The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11 and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions.
Goal: To show the possibility of a view of demonic evil that is realistic — doing justice to the way in which our collective lives are dominated by values that can only be called demonic — without being mythological.

Learning Objectives:

To develop a basic understanding of how Whitehead's version of theism allows for the rise of demonic evil,
to develop a sense of how the ideas of Schmookler and Jung can explain the historical rise of demonic evil, and to develop a deeper appreciation of the relation between 9/11 and the American Empire.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/571-page-lie.htm#workshop

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From a childhood friend's comments on Some of The Above News's campaign for the truth about 9/11:

"....That is without a doubt the biggest bunch of drivel. How do you explain the planes that went down in Pennsylvania or into the Pentagon? And why should the government be responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Center when that is so crucial to American capitalism? They could have achieved the same effect with a lesser target. But the far left is doing its damage because I heard that a third of the American people believe this crap. What has always amazed me is that you believe it. You're far too bright for that, I thought. But it strikes me that maybe you don't believe it, but that it's a useful tool.
Well, after that cheery note, I'll say TTFN (ta-ta for now)."
Shirley (not real name)


EDITOR REPLIES:

Thank you for the opportunity to enlighten you (and at the same time many of the slower members of the Some of The Above News subscriber family). As you know our motto is: "There are no dumb questions; only dumb questioners."
Your right-wingnut talking points suggest that you are probably an avid fan of the talking haircuts of the TeeVee News. While I don't have time today to answer all these points, I will link you to some sites which will answer them, and most others you might come up with in your journey back to good old USofA reality.
Give the soaps a rest, Dearie! Loosen up with the Loose Change crowd. Spend some quality time with http://www.911truth.org and your brain.
Synchronistically enough, this very day I ran across the article excerpted below. I call your attention especially to this quote from it:
"....After spending the better part of the last five years treating these theories with utmost skepticism, I have devoted serious time to actually studying them in recent months, and have also carefully watched several videos that are available on the subject. I have come to believe that significant parts of the 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the "official story" put out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false...."
You should take great comfort in the fact that this truth-seeker, a former CIA official, was also bamboozled by the corporate media for five years.
Yours truly spent only about one and one-half years in the dark, probably mostly because I have not watched television since 1994, and because my reading and experiences had already made me skeptical of the government/media complex. Thus I was already more inclined to question government/media claims.
You seem to believe that it is the "far left" that is convincing people, but one of 9/11 truth-seekers' main frustrations is the EXTREME timidity, the church-mouse silence on the matter, of NEARLY ALL of the "left" "progressive" publications, pundits, websites, blogs, talk show hosts, etc. They have come to be called "the left gate-keepers." Like the proverbial dog in the manger they not only neglect the vital information they have access to, but also keep it from everybody else. Fear is the main factor here: fear of losing their grants, being black-balled by colleagues and sources, being called "conspiracy theorists," irresponsible, irrelevant, etc. And fear of being targeted for career and/or physical harassment or termination. Actually some of the most courageous and eloquent 9/11 "detectives" are conservatives, like Paul Craig Roberts, who was a high official in the Reagan administration, Wall Street Journal writer, etc.
Thus your "useful tool" hypothesis don't hunt.

Excerpt from:

Another Ex-CIA Official Speaks Out for 9/11 Truth

Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11

by Bill Christison
www.dissidentvoice.org
August 14, 2006

....Let's address the real issues here. Why is it important that we not let the so-called conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 be drowned out? After spending the better part of the last five years treating these theories with utmost skepticism, I have devoted serious time to actually studying them in recent months, and have also carefully watched several videos that are available on the subject. I have come to believe that significant parts of the 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the "official story" put out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false. I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. The items below highlight the major questions surrounding 9/11 but do not constitute a detailed recounting of the evidence available....

....This should be worked on at two different levels. At the first level, the objective should be long-term, centered on making a maximum effort to find out who the individuals and groups are that carried out the attacks in New York and Washington. Then, these people should be tried in an international court and, if possible, convicted and punished for causing so many deaths. Such a trial, accompanied by actual change in U.S. policies, would show that some people on this globe are at least trying to move closer to more just and decent behavior in human relationships around the world.

At the second level, the short term, the task should be to immediately set to work as hard as is humanly possible to defeat in this year's congressional election any candidate who refuses to support a no-holds-barred investigation of 9/11 by the Congress or a high-level international court. No more evidence than is now available is needed in order to begin this process.

A manageable volume of carefully collected and analyzed evidence is already at hand on both items ONE and TWO above. Such evidence should be used right now to buttress charges that elements within the Bush administration, as well as possibly other groups foreign or domestic, were involved in a massive fraud against the American people, a fraud that has led to many thousands of deaths....

[Bill Christison is a former senior official of the CIA. He was a National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979. Since then he has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies. He can be reached at: kathy.bill@christison-santafe.com ]
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060815025513406

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Through an executive order issued by George Bush in August of 2001 the resposibility of giving the order to intercept was transferred from the NORAD base commanders to the Secretary of Defense. While Donald Rumsfeld was present in the Pentagon during the 911 event, he refused to give the order to intercept.

Those are the facts.

The testimony of Norman Mineta that Cheney repeatedly denied to issue an order to shoot down, while in the situation room of the White House and having been informed that a jet airliner was 50 miles away. The aid asked for again at 30 miles. Mineta is on record as Cheney insisting that the orders stand. No plane was dispatched to intercept. No air to ground missles were prepared. This despite the fact that the Pentagon has been protected by air to ground missles since the early sixties. Those are facts, and they all point to the Administration allowing planes to reach their targets. Wake up!

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

Thanks for that reference, Fred.

The document I was referring to is this one:
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction CJCSI 3610.01A (dated 1
June 2001) was issued for the purpose of providing "guidance to the Deputy Director for Operations (DDO), National Military Command Center (NMCC), and operational commanders in the event of an aircraft piracy (hijacking) or request for destruction of derelict airborne objects." This new instruction superseded CJCSI 3610.01 of 31 July 1997.

This CJCSI states that "In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be
notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward
requests for DOD assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval."

Reference D refers to Department of Defense Directive 3025.15 (Feb. 18,
1997) which allows for commanders in the field to provide assistance to
save lives in an emergency situation -- BUT any requests involving
"potentially lethal support" (including "combat and tactical vehicles,
vessels or aircraft; or ammunition") must still be approved by the
Secretary of Defense. So again, the ability to respond to a hijacking in
any meaningful fashion, is stripped from the commanders in the field."

It was Cheney who was commanding the war room that day, but Rumsfeld who held the legal responsibility to give the order. Neither gave that order.

Why?

Chris Baldwin, You'd better run for the hills, the liberal, left-wing kooks are coming out of the woodwork. Did anyone get through that "War and Peace" type post? It looks like our friend, Bob Dobbs, is a firm believer that President George W, Bush, Vice-President Dick Cheney, all the Bush cabinet and advisors, as well as a whole host of high-ranking military officers were either complicit in the planning of the 9-11 attacks, or had full knowledge of them and refused to do anything about them. He is just a little shy about admitting his feelings. It is an established fact that a conspiracy with more than two people involved invariably ends in failure. The conspiracy that these liberal kooks espouse would of necessity entail the cooperation and silence of literally thousands. But if they find some sort of pleasure in believing that the President, Vice-President, the Cabinet, and the Military would knowingly be involved in the willful murder of 3,000 of their fellow American citizens as well as the destruction of billions of dollars in property, and strike a severe blow to the economy of the very country that they had sworn to defend and protect, it is certainly their business. It just seems like any sane person would see that scenario for the fantasy that it is.

Yeah, alex, continue to willfully ignore the facts of the situation. Continue to ignore the swon testimony in the 911 commission hearings. You are living in the fantasy world and are in a shrinking minority.

The sane majority of America has awakened to the reality of what really happened five years ago and wants answers and accountability now.

You would be surprised how few conspirators it took to pull this off but they will be brought to justice.

How many conspirators were there? And Bob, I live in the same country as you do and work in the business world with hundreds of people of all political persuasions. I don't know of a single person who espouses your crackpot theories. Now, if the majority of Americans have now been convinced of this fantasy, why is it that I have been encapsulated from this sweeping tide of enraged geniuses seeking retribution? Is it possible that all my contacts are part of your"shrinking minority?" And Bob, who exactly are these few conspiring murderers and who exactly is going to bring the "to justice?"

Given your tragic cranio-rectal inversion, none of your statements surprise me.

Nice reply, Bob. Right on topic and to the point. Sure. But then, it should be expected from a liberal, left-wing kook with a large, tinfoil hat. Chris Baldwin, since you started this blog, answer this question: How do they do it? I'm referring to the left-wing kooks who have answered this blog without having been part of this site UNTIL you posted something partially political. Do they have some sort of hot line where they can alert their fellow kooks to the opportunity to rant at someone with whom they disagree? Take Bob Dobbs, PLEASE, for instance. I've never seen that user name or that style before on this site. Unless he is clever enough to disguise his modus operandi, which I doubt, he is not a mole and is serious in his quack theories, whatever they might be. And the rest are similarly unfamiliar. Do they cruise around the entire internet looking for controversy? Again, how do they do it? Maybe if they would use such diligence at work, they might be able to keep a job. That is, if they have ever had one.

Chris, I fear that Bob Dobbs is more to be pitied than censured. He began by railing against you, accusing you of prevarication in fabricating your encounter with the liberal Canuck kook. Then he posts several rants that give support to your contention that the kooks are everywhere, even on golf courses and golf blogs.

Here's a great video that you all need to see.

It's about the 9/11 victims' families quest for truth and justice:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1016720641536424083&q=press+for+truth

I think you should stick to writing about golf, it's more on your intellectual level.


man goes swing

man goes put

ball goes in


it's simple, so your brain can fathom it, it's completely linear and requires no more thinking that simple math and a rudimentary understanding of inertia.

I'm sorry...but in order to buy the government's absurd, poorly supported, scripted line regarding 9/11 events, one would have to be far more of a "kooky conspiracy theorist."

Stick to golf, Chris.

sorry dummy, but you need to do your homework. No steel skyscraper has ever fallen from fire, even if it burned for more than 24 hours. One of the towers fell after only 56 minutes. Who do they think they're kidding? You, obviously.

Thank God for the "Kooks." The US Government has gotten away with its corruption for too long. It's a good thing not everyone walks around like sheep and ASK QUESTIONS. Nah, that takes brain power and knowledge. It's so much easier to let them explain away with their cover-ups. Too bad so much is contradicted right on film.

BTW-WHAT television station was Bush watching when he stated on Dec. 4, 2001 that he SAW the first plane hit the tower and thought it was bad pilot error? The ONLY television he might have seen it on was closed circut that had been set up in advance because NO station viewed that scene. THE NEXT DAY a man making a documentary released HIS footage of the first plane hitting.

The biggest problem with corruption...the LIES are hard to keep track of and you trip them up sooner than later.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. The ONLY 'CONSPIRACY THEORY' is the story released by the Government.

Mr Baldwin...Please do some research before whining about things you know NOTHING about. Do it FOR THE FAMILIES of the VICTIMS SEEKING THE TRUTH TO THIS DAY!!

I questioned this the second I witnessed the first tower fall. In my heart I knew something was not right. I put nothing past any Industrialized Nation on this Earth. However this is nothing new to the world. It has been repeated itself time and time again. We have yet to evolve from this state of being as homosapians. It can make a man apathetic about towards his fellow humans. Again people, we are citizen's of this planet, and no "GOVERNMENT" will ever dictate my being. Stick to writing about golf. Your humor is that of a ignorant, sheltered little boy.

Stop playing golf long enough to exercise your brain a little bit there golfer man.

Just a sampling of my contentions of why the official story of 9/11 just doesn't make sense to me:

George Bush as President of the United States of America was on August 6, 2001, reportedly given a national security briefing which included information advising that sources were warning of a terrorist plan to use hijacked airliners as weapons. The very next month, not 8 years, or 3 years, or even 9 months, but a little over 4 weeks later, he sits in a classroom knowing a plane has hit one of the WTC buildings. Now, it is common knowledge that the WTC was the target of the same "terrorists" in 1993 and reportedly they vowed to attack it again one day in order to bring them down. Yet, he sat on his rear end in a classroom full of kids knowing that a plane had flown into one of the buildings on the morning of September 11, 2001. He was advised before he ever went into the classroom that the WTC had been attacked but went inside to read about a goat anyway? Does this make ANY sense to any thinking individual with even bare minimum critical thinking skills? And the same thing goes for the Vice President Dick Cheney, surely he was briefed also. I'm sure he was well aware of the "threat," probably more so than Bush. And they did NOTHING? And they're are reports that Transportation Secretary Norman overheard Dick Cheney dressing down a junior military officer when he asked the VP "does the order still stand" which indicates Cheney was certainly at front and center of the command and control elements during this time.

And how did the "terrorists" know that NORAD was going to stand down on the morning of September 11, 2001. Based on on quotes I've read interviews I've listened to with former fighter pilots who were assigned to NORAD, including a retired Air Force Colonel, Bowman I believe is his name, this could never have happened unless it was purposely allowed to
happen.

I find it very interesting that on the cover of my newspaper the very next morning on September 12, 2001, the headline read "ATTACK ON AMERICA, Bush promises: We will win the war against terrorism." They had already crafted a title that we all know so well...."the war on terror." Personally, I just find that very interesting in light of everything else I know.

I also find it very implausible that members of the Bush Administration, and the Bush family, including Vice President Dick Cheney, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz-the architect of the Bush Doctrine regarding war in the Middle East, Jeb Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Dov S. Zakheim, Comptroller, Department of Defense, Peter W.
Rodman, Assistant Secretary of Defense, etc, etc, etc, were all members of the Project For A New American Century (PNAC), a neo-con think-tank group, who as a group stated that what America needed was a catalyzing Pearl Harbor type event in order to persuade the American people into allowing them to carry out their purported policies throughout the world.

And what about President Bush's brother Marvin Bush being a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport, but only started a short time before September 2001?

And what about World Trade Center Building #7? This building was not hit by any plane yet it fell just like one of those old casinos or hotels you see go down in Las Vegas or somewhere on one of those demolition videos. And the owner of the World Trade Center just purchased the buildings two or three months prior to September 11, 2001, and took out what many say was an extraordinary amount of extra insurance on it?????????

And what about OPERATION NORTHWOODS, an official plan by elements within our own government that sought to carry out terrorist attacks on the American people as a pretext for an invasion into Cuba. Kill American citizens????? YOu've got to be kidding me. This is now declassified, at least for now! ( http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662 )

The Bush administration appears to have done everything they can to thwart any attempt to secure our nations borders. The first thing any nation having been the target of such an attack would do would be to secure its borders. Four and five years after the events of September 11, 2001, the is still a DEBATE going on as to whether or not border security should be an issue!

And it has been reported for a long time now by sources that I consider to be reputable that several of the "hijackers" were trained at U.S. military bases! You've got to be kidding me and not mention of this in the mainstream media, not even on Fox News! And I understand that one of the "lead hijackers" was actually trained at a U.S. military base for international officer's training? What the hell is that about?

I contend that elements within the United States government, including those who were members of the PNAC and others were complicit in allowing the September 11 attacks to occur and personally I believe elements within our government were also working in a management and control capacity whereby they sponsored foreign terrorists through black
operation set-ups using controlled assets, some of whom may have actually thought themselves that they were working against the west. Our country absolutely does have a history of this kind of thing. If you have anything to negate any of my contentions listed above I would surely like to know about it. I mean serious contentions, not "conspiracy theories" like the one put out as the official story by the government that allowed it to happen. Believe me, these contentions were drawn up, by me, without any help, in a matter of minutes, and they represent only a small fraction of contentions I could make to contend that a new and independent investigation needs to be conducted to find out what happened. I'm sure I can come up numerous and possibly even stronger contentions, given the time and the knowledge that someone would actually read them and give a damn.
-Max

AND THIS IS FROM AN EARLIER BLOG I'VE ALREADY FORGOTTEN I WROTE. I WILL INCLUDE IT HERE BECAUSE I THINK IT MAY MAKE SOME MORE POINTS. AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT WATCH THIS VIDEO THAT LAYS OUT THE TIMELINE OF BUSH'S WHEREABOUTS AND ACTIVITIES AT THE TIME OF THE ATTACKS.

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=-j2VXfoy-dk&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//sjl-static16.sjl.youtube.com/vi/-j2VXfoy-dk/2.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskJeo08kSBgVo9B-cPy9m76K


MY OLDER BLOG

Bush knew

All individuals in significant positions within the Bush Administration knew of the threat of terrorists hijacking planes and using them as weapons yet Bush and his National Security Advisor both came out in the days immediately following the 9/11 attacks and said that NO ONE had EVER been aware of any such threat. If you don't remember those little public statements I can find them for you. They are all over the internet for anyone who cares to research it on their own. It is just amazing to me how the talk shows just go on day after day, month after month, year after year, speaking as if they were unaware of so much information that is available to anyone who gives a damn. And anyone who does care is labeled a coward, or a traitor, and probably coming in the not too distant future will be labeled as a terrorist. What a sick world. -Max

And Tara, you asked on your show last Sunday, why are people turning on Bush? You've got to be kidding me, right? Yes, I was a little sheep not too long ago. I was caught up in the whole left/right paradigm that was constructed to keep me ignorant. I voted for Bush both in '04 and in '00, and Dole before that (he now works for a lobbying firm for Dubai), and I voted for papa Bush when he ran against Clinton (and I kept saying why is he not even trying, now I know he wanted Clinton to win) and I am a conservative. Too many things started making me question what I was seeing and hearing so guess what? I started listening less and less to Limbaugh, Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly, and Jason Lewis and started doing some research on my own, seeking out answers to things that just weren't making any sense to me. Things like four years going by after the terrible terrorist attacks on 9/11 but only lip service being paid to securing our nation's borders. It didn't add up. Five years after these attacks there was actually a debate going on as to whether or not the borders should be secured !!! And Bush kept sticking his foot in his mouth and I kept going out and looking on my own and finding out things that I never knew about Bush, Bush Sr. and many other things and I started finding out that most if not all of the people I knew that supported Bush were COMPLETELY UNAWARE of these things. And I started realizing that I had been had. I was born and raised in Charlotte, NC. I was influenced by the shows I watched in the reruns of idealistic 1960's television shows and by my family. After high school I wanted to serve my country so I became a Marine and went on to become a Marine infantry NCO. After that I got out and went back to school because at 23 I thought I was getting old and life was going to pass me by and then I got hooked on political debate and felt at home with the conservatives. It would be very easy for me to turn my back on any searching for truth. I'm sure I could be much happier and much easier to be around and life would be so much easier for me but I can't do it. I want the truth. I believe in the ideals of this country so much that I am willing to die for them and I believe the neocons and their mouthpieces are doing a terrible injustice to all of those that have gone before us. I actually know a what I believe is a whole lot more than I can even speak to most people but for now I will end it there. Sorry, I forgot to take my pill today but you did ask the question. -Max, Semper Fi to the Constitution, truth, justice, and what I always grew up believing was the American way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCjbmImBa6w&mode=related&search=

The following link includes a clip of President Bush's statement regarding no one ever having been aware of the threat. The first link above show's Condelezza Rice's statement or one of many I'm sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I687jvb2uf8&feature=PlayList&p=DDCD5FB54BD8562F&index=29


Who benefited from the 9/11 attacks?

PNAC blueprint that says: "the process of transformation is likely to be a long one. Absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor." For more information on the PNAC think tank group starring Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condelezza Rice,
Wolfowtiz, etc, etc, etc, etc.

This excerpt from the web page Empire Burlesque is very revealing:

A New Pearl Harbor"
PNAC fired its first shot across the bow in 1998, with letters to President Clinton and Congressional leaders calling for "regime change" in Iraq, by force if necessary, and the establishment of a "strong U.S. military presence in the region." Then in September 2000, just months before the disputed election that brought George W. Bush to power, the group published a highly detailed, 90-page "blueprint" for transforming America's military and the nation's role on the world stage. (see: http://empireburlesquenow.blogspot.com/2005/03/dark-passage-pnacs-blueprint-for.html )



"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories
concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away
from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."

-- George W. Bush
43rd US President,
Yale Skull & Bones Society
Stated at the United Nations,
November 11, 2001


"You can fool some of the people all of the time,
and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

George W. Bush,
(joking?) at a Gridiron Club dinner,
Washington, D.C., March 2001.


The Mysterious Collapse of World Trace Center Building 7

"It is commonly known that the Twin Towers fell on 9/11,
but did you know that a third building also fell that day?
WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper located
one block from the Twin Towers collapsed at 5:20 that evening,
imploding in the exact manner of a professionally engineered demolition.
It fell suddenly straight down, at near freefall speed, and landed in a
compact pile of rubble, barely damging any of the surrounding buildings.."

For information on this and 10 other remarkable facts, see:

11 Remarkable Facts About 9/11


I contend that at the very least factions within our own government, including the Bush Administration, and also members of the PNAC, were very aware of the threat and did everything they could to facilitate the attacks of 9/11, not limited to but likely including agent provocateuring and sponsoring such acts through a complicated maze of black-op nameless subsidiary managing operations.

-Max

"Canadians love bashing the Bush administration"? How about anyone with at least half of their brain left working without influence from Faux News bashes Bush and his administration. Anyone in the US who gives a damn about justice, TRUTH, liberties and the future of their country bashes Bush and this administration. You ignorant twits are so quick to spout off your "liberal" this and that but too boneheaded to see that you are no better, just on the other end of the same coin of manipulated stupidity. How did we end up in this war? Manipulated. How did we get lied to so many times and fall for it? Manipulation. Both sides do it, these NeoCons do it very well. People better wake the hell up and realize your country is under attack by enemys abroad. If you think that's not possible, you're ignorance is probably rooted too deep for you to ever have a chance.

As per 9/11: Before you shout out either way, do your research. YOUR research, lazy asses. Come to your conclusion. There is an absolute wealth of reasons for people to speculate that criminal elements of our gov't carried those events out to get the war they despirately wanted, per the Project For a New American Century papers and much much more.

Hey moron! A Ninja coming soon. Heads UP! ~T

golf is a lame sport that shouldn't be encouraged to play with spectators any more than masterbation in public. go have fun, folks!Don't forget to beLIEve everything our media and government tells at all times!

Re: previous post... Meant to say that we are under attack by enemies abroad and at home. And by abroad, I don't mean 3rd world Islamic countries.

The real question pertaining to 9/11 is, "Who benefits the most from it all?"

To answer that question, I would suggest reading "Crossing The Rubicon" by Michael C. Ruppert.

http://www.reopen911.org/books_dvds.htm

Scroll all the way down and you'll find it for $14 (I paid $23 at Barnes & Noble). I've found this to be the least sensationalist, most well researched, and least crackpot of all the books that I have seen regarding the subject.

What is very telling about all of this is that those who have questions are reading and doing research from multiple sources. Those who agree with the administration's story (as well as the 9/11 Commission [or Omission, depending on your view] Report), really only watch TV and read the newspaper, The National Review, or Popular Mechanics (gross negligence).

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-Mark Twain


“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine. And remember that we are not descended from fearful men; not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that, for the moment were unpopular. And so, Good Night and Good Luck.”
- Edward R. Murrow

Hey bub, stick to golf...

Bet you still believe in Santa Claus too....

"Our government would never do that" who trained the Terrorists to fight the Soviets........

Oh well, bet you are first in line to get chipped too, for your own good.

any one who doesnt question lies doesnt deserve to be american/all we get are lies/all we want are real explainations not the gov covering there ass...the gov needs to be held acountable for gross neglect and war crimes for some..such as cheany..and rummy..

Chris Baldwin, I've never seen ANY of these user names on these boards. There has got to be some way for these kooks to notify each other of what's been blogged on this site. If some one with more internet expertise than me can explain it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.P.S. Notice the minute by minute sequence of these posts. More evidence of collusion to flood this blog with their outrageous, kook theories.

You don't actually believe that I am God do you? Just because I said I am doesn't make it so. I'm sure you would like some proof. You don't believe everything any one tells you, do you? My good man, if you blindly believe everything that you hear on television without doing any research for yourself, then it comes as no suprise to me that you think of those who question the events of 9/11 as whackos or conspiracy theorists. I myself almost joined the military after the attacks that day. Fortunately, I sobered from the propoganda and began to look into the claims. Take a look at the sources of those who are making claims. Why is it that the government just denies all the accusations as apposed to providing the evidence which could easily disprove all the theories. Eighty-four surveilance tapes confiscated. Something about that doesn't add up. Politicians are known to be professional bullshitters, and instead of questioning them your eating their shit with a spoon.

Why dont you do the research before you open your big mouth. You might actually look inteligent.

while were on the subject of 9-11 i just wanted to ask alex how many bodies were recovered from the pentagon and the 93 flight???
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

silverstein admits that tower 7 (office building) third building in the wtc complex..was brought down by demo....after denying it over and over again...finally admits..hmmmmm...of course they couldnt have been planted during the two hours the towers were burning before they fell...sooo they must have been planted before the planes ever hit...that just doesnt add up...no conspiracy FACTS!!!

9/11 was an inside job!!!!! Golf is much of a sport as Bowling and Hopsotch

You won't find many people who question the credibility of our government on a golf course simply because most people on golf courses have no ability of abstract thought, nor do they want to change their thought processes.

In other words, they are close minded rich yuppies who could give a shit less about others and gobble up the bullshit the media feeds them.

yeah alex, it's called social networking sites, and blog rings, when somone decides to make an ass of themselves about 9/11 we all quickly find out about it. You want to talk sh1t you better be prepared for a response.

I just realized that it was an inside job. Thank you for opening my eyes. I was so blind.

people have made plenty of good points and brought up plenty of good facts pointing to the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. what i did see, though, that i had to comment on..was the person who called the 9/11 truth "liberal kookery". as one of many non-liberals in the 9/11 truth movement, not that i'm full of "oohhh liberals are evil, hate them"(nor conservatives), i find it ridiculous that you speak so flagrantly far off from the truth..just to try to keep your buddies and other people who are still supporting the wrongs of this government because they are being kept under the rug by tv evangelists and partisanism, within arms reach..because then you will have no one left. over half of the public before this weekend, already believed something is arriy and over 45 percent already believed it was an inside job. its not about politics..we come from all spectrums..and certainly the democrats have failed US..you as well as me, the american people and the human race..just as much as the republicans have by not giving us a real investigation, by not answering questions that were started by the families of victims, that are still being asked by these families and by many many americans and people around the world and are being ignored by the media and the government...its no less then complicity after the fact for nearly every political leader in the united states who is intentionally passing on this lie to the american people and the world over and over again, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. doesnt matter what party they are from. and it doesnt matter what party we are from, its not about politics and angles, its about the truth. stop helping the lie and join us in asking questions and demanding answers. you only have to look up the facts yourself. each person owes that too themselves, not just those who died, not just those who have died in the two wars sinse, not just those who have been hurt, not are being tortured, not just those who have been getting sick and dying sinse 9/11 because they lied about the air..you owe it to yourself and those directly in your life, as much as anyone. put the golf stick down for a second, put the ball away, and do your duty as a human being and an american and seek....you will find.

One Actor, One Room, Seven Characters: 9/11.

Traumatized by the September 11th attacks, one man struggles to dismantle official history, at the expense of his sanity and even his life. Grappling with multiple realities - and multiple personalities - he must retreat into his mind in pursuit of the truth. In a fictional film about non-fictional events, there is a place where belief and faith will blind you, where nothing is sacred, and to get there all you have to do is ask:

"Who Killed John O'Neill?"

9/11 was a scare tactic, they needed a scape got just like the Soviets needed Lennon. Or like Hitler needed the Jews. Open your eyes. P.S. I didn't know GOD was a blogger...xD GG

pssst...people who don't believe the official government version and have questions about 9/11 are everywhere. maybe even right next door to you. watch what you say, and be afraid. be very afraid.

seriously, though...they are everywhere. the shock of 9/11 is finally wearing off and people are putting two and two together and getting three. you really need to take 90 minutes or so and watch a just released film available on video.google for free) called 9/11: Press for Freedom from some of the 9/11 families. i think you'll find that there needn't be a lot of what you might term "loonie" theories. there's plenty of factual, logical, solid evidence without them. at the very least, nothing was done to stop the attacks, but there's probably a lot more to it. and people plan to uncover the truth.

(oh and i just had to laugh...people who golf are usually pretty grounded? is that why lightning strikes them a lot? and oh, yeah, you have a typo in your third paragraph.)

have a good evening...

9/11 is a coverup. Plain and simple. Educate yourself or join the rest of the sheep. "The Patriot Act has increased the flow of information within our government and it has helped break up terrorist cells in the United States of America. And the United States Congress was right to renew the terrorist act -- the Patriot Act." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. , Sept. 7, 2006

OWN-the-NWO, Thanks for the info. I figured as much. How many liberal,kook imbeciles do you have in the network? A rough estimate will suffice. Please, none of this BS of a vast majority of all Americans.

Instead of tossing around 3rd grade jibber jabber insults Alex, how about prove to us that we are "kooks". Answer the questions and make us look stupid. We'd love that. And you would be an instant hero because nobody in the 9/11 Commission or the Bush Administration has. This is your big chance, Alex. I think I'd rather be called a kook than an imbecile. As a "kook" I can fully articulate the reasons for my beliefs in these areas because I've spent 4 years researching everything I could about it and doing whatever I could to find the answers to continuously increasing about of questions, just have most of these other "kooks" I'm sure. But an imbecile can do nothing but sit back in ignorance and toss hollow insults and Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity rhetoric.

The world trade center would have needed to be demolished one day - one way or another. A demolition on that scale is expensive. So what do you think corporate interests would prefer - A demolition that is fully compensated for by the insurance company by claiming a terrorist attack OR paying for the demolition when it is deemed necessary to destroy the building.

This is just one point. When the whole picture is gathered though, from Bush's connections with the Bin Laden family to the hoodwinking of society into believing Iraq was involved (which we know isn't true cos Bush admits it himself) - it becomes glaringly clear that far too many "coincidences" are involved here. The most logical explanation is likely to be the true one.

Who stood to gain from this 'terrorist' attack? The Bush administration and it's various partners in war profiteering industries? Or some extremists that were to suffer the backlash of massive genocide of their country's people?

This administration is TOXIC (described by Al Gore) and will continue it's destruction of America's constitution, economy and the safety of it's citizens unless steps are taken to shoot them down.

ASK QUESTIONS AND RESEARCH FOR YOURSELF TO MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP USING COMMON SENSE

I love how both conservative and liberal alike try to shove their version of the truth down each others throats which in turn culminates into a session of bashing the blogger and each other. Good job, people. You really do your country service by being total children about the issue.

As for the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing, I remain neutral on the subject until someone can prove that the government was in fact responsible for the WTC buildings collapsing resulting in the deaths of thousands of people. The government did have forewarning of the attacks with the pdb memo from August 2001. I believe the last few paragraphs of that pdb point out the seriousness at the time of a potential terrorist attack.

I think canada would be ashamed if they knew you were claiming yourself as an honorary citizen. Don't invite yourself where you don't belong. Open your mind outside of yourself for a little bit, and read up on the evidence that is available right before your eyes.

Prick.

Below I have provided an excerpt from the Guardian (education news) that you obviously missed. Educate yourself before you speak of matters of which you are obviously not very well familiarized with.
"Who Really Blew Up the Twin Towers"
---It is impossible, says Jones, for the towers to have collapsed from the collision of two aeroplanes, as jet fuel doesn't burn at temperatures hot enough to melt steel beams. The horizontal puffs of smoke - squibs - emitted during the collapse of the towers are indicative of controlled implosions on lower floors. The scholars have collected eyewitness accounts of flashes and loud explosions immediately before the fall.

The twin towers must, they say, have been brought down by explosives - hence the container of dust on Jones's desk, sent to him unsolicited by a woman living in lower Manhattan. He is using X-ray fluorescents to test it for explosive materials.

What's more, the nearby World Trade Centre 7 also collapsed later that afternoon. The building had not been hit by a plane, only damaged by fire. WTC 7 housed a clandestine CIA station, which the scholars believe was the command centre for the planning of 9/11.

___________________________________________________________________
Another excerpt for you if the first one was too complicated for you to understand......



---Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same. Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass). Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same, but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were 90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.

In combustion science, there are three basic types of flames, namely, a jet burner, a pre-mixed flame, and a diffuse flame. A jet burner generally involves mixing the fuel and the oxidant in nearly stoichiometric proportions and igniting the mixture in a constant-volume chamber. Since the combustion products cannot expand in the constant-volume chamber, they exit the chamber as a very high velocity, fully combusted, jet. This is what occurs in a jet engine, and this is the flame type that generates the most intense heat.

In a pre-mixed flame, the same nearly stoichiometric mixture is ignited as it exits a nozzle, under constant pressure conditions. It does not attain the flame velocities of a jet burner. An oxyacetylene torch or a Bunsen burner is a pre-mixed flame.

In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition, but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.




So, this massive heat (nonexistant) was able to melt steel but leave the paperwork belonging to the hijackers intact?
Explain this one to me, please, since you, apparently, are so well informed.

Funny how you conservative halfwit sheeple keep regurgitating the same GOP spindoctor myths... the largest being that the 9/11 truth movement people are all liberal kooks. You haven't a clue because you listen to a few corrupt mediocre minded pundits who hand you a phrase and you run with it without bothering to look any further into whether its true or not. I've got news for you. Most 9/11 truth people are actually rightwing leaning, christians. But I guess that doesn't fit into that nice little safe box of thinking or line of propaganda you're working. It probably bothers you that even conservatives are turning against Bush and his administration of liars and cheats. If you could just hang it on liberals or the left that would be convenient. But this is all beyond your comprehension. Better get used to it... there's more to come.

Are these people merely "conspiracy nuts"? Are they "with the terrorists" as George Bush claims?

Colonel Ronald D. Ray (U.S. Marine Corps)
Bill Christison (CIA)
Ray McGovern (CIA)
Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col. (United States Air Force)
Morgan O. Reynolds (US Government)
Paul Craig Roberts (US Government)
Andreas Von Buelow (German Government)
General L