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37 comments

Comment from: John D [Visitor]
The USGA/PGA should take a lesson here. When the kids see the "pro's" do anything, they are quick to copy the "bad etiquette". Remember a few years ago when D.L. III hit a sprinkler heads with his club? Well it wasn't but 2 weeks later and I witnessed a younster perfoming the same act. I think not only a fine should be levied but a suspension should follow. And not a suspension from a "trivial" outing, but maybe something equal to Buick Open.
2005-09-07 @ 05:27
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Oh, that's just what we need ... let's popularize unprofessional behavior!! How does childish displays of temper equate to charisma? Funny, but I thought Arnold Palmer had charisma, not Tommy Bolt. How about this instead ... start publicizing the fines so these guys have to answer to questions about it. And while we're at it, let's put in place some formula to increase the fines to a significant level. Or better yet, after so many fines in a given period of time, the player is dq'd from the next Major that he/she qualifies for. But if these bad actors are treated like prima donnas, guess what will happen?
2005-09-07 @ 08:51
Comment from: Mike W [Visitor]
Let's get some perspective here folks. He kicked a sign, and some of you are calling for suspensions because of what the kid's might think? What would you have fined Palmer, Nicklaus et al. that smoked, on TV no less, during tournaments? Should they be fined and suspended as well? I believe that is is the parents role to teach the children that "childish" behavior is not acceptable from ADULTS! Those that want to punish the athlete for not being a "role model" need to brush up on their own parenting skills.
2005-09-07 @ 09:20
Comment from: jp [Visitor]
I totally agree. Robots are out.

Furthermore, having played the game since I was 7, I never needed any "role model" to teach me to swear, hit signs or throw a few clubs and break a few shafts.

I have never been in jail since, I eventually became more moderate, and I enjoy real reactions from the pros on tv (however rare that is).

You are absolutely right, let's keep it real.

JP
2005-09-07 @ 11:39
Comment from: Ben Hog-end [Visitor]
Doug...from what I can gather, you are the only blogger on this site with a brain. And I promise you, I'll be back! Carry on, my man.
2005-09-07 @ 12:00
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
If a player wants to snap a club over his knee, I'm ok with that because it's their own property and then he/she has to finish the round with one less club. That's just plain stupid. But destroying sponsors signs or abusing course property should be discouraged. I'm sure the sponsor & host course would agree. As far as cursing, well, that's just a lack of common decency since the players are in such close proximity to the crowd. Don't forget the crowd not only includes children but also grandparents and others who are offended by such behavior. If I'm the PGA Tour, I think I'd want to minimize the f-bombs, et al.
2005-09-07 @ 15:16
Comment from: John McG [Visitor]
I suspect the pros and cons posted here reflect a generation gap. Can't prove it, but I bet those against Sergio's histrionics are older and revere a time when subdued behavior was expected in gentlemanly competition. ("Act like you've done it once or twice before," said coach Lombardi.)Those who have no problem with Garcia probably have never seen a football game where players didn't dance in the end zone; to them it's part of the new "spirit of competition." But I could be wrong.
2005-09-14 @ 10:01
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
John M - I think you are absolutly correct. I cringe at the thought "When after a putt is made, the players do the Ikky Shuffle"
2005-09-15 @ 17:24
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
It's one thing to express your personality. But it's quite another to destroy other's property or offend the paying general public. You gotta draw the line somewhere.
2005-09-16 @ 13:39
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Shanks,

I admire someone who can be cool and collected on the golf course, especially under adverse circumstances. But even the best of us lose it once in a while.

I saw the incident on TV. He kicked a sign in frustration. Walk a mile in his shoes. Sergio had found out the evening previous that a close friend had died.

I think he is entitled to a little frustration. He is human, after all. Good axiom to live by: Judge others by their intent, not their actions. Judge yourself by your actions, not your intent.
2005-09-24 @ 08:10
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
I'd have to bet that if you asked Sergio now, he'd say he shouldn't have done that and the fine was warranted. While an offense may be understandable, it doesn't make it right.

If this was a rarity for Sergio, then it's no big deal. He'll pay the small fine and be done with it. But if it turns out he's an habitual offender, then it should be dealt with more severely. I'm pretty sure that the Tour doesn't want these kinds of things as part of their image.

2005-09-28 @ 08:38
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Give him a break. Relax. Exercise a little compassion. Everyone can't be a cool, calm and collected robot. We have enough of them on tour. Plus, Sergio is still young. He has some growing to do. Give him that chance.

Not everything in this world is black or white. A little understanding and a verbal warning would have been warranted.

The tour needs a more appealing emotional image anyway.
2005-09-30 @ 14:19
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Kicking signs is appealing? Sorry, but we're definitely on different pages.
2005-10-03 @ 06:04
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Yes, kicking A sign, (not signS) once in a while, is more entertaining than watching Retief make a birdie, par, bogey or worse. Who can tell what he scores by looking at him? Great talent. Personality of a doorknob on the golf course. Maybe he is a great and dynamic guy off the course, but who knows? What does he spell? BORING. All of these emotional outbursts show that even these guys are human, which makes it more fun to watch. Otherwise, the bland tour you support is better for sleep than an Rx of Ambien. Snooooooooozzzz!

2005-10-04 @ 18:26
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
There are other ways to show emotion and/or personality than the disrespectful act of kicking the sponsors' signs. But apparently - even though these golf telecasts are BORING - you are still watching.
2005-10-05 @ 08:16
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Thanks, Shanks.

Maybe the next time Tiger blocks a drive, he can give a raspberry to the camera. OOOOOOHHHHHHH!! There's some emotion.

You need to get out a little more, dude.
2005-10-05 @ 20:29
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]

Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, you will still watch the telecasts despite the lack of hissy-fits. The game is bigger than you can imagine if you think there's a need for pro rasslin's histrionics.
2005-10-06 @ 08:49
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Shanks,

Again, you miss the point. Whether I watch is immaterial. I am an accomplished player who can appreciate shot-making, quality plays, etc. Its not whether or not you or I watch, it's whether or not golf gains greater mass appeal.

To many, golf is like watching soccer, or "football" as far as I can tell what you may call it. Loved playing the game, but BOOOORRRINNNGG to watch.

Bowling and poker have better viewing appeal than golf right now. That's not good.

I liken watching golf to watching tennis. Used to be great to watch McEnroe/Connors/Nastase. Used to be fun. Now, men's tennis is a bore to watch. No good drama. I watch the women's tennis not only for the rivalry (and cat fights), but for the hot women.

Right now, I am finding womens golf more exciting than the men. Not from a shotmaking perspective, but there is some excitement and some nice things to look at.

One question: Who is more exciting to watch, Daly or Sluman? I rest my case.
2005-10-06 @ 23:37
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
The point I was trying to make is that you say it's too boring to watch, yet you still watch. So that is not immaterial.

Fact is, golf will never gain a seriously broader mass appeal because it is expensive, it is too hard for most people and it requires a large investment of time every time you play. Golf only appeals to a certain type of person, one who enjoys a personal challenge. And of those, only a certain percentage will stick with it because, face it, who wants to spend a lot of money & time on a regular basis just to be awful at something?

I do get what you're saying about the personalities. I just don't agree that there is a need for petulant behavior in this game. Tiger's not bashful about expressing himself and so are some others like Garcia. Most of the time Tiger is terrific with the crowds with the fist-pumping, high-fives and emotional reations to shots. That's a big part of his cross-over appeal. But the Tour's dirty little secret is that Tiger is also the most fined player - by a long shot. Do you hear him complaining about it? No, because he knows he shouldn't do some of those things he does.

As far as watching Daly, he's fun sometimes. He's also a total embarrassment sometimes - and the examples are many. Talk about wasted talent. And he ain't exactly a role model for ANY golfer for when the going gets tough. He just gives up about 5 times a year & plays extremely fast to get the round over. Very unprofessional. That's why he's never been a captains choice for the Ryder Cup. A better comparison than Sluman would be Mickelson. They've both won 2 majors now and Phil's not a sign-kicker. Give me Mickelson, every time.
2005-10-07 @ 09:29
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Shanks,

1. The growth of golf is not solely determined upon cost. Popularity of sport is largely determined upon star personalities. Look at the sports that are growing: the NFL (Vick, McNabb, TO), the NBA (LeBron, Kobe, Iverson). Some of those listed above are "bad boys."

Now let's look at sports that have dropped off, or are dropping off the radar:
Men's Tennis and the NHL. Are stars from these sports as easy to recall as stars for the NBA or NFL? No longer. In men's tennis, they used to be. The NHL was that way as well. Both are great sports, but both suffer from lack of marketable personalities. League officials admit that one of the major shortcomings facing the NHL is the inability to properly market its stars. I can name more personalities from the Poker Tour than I can from the NHL and the ATP combined. That's a problem.

2. Petulant behavior shows we are human, and adds a different element. I agree, I don't want to see this as a major theme, but it adds an element to make some of these guys more human, and hence, more watchable. Once in a while, I like to see some of these guys hit a lousy shot under pressure and get upset, because I can relate to some small degree what they go through, and how angry it can make you.

3. Tiger does complain about his fines. The reason you don't hear more about it more is that the PGA will levy additional fines for speaking out against PGA tour policies, not because of some altruistic sentiment that he shouldn't yell expletives after a shot. He also complains that he should benefit financially from the incremental revenue gains he believes he generates for the tour. What draws people to Tiger? Ability + Charisma = Personality. His participation in a tour event increases viewership, and helps grow the sport.

4. Daly - Whether you like the guy or think he sqanders talent is a separate issue. Can he be "petulant"? Yes. But that is exactly what endears him to many, because they can identify with him. And with all of the other stuff that has happened in his life, it's like watching a train wreck. Good or bad, people like to watch. This week's tournament was much better to watch BECAUSE of the Tiger/Daly duel. Would it have been as interesting if it was Tiger/Appleby? Don't think so.

5. Daly or Sluman was the original question. By changing the player from Sluman to Mickelson, you make my point. Mickelson has personality, and thus appeal. Lefty kids will try to emulate Phil, and adults will root him on. Especially the NY'ers. Tell me the game didn't grow in the NY area as a result of his participation in the Open at Bethpage a couple of years ago and this year's PGA. He was the loveable loser, who made good. He shows emotion on the course. Easy to tell a good shot from a bad one with Phil.

People play the game for all sorts of reasons, not just for the personal challenge. People like to emulate stars. Stars must have personality. How many kids are trying to emulate Retief? Not many. How many try to emulate Daly? Alot. So personlity, even petulant ones at times, are good for the game in the longrun.
2005-10-10 @ 04:56
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
You say Mickelson has personality but yet he's not a sign-kicker. I picked him for comparison because his game is a match for Daly's. (Sluman just doesn't have the game to warrant a comparison.) I'd also MUCH prefer to follow Goosen than Daly because one thing I despise is a quitter and the immature Daly does this routinely.

I watch top quality golfers to watch them play shots, not to see watch their emotional response when they hit a bad one. I expect them to act like an adult and accept that stuff without acting like a crybaby. I also think there should be behavior restrictions but apparently you don't. The PGA Tour Policy Board as well as golf organizations throughout the world agree with me.
2005-10-10 @ 08:53
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Again, you fail to identify the general public in your assumptions. You are only addressing what YOU would rather see.

You may watch to see quality golfers play quality shots, but growth of the game will come from recreational golfers and from attracting new people to the game. These people would much prefer to watch Daly than Goosen.

I am glad you speak for the PGA Tour Policy Board and other organizations. All in all, I would think the PGA Tour appreciates the Garcia's and the Daly's as much, if not more, than the Goosen's and the Maggert's of the Tour. These guys give the Tour the spark it needs to grow the game beyond the pretentious golf snob core. And there is nothing more I despise than a golf snob.
2005-10-11 @ 16:41
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Ahhhhh, I get it. You must be the one yelling You-da-man after a pro gets a tee shot airborne.

I don't speak for golf's organizations ... their rules do. And the PGA fines players for egregious breaks in etiquette. So what does that tell you what they think about sign-kicking et al? Puh-lease, I think even you have to realize that you're spitting into the wind on this argument.

As far as growing the game, Tiger has brought the general public. Turns out that (USGA data) while record numbers have started playing golf in the last 8 years, the overall number of golfers has not increased. Why do you think that is???? It all goes back to what I said a few posts ago .... game is too hard, too long & too costly for most people. Always has been, always will be.
2005-10-12 @ 09:09
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Shanks,

Nope, not a "you-da-man" guy, but I'd rather hear that than the whinings of an uptight, anal, elitist during the course of play.

I dread it when only 3 show up, and my group gets stuck with someone like you with the personality of a doorknob.

With an attitude like yours, it's people like you that drive new players from the game. It's not that the game is too hard, it's that carrying on such an elitist philosophy keeps this sport from reaching more diverse audience. Congrats. Maybe we can bring back hickory shafts and featheries while you're at it.





2005-10-12 @ 19:38
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Actually, you'd probably enjoy playing with me. I'm a solid player and enjoy joking around. I don't belong to a country club and play public courses almost exclusively. I do try to be courteous to my playing companions. I repair divots and ballmarks. If anybody wants to play Winter rules in the Summer, I wouldn't complain - even though I prefer to play it down all the time. My regular companions definitely enjoy a few cocktails during the round. I don't drink anymore so I'm always the designated driver - making me the number one draft choice for golf trips.

I just happen to think there should be standards of behavior during competitive rounds of golf. All of golf's governing bodies agree with that. And I have an opinion on the growth of the game which is supported by the latest available research. So this makes me a snob? Quite the contrary, my man. It is you who are throwing stones and you should watch out for falling glass.

2005-10-13 @ 09:04
Comment from: David Doig [Visitor]
back to Sergio - it appears that all of his fines have been by the European Tour - including one on the eve of the first round at The Open - because he'd criticized the greens at Loch Lomond - the previous week! The timing of the fine was terrible and I suspect that the European Tour authorities have it in for Sergio because he plays most of his golf in the States - and the same goes for the British Media where Sergio doesn't get nearly so good a press as he does in The States - with exceptions naturally.
2005-10-15 @ 15:20
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
I like Sergio a lot. Hadn't heard about Loch Lomond fine but it wouldn't be the first time a player got fined for criticism. Just here in the States they NEVER disclose that stuff.
2005-10-17 @ 09:49
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
Shanks,

Most would agree that standards of behavior are in order. I just think yours are too stringent.

Your opinions on the growth of the game are shared by many. I think your ideas should encompass a little more than they do. No doubt, the game still has a stodgy image, and your expressed feelings are prevalent in the minds of many. We don't make newcomers welcome to the game. The PGA Policies add to that.

So, Sergio kicked a sign. BFD. JD quits on a round once in a while. Who in your foursome hasn't done that, on occasion? Give them a break. These guys are people, too.
2005-10-17 @ 17:26
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
No matter where they draw the line, there will always be some who cross over. It's just human nature.

I believe in the etiquette and think it's worth preserving for the future of the game. And I'm pretty sure that if I were a sponsor, I wouldn't want the players kicking my signs.
2005-10-18 @ 14:59
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Sergio might be a serial sign-kicker. On Saturday at Mallorca, he hit a 4/5 iron shot into the par 3 18th that was nearly perfect but caught a slope and spun back down to the front of the green, 30-40 feet away from the flag. So he goes over to the car (next to the tee for a hole-in-one) and punches the window. Then he takes his club and bangs on one of the sponsors signs. That's just b.s. look-at-me childish behavior. No wonder he gets fined a lot. Could you imagine what he'd do if they never took corrective action?
2005-10-24 @ 12:03
Comment from: Nirman [Visitor]
You say Mickelson has personality but yet he's not a sign-kicker. I picked him for comparison because his game is a match for Daly's. (Sluman just doesn't have the game to warrant a comparison.) I'd also MUCH prefer to follow Goosen than Daly because one thing I despise is a quitter and the immature Daly does this routinely.

I watch top quality golfers to watch them play shots, not to see watch their emotional response when they hit a bad one. I expect them to act like an adult and accept that stuff without acting like a crybaby. I also think there should be behavior restrictions but apparently you don't. The PGA Tour Policy Board as well as golf organizations throughout the world agree with me.
2005-10-31 @ 21:22
Comment from: Denver Player [Visitor]
If I hit a perfect shot that chewed back that far, I would have put my five iron THROUGH the window.

If I have the $$ that Sergio has, I would have opened my wallet and laid five Franklins on the front seat.

Now THAT would have made great TV!
2005-11-02 @ 18:37
Comment from: Shanks [Visitor]
Hehehe ......
2005-11-04 @ 08:05
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
A Spaniard who shows emotion, gosh I've never seen that before. I just thought he was cleaning the turf out of his shoe. I’m appalled by the bad behavior.

When Sergio is playing in Europe he must understand that standards of conduct and laws are different. If he were in France, an arrest for assault and battery would have been forthcoming after an incident with a sign.

Since the Euros have to bus homeless people in to fill the stands/galleries at European events. The sponsors have become gods and the European Tour has gone way past kissing their butts to a position of having their heads all the way up the sponsor's butt to the shoulders. Was it an Omega sign he kicked? I'm sure it was.

Was there a lawsuit filed after Sergio complained about the greens? Can you imagine the emotional distress he caused the head greens keeper? I’m sure he is therapy at a Swiss Clinic as I write this.

The next time Monty tosses a club 30 yards in the general direction of his bag I expect a fine to be levied immediately.

2006-01-04 @ 13:22
Comment from: Nick [Visitor]
I would rather see Sergio take the club that he just used to hit it into the woods, close the face about 30 degrees and swing it at his shin. Then we could see how much character he really has. Besides, did the guy who paid thousands for that sign miss the shot, or was it Sergio?? Take a little responsability for your character, or lack thereof...
2006-01-24 @ 19:51
Comment from: Bad Bill [Visitor]
I watch golf on TV for the pleasure of witnessing (and learning from) the skill of the majority of the players.

If I want to see tantrums,brawls and brats I'll watch the NBA or WWF 'RAW'.

Golf was, is and always will be a gentlemen's game.

Leave it the hell alone !
2006-02-01 @ 11:34
Comment from: Fred [Visitor]
i disagree he is a good guy and you should know that.
2006-03-20 @ 11:25

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