Hi Jennifer:

Hope you are enjoying golf in my hometown of Hawaii! Love the golf courses there (even if they are a little windy in the afternoons).

Also refreshing to read some opinions that are not purposefully inflamatory, unlike your buddy Chris Baldwin.

I think Michelle Wie is great for golf. I know a lot of people that have tuned in to the LPGA, just to watch her, and ended up liking the women's game at the end of the day.

I have been watching Michelle play for almost 3 1/2 years now. Do you know what I think is amazing? When I watch her play, she makes it look so easy that it looks like she is playing "sub-optimally" -- i mean, it always looks like she could be doing something a little better. Lately it has been her putting. When another golfer has a good round, it really looks like they are shooting "lights out", but for Michelle, it always looks like she is leaving a few shots on the course. And yet, she still ends up on the leaderboard time after time -- if you look at her record, she is the most consistent golfer next to Annika this year. Not bad for a 15-year old highschool junior (to be). If she ever starts gettng hot with the putter, she will be SCARY SCARY good. Can't wait for that to happen! Then Chris Baldwin can find some other adolescent girl to trash in order to bolster his masculinity (or lack thereof).

Aloha!

Aloha to you, AkamaiOkole--
thanks for your comment! Yeah, I love the golf here too.
Would you be interested in listing some of your favorite courses here in Hawaii? I'd love to hear your take on which to play/avoid.

4 Top 10s for Michelle Wie? True, but that understates her sucess. All four were Top 5s: a 2, two T2s(two way), and the latest two way T3. Except for her first T2 at SBS all were against strong fields outside her home state. Add in two more Top 20s, and a worst finish at a T23 that included Annika at the US Open.

Thanks for not posting stupid remarks just to provoke responses, like some other writers on this site. I have followed Michelle wie's career closely ever since she qualified for the US Woman's Amateur when she was 10. When she was 11, she won 2 of the 3 major women's tournaments in Hawaii. I took a video of her then almost driving the 320 yd 10th hole. Granted, it is slightly downslope and downwind. But she also hit her drive on the 18th hole, about 270 yds. The 18th is right next to the 10th but in the opposite direction. How far did Tiger hit his drives when he was 11? I think it is significant that only Annika has a winning record against Michelle in the events Michelle played, 3-2-1.

Hi Jennifer,
There are alot of great courses on the neighbor islands but the courses on Oahu that I recommend are the following: Ko Olina, Kuilima (Palmer designed course), Koolau (only if you want the ultimate challenge, hardest rated course in nation), if you can get on military courses, they're all pretty decent, Hikam and Kaneohe Clipper standout.

And oh yeah, for those replying, don't forget the article was about Jeong Jang, not Michelle Wie... **smile**

Yes, Michelle has done remarkably, but let's not forget who just won a major wire-to-wire...

Take a look at the MMD (Majors Measuring Device) utilized with scientific precision at the Ron.Mon blog to confirm that Wie is a few strokes stronger than her closest young rival, the Pink Panther.

Michelle Wie proved once again that she belongs in the LPGA field. Just like Jennifer Capriati proved at the young age of 14 that she belonged in the WTA field. They are/were both young, female athletic phenoms. On that there is no disagreement.

However, just as Capriati's success in the female ranks provided no indications concerning her ability to compete with her male counterparts, so does Michelle's. Michelle is awesome and deserves to be considered as one of the top female golfers in the world. It's the 'she can play with the men' hype that grates on some people, myself included. I think it would be cool if she could; I just hate the hype and speculation that she definately can, when she has done absolutely nothing yet to indicate that she will be able to do so. What a let down it's going to be for many people if she is 'only' able to be a dominant female golfer.

The fact of the matter is, if she either came out with the intention to play only with the women OR she went through Q school or Monday qualifying to play with the men and succeeded; there would be no disagreement about her at this point and she would be enjoying near unanimous support and praise (except maybe from the severely bigoted crowd). But she hasn't done that. She has accepted sponsor's exemptions and the media has hyped her to no end. That is the part that rubs some people the wrong way. And just because someone has a negative feeling or qualifies their praise of Michelle, does not mean they are a racist, bigoted idiot. There is some validity to their position.

What I would love to see is her, or some other female golfer, go to Q school and actually qualify for the tour. That would be awesome.

Arnie,reasonable criticism. But with all due respect, Michelle isn't the first person trying to earn PGA membership through Sponser's exemption (if this is really what she was trying or will)?

Phil Michelson did by winning atournament as a amateur. Tiger did through exemption.

If and when Michelle truns pro on LPGA, i kind of expect that she will try to earn her LPGA memberhsip card again through sponser's exemption since LPGA probably won't allow her membership out right till her 18th birthday (LPGA will probably cross theri finger hoping that she will get full exemption nonmembership by winning a tournament. That way they can save their face and Michelle earn membership status.).

So if it is OK to earn a card through sponser's exemption on LPGA, why not on PGA?

I can understand your point on principal. But earning a card through sponser's exemption was not that unusual.

I was going to write this response to the wie knockers under Baldwins column but thought better of it. Maybe he will stop writing his stupid articles if people stop responding to them.
Anyway if Michelle Wie was a professional and the ladies had world rankings she would probably be no2 by now.
If you take the average finishing position of the 4 majors plus the Evian Masters (considered the fifth major) I think you will find that Michelle is second behind Annika by half a position.
Absolutely amazing.
Alan

June, I agree with you and I wasn't intending to rip on Wie for accepting sponsor's exemptions. Less qualified people than her get them every week and I don't know her for taking them. I just think it would have been really cool if she actually qualified. Sponsor's exemptions are one of the things that keeps golf from truly being a 'sport', but that's another whole discussion.

The issue I was trying to communicate is the real reason that Wie is getting so much press is the argument that she can compete with the men. On that issue, there is zero evidence that she can today or will ever be able to do so. Truly 'compete', that is, not 'not come in last in a tournament with Nationwide caliber guys'.

Look at it this way, (as I'm sure Michele has), Annika is possibly the best female golfer who has ever lived and she has been dominating the women's tour for a while now. And guess what? Nobody cares. Outside of a very small segment of the golfing populace, nobody cares about women's golf at this point. If Annika can't generate any interest in herself, how can Wie possibly do so? The answer is she can't, unless she plays the 'I want to play on the PGA Tour' card. If she came out with the sole intention of playing the LPGA, people would have been amazed at the 15 year old's ability at such a young age, and then they would have moved on. But the hype machine has created this monster that has to be fed by the PGA Tour fuel. Those of us who are of the opinion that Michelle competing on the PGA Tour is a total fantasy thereby view her current popularity as mostly hype. Not because she's not a phenomenally talented female golfer, she is. But because that is all she is, until she proves otherwise. And most male golf fans don't have any interest in watching the Nationwide tour guys play golf, much less have any appetite for watching the women play. No offense and I'm not trying to be sexist. Just looking for the highest entertainment value.

Sorry Arnie. People don't watch Wie because she wants to compete with men. They watch her because she is 15 and is probably the second best woman golfer in the world. She has possibly the best swing in golf and has personality, something severely lacking in Annika.
It's truely amazing that people still don't understand what Wie has accomplished. She will have more impact than Tiger, if she hasn't already.
Alan

Arnie, your facts are incorrect, though part of what you say is very true. I think Alan has it right, in part - Wie would be a phenom and draw a lot of attention even if she were only playing LPGA events and the like, because she really does appear to be, right now at the age of 15, one of the very best women's golfers out there. As a poster on Kiel's very funny blog mentions, if there were World Rankings for the women Michelle might very well be #2 behind Annika right now, depending on the formula. And looking at cumulative finish in the five "majors" (including the Evian) Michelle comes in behind only Annika, and not by much there!

But you are correct Arnie, because she plays with the men she gets much, much more attention. No doubt about it. I commented on that in an early posting on one of Jennifer's blogs. Her media draw is directly related to her competing with the men.

But that's where you drift away, and your facts become fiction. See, she IS competing with the men, though you claim she is not. She did NOT come in dead last at a Nationwide Tour event and call it a day. She played in the PGA Tour's John Deere, which has a weak PGA field (but better than a Nationwide field by far), and she missed the cut by ONE STROKE! She also did what you say she should, and flat out qualified for the Men's Publinx, then played well enough to make the top 64 in stroke play, and then played well enough to win three matches before losing in the quarterfinals to the eventual champion. In what way is that not competing with the men? She is only 15 and she is playing with the best male amateurs and showing she definitely belongs, and also played with male pros in a PGA event and was one lipped put from making the weekend! Again, at 15! Annika got hammered when she tried to step up to the PGA level, by contrast, because her game is actually less suited to play against the men than Michelle's, even though Annika's total game is better than Wie's.

Wie is a phenom, and would be a draw no matter what. But COMPETING with the men, as she has and will continue to do, definitely pushes her to a much higher level as far as media darling is concerned. And shouldn't it? She is a role model for every young girl out there: don't listen to the naysayers, don't believe that you can't do it just because you are a girl. Try your best, and play against the best, and see how good you can be.

(And that's why Baldwin's blog is so damn offensive - I have a little girl, and I don't want Baldwins out there telling her she can't be the best just because she's not male!)

on the PGA tour. But now that you brought it up, it definately rings true. Many men are threatened by the idea the women are actually superior
in regards to half of all human skills
(yes I am presuming that men and women are equals but have different speciality skills). I see no reason that a women (with a 300 yard game) will be able to compete against the men. I often think of pool when I think of sports where men and women could be equal but suprisingly enough we never see women compete against the men in pool. (since I have never noticed the men play pool on tv but have seen the same familiar women play often makes me think that perhaps the money is better for the women, NOT (but perhaps should be)

And even if Michelle never wins a tournament, she still has made (and is still making) a mark on the LPGA by making golf cool and interesting to young girls which will add thousands of competative women to LPGA in the years to come.

Sorry Alan--the fact that Michelle competes against men ia a big part of the reason people watch Wie. Annika got more attention for missing the cut at the Colonial than for going after the grand slam this year.

As far as hype is concerned, that is what big time sports is all about--can you think of any other reason why people would care about grown men playing children's games like baseball? The WORLD SERIES? The SUPER BOWL?

But Michelle Wie competing on the PGA a total fantasy? Hardly. Look how close she has come to making the cut as a 14 and 15 year old AMATEUR. Let's suppose she turns pro at 16 with a multimillion dollar Nike endorsement. Suddenly instead of the Wie's operating on a shoestring budget, they can match the money Tiger pays his caddy. This would be a full time job working with Michelle and scouting maybe a dozen golf courses a year until Michelle graduates from high school. Instead having her father as caddy, she would have a caddying situation second to none in the world of golf. Add to that another years's matuurity at 16 and 2 more at 17 and there would be dramatic improvement. If she then takes up golf full time at 18 watch out. She could totally dominate LPGA events, and routinely make PGA cuts. PGA wins could follow in a few years.

WIE'S POPULARITY AND GREAT PRESS COVERAGE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE FACT SHE IS SIX FEET TALL, STATUESQUE, AND HAS A PICTURE PERFECT SWING. SAD TO SAY, BUT IF SHE WERE 5 FOOT TALL, OVERWEIGHT AND HAD A AWKWARD SWING HER CELEBRITY WOULD BE SEVERLY DIMINISHED.

Arnie, I believe that you have a few valid points about Michelle but your emphasis on Q-School or Monday Qualifying does not seem all that important. Although Michelle has missed the cuts at 3 PGA events (2004 & 2005 Sony Open and the 2005 JDC) so far, she did finish ahead of many of the touring pros in those events. You must agree that many of those "many" were there because of Q-School or Monday Qualifying. Seems like a waste of time to go to Q-School if you consistently beat Q-School qualified pros. Isn't the "exemption route" what Tiger did when he turned pro in 1996? Just wondering?

Ahh Soo - Does that mean that if I shoot a 76, I could forego Q-School, since that would have beat many pro scores as well?

This thread is wandering. I'll respond to one point. The 'competing' with the men point. First, I must say that I consider anyone who misses the cut in an event is, by definition, not competitive. And yes, there are plenty of men out there that are 'not competitive' and in my opinion should be back at their local muni working the counter. My point was that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of talented young men (and women) in this country that could shoot low enough to not come in last at a men's PGA tournament. But I don't consider that 'competing' and just by their coming in mid pack, I would not conclude that they one day could do so, which is what everyone is doing with Michelle.

What clinches the hype thing for me is the fact that nobody is so 'dead sure' that all of these people that have beaten her, some repeatedly, are capable of competing on the PGA tour. So why are we so sure Michelle can? Annika couldn't do it and still can't, neither do I think Paula or Morgan or Lorena or Natalie or any of the other women on tour could do it either. Is the fact that Michelle is 2-3 years younger the only thing you're going on? Geez, we're not even sure Ryan Moore can compete on the PGA tour and he hits is longer than Michelle, has a better short game, and won just about everything there is to win in amateur golf.

I'm a fan and I hope she does the most she possibly can with her talent. If she competes with the men, and in doing so changes the game of golf forever, I think that would be awesome. But let's just wait and see. This country is just so full of media hype and style over substance, that I hope you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical.

The

The one reason Wie may be able to compete on the PGA and not Paula and Morgan etc is her length of the tee.
Simple!!
Alan

Length? Hank Kuehne bombs it off the tee a heck of a lot farther than Wie and until recently, he hadn't seen the north side of a cut line much for a long time.

Also, I'd be curious to see what her AVERAGE driving stats in tournaments has been. I know she's capable of hitting it 300 at times, but in the last tournament I saw stats for, her average driving distance was slightly below Annika's. And Annika is not know for being a bomber.

No need to be curious. I looked it up. At the John Deere Classic, Michelle's average driving distance was 277.5 and 265.3 in the first two rounds, respecitvely, for an average of around 271.5. That would put her 1 yard below Fred Funk's average of 272.4 for the tournament, and we know what a bomber he is...

Could it possibly be that the media has latched on to the fact that she CAN launch it 310 'once in a while' and, dare I say, hyped her distance a bit?

Did we all take stupid pills and forget that the 'competitive' men can launch it in the neighborhood of 340+ 'once in a while' and AVERAGE over 300 off the tee?

Arnie,

I don't have any problem with what you are saying - you are right, there are plenty of young players that show promise each year, and only a few end up being long time pros, let alone top notch pros.

What is driving the Michelle whirlwind is the fact that, like all young prodigies, she stirs the imagination. Who knew if Tiger would end up being all that great a golfer? But his potential had people writing articles and raving about him from a very young age - because the possibility that something special was about to happen was worth being excited about.

And isn't that what it's about for all of us fans and viewers? Watching for the amazing, the Ruthian feats, the legendary accomplishments. Of course, for every Tiger there are a dozen Eric Lindros or Junior Griffey type players, hailed as "the next great player" who turn out to be very good, but not spectacular. And there are hundreds of failures, like Todd Marinovich and countless others, most whose names are lost to time and the next "great one" coming along.

But watching them and seeing them develop and seeing what they accomplish at such a young age and thinking about their possibilities...that's what makes being a fan interesting. And even when they fail, they often inspire many to try and reach for more than they thought they could do.

Michelle may end up being a let down (by which I mean a servicable LPGA pro, at worst - less than that would be an incredible implosion on her part at this point), or she may be very, very good but not incredible (top notch LPGA player for many years). But she is showing that at only 15 years of age she is already willing to go for something more than any female golfer has ever accomplished, and THAT is what captures the imagination and creates the whirlwind that follows her. Annika put her tow over the line, and then pulled back to dominate more familiar territory. I am not saying that Annika should be playing PGA events all the time, but Michelle is pushing that frontier much harder than Annika at this point.

I hope she succeeds, but even if she doesn't, I applaud her for trying to go for something that most tell her is impossible or beyond her capabilities. Even if she fails to achieve the very highest goals she sets out for, she will know that she gave it her all - and she will likely blaze a path for the next phenom to try to climb to the higher rung.

Candace, I agree with you and, believe it or not, I am a fan of Michelle Wie, but more for what she can do to make the LPGA tour relevant and interesting that what she can do on the PGA Tour.

Back to Alan's comment, one more statistic. Michelle's average driving distance at the Sony Open? 261 yards. That's 31 behind the winner, Vijay, and 15 behind the aforementioned Fred Funk. She may be long by 15-year-old-girl-playing-on-the-LPGA standards, but by PGA Tour standards she'd be considered a short hitter.

But her PGA tour aspirations are what make her more interesting than Creamer or Pressel or the others. That's what captures the imagination, a woman competing (not just playing) at the PGA level. I am very interested in what she does at the LPGA level, but it's the prospect that she may become a PGA player someday, the first woman to do so, that makes her so compelling.

Arnie--that's her average driving distance--which can be misleading and she's averaged 290 at other tournaments.

She drove the ball 310 at the John Deere, and she's hit a golf ball 300 yards plus many times....

John,

What?! Average driving distance is misleading? It's what matters. If you want to compare her to PGA touring pros, you need to compare apples to apples. And the best method is average driving distance, not just her one or two bombs. Either way you need to compare apples to apples. The top PGA pros all have average driving distances in the upper 200's to lower 300's and their long drives are routinely in the 320-340 range. Michelle Wie is well down in distance by all of those measures, about 10% it appears. Which likely means two clubs on the approaches.

I'm not sure where you're getting a 290 average you quote, since there doesn't appear to be any published statistics for her outside of the PGA Tour stuff. But if it were true, I'm guessing it would be an LPGA event where there is less penalty for missing the fairway. Though I recall seeing a statistic during the first LPGA event she played this year, and her average driving distance was in the high 260's, a yard or two off of Annika's.

I really don't know how good Michelle Wie is. All I know is she drives the ball 300 yards and by her own admission is a poor putter. (No matter how long you drive, if you can't covert with one-putts, it matters not)

But what irks some people is that so many very fine young female golfers, Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, Brittany Lang, are just sideshows to Michelle Wie.

Creamer has won, twice. And she also slew the dragon, Ms. Sorenstam, in France. Remember that Sorenstam got in the final group in R3 at Evian? Creamer left Sorenstam in the dust. Think Creamer is going to be afraid to be in the final group with Annika on any weekend? I doubt it. In fact, Sorenstam's faltering performances starting with the U.S. Open, coupled with how Creamer dismantled Sorenstam at Evian, have de-mystified and de-fanged Sorenstam.

And what about Pressel? She says she wants to be influential in the LPGA. Pressel is playing in all the amateur events and she's going to Q-school. Both Creamer and Pressel and many other young phenoms are doing it the Tiger Woods way. Same with Brittany Lang.

Most of the teen stars are earning their dues en route to the LPGA circuit. Maybe Michelle Wie doesn't have to earn her dues. Who knows?

One thing that is certain, is that the combination of Creamer, Wie, Pressel, Lang, Gulbis and others has done at least something beneficial. They are so young and so good that it looks as if American woman are in good shape to take the mantle of supremacy from Annika.

Michelle would be the longest driver on the LPGA if she were a member. She needs all that length to have any chance of competing on the PGA in which she would be an average driver. 90% of the females couldn't compete on 7000 plus yard courses.
Alan

Alan, well you're close. Her average driving stats in the two PGA events this year (about 267), would put her just below the top LPGA pro, Sophie Gustafson, who is averaging 270 off the tee. And her average driving stats in those two PGA tour events were at or slightly BELOW the field average and both were very weak fields with almost none of the big boys playing.

It is disingenuous for those that compare older male and female players' statistics with a 15-year old schoolgirl's evolving driving stats and putting. There is an age difference and experience that accumulate over time. Certainly Michelle Wie has phenomenal potentials in addition to her talent and hard work. People are fascinated with her talent and potentials given her age and resilience to keep on trying. She is 15 years old. Even Judy Rankin, golf analyst made this point rather emphatically on air. I can't begin to try to understand why adults spew hatred towards her. I am generous enough to regard that it might be somewhat understandable for other competitive teen-ager golfers would be envious and jealous of Michelle. I doubt that the average high school and college female golfers would feel envious and jealous and hateful, they'd be too busy to polish their own games.

As to some folks who complain about why Creamer and others that don't seem to garner enough attention is that none of them has expressed any interest in playing against the boys/men. This is a polarizing point for people about Michelle Wie's desire and ability to cross the gender divide.

Let's not forget that at the end of the day, Michelle, her parents and coach know more about how far she will go and accomplish both in golf and educational pursuits. It's unlikely that she will play golf only but will pursue a college education since she comes from a family with numerous doctoral degrees on both sides of her parents.

* Certainly Michelle Wie has phenomenal potentials in addition to her talent and hard work. People are fascinated with her talent and potentials given her age and resilience to keep on trying.*

Isn't that really the problem in the discussion? The talk is constantly about Wie's potential. Then somebody says well, what about what she has accomplished. The reply: "Wie is only 15." or "Wie could dominate if she chooses to."

People use Wie's potential as proof that she is better than people like Creamer, or Pressel, or Lang, or others who have actually won tournaments.

How can anyone compare someone's *potential* -- which is only a supposition -- to another person's actual accomplishments?

*She is 15 years old. Even Judy Rankin, golf analyst made this point rather emphatically on air. I can't begin to try to understand why adults spew hatred towards her.*

I have no hatred towards her.

I blame the news media for the Wie hype, and the people who are only too willing to swallow whatever is the media's flavor of the month.

And what about Michelle's own attitude? From 'The Guardian' newspaper the week of the recent Women's British open

*****
Nancy Lopez, who will captain the US team in this year's Solheim Cup, is another who has suggested that rather than taking on the men the teenager should concentrate on beating the likes of Sorenstam.

Others argue that Wie has a responsibility to help promote the women's game, and that means playing in their events.

"I don't feel any obligation at all to promote women's golf," Wie said (on July 27) "I am not the commissioner. I am just doing what I want to do."
*****

* I am generous enough to regard that it might be somewhat understandable for other competitive teen-ager golfers would be envious and jealous of Michelle. I doubt that the average high school and college female golfers would feel envious and jealous and hateful *

Or more likely, the teenage stars are focused on being the best they can. They figure by playing great golf that will speak for them, rather than having the media hype machine do the talking.

So they just accomplish things such as being the youngest winner ever of a multi-day LPGA event, being the youngest millionaire in the LPGA, and probably being the only 18-year-old to win multiple multi-day tournaments, and being the only 18-year old to win U.S. and European tour events, or coming in 2nd in the U.S. women's open as an amateur, and then kicking behinds in a variety of amateur events.

So I doubt that the average teenage professional player is spending much time being hateful.

* As to some folks who complain about why Creamer and others that don't seem to garner enough attention is that none of them has expressed any interest in playing against the boys/men. *

So what you're saying is the LPGA is a failed enterprise. Women's golf is a failure and should be shut down. The only young women golfers who can get any attention are those who want to use the LPGA merely as a stepping stone to play against men.


* This is a polarizing point for people about Michelle Wie's desire and ability to cross the gender divide. *

Wrong. The polarization was created by the news media that sees only the Sorenstam and Wie show.

The real shame is the media has virtually ignored the remarkable stories of Paula Creamer and Morgan Pressel and Brittany Lang. Morgan and Brittany had zero fear of Sorenstam at the U.S. Open and finished far ahead of both Annika and Michelle with the championship on the line. Pressel and Lang didn't choke: The tournament was wrested from then by a legitimately great shot for the ages.

And at the Evian Masters, Creamer had no fear at all of Annika. Partnered with Sorenstam in the final group for Round 3, Creamer cleaned Sorenstam's clock, and left her gasping far behind.

The young players who slew the Sorenstam dragon in 2005 -- and derailed, probably forever, any chance for a Soren-slam -- were named Creamer, Kim, Jang, Pressel and Lang.

None of the dragon slayers were named Michelle Wie.

-George

George, you seem to have a low opinion of the media and the golfing public. If there were not some basis for the interest in Michelle Wie, do you really think she would be getting this much coverage and interest? Or do you think BJ Wie is paying off the media and conning all those tournament committees who fall over themselves, inviting her to their tournaments? What about the 10% more spectators and 20-30% more media coverage from all over the world when she is in the field? Only one other person makes that much difference. For those of you who have no clue about who started the "hype" about Wie, let me tell you because I was there. It started at the Sony Open in 2002 and 2003, when Wie played in Junior/PGA Pro exhibitions. That is when Tom Lehman dubbed her The Big Wiesy, calling her swing "perfect." That is when all the PGA pros would stop to watch a 12 year old girl keep up with them on the driving range. Vijay Singh described her swing as "unbelieveable." Fred Couples described her swing as "the scariest thing you've ever seen." Ernie Els called her swing as the best of any woman golfer he has ever seen. Johnny Miller, during the Woman's Open, called her swing, one of the 5 best swings in the world, including men. During her 2nd round at the 2004 Sony Open, Jesper Parnevik joined her gallery after he finished his round, the only time he has ever done that in 18 years as a pro. But what do they know; they're only PGA touring pros.

As far as driving distance in LPGA events, do not assume she is using a driver on any of the holes they measure. She probably uses a 4 wood. She hit a 3 wood 255 yds to the 17th green at the John Deere, after a 302 yd drive. At Shaker Heights, she hit driver and 4 iron to the par 5, 497 yd 17th hole. She averaged over 270 yds with a driver when she was 10 or 11. I doubt if she uses her driver more than 2-3 times a round, if that.

If you think Creamer, Pressel, Lang, etc. deserve more coverage, ask the press why they don't cover them more. Don't blame Michelle! I really doubt if Michelle told the press to only cover her! And why should Michelle have any responsibility to the LPGA? She is not even a member!

George---

"The young players who slew the Sorenstam dragon in 2005 -- and derailed, probably forever, any chance for a Soren-slam -- were named Creamer, Kim, Jang, Pressel and Lang."

YOU INCLUDE PRESSEL AND LANG BECAUSE THEY FINISHED AHEAD OF ANNIKA??

DO YOU KNOW THAT
MICHELLE FINISHED AHEAD OF ANNIKA IN BOTH THE EVIAN MASTERS AND THE WOMEN'S BRITISH OPEN ?


Quit the Michelle bashing will you--its really disgusting.

Has Paula Creamer ever even finished 2nd at a major --NOPE and she's 3 years older.

Lang hasn't done much.

Last month, Pressel lost in the 3rd round of a Junior girl's tournament...

so by your estimation they must be all LOSERS right ?

Just a quick response to George above: It is a discussion about a young golfer's potentials, no need to get your knickers in a twist about it. The bitterness is unnecessary in a discussion unless you're a relative of one of those young female golfers.

It is ironic that you are critical about the same media that pays attention to Michelle Wie and complains about the same media for not giving enough attention to Pressel, Creamer, and others. The media attention and commercial revenues generate quite a big boost of sponsorship for the LPGA.

George---

"The young players who slew the Sorenstam dragon in 2005 -- and derailed, probably forever, any chance for a Soren-slam -- were named Creamer, Kim, Jang, Pressel and Lang."

* YOU INCLUDE PRESSEL AND LANG BECAUSE THEY FINISHED AHEAD OF ANNIKA?? *

Umm ... yeah!

* Quit the Michelle bashing will you--its really disgusting. *

You're getting unhinged. My point was that the media has chosen to ignore other players who have actually accomplished -- accomplished -- important achievements. Those include Creamer's historic win at Sybase and her subsequent win in France. Not to mention more than $1.1 million in earnings.

I wasn't bashing Wie, except in the eyes of those who are hyper sensitive about pointing out that the discussion of Wie vs. the world is primarily a discussion of potential vs. achievements.

Wie has the potential, no question about it. I wouldn't be so foolish as to say Wie could never be better than Creamer, as a blogger on this site claimed. I also would never make the reverse claim, based only on potential vs. achievements.

* Has Paula Creamer ever even finished 2nd at a major --NOPE and she's 3 years older. *

I guess the tat for your tit would be to ask whether Michelle Wie has ever won an LPGA event.

* Lang hasn't done much. *

Well, Lang did finish 2nd in a major, right? That would have to be an incredible achievement, since you point to that as an incredible achievement for Wie.

* Last month, Pressel lost in the 3rd round of a Junior girl's tournament... *

* so by your estimation they must be all LOSERS right ? *

Nope. Creamer has won two tourneys, so I wouldn't call her a loser. Maybe you would but I wouldn't.

-George

to ann...

* Just a quick response to George above: It is a discussion about a young golfer's potentials, *

At least you're rational enough to concede that the only thing you can point to is Wie's potential. Not her achievements.

* no need to get your knickers in a twist about it. *

Don't confuse my offering a view contrary to yours with bunched up knickers.

* The bitterness is unnecessary in a discussion unless you're a relative of one of those young female golfers. *

I'm not bitter. But nice try, anyway. I just don't buy into the conventional wisdom and prefer to praise people based on their achievements.

* It is ironic that you are critical about the same media that pays attention to Michelle Wie and complains about the same media for not giving enough attention to Pressel, Creamer, and others. The media attention and commercial revenues generate quite a big boost of sponsorship for the LPGA. *


It's not ironic, it's consistent. I criticize the media because it is ga-ga over somebody who offers only potential and has yet to achieve a tour victory. Yet it also largely ignores a player, Creamer, who did achieve historic victories at Sybase and Evian, and set a youthful record for winnings.

-George

Vernon W. ...

* George, you seem to have a low opinion of the media and the golfing public. *

Ya think?!? (At least insofar as the news media)

* If there were not some basis for the interest in Michelle Wie, do you really think she would be getting this much coverage and interest? *

Self-fulfilling prophecy much? Just because the media hypes something doesn't mean it has substance. The media hyped the dot-com boom, too.

[...]

If you think Creamer, Pressel, Lang, etc. deserve more coverage, ask the press why they don't cover them more. Don't blame Michelle!

I don't blame Wie. I blame the media. Which is what I said from the start.

-George

George sounds a lot like Chris Baldwin.

...June...

* George sounds a lot like Chris Baldwin *

Phonics not your strong suit? Sort of like cat sounds a lot like dog? ;)

Seriously, you must have something a little more insightful to say in reply. (I hope)

I've brought up at least two key points, which no one seems to be able to refute:

1. comparing one person's potential to somebody else's achievements is an apples and oranges kind of game that is not particularly meaningful.

2. is the news media failing to see other intriguing youthful upstarts LPGA stories in their zeal to chase the Michelle Wie story? Is one story rightfully so much more compelling than the other?

Now, June, maybe you can hack away at those in a substantive way.

-George

Yo' George - Are you trying to show off how smart you are on this blog? I came to read the discussion about Jang and Wie, and you're taking up all the spaces just to argue with anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint. Dude, don't you have a job or life; those girls don't need some old man to defend them.

Go team Wie

George-you keep on contradicting yourself !

"The young players who slew the Sorenstam dragon in 2005 -- and derailed, probably forever, any chance for a Soren-slam -- were named Creamer, Kim, Jang, Pressel and Lang."

* YOU INCLUDE PRESSEL AND LANG BECAUSE THEY FINISHED AHEAD OF ANNIKA?? *

Umm ... yeah! "

Why aren't you including Michelle Wie on this list of yours when she has finished ahead of Annika Sorenstam two tournaments in a row. You can't deny you have a bias against Michelle if you're bashing her and praising other players for accomplishing the exact same thing.

George,

I see your point about comparing potential and acheivement. But it really depends on how you look at it. To me, Michelle Wie has acheived a lot already. It's needless to point out what she did, but let's take a stab. Of the LPGA tournaments she has played in this year, she would have 1 Top 25 finish, 1 Top 15 Finish, 3 Second Place finished, and 1 third place finish. Women on the LPGA tour would have died to have a record like hers. Yet, with all her acheivements she still shows the potential to be greater than she already is. As someone said early, the only thing lacking in her game is her normal putting.

As for your take on all other young stars to "slew the dragon." I wouldn't consider beating Sorenstam ONCE or TWICE slewing the dragon. Even if you do so, I don't see why you wouldn't include Michelle Wie just because she didn't finish first. You included Pressel and Lang because they finished second to her 23rd. Well, Wie finished ahead of her two weeks straight. For two straight weeks Wie "slewed the dragon." I guess in your margin she should be included, yet as Jennifer said you contradicted yourself.

As for the media, yes they might be covering way too much of Michelle Wie. But does that mean it's not deserved? Wie, in my estimates, has showed she already is a star. The media is a double-edged sword you can say. They cover Wie too much you say. But if it were not for interesting stories like Wie's, coverage of the LPGA would be no where close as it is now. Which could possibly have meant little to no mention of Lang, Pressel, of Creamer to the general public. I agree with you in that the media, in that sense, is bad. But I must reiterate myself, the attention Wie is getting is much deserved.

The only thing I know is that it would be really interesting to see how Wie, Creamer, Pressel, Lang, and other young stars battle each other out in the near future.

Hey, Stephan, I'll answer here to everyone so you don't have to fret over my using too much of the spaces on the blog.

To all who have replied...

* Yo' George - Are you trying to show off how smart you are on this blog? *

(Blushes)

* I came to read the discussion about Jang and Wie, *

Someone stopping you from reading about it, or talking about it?

* and you're taking up all the spaces *

Yeah, I'm taking up all the space. Because space is so LIMITED on the Internet!

* just to argue with anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint. *

Are people not supposed to post comments here? Or post only comments that provide the delicate tropical flowers that are your opinions with aid and comfort?

* Dude, don't you have a job or life; *

I post, therefore I am! (You do realize how 20th Century are the "don't you have a life or job" comments, right?)

* those girls don't need some old man to defend them. *

Or some young'n like you?

Regarding the slaying the myth of the Sorenstam invicibility: I mentioned several folks. Some people whined because I didn't include Wie. I have no problem with her being in the mix. I'll always root first for an American to win a golf tourney, over all comers.

But Creamer, B.Kim and Jang, should get the most credit. They actually won big tournaments that Sorenstam was chasing in a big way.

Creamer whipped Sorenstam in round 3 OF the Evian. Paired with Annika, Paula left her gasping in on the fairway.

Jang was being chased by Sorenstam and blitzed her.

Kim won the U.S. Open. Pressel and Lang showed no fear of Annika. Pressel, didn't win, but by the time Kim made her bunker shot, Pressel had left Annika for dead and was looking at a win in the U.S. open.

Wie can contribute to the dragon slaying in a more meaningful way when she wins a tournament.

* Go team Wie *

Go team America!

What would be great for women's golf would be a Big X (Big 3, 4, 5, whatever) of young American stars who can face off against the world's best, but also give each other a tussle whenever they're in the same tournament.

Right now, the most likely candidates for that group are Creamer, Pressel and Wie, with, potentially people like Lang and Gulbis ready to join the party. I believe none of the five fear any of the other four

And probably none of them fear Annika any longer, especially following the remarkable and confounding meltdown of the once-unbeatable Swedish star this summer, starting with the U.S. Open

That makes for a great rivalry, and I believe that is what women's golf needs.

-George

From Vernon Wong:

George pasted this from a news story:

*****
Others argue that Wie has a responsibility to help promote the women's game, and that means playing in their events.

"I don't feel any obligation at all to promote women's golf," Wie said (on July 27) "I am not the commissioner. I am just doing what I want to do."
*****

Vernon replied:

* And why should Michelle have any responsibility to the LPGA? She is not even a member! *

First of all, Vernon, the context was to promote *women's* golf, not the LPGA.

And in contrast to Wie's comments, there is this from Cleveland regarding a sponsored appearance by Creamer a day or so ago:

*****
LPGA's Creamer is an ace at First Tee youth program
Wednesday, August 03, 2005
Dennis Manoloff
Plain Dealer Reporter

Paula Creamer arrived Tuesday morning at Washington Golf Learning Center in Slavic Village exceptionally tired. She was less than 48 hours removed from a tie for 15th at the Women's British Open, her wrist watch still set for tee times in Merseyside, England.

Nonetheless, Creamer, already an LPGA standout as an 18-year-old rookie, had no problem mustering enthusiasm for a clinic with youngsters from The First Tee of Cleveland program. She clearly was in her element interacting with the several dozen in attendance.

"This is wonderful," Creamer said during a lunch break between instruction on the driving range and around the putting green. "It's nice to give back, especially through First Tee, which is such a fantastic program. This is the fun part of my job,' believe me."

The First Tee initiative uses golf as a platform to teach essential core values and life skills. A list of nine values includes honesty, integrity, courtesy and respect. Being able to hole a wedge from 75 yards is a bonus.

"Ms. Creamer epitomizes everything we stand for," said Doris A. Evans, M.D., executive director of The First Tee of Cleveland. "It's easy to see why we're delighted to have her with us."

One of Creamer's endorsement deals is with Royal Bank of Scotland, which sponsored the appearance. RBS got its money worth. The affable Californian pulled into the grounds early and stayed late, spending three-plus hours answering questions, signing autographs and offering one-on-one instruction to anyone who asked.

"Helping kids, seeing them enjoy themselves, is better than winning tournaments," Creamer said.

Nicknamed, "Pink Panther," Creamer already has won twice as a pro, the second coming in a runaway over a loaded field two weeks ago at the Evian Masters in France. She ranks among LPGA leaders in numerous categories -- notably victories and earnings ($1,144,948) -- and would be on the Solheim Cup team if the event were held this week. She became the youngest and quickest player in LPGA Tour history to earn more than $1 million.

Creamer brought no air of teenage millionaire to the proceedings Tuesday. She went so far as to open her bag to the students. Christian Price, 15, of Cleveland, was handed her shiny Taylor Made r7 quad driver and took full advantage.

Price, fast and fluid through impact, hammered drive after drive long and straight.

"I wish I owned that club," he said.

Creamer, as expected, handled every club with aplomb. She basically did whatever she wanted with the ball as the youngsters watched, wide-eyed.

"She's really good," said Amber Samkas, 11, from Cleveland.

Samkas donned a First Tee cap with the signatures of Creamer and Creamer's father, Paul, who travels with his daughter. Paul Creamer quietly helped a couple of the golfers correct swing flaws.

Samkas had asked Paul Creamer to sign. He was flattered and, after asking, "Are you sure?" signed in pink Sharpie.

"Wait until Paula sees this," he said with a grin.

At one point, the group gathered to sing happy birthday to Paula, who turns 19 on Friday.

"She could do this all day," Paul Creamer said of his daughter's interaction with the youngsters. "We're going to have to pull her away, and only because we have a plane to catch."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

dmanoloff@plaind.com, 216-999-4677


© 2005 The Plain Dealer
© 2005 cleveland.com All Rights Reserved.

*****

-George

George

Pretty much what you're saying in a nutshell is

Unless Michelle wins -even if she finishes 2nd or 3rd---she's a complete loser....

While everyone else can just finish ahead of Annika even if they're 19th -and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread....

You and Chris Baldwin's hatred of Michelle Wie is appalling, I hope she has an extremely successful career just so the two of you will be completely miserable....

George--

I think its completely unfair and SICK that you are implying Michelle is somehow a less moral person because Paula Creamer did something very nice.

What do you mean "in contrast to Michelle" ?

Has Michelle ever done anything that says she would be against doing the nice thing that Paula just did ?

You are pathetic-that you would make this into a
Michelle Wie is selfish and evil
Paula Creamer is generous and good argument...

First of all-you take a quote by Michelle totally out of context and now she's the most selfish person in the world...

I didn't even like Paula Creamer at first because the press had made her out to be a catty person that was jealous of Michelle--but once I found out more about her I realized she was a really nice girl who was friends with Michelle.

Its unfortunate that an old guy like you finds some enjoyment villifying a school girl who has not done anything but want to play golf....

You and Chris Baldwn are pathetic...

Comment from: Jason [Visitor]

Sounds like you and Jennifer are getting pretty much unhinged about the whole Michelle Wie sich.

* Pretty much what you're saying in a nutshell is Unless Michelle wins -even if she finishes 2nd or 3rd---she's a complete loser.... *

Can you find a place where I said that Wie is a complete loser?

In fact, all I've been saying that it's unfortunate that rising stars like Paula Creamer, and amateur standouts such as Morgan Pressel and Brittany Lang, who have done a lot as non-pros, are pretty much ignored.

* While everyone else can just finish ahead of Annika even if they're 19th -and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.... *

If you're talking about Morgan Pressel or Brittany Lang, they finished 2nd at the U.S. Open. I don't think I ever talked about somebody finishing 19th.

* You and Chris Baldwin's hatred of Michelle Wie is appalling, I hope she has an extremely successful career just so the two of you will be completely miserable... *

I also posted this earlier.

*****
Go team America!

What would be great for women's golf would be a Big X (Big 3, 4, 5, whatever) of young American stars who can face off against the world's best, but also give each other a tussle whenever they're in the same tournament.

Right now, the most likely candidates for that group are Creamer, Pressel and Wie, with, potentially people like Lang and Gulbis ready to join the party. I believe none of the five fear any of the other four

And probably none of them fear Annika any longer, especially following the remarkable and confounding meltdown of the once-unbeatable Swedish star this summer, starting with the U.S. Open

That makes for a great rivalry, and I believe that is what women's golf needs.

*****

As you can see, I stated my hope that Wie would be part of the mix and one of the Big-3-4-5 on the women's tour.

So if you think that "in a nutshell" means I hope Wie does not have a successful career, or that I hate Michelle Wie, then maybe you have some reading-comprehension issues. Or maybe you missed seeing that post.

-George

From Jennifer...

* First of all-you take a quote by Michelle totally out of context and now she's the most selfish person in the world... *

Then, Jennifer, if you can discuss this unemotionally, please set me straight.

What WAS the full context of the quote? Can you supply that?

*****
"I don't feel any obligation at all to promote women's golf," Wie said (on July 27). "I am not the commissioner. I am just doing what I want to do."
*****

What is the correct way to interpret what she said? Can you help me out here?

* Its unfortunate that an old guy like you finds some enjoyment villifying a school girl who has not done anything but want to play golf.... *

Did I villify Michelle Wie?

Or is the problem that her statements offer an insight into her attitude about women's golf?

One thing's for sure, Michelle's got us talking, which is what you want on a blog!

Don't forget, this is something Michelle said. I didn't say it.

Finally, I maintain I did not villify Michelle Wie when I wrote this:

*****
Go team America!

What would be great for women's golf would be a Big X (Big 3, 4, 5, whatever) of young American stars who can face off against the world's best, but also give each other a tussle whenever they're in the same tournament.

Right now, the most likely candidates for that group are Creamer, Pressel and Wie, with, potentially people like Lang and Gulbis ready to join the party. I believe none of the five fear any of the other four

And probably none of them fear Annika any longer, especially following the remarkable and confounding meltdown of the once-unbeatable Swedish star this summer, starting with the U.S. Open

That makes for a great rivalry, and I believe that is what women's golf needs.

*****

Got that, Jennifer? To review...

... I think it would be great if Creamer, Pressel and Wie were to become the Big 3 of women's golf, or maybe part of a Big 5, if you throw in Gulbis or Lang or somebody else. That kind of multi-headed rivalry, led by American women, would be fabulous for women's golf.

-George

Actually, if you want to see some real sound and fury about the Michelle Wie situation, check out this link. (The discussion started out with an innocent question about why Michelle skipped the U.S. women's amateur and required only a few replies to be transformed into a heated debate)

And no, I haven't posted in that thread!

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/browse_frm/thread/9d9294fab403f7ce/b1e0c1db8a831f3c?hl=en#b1e0c1db8a831f3c

Comment from: George [Visitor]

"And no, I haven't posted in that thread!"

But you sure go out of your way to dig up dirt on a 15 year old!!!
You must spend hours on this, have you no life?

To Jennifer Mario, Is there some way you can disinfect your comments sections so the same inane individual does not dominate the space? Some people do not have a life so are just jealous of others who do. Have you seen the spread of articles on Michelle Wie in the Aug 3 edition of the Honolulu Advertiser?

Everyone---

Its very difficult for narcissistic people like George to own up to their own mistakes, or see any mistruths to what they're saying.

Its a waste of time pointing out all his B.S. because he's always going to think he's right...

Better focus your energy elsewhere...

For those interested--

Michelle Wie will be on David Letterman August 8 Monday

and Good Morning America the next morning Aug. 9 :)

Geez, the way you guys are ripping on George just proves how bad political correctness has infected our thought processes. Granted, his posts are very long and are dominating this blog, but you guys/gals are jumping to all sorts of conclusions and suppositions about his 'real intentions and motivations, not to mention ripping on him personally. A quick read of his posts and I don't see where he has villified anybody, including Michelle, or where he has drawn any sweeping conclusions, or where age, sex, or racism have played any part in his comments. He has merely stated some facts and presented his viewpoint. If you don't agree with his facts, present facts of your own to refute them. If you don't agree with his opinions, voice your own in a civil manner.

What is interesting to me in this debate is that those that are questioning the Michelle Wie phenomenon seem to be the ones that are doing so backed by facts and civil discussion, while those who are in such earnest support of her are quick to turn this into a personal attack fest. Suddenly anyone who questions her must be an old guy, an old sexist guy, or an old sexist bigot.

Arnie,

Maybe you shouldn't paint all Wie "supporters" with the same broad brush either. I'll ask you to point out where I did not use facts to back up my argument, or where I failed to state my opinion in a reasonable manner.

I have already refuted George's "facts", and yours, with facts of my own elsewhere - the conversation has now become cyclical. Those who were undecided have enough to decide, those who are decided will not be changing their opinion based on this blog.

So don't say that the balanced, fair and rational arguments are made by the Wie "questioners", while the Wie "supporters" are vilifying only. Not true.

And let's remember how this started - rational, opinion and fact based blog by Jennifer Mario, irrational, opinion-for-reaction-only based blog by Chris Baldwin.

Actually Arnie--

I believe the personal attack fest was started by none other than Chris Baldwin---

I guess some people just felt that you had to stoop to his level so he can comprehend their point.

Usually, I mind when blogs have personal attacks in them but in this case I think the attacks were deserved.

I agree that CB's article on Wie was ridiculous and mean spirited, but I don't think George, or I for that matter, have gotten personal at all. But if you read this thread and CBs, you will note that it was the Wie supporters who raised accusations/intimations of racism, sexism, age, simple bias, jealousy, just because they did not agree with the people who aren't leaping on the Wie bandwagon. That's all I'm saying.

Also, I don't consider someone saying they think Wie is overrated, overhyped, etc. as a personal attack. However, calling someone else fat, old, bald, ugly, sexist, racist, etc. does seem to cross that line.

fat, old, bald, ugly, sexist, racist! Wow?

Arnie-

You're complaining that you're being personally attacked and stereotyped ---
yet you just stereotyped all "Wie supporters" as engaging in personal attacks...

Do you see any irony in this ??

Yes, John D, you need to go to Q-School if you shoot a 76 but Michelle does not because she never shot higher than 75 in any of her 3 PGA tournaments. Besides, you being an "old guy" and the best you can do is 76 (your choice of "if" scores) where a 15 year old girl has not shot worst than a 75 is making me LOL. The impressive thing about Michelle's story is not that a man, woman or boy fails to make the PGA cut but a 15 year old girl who misses the cut by 1 or 2 strokes!

Michelle, I wasn't complaining for me, but for George. I haven't noticed anyone inferring those things about me. But since I not old, not fat, not (that) ugly, not racist, and not sexist, I wouldn't care if they did. And while I do continue to wish the best for Michelle, I do agree that they hype has gotten out of hand. But I don't see it as a big deal, because reality will set in, she will never be truly competitive on the PGA tour and she will simply be a very solid player on the LPGA tour, which, lest we forget, has a lot of very good young women just breaking on the scene.

I am an Asian-American young woman (older than Michelle Wie), started golf 2 years ago, am only a 20-handicap. You know, I really hope Michelle Wie makes something of her career. As for me, after reading all this BS from guys who are getting their panties (boxers?) in a twist about a teenager who dares to compete at the highest level she can, I'm sick to my stomach. How can anyone attack Wie for accepting PGA sponsor's exemptions? Attack the damn sponsors for giving them to her, if you must blame someone. She obviously CAN compete with the men. OK, she is not good enough to WIN against them yet, nor was she good enough to make the cut on the LPGA tour when she first started at age 13 (now she is batting 100% for making the LPGA cut). She needs a chance. Yup, she could and should go to Q-school for the PGA, but why should she if sponsors are oh-so-willing to give her exemptions (a la Tiger, Phil, etc.). I mean, if someone wants to attack the whole system of sponsor's exemptions altogether then let that be the case, but why is it so wrong (in some people's minds -- usually SOME men's minds) for Michelle to get the exemption that would otherwise go to some relative of some rep who works for the sponsor, or some local favorite who has a near-zero chance of ever playing on the PGA Tour? Michelle Wie is merely just accepting the exemptions offered to her, like any aspiring pro golfer would likely do (hell, if I didn't suck and someone offered ME an exemption, I'd take it too). So what? I mean, do you want to rank her performance out of all golfers who accepted PGA exemptions, that would be the more appropriate comparison? Look, I don't know if she's going to be great in golf or not. Anyhow, good luck to Michelle. I personally am sticking to soccer and baseball because there are no women's pro leagues/tours so I wouldn't have to put up with this s**t. (Just as Danica Patrick doesn't have people saying she should race women's racecar driving because there isn't any). Geez, I wish men were more secure about sports. Note this is not targeted towards ALL men, just some. And to the reader who wrote that Wie gets so much (media) attention because she is statuesque, tall, and attractive, well, DUH. You think we'd enjoy watching Tiger so much if he were a fat Kenny Perry/Jason Gore type? Of course not. Next you'll be complaining that Brad Pitt only gets his roles because he's hot and not because he is a talented actor. Since when is being attractive enhancing a person's marketability a new thing? Grow some balls. BTW, is it true that it took Tiger 8 or 9 tries to make a cut? ANyone out there bitching about why HE was getting all those sponsor's exemptions after he missed the cut hit first 3 times? Was he playing "out of his league" then too, like Michelle? Well, gee, maybe Tiger should have stopped too after accepting 3 PGA sponsor's exemptions and missing all 3 cuts, like many would like to see Michelle stop with reference to the PGA. Anyone who thought Tiger should keep plugging away but Michelle Wie should stop accepting PGA exemptions NOW is just plain sexist because that's what having to sets of rules translates too. For those who thought Tiger should have stopped after accepting/missing cute for his firsat 3 tourney exemptions then at least you are being consistent (but you can see how ridiculous that would have been).

P.S. There is at least ONE good thing about all the Michelle naysayers, it seems to be her personality that it drives her to be better, to prove the naysayers wrong. So in that sense keep saying that she won't make a PGA cut.

BW, I totally agree with you re: the exemptions. As stupid as exemptions are, they're there and they always will be as long as corporate america continues to foot the bill for pro golf in this country. Nobody should fault Michelle for accepting them, just like nobody screams when John Q. Local PGA Pro gets one.

However, unless she does something spectacular and actually competes at one of these events relatively soon, that opportunity will disappear and she will be relegated to Q school at some point if she wants to play a semi-regular schedule on the PGA Tour.

I would actually love to see all of the top young women try to get through Q school. If women could compete with the men, I think it would be great for 'women's golf' to have the best women playing on the PGA tour, and have the LPGA tour become the 'Nationwide' Tour for the women so-to speak. However, I don't think there is any way Michelle, or any other woman for that matter, will ever truly compete with the best male players in the world. The physical differences are just too great to overcome. They might make the cut in an event, likely a weak field, and sell a few newspapers. But I applaud her for trying to do the most she can with her enormous talent.

BW, I totally agree with you re: the exemptions. As stupid as exemptions are, they're there and they always will be as long as corporate america continues to foot the bill for pro golf in this country. Nobody should fault Michelle for accepting them, just like nobody screams when John Q. Local PGA Pro gets one.

However, unless she does something spectacular and actually competes at one of these events relatively soon, that opportunity will disappear and she will be relegated to Q school at some point if she wants to play a semi-regular schedule on the PGA Tour.

I would actually love to see all of the top young women try to get through Q school. If women could compete with the men, I think it would be great for 'women's golf' to have the best women playing on the PGA tour, and have the LPGA tour become the 'Nationwide' Tour for the women so-to speak. However, I don't think there is any way Michelle, or any other woman for that matter, will ever truly compete with the best male players in the world. The physical differences are just too great to overcome. They might make the cut in an event, likely a weak field, and sell a few