The US Women's Open: will someone get it right?

Ri Pak. There, I said it.

Uh, listen, darlin', this is America, we're under no obligation to embrace foreign pronunciation.

Jennifer,
Sorry, but you've got it wrong too.

It's actually supposed to be pronounced:
Yung Yang.
Exactly as that reads.

At least that's the way, the Korean players pronounce it.

Yeon Yang would be the correct way to pronouce her name, but I prefer JJ and so does she.

"Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Uh, listen, darlin', this is America, we're under no obligation to embrace foreign pronunciation."

Now that is the statement of a true Globalist.

It's called laziness.

I once heard the venerable Keith Jackson pronounce "Waianae" and "Punahou" with clean precision - no stumbles.

It's OK if it's your Aunt Margaret, but a responsible network announcer is obligated to pronounce a featured name. No excuses.

Norman,
I almost always agree with what you have to say, but this time I'm afraid you're mistaken. Either you're mis-hearing the Korean players, or they're trying to somehow Americanize it. Her name is spelled and pronounced with a J.

When I was in Korea last year, Jang was being treated as a local hero after winning the women's British Open. The Korean announcers, news media, and fans pronounced it with a J.

I can also read Hangul, the Korean alphabet, and I assure you that her name, as it is spelled, is pronounced with a J. Where the Y sound you're describing came from, I have no idea.

You're right, Four-Putt, I'm not a globalist. I'm a patriot.

How cool is that? We will now be having korean language lessons on this site. Maybe that is one way we will start to become fans of the South Korean players.

Hey, it's little pimply judge smails typing blips from his mama's trailer. Figures you took the name of the dumbest character in Caddy Shack.

Hey, let's be like judge smails! Let's show our patriotism by mispronouncing Korean names!

Kom Sa Ham Mi Da; Thank you very much

Chom ma nay o: That is quite alright

Iddio say o: Please come here

Katah say o: Please go away

Judge tan san mati ya: My mind can't comprehend the Judge

Judge mecha soooooo: Judge is really insane

Alex oops sayo: Alex is not here

You're right on some counts Ms. Mario if you tried to translate a Chinese name such as Jeong Jiang (Jang) into Han Gul it would sound as you described it above.

Unfortunately all official records in Korea are recorded in Chinese, hence the corrected pronuctiation. Many Asian countries use Chinese for official records as it has enough characters to cover every requirement, unlike Han Gul that has only twenty-four characters.

I'll give you some examples:

Cities:

Taegu City for Koreans is known as Daegu

Pusan City for Koreans is known as Busan

Kwang Ju City for Koreans is known as Gwang Gu

JJ is a Korean by birth, but her first and last names are Chinese in origin.

As recorded in ancient Korean history the Ruling Dynasties extended well into Southern China from Korea, so there are many Koreans today with Chinese names.

What do "official records" have to do with anything? How is the name pronounced, with a "J" sound or with a "Y" sound? I am more confused about the Koreans names now than I was before I read this...

By the way Judge, being a patriot does not mean ignoring the languages and cultures from around the world. That's called an ignoramus.

Candace,

You lack the intellectual depth to understand the point I'm making.

Go bake some cookies.

I am an old fool, but I know Koeran language in native tongue. The correct pronunciations are:

J as in Jeep
a as in hAha!
ng as in siNG

J as in Jeep
u as in EArth
ng as in siNG

I hope that this clarifies.

As for the Korean Alphabet (not characters!), it was invented 500 years ago by the Great King, SeaJongDaeWang. It's is just like English alphabet, only smaller numbers (24 letters). It was created by scientists, comissioned by the king, and considered to be the greatest invention in Korean history.

Enjoy while you can!

Wow Judge SMALL,

If there's anything smaller than your weaner, it must be your gray matter.

Norman,

We're talking about Korean pronunciation, not Chinese. You're getting the two confused. As one poster mentioned, Koreans have their own alphabets.

Basically, Jennifer's article is correct. Jeong (jung) rhymes with lung.

William,

The word you're looking for is "wiener." Uh, what were you saying about gray matter again . . ..?

Judge Small,

Do some research on "weaner" before making a moron of yourself.

Learning Korean alphabet is actually easy. There are 14 consonants and a lot of vowels. But the basic building blocks of vowels are 3 symbols: dot (.), horizontal line (-) and vertical line (|). You combine these 3 symbols to generate 10 different vowel sounds and additional more vowel sounds. For instance you can produce |., |.., etc.
You can see them in
http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/Language/Korean.gif
You may say Korean is a vowel rich phonetic system but poor at consonants. This is causing the problem when you try to write and pronounce JJ's name in English.

Judge Small,

It seems you're notorious for posting antagonistic posts at other blogs, especially against women, Wie, and people of non-Western cultures, just overall obnoxious and very course.

Yet, as I read them, I noticed that you might be missing some cultural nuances of the English language. Perhaps, you are not an American you pretend to be? What are you? Maybe a high school drop out who is living vicariously in the internet? Do you have a low image of self-concept? Personal inadequacy leading you to lash out at the world? Get some professional help before it's too late.

LOL. Willie, once again, there is NO such word as "weaner." I think you ought to do a little research. Ever hear of Dictionary.com?

Jennifer,
I'll take your word for it.

I don't know which Korean player I had heard saying it, because at that time I didn't know that many of them. I know nearly each korean on the lpga since then. I've even met some of them which is a real treat, cause some of them are stunning.
Shi Hyun Ahn, a real beauty, along with Grace Park, but thats another story.

Alot of the Korean players have pretty sound English in person. I get very annoyed when commentators interview them and use really complex words and phrases that they would be highly unlikely to understand.

Ai Miyazato is gorgeous too. She is Japanese so probably has no place in this discussion, but oh well.
With that crop of talent, the lpga should flourish.

To go even more off topic. A big well done to Michelle Wie for playing so well at the US Womens Open Championship. Great play.

By the way, where is Chris Baldwins latest Michelle Wie appreciation thread?

Under construction maybe.

The US Women's Open ain't over until the fat lady sings.....come on PAT!!!! You can do it girl!

I am also pulling for Pat, a San Francisco Bay Area hometown player. I read an interesting article of how in the beginning of her career, she missed gaining her LPGA card, and since there was no futures tour back then, ended up working at a local golf shop just to pay the bills.

With a win tomorrow Pat will go down in USGA golf history as the first female to win at all four levels of USGA competition. This could be a record for all time since it is so difficult to attain.

Pat is also an American and it has been a few years since we had one win an Open. GO PAT BEAT ANNIKA!!!

One-Putt, Annika is a US citizen.

Alex,
Annika is Swedish.

By the way, I predict at least a 3 shot victory for Annika.

I would not be surprised if Annika gave up her Swedish citizenship considering the high income tax rate in Sweden.

"Comment from: Alex [Visitor] · http://Alex
One-Putt, Annika is a US citizen."

I guess she really played out of turn in the Solheim cups over the years playing for the Euros.

Maybe she should be DQ'd from her past World Cup matches.

Attention all Wie Warriors and other miscreants! Annika Sorenstam, the newly-crowned US Women's Open champion is absolutely, positively,a 100% bona fide citizen of the United States of America!

According to the ESPN golf commentators, that is correct... Annika received her US citizenship on June 14th....

Na... US allows dual citizenships. So she is still a Swedish !!!!

Dr. Wee Wee, I will assume that you are trying to be funny in your post. Because if you are not, your comment would have to rank as perhaps the most egregious example of intentional stupidity ever posted on these boards.

Alex,
What are you talking about?

Annika is most definetely Swedish.
Look at the flag beside her name in the US Open scoring if you are having difficulties with it.

Alex and JR are right Norman, Annika is a dual citizen of the USA and Sweden if that is legal.

Norman, What I am talking about is this. And pay close attention because I'm only going to say it this once. Annika Sorenstam, the newly-crowned US Women's Open Golf champion, is a genuine citizen of the United States of America. Period. End of discussion. If you are having trouble with it , I strongly suggest you do some research into the subject before you aim any of your half-baked British condescension in my direction. In my platoon in the USMC, we had a gunny (that's a gunnery sergeant for you non-jarheads) from the state of Mississippi who had an appropriate expression for a smart alec who got his comeuppance. He'd say in his very own Southern drawl, "That's
what happens,son, when you let your alligator mouth overload your kildeer a**."

Alex,

Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard on these Alan Cup competitors. After all, they're just trying to maximize their chances of reaching the very pinnacle of stupidity by letting their creative juices flow.

Judge Smails, You may call it the pinnacle, I prefer to call it the nadir. It is amazing to me that a pseudo-intellectual like Norman would think that a flag symbol on a TV screen would have more validity than the records in a US Federal courthouse. I don't believe he is as yet convinced that Annika is really a US citizen.

Michelle Wie now has her statue erected in Michigan. Bigger than life !
She has fame, money, talent, looks. Now she just has to win the big one.

BTW, Dottie Pepper is something. She predicted correctly the winner twice in a row. Last time her pick was Seri Pak in Mac Open. Then, she said Annika will come back in top form and win the US Open.

Wie will have to wait for Dottie's nod before she wins one...

Ah, Alex, great minds think alike. After clicking the "Send comment" button, it occurred to me that perhaps I should have said "nadir." Yes, it certainly is more fitting.

By the way, perhaps Norman labours (I hope he appreciates the British spelling) under the illusion that the USGA determines citizenship.

Judge Smails, Judging by the tenor of his posts, it is apparent that Norman is labouring under several delusions, not the least of which is the gross misconception that at least one female golfer has the physical and mental strength and stamina to compete with successfully with the men pros on the PGA tour. Results of previous attempts at this futile pursuit, and simple visual observation would seem to indicate quite the opposite to any sensible person. Whilst Norman may be a professional golfer, and in general a hale fellow well met, his absurd premise as previously stated has about the same validity as does his insistence that Annika Sorenstam is not a US citizen.

I am not convinced! MW's putting performance at the US Open was a fluke. I bet she won't repeat it this year and will go back to the usual 32-34 putts per round; you will all see.

hc2,
On Michelle's putting performance, she was rated 3rd on total putts per round at the US Open. Does this mean that she has suddenly become excellent at putting and was the 3rd best putter out there.
No it does not.

I have tried to explain before to the anti-Wie brigade here that Michelle's high putts per round total was a product of her high green in regulation figure.
The anti-Wie brigade have alot of difficulty understanding, but I will try to explain it again with an example:

- Say Michelle and Annika hit shots to the centre of the fairway. Annika hits her ball on the green to 30 feet. Then she two putts, as is very reasonable for 30 feet.
From the centre of the fairway, Michelle missed the green and lands just beside it. She takes a short chip, and lands the ball at 2 feet. She takes 1 putt.

If this pattern continues in a round of golf, Michelle will likely have many less putts than Annika. Does it mean Michelle is a better putter? No it does not.

So although Michelle came third in putts per round, it does not make her the 3rd best putter. The main reason was because she went from being number 1 in greens in regulation in each of her previous 3 tournaments, to being tied for 18th in greens in regulation. That makes it very easy to lower putts per round.

By the way, her putting did improve a bit. She didn't miss any short putts for instance, but the reason for the big change was the greens in regulation number.

If Michelle goes back to hitting her usual high number of greens in regulation, expect her putt count to increase also.

Alex and Under Par,

Okay so lets say Annika is a US citizen. What is your point?
She is still Swedish, and her wins are Swedish wins.

Someone said that they wanted Pat to win because she is an American, and American hadn't won an Open in quite a long time.
After the US Open, with Annika as a winner the reality stays the same, it has been quite a long time since an American won the title.

hc2 said:
I am not convinced! MW's putting performance at the US Open was a fluke. I bet she won't repeat it this year and will go back to the usual 32-34 putts per round
***************************

I have access to all the stats, and from the start of 2005, she has not had a putt per round stat of 32 or over in any of the lpga tournaments she has entered. That is 12 tournaments.
Her average for the 8 tournament in 2005 was exactly 30 putts per round.

As I said before the putt per round figure is not important anyway unless you take into account the number of green in regulation.
However I just wanted to point out how flawed your figure were in your comment.

Norman the most important stat for Michelle was no double-bogeys. She eliminated the DB from her game under difficult conditions. Her scrambling was excellent.

Norman, There is nothing so terrible about being mistaken. Hell, we've all made mistakes. The secret is to know one's mistakes,, admit them as a man would, and try not to make the same mistake again. Your backsliding by saying "let's say that Annika is a US citizen. What is the point?" just won't get it. The point is, you Johnny Bull rascal, is that I made that statement, and you, in a display of blatant arrogance and ignorance said that she was not. Not once but several times. I issue you a challenge: I say that you don't have the cojones, the gonads, the b***s to admit you were wrong and that you were an arrogant British twit for making an issue of it. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

Alex,
I am well aware of your lack of intelligence, but perhaps even you can understand this.
You stated: "Annika is a US citizen".
I stated: "Alex, What are you talking about? Annika is most definetely Swedish. Look at the flag beside her name in the US Open scoring if you are having difficulties with it".
***************

Alex,
Perhaps you can read that maybe 10 times to try to take it in.
Even you, yes even you, might realise that I did not say that she wasn't a US citizen. Perhaps you should scroll to the original comments just to make sure.
My issue was with the fact that she is a Swedish woman plain and simple. I don't care if she holds citizenships in 20 countries, and I did not deny that she does. My point is that it doesn't matter if she has citizenships in 20 countries, she is still Swedish, she plays under the Swedish flag, and a tournament win for her is a win for a Swedish player.
That is why I asked you what you are talking about, as in, what does citizenship in any country have to do with the discussion of whether an American player has won the US Open the last several times it was held.

In your most recent comment, you accused me of saying that she wasn't a US citizen. Perhaps you would like to admit that you made a mistake in making that claim.

I'm not optimistic on you understanding any of that Alex.

So again I'll try to help:
You said "she is a US Citizen".
I did not deny that. I simply asked "what are you talking about", and explained that she is most definetely a Swedish player playing under the Swedish flag.
In other words, what has citizenship got to do with anything?

I didn't comment on whether she was actually a US Citizen, because citizenship is completely irrelevant and off issue. The country she plays for is the issue.

Norman,

Maybe you can clear something up for me because there's something I don't quite understand. At what point does someone like Sorenstam become American? After being here five years? Ten? Fifteen? And once you have an answer, I'd like specificity. What month, week and day of that year?

Norman, I didn't think you would have the guts to admit your mistake. Annika was born in Sweden. Since the age of majority, she has attended and graduated from college at Arizona State. She owns and resides in a house in Incline Village, Nevada. When not traveling to other countries, she spends virtually all her time in the US, AND, she is a US Citizen. AS far as any titles she has won, they belong to Annika, NOT the nation of Sweden. Norman, you really shouldn't be so vindictive just because you didn't do your homework before spouting off. It just isn't in the British national psyche to spew venom. Limeys are supposed to use picturesque understatement. Whatever happened to that Churchillian example of "keeping a stiff upper lip?"

Alex,

Remember, Norman is competing for the Alan Cup too.

Norman,
Since you favor putts per gir rather tha total putts per round, we'll see how mw's average will be in the next tournaments. I recall that MW's avg was 1.81 at the nabisco this year, and 1.57 at the women's open. So, yes there is a big difference in putts per gir between past tournaments and the us open. I am sure mw's average will go back to 1.80 and over.

Brian, Who asked you? If you don't have a dog in this fight, take the advice of an oldtimer and butt out.

Judge Smails, Check out the post from patrick. If that is any indication of his level of incompetence, perhaps he and Norman could form a tag team for the Alan Cup competition. Or maybe Brian could join them for a threesome. Sort of an internet blogging version of the Three Stooges.

I believe Annika became a Naturalized US Citizen of the 14th of June this year. Don't expect her to play for the USA in any events as she will still continue to represent Sweden.

One-Putt, That is the exact same thing as I posted on 07/03/06 at 08:08, nothing more. Then my friend Norman decided to make a cause celebre out of it. You previously asked if dual citizenship is in fact legal, or words to that effect. More than one million people in this country have dual citizenship and the number worldwide is probably in the tens of millions. My own wife has dual citizenship (US and Slovak Republic) and I qualify for the same dual citizenship if I ever choose to apply. Incidentally, unlike Annika Sorenstam we are both natural-born US citizens. The greatest percentage of any country's people that have dual citizenship is Israel. Virtually any person born a Jew can become an Israeli citizen. The civics lesson is now concluded.:-)

Alex,
I'd like to compliment you on keeping the same username. I wonder why Under Par felt the need to change his.

I am still unsure as to why you are pursuing the citizenship issue.
The fact is that most of the Korean players who are lpga players will be setting up residence in the US because that's where the lpga tour plays. Are you going to try to claim all those as US players as well?

The topic started as to someone saying that a US player has not won the US Womens Open in some time.
That has not changed.

Norman, If you had read my previous post, you would have discovered that I have already moved beyond that bit of extraneous and trivial nonsense. I respectfully suggest that do the same.

Normy,

I changed my username because variety is the spice of life.

I must have misread something here Alex:

The Oath of Allegiance

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law;
that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law;

and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Or maybe Alex there is a special dual-citizenship oath I'm not aware of?

One-Putt, No, you didn't misread the oath. That is the oath that all new naturalized citizens take. If, prior to taking the oath, a new citizen makes known through a rather complicated set of rules,that he or she desires to retain his citizenship in the country in which he previously resided, the provisions in the first paragraph of the oath can be waived, and quite often are waived. One proviso is that the country of dual citizenship must be one that is on friendly terms with the US. For instance, no one can have dual citizenship in the US and either North Korea or Iran. Immediately after the US declared war on Germany in WWII, US citizens with dual citizenship with Germany were forced to renounce in writing their allegiance to Germany or face deportation. If native born many faced internment. Two attorneys in my firm have dual citizenship with the UK.

One-Putt, My final word on this citizenship thing is that even if a person has dual citizenship, in the US he or she is completely under the jurisdiction of US laws and has no recourse with any foreign embassy. Sometime in the '60's, the US Supreme Court made several decisions concerning dual citizenship, but there are still several gray areas. It is mostly up to the immigration officers in local points of entry to enforce US laws as they see fit. There is some info on this subject in libraries and on the internet, but much of it is confusing and contradictory.

Alex...

The word "attorney" is what is screwing up this great country...coupled with the word "politician"...