« It's an upside-down leaderboard at the Weetabix Women's British OpenWill Michelle Wie make the cut at the John Deere Classic? (Warning: spoiler alert!) »

140 comments

Comment from: Smudge [Visitor]
Please. This is getting old. Now the whiney one has felt the true heat of being completely outclassed and it was that heat that got the better of her.
07/14/06 @ 18:38
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
It would be amazing to me if someone who grew up in Hawaii had a problem with heat exhaustion. The hi in Honolulu yesterday was 87 degrees and the average for the day is 88. But then again, apparently, there are no bugs in Hawii either.
07/14/06 @ 18:43
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
I'll give Michelle the benefit of the doubt and wish her a speedy recovery.
07/14/06 @ 18:46
Comment from: Tony [Visitor]
All the talent in the world can't compensate for demons between the ears. Unfortunately, I think she's quickly beoming acquainted with a few. And, if I hear one more person say "let's not forget she's only 16"...no one could possibly forget; we're reminded several times during any discussion.
07/14/06 @ 18:46
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Let the Wie Bashers come out with their crap.

It shows them for what they are.

Michelle aquited herself very well in the 2nd round. She played to hole 8 in even par, despite being in obvious discomfort. She could barely even keep up walking with her playing partners, and sat down at any opportunity she got.

She is true class, but sometimes it's better to take the medical advice.

It's interesting that the Wie Bashers have been showing their level of class on this and your other blog Jennifer.
Let them continue to show what they are made of.
07/14/06 @ 18:58
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Another WASTED exemption!!!!
07/14/06 @ 18:58
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Countdown to the inevitable Baldwin/McDonald bashing of Wie...

T-minus 4 hours and counting...
07/14/06 @ 19:01
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Wanna make a prediction on whether or not Wie-Wee will recover in time for the LPGA Open?

Go ahead - push your luck.

Maybe she'll start to pack a bottle of "fake puke" in her bag for a more realistic effect.
07/14/06 @ 19:04
Comment from: Karen M [Visitor]
Gentlemen, gentlemen, (and I use the term loosely), your jealousy is showing. And it's not pretty. It's time to go back into your double wide. Note that she is the FIFTH player to withdraw. If some guy withdrew with the same symptoms, would you be complaining? Of course not. And of course, to further explain it to you, that means that FOUR other players dropped out before her, and they were all MEN? Several have complained of the combination heat and brutal humidity. The idea of criticizing her for this, when she was clearly acquitting herself well (better than many players with penises) is just absurd. Sadly, it's not surprising. Grow up.
07/14/06 @ 19:11
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Gosh, I feel so... cheap.

The AP report says "The temperature Friday afternoon was 88, with the sun and humidity making it feel as if it was five degrees warmer. Wie teed off shortly before 2 p.m. CDT, and appeared fine for the first four holes. But Shnurman said she began feeling sick before the round, and got worse as the day went on.

"We've had several cases of heat-related illness, but mostly spectators," Shnurman said. "We haven't treated any other players with this type of condition."

In other words, none of the penis-laden players succumbed to the heat. Only the estrogen-handicapped Wie collapsed, emotionally, physically, and golf-ingly.
07/14/06 @ 19:15
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Side note: The AP article was written by someone named Nancy Armour, who might be a man, but I doubt it.

Side note 2: This blog claiming that Wie was the "fifth player to withdraw from the John Deere Classic" was written by Jennifer Mario, who might have an ulterior motive to sugarcoating Wie's failures (i.e. a BOOK). My guess is that she's the fifth person EVER to withdraw from the John Deere, but Mario's insertion of that ordinal into her blog is an overt attempt to fool the reader into thinking that four others dropped out of THIS iteration.
07/14/06 @ 19:21
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
I thought a "Champion" had to win something? So far, Wie-Wee has failed to make any cuts on the PGA and has no wins in the LPGA for that matter. No, I don't see any "Champion" material there.
07/14/06 @ 19:27
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member] Email
Todd, you guess wrong. Wie is indeed one of five players of this year's John Deere Classic to withdraw (to date). The other four are PGA Tour pros Jonathan Kaye, Pat Perez, Andrew Magee, and Steve Lowery. No reasons have been given for their WD's.
07/14/06 @ 19:46
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Yeah, but your implication was that the others all WD due to the heat, which is clearly not the case. Lowery's reason for WD is the most obvious... Wie was beating him. If the others turn out to be heat-related, I'll apologize to you here.
07/14/06 @ 19:49
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member] Email
I don't see where I implied any causes for their WDs. The only implication I made is that she's not the only one to withdraw. It happens.
07/14/06 @ 20:10
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Call me amazed. Just read the press release. It was heat exhaustion. Lived in Florida, Texas, California, and been to Hawaii......I don't get it.
07/14/06 @ 20:20
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Jennifer, there is no justification for the type of slurs and accusations that these "gentlemen????" are posting here.

What a sad demonstration of their right to comment.

As for Tim in his blog..... I don't believe that he has a medical degree, is possibly thousands of miles away from her and yet he has diagnosed her and made recommendations already.
Practicing medecine without a license, no less. Even "???Journalists???" such as he is??? should be barred from prescribing. He isn't even fit to be called a clown.
07/14/06 @ 20:24
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Seems to me her caddie probably had it worse on a hot day like today. How many caddies withdrew today?
07/14/06 @ 20:38
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
I just said this on Micky D's blog, but my first thought was that it was stress-induced. Of course, that may not be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. She has often felt the "heat" in competition, and her repeated inability to do what she has billed herself as being capable of may be causing some deep emotional distress.
07/14/06 @ 20:43
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
By the way, Jenny, you could have "scratched that last post" after Thursday's round.

What took ya so long, girl?
07/14/06 @ 20:55
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Tiger in an interview after the PGA Championship last year.

TIGER WOODS: "You know, I hear guys all the time saying I'm tired after playing 18 holes. How could you be tired after playing golf? You should never be tired playing golf. It's just 18 holes. I think that's how I treat golf; it's a sport, it's not an activity. A lot of people do; they are not in shape, they don't take it seriously. But I came from a different background. I used to run track and cross-country so that's a different background. I had to be in shape and I had to run all the time. That's kind of my mentality."

Can we stop comparing Wie to Tiger now? Please?
07/14/06 @ 21:17
Comment from: Anne [Visitor]
I thought a reasonable medical assessment is due so I'm adding my comments on a golf blog. Heat exhaustion is a real physical illness. People who live in humidity can cope with the combo heat and humidity far better than those who come from the dry heat season. My relatives from California and Hawaii no longer comes East during summer time because invariably, someone would be physically sick. California has dry heat, the mid-West, southeast and along the East coast are notoriously humid and hot during the summer.
07/14/06 @ 21:27
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Anne......If you think Hawaii is dry heat, then you need a reassessment of your medical credentials.

The dew point in Moline at the time M.W. walked off the course was virtually the same as it was in Hawaii at the same time. The temperatures were only a few degrees off. Plus as I recall, she just came from spending the last month on the east coast.

Is acclimated a term you are familiar with?
07/14/06 @ 21:43
Comment from: Vistitor 2 [Visitor]
It is pretty sad that Wie's parents, Nike, the media, certain tournaments and Wie herself have placed her in this position. It is clear that she is not ready or deserving to be in the position that she is in. She and those around her have decided to make her a professional. As a result, she must be subject to the scrutiny and criticism that accompanies that status. Professionals in all fields are required to produce without excuse. Being 16, the heat, just trying is admirable are all excuses and irrelevant. With all due respect to Ms. Mario "The Making of a Champion" seems to be at best premature and at worst ludicrous. Can you imagine champions like Martina Navritilova, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Annika Sorenstam or Nancy Lopez being carried off on a stretcher because of the heat? We saw the champion Jordan respond in the NBA finals. Again, while Wie herself is partially to blame, there is more than enough to go around including to those who would thrust the "champion" label onto her. What a sad, sad, state of affairs. I too hope that there are better days ahead but have seen many more instances of exploited child celebrities ending sadly.
07/14/06 @ 21:54
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Wierdos unite!!!!!!!!!

Your not going to put up with anything resembling honest assesment, are you?

Let's see a little foam in those mouths warriors
07/14/06 @ 22:05
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
The year is 2016 and Miss Wie has just failed to make the cut in a PGA event for the 42nd time. She was quoted as saying "Well, I thought I really played awesome today except for the three out of bounds and the four three putt greens." "I feel that my game is almost there...I only have a few things to work on."
07/14/06 @ 23:26
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
NWS Zone Forecast neophytes:

HOT AND HUMID CONDITIONS WILL AFFECT THE AREA SATURDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY. AFTERNOON TEMPERATURES ARE FORECAST TO BE IN THE MID TO UPPER 90S THIS WEEKEND...AND ALONG WITH THE HUMIDITY...HEAT INDEX VALUES MAY REACH 105 TO 110 DEGREES. ALSO...DUE TO THE HUMIDITY...
NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES WILL LINGER IN THE 70S ACROSS MUCH OF THE AREA...PROVIDING LITTLE RELIEF FROM THE DAYTIME HEAT. EXCESSIVE HEAT CAN BE DEADLY...BE PREPARED TO KEEP COOL AND HYDRATED.

There will be a few more withdrawing this weekend folks with 95 degree temps and 90 percent humidity (This ain't Hawaii weather).
07/14/06 @ 23:51
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Anne......If you think Hawaii is dry heat, then you need a reassessment of your medical credentials.

The dew point in Moline at the time M.W. walked off the course was virtually the same as it was in Hawaii at the same time. The temperatures were only a few degrees off. Plus as I recall, she just came from spending the last month on the east coast.

Is acclimated a term you are familiar with?"

Is Trade Winds a term you are familiar with strange Visitor from another Universe?

I'm getting a case of jock rash just thinking about that Midwest weather. Thank God I live in Hawaii with the TRADE WINDS. Say WOWWIE for Maui.
07/15/06 @ 00:02
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Smokin' a little too much of that Maui Wowwie and Kona Gold, one-putt? Don't roll it in your jock. It causes delusions.
07/15/06 @ 00:13
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Smokin' a little too much of that Maui Wowwie and Kona Gold, one-putt? Don't roll it in your jock. It causes delusions."

I wouldn't know Doug, but I will take your word for it based on your own experiences.

I forgot the space in between Wow and Wie. She is our Home Girl after all.
07/15/06 @ 00:17
Comment from: hc2 [Visitor]
I think MW in the PGA Tour is getting overboard. She should stick to the Men's Hooters tours; Asian tour or Canadian Tour in addition to the LPGA. When she grows up into late teens/early 20's; then dabble on the PGA. Too much, too soon right now. Daddie Wie seems worried now, hopefully he'll wake up to reality and see that patience is a virtue worth having; and that 16 is just too young regardless of talent.
07/15/06 @ 00:33
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
Michelle withdrew, big deal. She was not going to make the cut, so who cares. She had no business being there in the first place. This entire conversation/argument is not worth waging. Michelle does not have the game or the stamina to compete on the PGA tour.
07/15/06 @ 01:17
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Hey, Jennifer Mario:

Are you a liar?

Or do you just not bother with inconveniences such as fact-checks?

Or do you deliberately try to twist the truth with carefully-placed phrases?

Or are you just a lousy writer in need of remedial English?

You said:
*****
[Wie] just became the fifth player to withdraw from the John Deere Classic?at +2 after nine holes, she left the course in obvious pain and apparent nausea, and was taken to a hospital.
*****


But reality, according to AP, was:

*****
We've had several cases of heat-related illness, but mostly spectators," said Dr. Benjamin Shnurman, a physician and tournament medical staff volunteer who treated Wie. "We haven't treated any other players with this type of condition."
*****

Which are you, Jenny? Propogandist, illiterate, or bozo?

I suspect you don't have the courage to reply.

One wonders how accurate your book is.

-George
07/15/06 @ 01:32
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Hey, One-putt, take a gander at the following.

"We've had several cases of heat-related illness, but mostly spectators," said Dr. Benjamin Shnurman, a physician and tournament medical staff volunteer who treated Wie. "We haven't treated any other players with this type of condition."

Can you assimilate this simple piece of information, Putty?
07/15/06 @ 02:02
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
You guys actually believe what the AP reports? There really is no help for you.
07/15/06 @ 05:13
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Heat index today at John Deere 113 degrees. Forecasted heat indexes for Saturday and Sunday 119 degrees.

Of course this would be nothing for the Hard Cases of the Wie Haters to deal with. They would play until they dropped dead. I'm glad Michelle, her parents and the Doctor they met with on the field had better sense than you guys.

The Doctor may not have met with the other players who withdrew thus was ignorant of the reason they left play. One guy had carded a 70 in the first round and another a 72, so I don't think it was bad play that made them leave the field.
07/15/06 @ 05:26
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Smokin' a little too much of that Maui Wowwie and Kona Gold, one-putt? Don't roll it in your jock. It causes delusions.
********************
Yeah, and I heard it stunts the growth of your pecker.
07/15/06 @ 05:44
Comment from: David [Visitor]
Everybody, just stop taking a pop at Michelle. She's only 16 for godsake.
07/15/06 @ 06:14
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
It's hard not to realize the pressure MW is under when reading all these posts...like David says, she's only 16. Most people her age wouldn't be handling all this as well. That being said, I think her 'handlers' have made some serious mistakes along the way. If she keeps losing or dropping out of events, her mental game won't develop to the point where she goes in expecting to win every time like Tiger.
07/15/06 @ 08:09
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Putty,

Congratulations! To the best of my judgement, you're inching ahead in the Alan Cup Competition. Now the AP is spinning the news about heat related illness on the golf course for the purposes of painting Bubbles in a bad light. That's precious. Alex, please ensure that the committee is apprised of this gem.

Of course, some would point out that there are a handful of withdrawals from every PGA event and that they seldom, if ever, involve heat related illness. But, oh, yes, I forgot, this could be misinformation too. And I'm sure it's not possible that those men had family emergencies or experienced illness of some other variety.

Putty, you're starting to distinguish yourself from the competition. This formulaic devotion to your Wie-zeal creed rivals in intensity that of any ardent Communist Party member. Bravo, comrade, bravo!
07/15/06 @ 08:22
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member] Email
George, I've already explained this to ToddCommish in the comments, but if you really need me to, I'll say it again more slowly.

PGA Tour pro Steve Lowery withdrew after playing just 12 holes of Round 1.

PGA Tour Pro Jonathan Kaye withdrew after completing Round 1.

Pro Pat Perez withdrew after completing 6 holes of Round 2 yesterday.

Pro Andrew Magee, like Michelle, withdrew after 9 holes of the second round yesterday.

Michelle makes five.

As I said above, no reasons have been given for their withdrawals. Maybe they felt the heat. Maybe they got hurt. Maybe they were bored and wanted to go home.

But the fact that they withdrew is not in dispute. Not sure why you and ToddCommish are so upset that Michelle's not the only player to withdraw from this event.

In the meantime, don't talk to me about courage until you're willing to use your real name, first and last.
07/15/06 @ 08:45
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
One-Putt, For quite some time I have thought of you as a voice of some reason among the delusional, hard core Wie-wee's. At times, you displayed a smattering of good-natured wit. But this latest caper orchestraed by BJ and performed by Bubbles seems to have pushed you over the edge. You have become pugnacious, hardly a trait expected from a man from the friendly isle of Maui. You even threatened to tear off Ford's head and urinate down his throat. How gauche! And yout latest new-found avocation seems to be that of a meteorologist. For a resident of Maui where virtually every day's weather is the same as the previous day's, you profess to know an awful lot about Midwest weather. It is no hotter this summer than in any other of my 61 Midwest summers. I have a 10:00 AM tee time today at my club in the Chicago area. The temperature is going to be in the low 90's by afternoon. So what? O-P, when the temp in the Midwest goes above 90, the humidity invariably has a corresponding drop to 50% or less. The tall tales of 95 degress Fahrenheit accompanied with 90% humidity are nothing more than grossly exaggerated urban myths.
07/15/06 @ 08:48
Comment from: golfpro [Visitor]
If Michelle had been -8, rather than +8, I think she would have been just fine. It is quite apparent that she has some growing up to first. The way she treats her caddie and her fellow players and the gallery is more like a petulant little child than a winning champion.
Until she learns that winning has more to do with mental skills rather physical skills, and that a 'winner' is defined more by her attitude than by the hype;
then she will always be an also-ran.
07/15/06 @ 09:38
Comment from: george valdez [Visitor]
*****
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member]
George, I've already explained this to ToddCommish in the comments, but if you really need me to, I'll say it again more slowly.

PGA Tour pro Steve Lowery withdrew after playing just 12 holes of Round 1.

PGA Tour Pro Jonathan Kaye withdrew after completing Round 1.

Pro Pat Perez withdrew after completing 6 holes of Round 2 yesterday.

Pro Andrew Magee, like Michelle, withdrew after 9 holes of the second round yesterday.

Michelle makes five.

As I said above, no reasons have been given for their withdrawals. Maybe they felt the heat. Maybe they got hurt. Maybe they were bored and wanted to go home.

But the fact that they withdrew is not in dispute. Not sure why you and ToddCommish are so upset that Michelle's not the only player to withdraw from this event.

*****

OK, so then we have it down to you are a lousy writer or a propagandist.

Because the context of your post was Michelle Wie withdrawing due to some sort of physical, heat-related ailment, or some other debilitating condition.

As you spin things, you point out that Michelle was the fifth to withdraw. You did not qualify that information when you scribbled your post.

The clear inference you wish people to draw -- and clearly your fellow Wie lackey One-Putt fell for your spin -- was that Michelle was not alone when she succumbed to the hellish, Venus-like conditions on the course.

Nice try, Jenny. You failed, though, despite the attempt to create a new cover story.

Bottom line: Your slip-shod reporting and writing -- whether deliberate or accidental -- still calls into question the accuracy of your book.

Try being a real journalist first before attempting to play one on the Internet. You might cut yourself.


*****
In the meantime, don't talk to me about courage until you're willing to use your real name, first and last.
*****

Stalking much? Can you saw "Yeech!!!" That's no way to try to get a date with me. Still, check above, Jenny.

-George
07/15/06 @ 11:44
Comment from: Shanks [Member] Email
Weather sidebar: I live in the Washington DC area where the combination of heat & humidity is legendary. One of the dumbest sightseeing choices in the world is to come here mid-June thru mid-August. If you want to sample the fantastic US Capitol, do it Spring or Fall.

I don't know what it was like at the John Deere - comparitively speaking - but if it was anything like it is here right now, you could easily succumb to it if you weren't properly hydrated. I've made that mistake a couple of times before on the golf course, becoming nauseous & dizzy. Also a possible complication would be the internal workings of the female body - although I'm sure the news people won't get into that. So don't be so quick to discount that as the real situation with Wie yesterday.
07/15/06 @ 12:23
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jennifer... because when you initially read your article, one comes away with the idea that since MW withdrew because of heat, the others did to. It appears that you were trying to soften her withdrawing... but then again, we all know you are one of her most ardent supporters and would never say a word against her. It's all how you say it... take the old cold war example of the US and USSR in a race... The story was presented as the Soviets strong performance coming in one position out of the lead whereas the dismal US peformance was one spot out of last place... actual results would have been US in 1st, Soviets in 2nd. Both were technically true (for this fictional example)... oh well, you get the picture.
07/15/06 @ 12:40
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
What Mario did is typical of how media people operate.
07/15/06 @ 14:02
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
I love the way Jen takes a patronizing tone in her postings. Like we can't distinguish the journalistic bankruptcy of a paid Wie propagandist... If you want to sell your book, fine. Most of us understand the financial benefits of selling a product. But don't patronize those of us that recognize your hype and spin machine and call it like we see it.

Just admit it. You'll feel better.
07/15/06 @ 14:06
Comment from: housewife [Visitor]
Everybody, just let it go. Give Mihcelle a break. I live in Midwest, and the weather has been 90-100 degree this week. I run for an hour everyday at about 8 pm, and I decided not to do it on Friday just to be on the safe side.

I think that we all want to believe that humans have unlimited potentials, thus we can never get enough of Superman and Spiderman stories, and we want to believe that Lance Armstrong really beat cancer and could win at his will. For a while I also wanted to believe that Michelle was a superwomen and could withstand all this impossible pressure and perform, even though a reasoned voice in the back of my mind says that if she is a human being, then she couldn't possibly fullfil what the hype expects her to do. I think her illness just proved that she is a human being after all and human conditions affect her as well as everyone else. Just give her a break, whether you have supported her or not. Not all support is good--it is a form of pressure, too; and taking pleasure in her illness and failure in meeting impossible expectations says more about you as a person than what she did.

Again, give Michelle Wie a break, just out of human decency.
07/15/06 @ 14:19
Comment from: PJ [Visitor]
George --

Pardon me, but I don't understand the dispute. Maybe you can shed some light for me --

Where are these lies? Unless I'm misreading, Jenny reported that Wie withdrew, and she was the fifth to do so --

Is this not an accurate statement? What's your issue?
07/15/06 @ 14:24
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
You are right she must be out of condition or just tanked the event. I'm sure she was faking the illness.

Do you folks even realize how low you can go?

Alex I can expect this from you since your profession is full of Bottom Feeders, but George surprises me since he has stated he coached young woman in the past. What would you have done George if one of your charges was obviously having the same problems? Leave them in the game until they dropped dead?

I'm glad the Doctor and Wies had more sense than you folks.
07/15/06 @ 14:31
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Michelle Wie was sick to her stomach. Because she was sick to her stomach, she drank only water, not an electrolyte solution. In milder conditions she might have been able to play sick--but under these conditions she needed the electrolyte solution, and without it she could not complete the round.

I would like to commend FORD for his reasonable position on Michelle Wie's withdrawl.




07/15/06 @ 16:03
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Putty,

Obviously, by juxtaposing those two things, Mario led certain readers to believe that the other players withdrew for the same reason. Duh.
07/15/06 @ 16:03
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member] Email
George Valdez, congrats on supplying a whole name for your mom, children, and potential employers to see. I have very little respect for negative posters who remain anonymous.

Had I written, "The heat claimed its fifth victim today," perhaps I could be accused of the lies and/or propaganda you're attributing to me.

But I said five people quit, including Michelle. That's called providing context.

Judge, perhaps you can tell us how to include information without "juxtaposing" it. By definition, blogs juxtapose several pieces of information. If they're any good, anyway.

Meanwhile, here's some more juxtaposed context for you: Last weekend at the Cialis Western Open, no players withdrew. Two weeks ago at the Buick Championship, two players withdrew, Jason Gore and Jose Coceras. The John Deere saw five withdraw.

As I said before, it happens.
07/15/06 @ 16:30
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
It sounds like the humidity may not have been that high. Indeed, the humidity may have been lower than what Michelle Wie faces back in Hawaii.

Guess what. The problem may have been that the humnidity was lower than what the Wies were sued to.

With high humidity it is hard to cool yourself by sweating. With lower humidy, the body sweats more. That means less problems with temoperature, but the body is losing salt at a faster rate than would be the case with higher humidity.

Michelle Wie's failure to drink electrolyte solution was a big problem because the humidity was low enough for her to lose a lot of salt though sweating.
07/15/06 @ 16:47
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
"Providing context" would be printing the comments of the medical staff who said that no other players were treated for heat.

Assuming it was heat exhaustion and/or dehydration, it's hard to tell if it's her caddie's fault or her parents' fault for not ensuring she got the proper fluids. After all, if you're riding a horse, you should make sure the horse is properly fed before running it into the ground. If you're a parent, you should be more worried about taking care of your child than milking your meal ticket.
07/15/06 @ 17:22
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
wow. this must be like Christmas for the haters and naysayers. they're so giddy they are beside themselves. Michelle is down so lets really get her.LOL. what a bunch of cowards.
MW was feeling ill before she even teed off. the illness and the heat combined forced her to withdraw. for all you haters, i am not making this up just in case you want to accuse me of lying too.
just in case nobody is keeping score, MW has competed in a handfull of PGA tournaments, just missing the cut in a few of them. she withdraws from this one and all of a sudden she's a quitter, has no stamina and if we believe the haters, doesn't even know how to play golf now. boy, you guys are even dumber than your mama thought.
this is all about the guys being worried that a sixteen year old girl might actually start making the cut at PGA tournaments. this is about guys feeling that MW doesn't DESERVE to be out there because she didn't earn it. well boo hoo. its no skin off your ass so what do you care? there's a bunch of exemptions given out in every tournament. why don't you complain about the other guys who got exemptions.
and its not the money. you clowns were criticizing her way before she got the money. just a bunch of petty, angry jerks, i guess. but i shouldn't have to tell you that cause your mama probably does already.
07/15/06 @ 17:23
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Must be great to have a guy like Andy on your side, eh, Jen?
07/15/06 @ 17:36
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
andy, You do know where your capital key is, you just don't know when to use it. Your post has to rank as one of the most dim-witted ever to grace these blogs. Your lack of even basic common sense will serve to disqualify you from consideration for the Alan Cup. When your educational level reaches third grade, try again for Alan points.
07/15/06 @ 17:41
Comment from: Jennifer Mario [Member] Email
ToddCommish wrote:
""Providing context" would be printing the comments of the medical staff who said that no other players were treated for heat."

Todd, I can't argue with you there. But those comments hadn't yet been released when I wrote the post, so it would've been hard for me to include them.
07/15/06 @ 17:43
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
So Alex and George what did you shoot today? Did you walk or ride during your round? I rode for a change today since the humidity was a 110 percent (ok a 100 it was raining).

Did anyone watch the Farr with the white water running thru the 18th fairway? Nobody will play out of that hazard.

I was pleased to see Paula and Natalie are on the top of the leaderboard. Annika is a few shots back, but very much in the hunt.

07/15/06 @ 17:51
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
andy, our opinion of Bubbles is no skin off your butt, so why do YOU care?
07/15/06 @ 18:12
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
hey, who edited my post?
actually Alex, i went all the way to sixth grade. i have used the capital key on a few occasions but must admit that i am too lazy to use it all the time.
and i have probably made posts here just as dim-witted if not more so. hey, if you can have judge smells and john-d make idiotic comment then why can't i? by the way, i never see you criticize those two.
in the meantime, why don't you expound on why i lack common sense. i thought i brought up a couple of good points. if they're so dumb, you should be able to rip them to shreds.
too bad they edited my original post. then you would see what i really think of you clowns.
07/15/06 @ 18:28
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
hey, who edited my post?
07/15/06 @ 18:31
Comment from: Stacy [Visitor]
Michelle Wie was a bit queasy at the Sony Open too...

http://thesandtrap.com/archives/pga/wie_washes_out_in_hawaii.php

I think it's all pressure-related. Michelle knows what to do in the heat. Drink plenty of fluids!!
07/15/06 @ 18:41
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Hey Andy - "Up Yours!"

As I've said before, We have to write at a third grade level, in hopes that you (and the likes of you) may comprehend. But, so far, it obviously must not be sinking in.
07/15/06 @ 19:07
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
oh johnny boy. that's not nice. how rude of you.
as i said, i went to the sixth grade, moron. but even that is above your level. i think it is you that cannot comprehend.
up mine? its you that's the a-hole sweet cheeks. LOL

07/15/06 @ 19:57
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
One-Putt said:

"So Alex and George what did you shoot today? Did you walk or ride during your round? I rode for a change today since the humidity was a 110 percent (ok a 100 it was raining)."
......................................

That's funny One-Putt, weather.com says the humidity in Hawaii is 72% right now. Exaggerating again, are we?

That's why you should always use the dew point when comparing the humidity in places with different temperatures. The dew point is the temperature at which humidity would be 100%. When the dew point matches the outside temperature, condensation occurs and everything is literally dripping.

Alex was perfectly correct when he said:

"The tall tales of 95 degrees Fahrenheit accompanied with 90% humidity are nothing more than grossly exaggerated urban myths."

That's why I stand by my claim that the humidity at the John Deere should be nothing more than M.W. is used to growing up in Hawaii.

I would be more than happy to address your "trade wind" claim if you wish, if you desire further education. I do have a degree in Science.
07/15/06 @ 21:47
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
andy, You asked "Why do I lack common sense?" My considered answer, without trying to be snide or insulting is this: Your mother and father also lacked common sense. Your grandparents, both paternal and maternal, similarly lacked common sense. It is what's known as genetics, heredity, if you will. You are a dummy because your parents and grandparents were also dummies. I feel sorry for you, I empathize with you, I wish you had common sense, but I don't have the power to make it happen. No, barring any miracles of science, you will be a moron until you leave this earth. But don't feel bad. You have a lor of company. Just read these blogs.
07/15/06 @ 22:48
Comment from: AhhSoo [Visitor]
Wow... Alex and the other Alan Cup committee members have disqualified andy from tournament participation due to "a less than 3rd grade education level."

cannine lover... you there?

cannine lover, this thinning of the field improves our chances for the championship. Looks promising for a Sunday pairing for us both, don't you think?

Now, if I could only improve on my 4th grade education level, I might give cannine lover a run for the $, silver cup & bouquet of roses. Speaking of which, what is the winner's share of the purse for the Alan Cup? Ehh Alex?
07/16/06 @ 00:06
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
actually, alex. i have probably fallen far from the family tree. so yes, i might be a dummy. but to insult my parents and grandparents is pretty low. i would expect as much from your compadres, being crude and ignorant as they are, but you? i'm kind of disappointed. c'mon alex.
i mean the best you can do is call me a dummy because of my genetics?
i so wanted you to dispute my original post and prove me wrong. show me your anti-MW higher intelligence.
sheesh. you boys can call a sixteen year old girl names and say other nasty things about her, but when i call you a few names, you lose all of your higher train of thought. i guess you can dish it out but can't take it.
oh by the way. the word i had originally called you guys (before the pc police edited it) rhymes with maggot and begins with f. but i guess i was wrong because you GIRLS got no balls. REALLY LOL.
07/16/06 @ 02:44
Comment from: AhhSoo [Visitor]
Don't fret andy. The same Wie-bashers call me A$$hole and the "pc police" removed the "ss" and replaced with "**". I'm using the "$$" here so that John D would be happy and to ensure that the "pc police" (travelgolf.com editors) would not arise from their slumber.

Ahh... george, please continue to restrain yourself as I'M NOT WHINING ABOUT IT!

You know andy, we don't want to wake the Wie-bashers up too early this morn as they need their rest for TV watching of the JDC & JFC later today. Grouchy old men they be!

I agree, though, that belittling your parents and grand parents is unacceptable. But that's the Wie-basher modus operandi... bash everyone that disagrees with their OPINIONS.
07/16/06 @ 03:04
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
One-Putt said:

"So Alex and George what did you shoot today? Did you walk or ride during your round? I rode for a change today since the humidity was a 110 percent (ok a 100 it was raining)."
......................................

That's funny One-Putt, weather.com says the humidity in Hawaii is 72% right now. Exaggerating again, are we?"

Quite a Dective you are Visitor from another Planet. Unfortunately you are a seven and a half hour flight from Honolulu off target from where I am staying and playing golf now.

So dig out your Dick Tracy detective kit you got for six box tops and try to figure out where I am. But I can guarantee Strange Visitor it was raining today and most everyday this time of year.

07/16/06 @ 06:25
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
By referring to Andy, his parents, and his grandparents as dolts, morons, imbeciles and/or idiots, I am not in any way insulting them, and ,of course, no insult is intended. Andy and his immediate ancestors might very well be nice people, able to bathe themselves, perform simple tasks like stringing beads, and come in out of the rain. The thing to remember is that Andy, by his own recognition and his practically unintelligible blogs, has shown that he is a dunce of the first order. And since it is virtually impossible for a man and a woman of better than average intelligence to produce such a dim-witted offspring, they must also be dunces. There is nothing disparaging meant by this statement, it is quite simply a fact.
07/16/06 @ 09:14
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
nice one alex. not much as far as content. but pretty good as a putdown. and all the things i said before, nothing personal. no insult intended. you sound like a decent, educated guy who likes to pick on young asian girls for whatever reason. could be jealousy, certain inadequacies that you feel about yourself or anger at women in general. its not for me to say or judge. i wish you the best.
oh, by the way, i won't tell anybody that you're gay.....oops. sorry. i guess i am a dummy after all.
07/16/06 @ 15:02
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
One-Putt....Bad news KimoSabi. Just because it is raining in Hawaii does not mean that the humidity is 100%.

Listen and learn, oh young one.

The next time you leave home to golf, as we all love to do, check the humidity, I guarantee that as the day goes on, it will get hotter, and the humidity will drop. That's because the most common form of measuring humidity is relative humidity, the measure of how much moisture the air can handle at one time.

Warmer air can hold more moisture than cooler air, therefore as it gets warmer the relative humidity drops because, of course, it can hold more moisture. That is why the best measure of humidity is the dew point, as I stated previously.

07/17/06 @ 03:52
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Humidity, schmumidity, no one should have problems after only a few holes without having to carry a bag. Emotional factors (anxiety) contributed to her problems.
07/17/06 @ 12:51
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
The fact that out of about 40,000 people on and about the course on Friday, Bubbles was the ONLY one who required an ambulance ride and hospitalization says it all.
07/17/06 @ 15:01
Comment from: Wie fan [Visitor]
All you guys beating up on a 16 year old girl and accusing her of being weak, faking or whatever, your moms must be soooo proud of all of you. Don't forget to send her copies of your blogs.

And Jennifer keep it up.Great responses. Great interview last week. Promote your book. I'm on your side and will buy a copy.

I have just one word for all those anti-Wies out there.

E-N-V-Y
07/17/06 @ 16:17
Comment from: Stephen [Visitor]
I think before people attack and criticize Michelle Wie, age 16, you might reserve the criticisms for Mr. BJ Wie who is apparently the force that pushes and rushes Michelle. No doubt she wants to please her parents and will golf and try her best at any of the tournaments that her parents had booked. I thought it was interesting that on the very day that Michelle was taken by to the hospital, her father, BJ actually was concerned about coming back to John Deere. He seems more preoccupied about next year and he's the one who is rushing his own daughter. Michelle Wie is incredibly talented, and she is still 16 years old regardless of how many adults and LPGA females gang up on her. They should focus their anger and critisms at the father who is controlling Michelle's schedule. It's just a thought that we need to consider because her parents are the ones whom she rely on and trust.
07/17/06 @ 16:36
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Hear all ye by this presence! It has been decreed that Michelle Wie, aka Bubbles, is 16 YEARS OLD! That's 16 YEARS OLD! We've all heard it and I hope it's for the last time.
07/17/06 @ 17:38
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
Stephen,

I hear what you, and others, are saying about BJ Wie. I would agree, except Michelle continues to say that SHE is the one deciding to do these things. It's mentioned in Jen's book, in fact. Granted, she might be saying that even though her father is the driving force (after all, as Alex has reminded us, she is only 16).

But it's hard to say she is not interested in playing in the John Deere or other events when she continues to state that she does want to play.

If it turns out BJ has been driving her against her will or too hard, and Michelle ends up exploding like Capriati or others (again, this is directly discussed in the new book), I am right there with you. Then he would be another in a long line of overzealous sports parents ruining his child's early years.

I hope that is not the case. I love watching her play.
07/17/06 @ 18:18
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
From the beginning, I've questioned the path chosen by BJ Wie for his daughter. It's tiresome to listen to the "Oh, Michelle chooses her own path" bleatings. She's been on THIS path since she was about 13. Clearly, BJ had his sights on a Tiger-like career and impact. One difference (and it ain't talent, because Michelle seems to have tons) is that Earl Woods focused on the mental part of the game, the focus and the determination to not only beat, but dominate your opponent. Talking during Tiger's swing, jingling change, mocking him while he was having trouble, all that stuff toughened Tiger. That part either hasn't been developed yet in Michelle or it just isn't in her.

07/17/06 @ 19:14
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
I hear you Todd. And when a 25-year-old Michelle (possibly as the Comeback Athlete of the Year) tells Ed Bradley that Poppa BJ ruined her life for ten years, I won't be happy or shocked. But until we hear that, it's speculation to say that BJ is driving her and she is being dragged unwilling to the slaughter.

Jason Sobel has some excellent comments up on the whole WD and heat exhaustion and BJ pressing too hard in his recent column:
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/britishopen06/columns/story?columnist=sobel_jason&id=2521538

Don't know if the TG types will let that link stand or not, but if not, go search on ESPN's golf page for Sobel.
07/18/06 @ 00:33
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
I hear you Todd. And when a 25-year-old Michelle (possibly as the Comeback Athlete of the Year)
********************************
I assume you mean"GO BACK" As in Go back to play on the ladies tour, since she cannot win on the men's tour.
07/18/06 @ 05:11
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Alex the fact is Michelle IS sixteen years old. Sixteen year old girls make mistakes, get tummy aches, talk like a 16 year old and yes take ambulance rides when the event laws of the state they are playing in require it.

Now Michelle may never reach the Pinnacle of Success like George, Ford and you have Alex, but she is giving it a go. When the LPGA set their exemption limit to six and the age limit to join at eighteen where was she to go to play professional golf? Hey as far as I know her options were limited to the men's tour unless you expect her to play for skins at your country club Alex.

Nancy Lopez says she should play on the ladies tour more. Now how in the hell is that going to happen? Doesn't Nancy know the rules?

I will just continue to follow Michelle's progress at the 84 Lumber, Omega and Casio. Hey maybe she won't make the cut, but she will get the opportunity to play against some professional competition far superior than any of you could put together at the country club.

I never learned one damn thing from anyone on a golf course that had lesser skills than me. There is only one way to raise the level of your game and that is to play the best around. That is simply what Michelle is doing by learning from her mistakes and playing in the tough events. She is gradually developing her gift for the game.

It is just a pity that the media, some fans and bloggers are not satisfied with her play at SIXTEEN YEARS OF AGE. Hey her parents still love her even if she doesn't win or withdraws from an event.




07/18/06 @ 08:22
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
I'll gladly open a spot in my foursome for Michelle. In fact One-Putt, let's see if we can do that this week. Why don't you come too, you can try to "rip my head off" after the round. The weather forecast is calling for temperatures to near 100 degrees, just the way Michelle likes it. She might actually learn something, and tell her to bring her substantial checkbook, she'll need it.

You make it sound like Michelle is playing Basketball or Tennis or any sport in which you are in direct physical competition with an opponnent. Maybe in these areanas I could buy the, "she's playing against the best argument", but in golf the course and to some extent you are you're only opponent. Getting her brains beaten in by courses that are too difficult and getting lapped by a field which is clearly superior teaches Michelle only one thing; how to lose and she already has a lot of experience with that.

Michelle has every right to search for a game where she can find one, just don't try to convince me that playing on the PGA tour is helping her development.

You know there are some that would argue that there is a reason why they have age limits and limited playing opportunities for those under 18--Mental and physical acuity being a big part of it. Michelle strengthen her mental toughness and her physical stamina, Nah!
07/18/06 @ 09:07
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
A good point about the 18 age limit and development of physical and mental fortitude, Ford. I agree - and to Gove's point, she needs to keep up with the pace of play and other standards if she is going to play in tour events. I still think Gove was scapegoating with his carping (the third member of the group didn't have comments on this - strangely he was the only one to play well; perhaps Gove should focus on his game more than the extraneous issues), but the point is valid. If Michelle wants to play on Tour like 18+ year olds, she needs to show she can handle it.

Which is why this can't happen again. It's an isolated incident right now - could happen to anyone, much as the detractors want to claim that her WD was special to Wie.

As for developing her game on the PGA Tour, I disagree with you. Playing the tougher course setups alone will help her develop the ability to play out of the rough and other difficult situations. The greens are usually faster on men's event courses (or so I have been led to believe, anyway), and she will have to approach with longer clubs, forcing her to work on accuracy and precision with those clubs. On top of the course setup, playing with men will allow her to watch them close up, see how they play various shots and how they manage the course and game.

So I do think playing with the men is helping the development of her game from a technical/physical standpoint. I don't think playing with the men is helping her mental game much right now, though, and ALL golfers need to work on that aspect of their game for their entire careers. Even Teflon Tiger has had mental issues that have taken him out of his winning form. Wie certainly needs to work on that part of her game, and the PGA events are not affording her that opportunity as clearly as LPGA events do. Nothing like the final round to work on those issues...
07/18/06 @ 10:30
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Does anyone know if Wie has applied for an age exemption to the LPGA tour? We know they've granted at least one in the past; it would make sense for the Wie-train to at least make the effort. My impression is that they are posturing for a free ticket into the tour, rather than having Michelle play a few rounds and qualify (which we all think she would breeze through). Sometimes, it seems her advisors (parents, agents, etc.) want her to be isolated and resented, deliberately setting her apart from her competition. That might be fine for an adult, but to lay all of that onto a KID is unconscionable.
07/18/06 @ 12:22
Comment from: H823putt [Visitor]
Heat exhaustion... Hawaii? I get visions of the courageous female triathlete crawling across the finish line - you remember -unable to control her body after 2.5 mile swim, 125 mile bike, 25 mile run... in Hawaii!!! Wie was playing golf!!! Will somebody please tell me how a professional athlete can't prepare herself for a five mile walk??? Especially with the support team, sponsors, resources (and money) that backs her. Give me a break. And I don't buy the she's only 16 bull. Who gets heat exhaustion at 16!! Never in my life have I ever seen a 16 year old kid get heat exhaustion. I'm growing more disinterested each day. Let her win - than maybe I might go out to see the circus next time it comes to town.
07/18/06 @ 18:24
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
On one hand the Wie Warriors say, "Bubbles has the swing, the shots, the stamina, the strength , to compete with the men on the PGA tour. She deserves every exemption she gets and it won't be long before she is contending and even winning on the PGA tour. There would have been no point in her ever competing against her teen-age female peers; she was vastly superior to them on the day that she was born. Same thing with the LPGA. She is just too good for the other women, why, she's already number two without winning a thing." BUT, when she pulls one of her many flops, they do a 180. The tune changes to "She is only 16 years old. She acts like a 16 year old. She pouts like a 16 year old. She talks like a 16 year old. She cries like a 16 year old. What do you expect?" As for me, I expect a professional demeanor and much better play.
07/18/06 @ 18:40
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
There's something I'd like confirm here because I wouldn't want to labor under any destructive misconceptions. Bubbles is 16 years old, correct?

It's important that I not descend in to error with respect to this most important piece of information.
07/18/06 @ 23:30
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Judge Smails, Yes, Bubbles is in fact 16 years old. Her DOB is 11Oct 1989 which means that soon she will be 17 years old, at which time the Wie Warriors will change their plaint to "she's only 17 years old, she cries, she pouts, etc., etc., like a 17 year old. What do you expect?" I really appreciated One-Putt's brilliant observation that her mother and father still love her even when she misses a cut or fails to win. That's all the time, isn't it? That's what I like about the Wie Warriors, they have such pertinent and germane points to make when discussing and defending Bubbles.
07/19/06 @ 09:42
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
"Pertinent and germane points..." Very good Alex. Like the ones you are making? Every other post from you (and three out of four from UnderSmails) amounts to "oh, look, everyone is using her age as an excuse again." Just keep hammering away, pounding your "points" and ignoring any discussion. By the way, you can stop reading now and post the "your blog comments are too long, you missed a period in the third paragraph, and you failed to utilize the em dash properly, so your response is clearly the work of an idiot" stock reply.

Ford, Todd, Stephen - you see what I mean? I have been checking back to see if there is any more reasoned discussion to be had about Wie, such as what you three have been engaging in. Unfortunately, Alex, UnderSmails and John D continue to paste the thread with vacuous comments laced with jabs. Other than spewing nastiness, nothing comes from these clowns. And they get in the way of a reasonable discussion of issues.

I guess I am a "Wie Warrior", I don't know though as that's a definition these three and Baldwin and McDonald own the rights to. Being a fan of Michelle, hoping she does well, and not glorying in her mistakes seem to be the only qualifications for this status.

If so, that's OK. I'd still rather be viewed by them as a slackjawed, lobotomized, awestruck moron than as one of their own - a hate monger with nothing to do but post the same tired and nasty comments over and over again. If it's a "you are with me, or against me" situation, put me against, and in the truck with One-putt, putt4par, and the author of the blog. At least they are looking for positives - after all, this is sports we are talking about. As Chief Justice Warren famously said, "I always turn to the sports pages first, which record people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures." Good thing he didn't live in the age of the internet blog. Sites and comments like the ones here would have soured his view on sports.

So, Todd, Ford, and Stephen, know that if I must choose sides, I am on the other side of the aisle. However, it doesn't mean I agree with everything One-Putt, putt4par, or Jennifer Mario have to say. Much as I vote Republican because they are closer to the Libertarian ideals that I would like to see in government, I disagree with MANY things my supposed affiliation as a Wie Warrior would seem to attribute to me. Also similar to political discussions, there is no point trying to have a conversation with zealots on the other side of the issue.

But I don't see things through the zealots eyes - starkly black and white where ever you look. So I am still wading through their fodder to see if there is anything reasonable to continue to discuss with balanced individuals such as yourselves - people who can disagree and debate without resorting to childish antics, high school debate tactics or personal mudslinging when their point of view is not universally accepted.
07/19/06 @ 10:49
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Candace, my dear, don't fret so! Now do you see what all that women's lib nonsense has done to your disposition? You know, Candy, there is nothing criminal about being a shrill, complaining shrew. But there is nothing admirable about it, either. As for your thought that maybe you should be a candidate for a lobotomy, I wouldn't recommend such a severe and irreversible procedure at this point. No, I think your condition can be kept under control with the use of medication, which must be done continually and faithfully. In my opinion, your condition is no more than prolonged PMS with dash of morbid sociopathy thrown in. Candy baby, one question: How do you justify your disdain for Judge's and my "personal mudslinging" with your referring to us enlightened ones as "clowns" and "hatemongers?" Please, Candy, stay on your meds!
07/19/06 @ 11:33
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Candace, don't make too many assumptions about the Wie-Skeptics, currently occupying the middle ground between the Wie-Bashers and the Wie-Warriors. We recognize the talent, but we also recognize the lack of professionalism and maturity, the lack of WINS, and the seeming lack of good career advice for the Wie-that-would-be-King-and-Queen. We're the ones preaching caution for the Warriors claiming that she is the female Tiger-incarnate. We're the ones who question BJ more than we question his daughter because he seems to be an Earl-wannabe with a generous scoop of Macaulay Culkin's parents.

She's a kid. She could be great. I just wonder if they're trying to make her great before she's done being a kid.
07/19/06 @ 11:42
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
No assumptions made, Todd. I think your points are directly valid - she has not won, there are clearly questions in regards to her maturity and professionalism that merit discussion, and the path she has taken and the advice she is being given (or what we can infer about the advice she is receiving, anyway) are clearly open for criticism.

And she is a kid, and she might be great - which is what makes her story compelling. And "they", whether that be her parents or the media or her fans, might be trying to make her great too quickly. No doubt about it, those are valid issues to consider.

On the other side of the ledger, she has had one of the best years of anyone on the LPGA this season - not THE best, but it's hard to argue her season is top ten at this point, and you could argue it's top five - and she has developed certain parts of her game more fully (short game and putting) this season.

It seems to me that she is making a lot of money right now, taking advantage of her situation and the interest in her, and she is competing for the title each week she plays in the LPGA. So starting with the LPGA/Pro question - would you have done something differently in her position, in regards to turning pro and playing in LPGA events for money this year?
07/19/06 @ 12:38
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
(I'm gonna sound like an old man here..) Part of the problem is the current generation's attitude of "I want it NOW!" and "Show me the MONEY!" Unfortunately, Michelle seems like she's gonna be the poster child for rushing a talented child into the spotlight. After all, this is sports, and America loves a winner. You can already see some grumblings in the mainstream media about the Wie-publicity train.

Will she win? Hell, yes. She's too good NOT to win eventually.

Will she be damaged goods by the time she does? Maybe. And the sad thing is that we shouldn't even have to wonder about that. If she had been brought along a slightly slower path (play in some Hawaiian tournaments and JrPGA events, maybe even college), she could've had a "Hello World" moment after winning at lesser venues and building the hype with achievements rather than statistics ("Oooh, she can hit 300 yards!")

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Richard Williams did it right. Having Venus and Serena beat up on their age group before turning them loose on the tennis tour taught them how to compete and win. He talked too much, sure, but when they got to the majors, they knew how to deal with the pressure of having break point in the third set in the finals. Michelle is trying to learn to win at the highest possible level, and while she might eventualy succeed, it probably isn't the most psychologically sound way of doing it.
07/19/06 @ 12:53
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
That's the biggest concern, in my opinion - is this path putting pressure on her too early, and will she end up cracking? Maybe hating golf at some point?

I don't think the "learning how to win" argument holds up all that well in golf, though - think about the differences in course set up as an example. A tennis court is the same at all levels. A golf course isn't. Wie is already long enough that she doesn't need to hit driver on holes where most LPGA pros will need to. On a junior course, she'd be playing a very different game. It would probably work her short game more, but her tee shots would be irons and fairway woods and her approaches would be wedges instead of long irons. Is that really going to help her learn how to win at the pro level?

But the pressure and the lack of a stocked trophy case might cause longer term damage, I agree - if she has a couple years of winning junior events, it's probably easier to maintain confidence while not winning on the pro tour.

Having said all that, I'll ask you again...forget for a minute the other stuff - the PGA events, playing in pro tournaments for the last three years as an amateur, the trips to the Far East for men's events and big appearance fees. Just on the question of turning pro last October and playing LPGA events for cash this year, do you think that was a mistake? Because that seems to have gone well, in my opinion. Her finishes have been quite strong, being top five in the last four majors (I think). That's good money to be passing up by not turning pro at this point, no? And she clearly seems to have the game to compete at the LPGA level right now.

I think turning pro and playing the LPGA majors has been a good decision at this point. I don't think that alone opens her up to the potentially damaging pressure.
07/19/06 @ 13:27
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Candace, In answer to what medication I would prescribe for you, my choice for you would be a double header of Wild Turkey 101 with a Beck's Dark beer. And keep 'em coming!
07/19/06 @ 13:45
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
In 20-20 retrospect, I think it WAS a mistake to turn pro, but the original mistake was made when she was 13-14. Instead of building her ability to cope with pressure situations, she was put into sideshows and exhibitions ("See the golf prodigy try to make the cut!"). Why not put her in Jr Tournaments against 16-18 yr olds, and let her learn to beat them first before putting her against the Annika's and Juli's of the world? Did she even win a high school event? Did she ever have to drain a five-footer to win a tournament against her peers?

I'm mixing my metaphors here, but she became a show pony and a cash cow early on, rather than a Tiger. The hype became its own reward, winning was secondary. 16 may very well have been the right age to turn pro, but 13 was too young to have her playing with pros.
07/19/06 @ 14:09
Comment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
That makes a lot of sense - keep her playing at a level or two above her usual level for her age. I don't know enough about her path - there are some details in Jen's book, but they focus on the larger events. I am guessing she played in all sorts of smaller events along the way, but I don't know enough about what events are out there for Juniors, etc.

But the damaging pressure that I worry about is the PGA and the big dollar appearance events. Those are going to go away unless she fares better than she has so far, and that is some serious pressure each time she steps up to the tee in those tournaments now. Meanwhile, she is doing plenty well enough to keep herself in the LPGA events, so I doubt that finishing top five is causing her to form too many ulcers.

At some point I think the situation gets away from you, too. BJ or Michelle or the media or her agents may have wanted to push her a bit, pump her up some, generate interest, but it may have snowballed faster than they expected. Now you are just caught up in the whirlwind.

I think the pressure question will be revisited in a few years when Michelle is able to look back and comment on it with hindsight.
07/19/06 @ 14:39
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
16 may very well have been the right age to turn pro, but 13 was too young to have her playing with pros."

You know how it is Todd, the year was 2002 with an LPGA tournament formerly held on Oahu. Michelle was looking for some competition, so she Monday qualifies as a 12 year old for the Takefuji Classic.

The media picked up on this and the Sponsor's started calling. She played in two more LPGA events missing the cut in all three in 2002.

2003 was not a bad year for Michelle on the LPGA tour. She played in seven events missing the cut one time. The highlight for 2003 was when she tied for 9th place at the KNC an LPGA Major.

After the one missed cut in 2003 Michelle would never miss another LPGA cut and the rest is history.

Now you can argue all you want Todd about Michelle's path playing with the Pros, but it is difficult to argue with the result:

Since finishing 23rd with Annika at the US Women's Open in 2005, Michelle has not completed an LPGA event out of the top five in seven consecutive LPGA events including four LPGA MAjors and one European Major tournament.

Before SI reporter Michael Hamburger injected himself into the story at the Samsung, Michelle had completed all rounds and was sitting in fourth place.
07/19/06 @ 15:19
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Candy said:

"I'll drop these shoes, shut my mouth and start making you some eggs, pronto."

I'll take mine over light. And don't you dare break those yolks, woman.
07/19/06 @ 15:22
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
One-putt,

I think it's perfectly valid to argue with Michelle Wie's results. OK, we all agree she has as much talent, if not more, than any other female golfer. But week after week, she isn't the best golfer of any given week, continually beaten (using her talent as a barometer) by lesser golfers. Why?

Because for all her abilities and skills, she doesn't know how to close the deal. She could have learned that skill years ago against her peers, but instead chose a path of exhibitions and publicity. She would still have the great talent, but with that extra club in her bag, might have been even MORE successful.
07/19/06 @ 17:14
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
There have been hundreds of cases of overbearing stage mothers and fathers pushing teenage prodigies in various fields beyond their physical and emotional capacities. Many, if not most of these cases as far as females go were in the sports of figure skating and gymnastics. In my own neighborhood lived a young girl, a schoolmate of one of my daughters, whose mother removed her from high school and hired a private tutor so the girl could practice figure skating for up to six hours per day seven days a week and also travel the country to compete year round. The mother was living vicariously through her daughter. The dream of becoming Olympic champion was never realized, as were the dreams of thousands of other exploited girls. She suffered a severe knee injury, which ended her career. Her mother blamed HER, the girl, for the injury. The parents were eventually divorced over the endless travel and neglect displayed by this consummate stage mother. The daughter is also divorced and also estranged from her mother for several years. This same story holds true for many precocious child stars of movies. It would not surprise me one bit if Bubbles ends up estranged from her parents, especially the ubiquitous and overbearing BJ Wie.
07/19/06 @ 19:06
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Hi Candace!!!!

You got it wrong....
See, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

Think about it, but don't hurt yourself.
07/19/06 @ 20:58
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Unbelievable, John D., I was going to post that line from that song.
07/20/06 @ 01:37
Comment from: JRC [Visitor]
"...I would love to see a 16-year-old female win a PGA Tour event?..." This quote comes from an article by a columnist named Woodson who writes his articles in the sports section of the Rochester Business Journal. He?s also reevaluating his position as a Wie-booster on MW?s readiness to take on the men of the PGA. In reading this sentence, nearing the end of his article, I asked myself...why do you want to see a 16 year old female when against the men? What possible benefit or value to golfing as sport and profession could come of it? So, I thought I would pose the same question to the Wie-booster contributors of this blogdom...Why?
07/20/06 @ 13:04
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Comment from: JRC [Visitor]

"So, I thought I would pose the same question to the Wie-booster contributors of this blogdom...Why?"

Why not?
07/20/06 @ 17:21
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Because you could be effing up the psyche (and life) of a potentially great golfer...
07/20/06 @ 18:37
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
ToddCommish, When some of Michelle's fanatical admirers like putt4par give a retort like he just did, they are serious. They don't know apparently that teenage girls are certainly the most fragile psychologically of all human beings. I have two daughters who went throigh that difficult and mysterious phase and they and my wife agree that Michelle is under too much pressure for a girl her age. Now, I've engaged in a lot of playing "devil's advocate" on these blogs, but I would never do it if I thought a young girl was reading them and being emotionnally hurt by them. Unless Miss Wie is the only teenage girl who ever lived without this hyper-sensitivity, she has to be emotionally scarred by her failed sortees onto the PGA tour. All joking aside, MW has a wealth of talent, which I have acknowledged many times in the past. She should have been a preeminent player on the LPGA tour for a couple of decades. Now, I'm not so sure. No matter what her ethnic heritage, she has to be discouraged when she is out-classed on the big tour. The psychological damage she may be undergoing will be cumulative. I hope I am wrong, but I'm afraid a lot of damage has already been done to her. A guy like BJ would be the last to admit it or even recognize it. That's enough for now. I recently got a compliment from Candace Polski, no mean accomplishment, so I'd better let well enough alone.
07/20/06 @ 19:28
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
I also have a daughter (just turned 11), and while she hasn't exhibited any single skill that someone would pay $10M/yr to sponsor, I don't think I would lay that on her shoulders anyway. Some things are more important than money. My daughter's peace of mind certainly is on that list.

By the way, is MW an only child?
07/20/06 @ 19:59
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
'yawn'. don't tell me this thread is still going? candace, why do you bother to respond to these guys. you are just giving them more opportunity to feel superior to us wie fanatics and talk down to those of us who are not as smart as them.
now they want us to believe that they say these things about michelle because they are concerned for her psycholgical well being. from golf experts to psychologists. wow, i am impressed. yes, michelle has no idea what she's doing or what she wants for her life. and her parents don't have a clue as to how to raise their daughter. yet todd and alex, two total strangers that she has never met, knows what is best for her. lol.
alex says he is afraid she has already suffered psychological damage. really, alex? prove it.
and for the guy that says she should stay in hawaii and play the local tournaments so she can learn how to win - michelle won every major WOMEN'S tournament in hawaii by the time she was thirteen. also, playing full time on the lpga is not an option as she still needs to finish high school, duh.
07/20/06 @ 21:31
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
andy, No comment. In your case, a comment would serve no purpose.
07/20/06 @ 22:03
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
The measure of an athlete of any kind is how well they work thru poor play or outside pressure. How do they perform the next time out?

The one thing I have noticed is after Michelle finishes an event no matter how poorly she played and faces the media she is under control. It seems she has developed the ability to leave whatever happened on the course accept it and move on. She doesn't seem to dwell on it much.

07/20/06 @ 23:04
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, One-Putt, I do concur. I suppose that when abject failure becomes habitual you become numb to the emotional trauma.
07/20/06 @ 23:21
Comment from: Ann [Visitor]
ToddCommish,

Although I understand where you're coming from with learning how to win and dominate one's peers, I don't think it can be applied to everyone. Whenever someone mentions that Wie needs to learn how to win, they seem to always overlook her media-created rival Morgan Pressel. Pressel, who seemed to be taking the standard way of playing golf, was a dominant force in Amateur Golf, but her "learning to win" has yet to come into fruition. Her best finish this year was T5, having missed two cuts. She has yet to contend this year. It seems the only time she did contend was the 2005 US Women's Open. In the 5 tournaments that Michelle played in this year, she has made about $200,000 more than Pressel, who played in 14 tournaments. Morgan has 4 Top Ten Finishes, while Michelle has 5 Top 5 finishes. You get the idea.

I'm not here to make Michelle look better by jabbing at Morgan. I'm not here to make comparisons between the two as players, but more so as the direction they chose to go. You have to realize that for every Tiger or Phil there is probably 10 other Joe Schmoe who dominated Amatuer, but couldn't quite make it on the Professionaly level. Must we remind ourselves that Michelle and Morgan are only into their first year as professionals? Anyone trying to fully assess every part of Morgan or Michelle's game at this stage as professional probably does not have enough patience. Golf is a marathon, not a sprint. Just wait and see. Those who expect Michelle to immediately win and win everything just aren't getting it. As for those who argue that she needs to live up to the millions she's earning, they don't understand marketing. There are numerous reasons why Nike is willing to shell out millions on Michelle, and it's more than just her winning.

As for questioning her mental toughness and BJ pressuring her, I don't think anyone on this board knows Michelle well enough to prove those claims. She has said numerous times that these are her aspirations, and hers alone. And maybe not winning would deflate her belief in herself, but maybe it won't. She is 16, she has set her own goals. And she might not equate victory with winning. Who knows? As for now, why can't we just take her word for it?
07/21/06 @ 03:01
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Ann, "she might not equate victory with winning." What?
07/21/06 @ 08:15
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, One-Putt, I do concur. I suppose that when abject failure becomes habitual you become numb to the emotional trauma."

Hey Judge, Michelle has five consecutive LPGA top five finishes (3 Majors) in her first full season as a pro. I don't believe any woman has done this before (a top 5 in every start), can you name one?

I'll take a couple cases of abject failure brew along with emotional trauma chasers. I could use a little numbness my friend to help out my game.

Keep em comin Judge.




07/21/06 @ 16:01
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Alex [Visitor] http://Alex
Ann, "she might not equate victory with winning." What?"

Kathy Whitworth the greatest female golfer of all time, did not win an event or get a top five finish until her fourth year on the tour. It took her eight years to win a Major.

Annika Sorenstam the greatest female golfer of our time, did not have a victory and only one top 5 finish in her first year on the tour. She had 3 wins the following year with one Major Championship the US Women's Open.

Thank the Golf Gods these two gals didn't quit before they won.

Michelle, who is two years removed from her LPGA rookie year (if she joins the tour) put together a history making run her first season as a professional golfer. No hype, just results.

I believe Alex we could call this a Victory for Junior Golfers everywhere.
07/21/06 @ 16:25
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Ann,

You miss some BIG points. While I agree that Morgan's Jr. success hasn't translated into professional victory, Morgan hasn't tried to play in PGA tournaments (and missed several cuts) before even winning an LPGA tourney. Also, nobody is touting Morgan as the "female Tiger". It just seems that the marketing locomotive is leaving the actual player far behind.

There are several examples of junior or college champions developing into PGA/LPGA champs (Tiger, Phil, Paula, Juli Inkster, Annika, et al), and the list of champions who started the tour while under the age of 18 is... blank.
07/21/06 @ 16:43
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
The late Vince Lombardi reportedly said the immortal words "Winning isn't everything, winning is the ONLY thing." Now, along comes Ann with a slightly different saying, to which Wie admirer One-Putt has added his imprimatur. Ann says, apparently with a straight face, "Maybe Michelle doesn't equate victory with winning. Who knows?" Uh, Ann and One-Putt, victory IS winning! What else could be equated with victory? Playing well? Trying one's best? Having fun? Or is this some sort of "newspeak" that Wie's adoring fans have introduced?
07/21/06 @ 17:58
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
There are only two examples I know of players who started either the PGA or LPGA Tour under the age of 18. Aree Song who started in 2004 and Morgan Pressel who started this year. Both were also chanpions in the junior/amateur ranks.

The LPGA say of Aree Song. "In 2004 had a successful rookie year, posting four top-10 finishes, including a career best second place at the Kraft Nabisco..."

I did find an example of a male golfer who turned pro at 17, although he did not join the tour until he was 19. In spite of World War II interupting his career, and a car accident that limited his play in later years, Ben Hogan did manage to win 63 times including 9 Majors. I think we can call him a champion.
07/21/06 @ 18:38
Comment from: andy [Visitor]
hey, toddcommish. in case you have'nt noticed, this whole deal is that michelle is not going the same route as everybody else. she is marching to her own drumbeat. does that mean that she cannot succeed?
to those that cannot think outside the box, it is pure folly. i assure you, that is not michelle.
time will determine whether she is successfull in her endevours, not anything i say and certainly not anything you bozos say.
as for alex. 'yawn'.
07/21/06 @ 18:46
Comment from: Ann [Visitor]
ToddCommish,

You bring up very valid points. But like I said, for every great golfer there are countless others who have dominated amateur golf but have had no success in the professional ranks. It takes time to see how everyone fairs. Michelle's route is different, and noone has taken the same steps she did. She is still a teenager and only in her first year as a professional. All I'm saying is that it's really to hasty now to come to the conclusion that she took the wrong direction. Five years down the road, IF Michelle fails expectations, then I would happily concede to your view. But as for now, who knows? I personally think she's playing nicely. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see. My point is that it's case by case situation.

NOTE: Paula started while she was 17 I believe, and she did not play collegiate golf.

As for Alex and others like him, I try not to dignify their posts with a response.
07/22/06 @ 01:05
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
ANN

Actually we will never be able to say whether Michelle Wie followed the best path or not, since we will never know what would have happened if she had followed a different path. We know, for example that her chip on the last hole of the Kraft led to a par--but we can never know what would have happened if she had putted instead.

As far as the path that Michelle Wie has taken is concerned--to a large extent it is simply the path that her critics have forced her to take. If her critics had been willling to cut her some slack as long as she was an amateur, she might have taken a slower path that would have included another effort in the APL to qualify for the Masters as an amateur. But as long as she was going to be treated like a pro whether she was one or not, it only made sense to make the move that would give her the money she needed to be as competitive as she could be as soon as possible.

Here's a question. How many people who say Michelle Wie is at a disadvantage because she didn't learn to win in Junior golf are also saying that we need to be more patient with her than we would be with players that did learn to win at a lower level? If they only say the first and not the second one has to wonder about their sincerity.

07/22/06 @ 02:25
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Michelle outgrew Junior Golf when she finished in ninth place at an LPGA Major (KNC) in 2003.

If Junior Golf is critical to a players growth I wonder why more Junior Golfers are not more successful than Michelle when they enter LPGA events.

07/22/06 @ 04:01
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Annie,

Thank you for mentioning my posts.
07/22/06 @ 04:05
Comment from: Ann [Visitor]
Jim Coulthard,

Now that you mention it. I really see your point and now agree with you. She chose which ever path she did, so why are we all still talking about it? It's not really going to rewrite history. I guess the people that see Michelle as "failure," for lack of a better word, are those who expect immediate results.
07/22/06 @ 09:27
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
So Wie outgrew Junior golf in 2003... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the same year she got dusted by Morgan Pressel in the third round of the U.S. Girls Junior and the same year she got dispatched from the U.S. Women's Amateur in the first round. I guess she was once again too good for the world of junior and amateur golf in 2004 by losing in both the Women's Amateur and Publinx that year.

Michelle has played beautiful golf on the LPGA level since she has been 13 years old, not winning golf, but consistently excellent golf. The notion, however that she was too good for major league junior and amateur golf is simply not true.

07/25/06 @ 15:41
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Ford, There you go stating facts again! The wie publicists are not interested in facts. Neither are the Wie Warriors. The stocks in trade of these characters are hyping to the max, taking the money and running, and ignoring such mundane things as Michelle's numerous losses in junior and amateur competition. They believe if no one talks about them, they'll cease to be facts or even be relevant. One can see by these blogs that her adoring fans already have taken the hook.
07/26/06 @ 09:12
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
In honor of the Wie-zeals and the illustrious Bubbles, I'm dedicating this limerick to the sparkly one.

Bubbles' Troubles

There is a golfer named Wie,
Whose failures her acolytes don't see.
But it doesn't faze Bubbles;
She just spins her golf troubles
And gets her doors opened for free.
07/26/06 @ 13:07
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
So Wie outgrew Junior golf in 2003... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the same year she got dusted by Morgan Pressel in the third round of the U.S. Girls Junior and the same year she got dispatched from the U.S. Women's Amateur in the first round. I guess she was once again too good for the world of junior and amateur golf in 2004 by losing in both the Women's Amateur and Publinx that year.

Michelle has played beautiful golf on the LPGA level since she has been 13 years old, not winning golf, but consistently excellent golf. The notion, however that she was too good for major league junior and amateur golf is simply not true."

And where has all that amateur experience gotten Morgan today at eighteen years old? Check out the scores at the Evian. Consistently getting her ass shellacked by a sixteen year old.

Where is Brittany Lincicome today Ford, two weeks removed from a match play win? Residing at the bottom of the Evian leaderboard in her normal position in the order of merit.

Both these gals like to talk smack, but don't have the game to back it up.

Don't confuse a few rounds of match play golf with playing an LPGA stroke play event against the best players in the world.

Look at the leaderboard Ford and tell me it doesn't look familiar. The cream really does rise to the top when four rounds are over.


07/27/06 @ 04:04
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
One-Putt, Did you say after four rounds or two? Didn't I read somewhere on these blogs that Bubbles' strong suit was match play? And remember, O-P, you said on another thread that Lorena, NOT Bubbles would win at Evian.
07/27/06 @ 14:04
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
One-Putt for the last time I am not a supporter of either of the girls you mentioned. You seem to like caps so here goes, I AM NOT SAYING THAT MORGAN PRESSEL OR BRITTNAY LINCICOME ARE BETTER GOLFERS THEN MICHELLE WIE. I was simply responding to your assertation that Michelle was too good or would be wasting her time with top level junior/amteur golf. Her results as I mentioned prove that this was not the case. I know it makes you sick to think that these girls actually had the nerve to beat Michelle at various points in their careers, but get over it. Michelle has been finishing consistently higher than both of them as of late and that trend will probably continue.

One-Putt you are right about one thing the cream does rise to the top at the end of any golf tournament. Tell me again how many wins Michelle has...
07/27/06 @ 16:20
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, Ford, the cream does always rise to the top, right above Michelle Wie.
07/27/06 @ 22:55
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
I guess life for Alex, Ford and Judge will be over if Michelle lucks out and wins one.

Which one of you will buy the KoolAid?
07/28/06 @ 02:52
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
One-Putt, Far from it. You Wie-wee's will be more entertaining than ever when Bubbles finally gets off the schneid. And O-P, if Bubbles does win at Evian, luck won't play any part in it. Just like the heat didn't have anything to do with her flop at the John Deere. Bubbles will never be mistaken for Katherine Hepburn, but she might look into a career as an actress if this golf business or her other careers don't pan put.
07/28/06 @ 14:06
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Alex-

She might make a better 'tour guide' on a whale watch excursion boat.
08/01/06 @ 05:07

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