Normally I enjoy reading other bloggers on TravelGolf?s bloggerboard. I may agree with the writers? sentiments, I may disagree, but either way I come away feeling like I learned a little something about golf and the writer?s personality. For example, what I?ve learned about Chris Baldwin will last a lifetime.
This week I learned a little something about Stacy and Barry Solomon of Golf for Beginners fame, and it wasn?t pretty.
In their latest post, they rake Michelle Wie over the coals for her missed cut at the Omega Masters. The worst was this line:
?The only men’s event Wie qualified for was the SK Telecom Open…a third-world event.?
Uh, what? The SK Telecom Open, an Asian Tour event played in Seoul, Korea, is third-world now? Seoul, Korea, is about as third-world as New York City. And they?ve been wondering why they can?t get press credentials?
The Solomons follow that line up with, ?Come on, let’s be serious, she was at least a foot taller than the other guys in that tournament - five foot tall men with eight foot sticks.?
Wow. Declaring that Asian men are five feet tall. How about adding a line in there about how they have slanty eyes and talk funny?
?How can she feel that it isn’t important for her to play against seasoned professionals of either gender?? ask the Solomons.
Michelle is maxing out her opportunities on the LPGA Tour–she’s allowed to play eight events, and she?s playing all eight of them. This would hardly indicate that she?s blowing off the LPGA.
Now if you really want to criticize Wie?s performance at the Omega Masters, there?s plenty to consider, and you don?t even have to resort to racial stereotypes.
It was an ugly outing, and clearly Wie has a long way to go. The tough mountainous course at Crans-sur-Sierre, Switzerland, requires a tremendous amount of course knowledge and experience, something Michelle?s school schedule prohibits at this point. She played it because she?s heavily sponsored by Omega.
The Wies need to reconsider their choice of sponsors, yes. And their choice of tournaments during Michelle?s school year, yes. Placing Wie under so much pressure at such an early age, sure. All valid criticisms.
Of course, as long as her presence in the field bumps up ticket sales (they were up 37% over last year’s Omega Masters), she’ll still get the invites and she’ll most likely keep accepting them. The only way to get better at this game is to play it, after all.
Not only was this not your best blog, Solomons, but it was just plain embarrassing. I know you can do better.
Wie enjoyed the scenery but not much else at the Omega Masters.
(Photo by Patrick Micheletti)
| « Who's the Sexiest Man Alive? (Hint: Don't believe People magazine) | Top Ten Things You Won't Hear at a Fantasy Football Draft » |
Comment feed for this post
Jason Scott Deegan:
The Accidental Golfer:
Katharine Dyson:
Kiel Christianson:
Seoul is a pretty neat city, and I hear Asia's airports are to die for.
But they are shorter than normal. As a fellow shortie myself, I'm not sure whether to be offended or to move there so I can feel taller.
Give us Wie supporters a chance to comment on your site, instead of just having sites like Tim's that talk about Wie.
Wie will not petition the LPGA for membership before she turns 18--she is not going to ask for special treatment, particularly after the request to play an extra event or two this year was turned down. She may join the LPGA when she turns 18, even with the restrictions that involves--but she will treat the LPGA like the minor league that it is, and try to develop her game so that she could be competitive on the PGA or another men's tour.
No Excuses? If you are expected to answer questions from the media, then answering those questions is part of your job--it is not making excuses.
No crying? I know somebody said men swear so they won't cry and women cry so they won't swear. In golf, however, I believe crying is considered more acceptable than swearing. In any case, it seems a little harsh to condemn someone for having puffy eyes which might suggest the person did some crying in private.
BTW-where was everyone on Tim blog when Greek women were roundly insulted?
Maria Sharapova has won her second major. I am looking forward to her playing against Federer someday...
***********************
LOL,
The problem is that PGA is 'arrogant' to call them "PGA". While it is obvious women can't compete in equil footing in tennis, they still call them "Men's tennis and Women's tennis".
If PGA starts calling themselves "MPGA", then all this hoopla with Wie will be over with.
PGA players who have problem with Wie should lobby for the name change instead of just ranting and grunting.
If Timmy or Baldie wrote the radial remarks, no one would have blinked. (that is why no one blinked when Timmy ridiculed Greek women)
Only 2 things you need to know...
GOLF is a GAME.
Wie-Wee is a JOKE.
The PGA was given its name because it predated the women's tour. Secondly, changing the name would do nothing to end the "hoopla" with Bubbles. This is because such a change would be symbolic as opposed to substantive; what they would have to do is institute a rule prohibiting the participation of anyone not born male.
The point is that organizations are governed by rules, not names. As long as the Bubbles of the world are allowed to participate, they will.
Your point is well taken. I myself have often pointed out that, contrary to the knee-jerk assumptions of the Wiemen, it isn't a given that Bubbles will improve markedly from here on in. The fact of the matter is that there's a profound difference between the average 16-year-old and someone who at fourteen possessed the physical stature of people four to five years her senior. Moreover, women's sports are replete with examples of girls who saw their best days in their mid-teens.
Lastly, I would point out that Bubbles' best performance in a PGA event occurred when she was fourteen; her recent attempts pale in comparison. Interesting, isn't it?
Thanks for reading and commenting on our blog. We appreciate you taking the time.
With regards to our comment about the Asian tour, it is certainly a third level tier in the world of golf.
With further regard to our comment of Michelle Wie standing a foot taller than the average Asian man, this too, is factual.
http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/doh/survey99/hse99-t6-2.htm
However your comment, "How about adding a line in there about how they have slanty eyes and talk funny?" is truly a racial comment. Asians don't talk funny. That is just a product of where they come from...just like Texans, for example, or Brits.
As far as having "slanty eyes", your other racial statement, their eyes do not slant. Their eyelids are just larger than ours in this part of the world.
With regard to "doing better", we can all do better. How about you putting out a book called, "Michelle Wie: The Making of a Champion" when she has certainly not achieved that goal in the world of golf.
It seems to me that your book title could have been, "Michelle Wie: The Destruction of a Potential Champion by Bad Parenting".
I can certainly think of a subsequent book title for you. For
example, "Where in the Golf World is Michelle Wie?"
Michelle Wie would have certainly emerged as the Tiger Woods of women's golf had she emerged when she was ready, in her own time.
The pressures of money and publicity by people like you who are trying to prosper financially have added to the burning-out of Michelle Wie before she's achieved championship success.
Good job Jennifer. We hope to see better of you in the future.
The facts are, of course, that Michelle has accomplished things never imagined possible at so young an age. Further, she is held in high esteem by millions. The Harris poll recently showed that she is the most popular female golfer in the game. Her sponsors are thrilled with their association with her, and tournament sponsors are lining up around the block to invite her to their events. We have the privilege to watch this talented golfer develop her game over the next five years.
Wie-Grinches can't be pleased. Who cares what they think. But bigotry needs to be addressed. Jennifer, thanks for taking a stand. The Solomon's comments are appalling. I would guess that they regret making those comments. I would hope that they would make a simple apology and retraction and move on.
Barry you didn't say "third level tour", you said "third world tour". And since when does height determine golf prowess? Glad no one told Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, etc. and etc., to give up the game on that basis.
As to the title of my book, Michelle won the 2003 Women's Amateur Publinks, a tournament for adults, at age 13. That right there makes her a champion. I could also list the many tournaments she won in Hawaii as an amateur, which also define her as a champion. Whether she becomes a champion on the LPGA or the PGA remains to be seen. But the "champion" tag is something you really can't take away from her--she won it fair and square three years ago.
As for your proposed title, "The Destruction of a Potential Champion by Bad Parenting," it seems at best premature. Michelle seems to think her parents are doing a pretty good job. How about you take her word for it, at least until she falls off the Top Ten list of the Rolex Women's World Golf rankings?
You and Stacy should just apologize and go on. It was a very offensive blog and you both should know better.
Barry, while I don't dispute the findings in this link you provided, this survey measures Chinese, not Koreans. I know they're close regionally and most Americans can hardly tell the difference between many Asian nations in a line-up (a pysch study I was a part of in school proved that), but generalizing like that is why I think Jennifer and Tim aren't exactly thrilled with your blog. And you did say "3rd World" not "3rd level". A big difference.
Probably the thing I like best about blogs is the informality, immediacy and uncensored reader feedback. We can also get away with saying things sometimes that wouldn't fly in traditional media. But then again, traditional media is fading and internet media is growing, so who's inferior?
I know what you guys were trying to say about Wie in Korea. I agree that the competition over there isn't exactly up to snuff and qualifying for that tour isn't like qualifying on the more developed tours. But the way you presented it wasn't exactly constructive or accurate.
As far as trying to cash in on Wie, Jennifer...If I could hold a single train of thought for more than 1200 words I'd probably have tried to write a book about her too (I also found the title premature, but I haven't read your book either, so I won't judge, as the saying goes...).
This is the site I was trying to link to.
Don't be put off by little Timmie. He's just in a dither because his sister beat him in arm-wrestling again in front of his boyfriend.
Next time just stereotype white people or Christians. Timmie won't have any problem with that.
Now, a little about competition... As a dancesport competitor, my coaches initially entered me in competitions against older, or shorter, or less well built competitors, so that I might have the chance to win. I have since competed and won against those more on my level. The Solomons were being direct. Wie entered into a competition where she thought she was physically less challenged, and where she would most likely attract an audience -- from Asian supporters. If I knew of a competition where there were mostly people of my heritage watching, I too, would compete.
I resent Ms. Mario's additional comments concerning Asians re: "how they have slanty eyes and talk funny?" The Solomons would not write such things because they are not like that. I have almond shaped eyes. I am short. My partners are Asian, Black (not all African descent), White ("Cauc"-Asian), and Latin... I know them better than anyone.
Perhaps, Ms. Mario needs to re-consider her comments, mind her p's and q's (pints and quarts), as I think that is what she was doing too much of when she wrote her diatribe. I expect an apology from her concerning her nasty comments about shape of eyes and speech in the Asian community.
Anyway, perhaps Ms. Mario should consider changing the sport she writes about if teenagers are her target... There is a new tennis champion... 8-)
Let me see if I have all this right.
1. You're Asian.
2. You're not at all offended by the Solomon's comments.
3. You are offended by JM's objection to apparent ethnic slurs (by her use of hyperbole to make her point).
4. You demand an apology from JM.
5. You don't demand an apology from the Solomon's.
Hmmmm... What's wrong with this picture?
In the tounament stats, Gipper finished first in birdies (24), fifth in putts in greens in regulation, and first in driving distance (339.6). Unfortunately he also finished first in bogies and in the dreaded "others" category.
Aoh... Where is Thomas Levet ??
You don't Know Thomas Levet ?
Sorry, forget it..
I bet Wie-Wee does not make the cut.
Particularly Jennifer's quote "she has a long way to go". Why would anyone in their right mind write a book about a child who has "a long way to go"?
Worse yet, why would anyone waste money and buy it?
Another blog by LPGA1Fan: Blevins will give LOPGA memebeship to her...There goes the word "give" again. How about earn by winning? Tiger was given exemptions and he won and earned his spot on the PGA Tour. Wie has made some money, not won. She should learn from the Great One of Golf: "Second place sucks"...
There go the excuses again, now the course is to tough...
Enough about Wie... Did you know in Ancient Greek the word Wie translates into "over rated"?
Obviously, had Wie made a cut on the Japanese Tour, similar things would have been said about that.
The Asian Tour has many very good players.
Take the Singapore Open, held at the same time as the Omega as an example.
Sure Ernie Els, and Adam Scott took the top 2 spots, but how about the rest of the top internationals.
Players like Lee Westwood, Angel Cabrera, Tim Clark were well back in the field, and the off form Paul McGinley missed the cut by 5 shots.
I could name lots of other good European players in the field who missed the cut or finished lowly, but I wouldn't expect Americans to know European Tour players that well.
The point is that the Asian Tour is not full of no-hopers like the Solomons and others suggested.
If someone is off form, it makes it very difficult to shoot a decent score there.
It was fairly obvious, in watching Wie at the event and also in practice that her swing was well out of sync. The thing about that course is that placement is the key, and she looked like she did not know where the ball was going to go from one shot to the next.
I put very little significance in her result there because the way she played was very uncharacteristic. I think it was strange that no Leadbetter team member was there with her.
Leadbetter should be able to tell her what is wrong with her swing, and get her ready for the Lumber.
I doubt she would make the cut though, because it is a very long course, a placing about half way between the bottom player and the cut line would probably be a good result, given the course.
In the old days, long shafts were hard to control because clubhead sweet spots were the size of dimes. Now, with club faces the size of six-silver-dollars, hitting a long-shaft driver is a piece of cake.
My opinion on Michelle and her possible pga attempts is that she could get a pga tour card.
Not at 16 or 17 though. She will probably go for it at 20, but mid 20's would be the most likely success.
But the Lumber Classic course is not a typical pga tour course. It is my opinion that she would be giving up quite a length advantage to many of her competitors, and that would be an issue at the best of times, but the word is that it has been raining in that area, and very heavy rain at that.
Not sure how good your golf knowlege is, but basically that makes that 7,500+ yard course even longer.
The gives the likes of Jason Gore and other long hitters a huge advantage.
Michelle may well get to a point where she can compete well on a long course, but add in wet conditions and no run on fairways and that gives the longer hitters a massive advantage.
Michelle might get her golf game to a point of being able to win the John Deere down the line, but with her current distance, the Lumber is another ball game.
I think it's time to layoff the crack pipe for sure..
I think this just a way for you to feel 'potent'; if you know what I mean.
I agree that if Wie stays in the middle of the non-cut pack she'll have made a good showing. If it stays wet, the middle of that pack could be shooting in the low eighties.
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. If you want to talk about bad journalism, the children's book biography you wrote about Michelle Wie kind of takes the cake. I understand it's intended for young children, but that doesn't mean you can't be objective. It's embarrassing in its fawning over Wie and I hope most parents, libraries and schools see through this.
This is precious. These characters are starting to remind me of the pathological liar on Saturday Night Live. "A rebuilding year . . . yeah, that's the ticket!" I think it may be time to start discussing the Alan Cup again.
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
2006-09-10 @ 18:59
"Well, I did see some little Chinaman who I thought was pole vaulting. It turned out he just had a 46 inch driver."
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Permalink 2006-09-10 @ 21:27
?As for myself, I don't see anything wrong with Chinamen. They make good gardeners and handymen. Everyone should have at least one.?
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
2006-09-11 @ 08:27
I am well aware of all the inventions that Chinamen have given to the modern world. For instance, they developed fireworks and the Chinese water torture. Some of their social achievements have been the forced abortions of unborn babies after one in a family, and the systematic killing of all pet dogs in China. Their methods of dealing with dissent was proven to be quite effective at Tianamen Square. And , of course, they did introduce the widespread use of dangerous narcotics to the Western world. In addition to those accomplishments, there is a Chinaman running a carryout down at the corner who makes a helluva good Moo Goo Gai Pan.
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
2006-09-11 @ 12:02
Alex,
Yes, as Marco Polo discovered, Chinamen certainly have their virtues. And you're absolutely right about their effective methods for handling dissent; they sure know how to secure domestic tranquility.
Anyway, no one is going to make me feel insecure about my charity for the yellow race. Heck, their women have always found me alluring and I have dated more than one in the past. And I just loved Hop Sing on "Bonanza."
************
Does worldgolf.com or Travelgolf.com have a policy on bigotry? Why are such remarks [above] permitted on these blogs? You (Worldgolf/Travelgolf) leave the impression that you condone such comments by taking no action. DO you condone them? Do your sponsors and advertisers condone them? Please advise.
I find your PCness and attempt to squelch free speech to be deeply offensive. I think you should be banned from the board.
"As probably the only one on these blogs to have played Asian Tour events, I resent the derogatory manner in which their events were portrayed."
The SK Telecom Open may be an Asian Tour event, but it's really nothing more than a glorified Korean PGA tournament. A quick check of the leaderboard shows that 100 of the 150 players were Korean. Another check of the Order of Merit for the Asian Tour reveals only 10 Korean players in the top 182. Where did the other 90 come from?
No Els, no Scott, no Westwood, no Cabrera, no Clark, and probably none of those "good European tour players" that you know were there that weekend.
It was a truly weak field by Asian Tour standards and an overhyped "accomplishment" for Wie by the media.
In my mind, Se Ri Pak still has the best showing in a men's event with her 10th place finish in the SBS, which probably had a comparable field.
****************************
If you want to talk about 'overrated' athlete, talk about A-rod.
He gets paid 25 million a year for 10 years. How is it that we don't see people with their face turning red and veins bulging out over A-rod's salary ? (people casually say how overrated A-rod is whenever an occasion occurs, but no one is so religious as they are against Wie)
Is he worth 250 million for 10 years service ? Leave Wie alone, at least she is cute.
Norman... all that was said about the asian tour is that many see it as a 3rd tier tour when compared against the PGA, Nationwide, and European Tour.... Or let me ask it like this.... given the following tours, please rank them in order of strength. 1- PGA, 2-Nationwide, 3-European, 4-Asian (all combined).... and your answer is........
*********************************
Order of Improtance:
1st: pga
2nd: European
3rd: Asian & Nationwide combined.
missed the cut."
Alex said:
One year ago, Norman and other Wie Warriors were confident that Michelle would increase her distance off the tee so that she would be close to the big hitters on the PGA tour and would in fact be regularly out-driving guys like Furyk and Toms.
***************************
Alex, I am still confident that she will increase her distance, but did you think that she would have done it by 16 years of age? She should keep gaining for quite a while yet.
By the way, she is probably quite close to those guys already, but they would also struggle at the Lumber.
Of course they have superior overall golf games, which should help them to still do well.
****************************
Alex said:
Now it seems that they've changed their tune. Now her length off the tee, or rather her lack of length off the tee, is a distinct disadvantage on a course like Mystic Rock.
****************************
Yes it is, as it is for Furyk and Toms. However their accuracy helps and also lag putting is key there, and those guys are great at that.
It will be interesting to see if after this year of rebuilding, Bubbles can make a comeback next year and return to her previous form.
I haven't read through all the comments so I don't know how accurate your quoting of Jim is.
For the example let's take it as if it were accurate.
So is it a rebuilding year then?
Absolutely not. There is something I noticed through when I checked her stats.
At the start of 2006, she was the best by far on the lpga for GIR, but her driving distance was around 5th or so.
In her last 3 lpga tournaments, she has been in 1st in driving distance and actually pulling away from the field.
However her GIR went down in those tournaments.
If she is adding length to her driving as the stats suggest, then it isn't surprising that she has lost a bit of accuracy while doing so.
If she has got stronger she would also be hitting other clubs further so it could take a while to adjust. However just a while, not a rebuilding year or anything like that.
Since her goal is to play the pga tour, obviously it is an advantage for her to be adding that strength and distance.
Although, please note the Omega is not classed like this. She had very big and obvious problems with her swing there, that were just poor play.
Some interesting questions there.
On the strength level, it does take time to adjust, and that is particularly for someone who hadn't worked out much.
If they get stronger quickly, then the improvements can be alot, and it will take more time.
As they keep working out, the improvements aren't usually so stark and so it is easier to adjust to those.
Alot of players work out more in the off season trying to gain strength for a few weeks and then practice with that for another two or three weeks before coming back on tour.
It's like adjusting to greens. If you have experience of adjusting from fast to slow greens, you can get to a point where you don't mind what types of greens you play on, because you know when you play them for a while, you can adjust well.
Same with strength training and being able to adjust to better strength.
As regards feel, you make a good point there too, but I'm not sure how good she was in that department anyway.
One feel aspect is lag putting and she has improved alot there. She actually looked impressive at this at the Omega Masters.
However, what you are probably talking more about is in feel around the greens with little chips and such.
I'm not sure if Michelle has got any better or worse at this, but she does has some work to do in that area.
Her short game was pretty bad at the Omega, whether that is due to new strength or not is the question. It's a possibility for sure, but not a probability.
There are guys like Henrik Stenson, who is a huge guy, and as strong as a bear, yet he has wonderful feel around the greens.
So if she found it hard to manage due to extra strength, she shouldn't have any trouble getting better with practice.
In my assessment though, she still has plenty of work to do on her short game.
Michelle should work on:
- her woods
- short game, chip shorts, bunker shots.
- her long irons.
- driving accuracy
in that order.
In the meantime, read this article from a British Sports page.
http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=golf/06/09/12/GOLF_Column.html
A more relevant question is the playing level of the players in the tournament. For that I would suggest looking at the world rankings.
A more relevant question is the playing level of the players in the tournament. For that I would suggest looking at the world rankings.
*****************************
Jim,
I know some of the players on the Asian Tour, so I give some of that info.
KJ Choi was the obvious one and is in number 48 or so.
There is a good few players in the 200-300 region, that's where alot of the field is.
An interesting name that sticks out is Jarrod Lyle from Australia. He is ranked 180, but he missed the cut by 3 shots.
Michelle made the cut by 5 shots.
Who is Jarrod Lyle?
Pretty good player actually. He was 12th at the Nissan Irish Open. He also qualified for the Open Championship.
If he can miss a cut by 3 strokes, the the field is not easy pickings and shows Michelle did well.
However, just as you cannot take any two- or four-day run and determine the quality of a golfer, you also shouldn't use her outburst at Omega to determine that she is feeling too much pressure. It's an indication, but not a certainty.
So I agree, the Wie's may need to reconsider the path she is on, or the way she is walking it. But saying they may want to reconsider is a far cry from the Dark Trio's usual outbursts. I particularly love Alex being concerned about child abuse - is that a legal opinion? Please.
There are decisions made, paths chosen, and possibly great achievements or monumental failures in the whole Michelle Wie enigma. But the only offensive elements are the third parties with partial knowledge that think they clearly know better then the people involved and the people whose lives we are discussing.
Anyone who says Michelle has to compete against the men is as wrong as the Trio with their claims of superior knowledge on how to develop into a great golf pro. Why any of us (with possible exception given to Norman) think we know how best to develop a young talented player into a pro is beyond me. So the over-the-top certainty of how this is destroying Michelle, or is child abuse, or is clearly the wrong way for her to progress - THAT is ridiculous.
You said it right, Danny. Right now, consistent, repeated application of her game to men's tournament set up courses is showing she is not ready to compete effectively at that level. To say she clearly will be good enough, or clearly will not be good enough, are wild guesses in either direction. And you also said it right at the end of your post - "just my opinion" - and it's a very reasonable opinion at that.
Alex and UnderSmails don't seem to get that. Their opinion is truth, and all others are at best wrong, at worst psychotic. And THEY trumpet about zealots!
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Judge Smails, These Wie Warriors are practically tripping over themselves making excuses for Bubbles. Jimbo and Normie are particularly adept at concocting excuses as needed. This has become really entertaining.
Permalink 09/12/06 @ 13:44
So it's just now become entertaining for you? What was it before? And when did "child abuse" become entertaining?
And then:
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
danny noonan, My feelings exactly. Not those of the Wie Warriors. They actually said that they don't expect Michelle to even come close to making the cut at the 84 Lumber. They feel that if she misses the cut but scores well enough to be in about the middle of the lowest 70, (110-120) her play will be a huge success. Seems like some very low expectations.
Permalink 09/12/06 @ 16:14
Wait, so now the expectations on Michelle are too low? Rich. Very rich. Unless the opinion expressed is accurate (which you define as matching your opinion), it is flawed. A simple premise you have. And from that basic conclusion, anything you say is reasonable because it's only trying to advance your end purpose - to spread the truth. You are an evangalist, Alex! Keep trying to heal us all with your wit, wisdom, and "entertainment", using the finest Slick Willy methodology - the ends justify ALL means.
By the way, are you retired, in a failing practice, or do you bill some unsuspecting client for all the time you spend on here? Anytime I happen to check a blog, you have commented every hour or so for days on end. You should look into alternative "entertainment". The world is a big place, lots of nice stuff out there. Less negative stuff.
But we have been down that road already.
omment from: Candace Polski [Visitor]
Oh, a GREAT run of posts from you Alex. These two are particularly "fun":
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Judge Smails, These Wie Warriors are practically tripping over themselves making excuses for Bubbles. Jimbo and Normie are particularly adept at concocting excuses as needed. This has become really entertaining.
Permalink 09/12/06 @ 13:44
So it's just now become entertaining for you? What was it before? And when did "child abuse" become entertaining?
*****
Candace, please offer some assurances that you are not as dumb as your post(s) indicate. Clearly, for those of us who can claim English as a first language, the context of the Alex comment you posted was all the excuses that the Wie sycophants make about Michelle's recent performances and continuing dearth of wins. Looks like Alex never actually said he thought child abuse was "entertaining."
Both the subtleties and the 2-by-4s apparently elude you, Candace.
And surely even you, Candace, has to be aware that you Wie Warriors are entertaining. Consider that, on a regular basis, you Wie acolytes display pretzel logic, excuses, paranoia, defensiveness, and anger. Collectively, you can be amusing. From time to time, you are almost as entertaining as my cats.
-George
As for multi-tasking, billing time while browsing the web is what it is, Counselor. You bill for your time, I pay for your time...well, if I am a client. Unless my legal issues are web based, that's dubious. But I am not a lawyer, maybe that falls within the code of ethics.
This B.J. Wie is the real Svengali in this whole Michelle Wie situation.
I do not blame his daughter for what now clearly may be a 50-50 outcome for Michelle: success story or cautionary tale.
Follow this link, Wie Warriors and Wie Skeptics. Be informed. (Which by definition excludes Jennifer Mario, since one would have to be educable in order to become informed.) For most of you WW's, I still have hope.
http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2753
(1) Michelle Wie is at least 100-1 to ever qualify for the PGA tour.
(2) She is hurting the LPGA by highlighting the tremendous difference in ability between men and women. Before Annika and Michelle tried the PGA tour most people didn't know how vast the difference is.
(3) She will soon lose all confidence in her ability, and who wouldn't ?
The other issue I'd be concerned with is her own "psyche" over these consistent failures at men's events. Truth be told, she doesn't really belong on any men's tour, simply because she's not good enough. The best woman golfer of all time (IMHO), Annika Sorenstam, realized it after one attempt.
If I'm one of the Wie's, I'd give her more opportunities to be successfull. However, if I'm a stakeholder in Wie's career (Nike, Omega, et. al.), then I have different motives.
Dale
To:
Robert Lewis, Pres and CEO Travel Golf Media
Does worldgolf.com or Travelgolf.com have a policy on bigotry? Why are such remarks (see Alex, Smails) permitted on these blogs? You (Worldgolf/Travelgolf) leave the impression that you condone such comments by taking no action. DO you condone them? Do your sponsors and advertisers condone them? Please advise.
I posted a similar comment early today which was removed. Is that your response? eliminate dissent? I have been involved in media for decades. If you think blowing off dissent will end this issue, you are mistaken.
Most modern racism is thinly disguised as ?harmless joking? and ?good natured fun? ? what horse crap. I?ll repeat something I wrote earlier about the subject ? again, please advise. Thank you.
?Billy Packer said he was "only joking" just before he was fired. Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder said he was paying blacks "a compliment" just before he got canned. Racists seldom believe that they are racists. Larry Krueger, David Halberstm, Rob Blair, Rush Limbaugh, etc. and etc. all couldn't understand what the fuss was all about. Fuzzy Zoeller thought his "fried chicken" comment was a "a harmless joke", a "non event" until K-Mart and Dunlop withdrew his largest endorsements.?
The following posts are on ?Golf for Beginners? Friday September 8, 2006
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
2006-09-10 @ 18:59
"Well, I did see some little Chinaman who I thought was pole vaulting. It turned out he just had a 46 inch driver."
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Permalink 2006-09-10 @ 21:27
?As for myself, I don't see anything wrong with Chinamen. They make good gardeners and handymen. Everyone should have at least one.?
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
2006-09-11 @ 08:27
I am well aware of all the inventions that Chinamen have given to the modern world. For instance, they developed fireworks and the Chinese water torture. Some of their social achievements have been the forced abortions of unborn babies after one in a family, and the systematic killing of all pet dogs in China. Their methods of dealing with dissent was proven to be quite effective at Tianamen Square. And , of course, they did introduce the widespread use of dangerous narcotics to the Western world. In addition to those accomplishments, there is a Chinaman running a carryout down at the corner who makes a helluva good Moo Goo Gai Pan.
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
2006-09-11 @ 12:02
Alex,
Yes, as Marco Polo discovered, Chinamen certainly have their virtues. And you're absolutely right about their effective methods for handling dissent; they sure know how to secure domestic tranquility.
Anyway, no one is going to make me feel insecure about my charity for the yellow race. Heck, their women have always found me alluring and I have dated more than one in the past. And I just loved Hop Sing on "Bonanza."
************
You wrote them on Brandon Tucker?s blog titled, ?Should Michelle Wie have won U.S. Amateur before going pro, like Tiger did thrice??
On 08/09/06 at 09:21, regarding BJ Wie, Alex wrote:
Does he still work in his field, or does he manage Bubbles' career exclusively? Did he just crawl out of a bomb crater at Inchon? Or does he just refuse to adopt US customs and mores?
On 08/09/06 at 22:08 Alex wrote:
How about the one at the Chinese laundry. You know, "no tickee, no washee."
On 08/10/06 at 15:39 Alex wrote:
One-Putt, Did the elderly Korean gentleman who delivered that stirring bit of prose speak in Korean or English? Is it verbatim or a loose translation? If it's the former, he speaks the absolute best English of any Asian person in history. If it's the latter, you have a greater ability in Korean to English translation and interpretation than 99.9% of Asian scholars in this country.
Comment from: danny noonan
Norman--Being a golfer yourself you should know that judging players on the strength of two days of golf or even an entire tournament is not an accurate gauge of ability.
***************************
Very true.
*******************
Danny said:
It is for this reason that I do not jump into the fray everytime Michelle plays well or poorly as the case may be lately. Surely you are not suggesting that Michelle is a better or even comparable player to Mr. Lyle because she beat him over the course of two days...
***************************
No I amn't. I'm just highlighting that Lyle is a good player, and he didn't just walse in there, play a shabby game and still beat everyone.
Lyle then went over and played the Nissan Irish Open, a high class European event and got 12th place. Obviously he played better there.
The point I was making is that even though the Asian Tour isn't as good as the European Tour, a player still has to go there and play well if they want to do well.
It's not some playground that a decent player can go in, hack around and get 2nd place.
***************************
Danny said:
What we should look for is patterns and trends in her play and what we are seeing right now is that she is hopelessly overmatched in male events, specifically on the PGA and European tours.
***************************
There is no trend to suggest what you stated.
She did okay at the Sony. Poorly at the JD, but she had to withdraw. She did very poorly at the Omega.
She did really well at the SK Telecom, really well at us open local qualifying and pretty well at Sectional qualifying.
In 2005, she did poorly in bad conditions at the Sony, but did very well at the John Deere. She also did very well at the Publinx.
It isn't the negative situation that you portrayed. It is fairly positive, given that she is going through a learning experience.
Most of us didn't have to go through the intense scrutiny of every performance that she does.
For most players, it's miss 8 cuts in a row, big deal, go regroup try to get better and come again.
There are some people who are so insecure about themselves, that they must discredit everyone around them. Those same people tend to use "funny" nicknames, such as, say "Bubbles" as a "subtle" means of discreditation (if it isn't a word, it should be).
In one of his wonderful rapier satires, C.S. Lewis wrote about the short stalks biting off the heads of the tall stalks. Alex and Judge must be very short stalks.
If I were a more sensitive type, I'd feel kind of sorry for them, but, nah.....
*****
Most of us didn't have to go through the intense scrutiny of every performance that she does.
*****
*Boggles*
Geez, Norm. What a complete Wie lackey you've turned out to be.
Didn't it ever occur to you that the "intense scrutiny" ... was brought on by Michelle's and B.J.'s decisions?
Did somebody FORCE Michelle to turn pro? Did somebody FORCE her to play in men's events? Did somebody FORCE her to run her mouth about how she plans to play in the Ryder Cup, when she can't even make the cut in second-rate PGA events? Did somebody FORCE her to take a $20 million check? Did somebody FORCE her to say she planned to play in the Masters?
Actually, perhaps the answer is yes. Perhaps Svengali Wie, aka Michelle's stage parent, aka her reputed father, is the one who forced her to do and say these things.
If it works out, great for her, and Michelle may become a transcendent sports figure. If it doesn't, Professor Svengali Wie will have to take much of the blame for the Michelle Wie Cautionary Tale.
Still, here's the bottom line: The fault, dear Wies, is not in your stars, but in yourselves.
-George
But as long as you're so worried about bigotry, why don't you check out this link which provides some insights into the "character" displayed by Professor Svengali Wie.
(Link is below)
http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2753
-George
-g
My busybody know-it-all neighbor told me to dig them up and get rid of them - that the trees are a waste of water. Think I'll ignore the know-it-all and listen to the expert.
Didn't it ever occur to you that the "intense scrutiny" ... was brought on by Michelle's and B.J.'s decisions?
***************************
Then George went on to ramble at length about how the hype brings the scrutiny.
George,
When did I say that she didn't bring the scrutiny on herself?
I didn't say it wasn't deserved.
But simply it is there.
The point I was making is that most golfers go along and make mistakes and shoot high numbers and get dq's and have withdrawals and pick up penalty strokes and fire caddies and barely anyone notices.
I didn't say she didn't deserve that attention, but rather that people are silly in reacting so much to every little bit of news, when very little of those stories matter that much.
What matters is that she continues to improve as a golfer. Minor setbacks along the way are no big deal.
The important thing is that she has been getting better.
2--Before Annika and Michelle most people didm't even know there was an LPGA. When Annika played the Colonial some people worried thata poor showing might hurt the image of the LPGA, but others responded by saying the image of the LPGA was so low it couldn't get any lower, or something to that effect.
100-1? Can you tell me where? Where... what casino or betting board? 100-1 is in your fondest petty little dreams. Oddsmakers are living in the real world - not in some contrived Alex-and-Smails-fantasy where Michelle "has no game". PGA Punter should know.
Michelle Wie is the 7th ranked woman in the world. Playing full time on the LPGA she would be a cinch to make the Solheim Cup Team. Last you compared Paula Creamer in the Solheim Cup to Joe Namath in the Super Bowl. Now you seem to be saying that the level of competition in the Ryder Cup is so much higher than the Solheim Cup that a cinch for the Solheim Cup would have no chance of making a Ryder Cup Team and it is an insult if she talks about her goals of making the Ryder Cup Team. Would you also consider it an insult when people talk about the Solheim Cup as being in any way equivalent to the Ryder Cup?
I'd say that I hate to break it to you, but I don't, but most people still pay little attention to the LPGA. How many folks actually know who Karrie Webb is, huh?
BTW, I am sure Jackie Robinson did not listen to the nay-sayers from both sides of the color-line. And I am glad he didn't.
Even a -3 on Friday would almost definitely send Bubbles packing. I think that the interesting question is whether she'll shoot better or worse than she did in the first round. Earlier today my guess was that she'd shoot 77-79, and she shot 77. Now I'm going to guess that she'll post a 78 tomorrow.
Michelle is enjoying the opportunity to travel the world while learning her craft from the best player's in the game of golf. She said one of the most valuable things she has learned about golf is the intense level of commitment demonstrated in the work ethic of nearly all the top pros she has observed. While Michelle is now playing at high level of skill, experts anticipate that she will not begin to be in her top professional form for five more years or so.
Let's look at it from a different perspective....
Only 125 from the top, but only 9 from the bottom.
But Team Wie probably needs to reconsider some aspects of their approach. Forget about the misogynists who want her to fail - and that's 90% of the critics on these boards. There is real criticism to be drawn here. Kiel Christianson has an interesting blog up on child prodigies and public humiliation. I think he over-extends the analogy, as Wie is sixteen going on seventeen. That's young for golf talent, but humans really are capable of handling quite a bit prior to turning 18. For thousands of years we have done so, in fact. However, his point is valid in one sense. There is no point in putting her into situations where rather than learn positives she acquires negatives.
As I have said before, no one on these blogs is an expert or even has any relevant experience in developing a talented sports individual into a world class competitor. Few here can relate to any of the issues surrounding the Wie's at all. And none of us knows Michelle or her parents as well as we think we do - just because there are constant articles, news reports, and books on the subject does not mean we truly understand the people involved. So it's quite presumptuous of any of us to say the Wie's are CLEARLY doing something wrong here.
BUT, having said that, it seems there are better courses for her to play. It seems there are better chances for her to have success while playing against men, and a little success can often encourage learning. And it seems that the PGA events she has been playing in have moved her further from making a cut or competing effectively.
Now, maybe that's not true. Maybe her game is developing in ways we are not seeing on the scoreboard. Tiger, for instance, went through a "slump" by his standards while he retooled his swing. He knew, as he said, that he was getting better, was getting where he needed to be. Many sneered at the comment, saying his results spoke for themselves, and that he had lost an edge to his game, blah, blah. Twice now he has come back from a "slump" in which people questioned him to be even more dominant than before.
So again, none of us really know. Perhaps in five years she will be a regular on the PGA Tour and will credit her early competition in the men's events with showing her what she needed to do to improve her game and play with the male pros.
For right now, though, the Wie camp should at the least reconsider the process they went through this season, and look at ways to produce better results next year. (On the men's side, mind - once again, her performances on the LPGA circuit were phenomenal, despite the "she didn't win" graspings of the truly committed critics. She maxxes out her LPGA appearances, and within those eight showings she was at worst one of the four best golfers of the year. While not playing a full season and at 16 - which IS young for golf talent/development. Argue with that all you want.)
The path to playing against the men deserves critical consideration after this year's results. The results do not show improvement, unlike her LPGA results which show just how good she is and will be on that circuit. Not to say competing against the men should stop, but the path should be considered carefully.
Candace - Results? Who cares! At ages 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22, "learning and experience" is the name of the game. MW is getting best training imaginable. What sort of amateur competition would Michelle have had this year in Hawaii, one or two competitors? How many plane fares and travel bills would her family been able to afford? (And what if the Wie's had accepted a little help - does the name Reggie Bush ring a bell). BJ and Bo made a tough family finance decision and I, along with many others, applaud their careful thinking and execution on all matters. Are there down-sides? Of course. But on the upside, Michelle now has the financial where-with-all to pursue her goals as she and her family see fit. Will the Wie's make a few mistakes along the way? Again, who cares. That's their business, not ours.
Congratulations Michelle on showing great courage and remarkable skill in your year of "basic training". You did yourself (and your millions of supporters) proud. And the Wie grinches? Whatever - they'd still be bitchin' even if you had won the Masters and the U.S. Open this year. They're like mosquitos and cockroaches. You can never get rid of them completely.
The annointed one's problem at the PGA Tour level is an easy one. She has a LOFT problem. Lack Of Friggin Talent. Her level does not match that of the competition. A vast majority of the kids I teach in this age group have an amzing short game, they can get up and down from anywhere with some of the most amazingly thought up shots you will ever see. It seems that in the developement of her vaunted 300+ yd drives, someone forgot to tell her that almost 60% of the game is from 100 yds in.
There were two kinds of racists in the deep south in the 60's and 70's. The overt, and then those who turned a deaf ear and looked away.
Here's a good way to think about that - if you were in some kind of LPGA golf fantasy league that only used results (cash earned) from the four women's majors plus the Evian for 2007, where would Wie get picked? Say there are ten teams of five golfers each. You pick fifth. If Wie were available at your first round pick, you wouldn't take her? And you wouldn't think you got a steal there?
(There's an idea, Jennifer - you write about fantasy football...how about an LPGA fantasy golf league? I'd play.)
Ghet, results are indicators of how she is progressing. They are not THE indicator, they are AN indicator. And the most obvious indicator. As I said, the Wies know better than we do what is going on in Michelle's progress and person. But there is no doubt that the results, and the trend of the results, should at least force the Wies to consider shuffling things around on next year's slate of men's tournaments, and perhaps paring an event or two off the schedule.
I am an apologist for no one, I am pointing out your lack of realization of the rampant racism that took place in the North, especially in the "progressive" large cities with their predominately black inner city and white suburbs. You pointed out the two kinds of racism in the South, while completely ignoring my point, which you obviously don't ghet, which is that racism was alive and well throughout this country in the fifties and sixties, not just in the South. I don't dismiss or minimize anything about racism, it is you that does that by confining it to one part of the country.
"Ghet, results are indicators of how she is progressing."
Indicators against what? There is little or no record to compare against. Wie is writing the book! Grinches want to bury their heads in the sand on the issue of AGE, but AGE IS the issue. I'll repeat... "At ages 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22, 'learning and experience' is the name of the game."
To me, she is in the best place possible - learning from the top pros in competion at age 16. She is also gaining invaluable course knowledge on world-class courses. If she doesn't make a PGA tour cut while she is 16, 17, 18 , or 19, then no biggie! She will be stockpiling the precious experience and course and greens knowledge she will treasure when she is 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, etc. and etc.
The Grinches try to set absurd benchmarks for MW. The Grinch's mantra is that if Wie doesn't win THIS WEEK or THAT, then the sky has surely fallen for Michelle - Pure horse crap.
First comes precious experience, then comes "results".
You are confused. I said that racism existed in the South in the 1950's. That is an undisputed fact.
You point out that the deep South did not have a monopoly on racism. I, of course, agree. Offensive comments on these blogs are a case in point. If you can't acknowledge ethnic slurs on these blogs, then you are "looking the other way".
We will see, but I would guess her confidence on the LPGA would not be affected. Her confidence in the next men's event, however...
"...I don't play golf."
Oliver doesn't play golf? That explains a lot. At least Oliver has an excuse.
George said:
Didn't it ever occur to you that the "intense scrutiny" ... was brought on by Michelle's and B.J.'s decisions?
***************************
Norman:
When did I say that she didn't bring the scrutiny on herself?
I didn't say it wasn't deserved.
*****
Then Norm, stop being a Wie lackey and stop whining about it. You are the one who stated the following:
Norman:
*****
Most of us didn't have to go through the intense scrutiny of every performance that she does.
For most players, it's miss 8 cuts in a row, big deal, go regroup try to get better and come again.
*****
Get it, Norman? You said that most of us don't have to go through what Michelle does.
That's why I called on you to stop whining about it. I urge you to stop being a Wie Lackey and be your own man. Don't fall under the spell of Professor Svengali Wie.
If Michelle is getting too much scrutiny, as you complain, she and Professor Svengali Wie brought it on themselves.
-George
*****
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Michelle Wie, America's most popular golfer, played a solid round of golf today shooting a five over par 76 at 7500-yard Mystic Rock.
*****
But Associated Press, via Yahoo Sports, says THIS happened today:
*****
(Wie) looked badly out of place Friday during her second last-place finish in as many weeks against men.
Wie's rounds of 77 and 81 left her 13 shots away from making the cut and a whopping 23 shots behind co-leaders Ryan Moore and Ben Curtis, who were at 9-under 135.
*****
When did Wie shoot a 76? Or do you simply make stuff up, just like Jennifer Mario does, when she accidentally or deliberately suggested that Michelle Wie was part of a covey of quitters who withdrew because of heat-related ailments at the John Deere Classic?
-George
I'll repeat my position:
To me, she is in the best place possible - learning from the top pros, in competion, at age 16. She is also gaining invaluable course knowledge on world-class courses. If she doesn't make a PGA tour cut while she is 16, 17, 18 , or 19, then no biggie! She will be stockpiling the precious experience and course and greens knowledge she will treasure when she is 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, etc. and etc.
The Grinches try to set absurd benchmarks for MW. The Grinch's mantra is that if Wie doesn't win THIS WEEK or THAT, then the sky has surely fallen for Michelle - Pure horse crap.
Why do you Grinches spend so much of your time fretting about Michelle? Why don't you find a subject you have positive feelings about. It is some sort of obsessive compulsive issue? I'm not joking. What compels you to spend so much time concentrating on someone you don't respect? I'm interested to know.
Her fans love to watch her - that's understandable. But when her detractors spent huge amounts of their precious time, day in and day out, analyzing every little moves she makes? You're hooked! Hey, that's STAR-POWER. She's got it - and you're star-struck. Too bad you can't actually enjoy it. Ha!
Michelle is a talented professional golfer.
Michelle is 16 and soon to be 17.
Michelle has accumulated significant financial assets.
Michelle is invited to PGA events because she is an asset to the sponsors and networks, etc.
Michelle is the most popular female golfer on the planet.
Michelle is likely to attain significantly more financial assets in the years to come.
Michelle is likely be invited to many more PGA events in the years to come.
No golf expert expects Michelle's game to be mature during her 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 year of age.
Note to Michelle:
Green-Eyed Grinches will find something to wail and moan about, no matter how accomplished you become. You can't change or convince them. It is how they live their lives. Remember the kids in pre-school that threw sand, or knocked over the other kid's Lego castle? Same personality type. Negativity is their only hope for gaining other people's attention. They don't know any better. Just try to avoid them (like open sewers or Amway salesmen). Yes, they're pathetic, but it's only sad if you think about it.
Ghet, since you don't fall into the trap of thinking very often, your blissful state is secure.
Earlier you said: "...what we are seeing right now is that she is hopelessly overmatched in male events". Hopelessly overmatched? C'mon Noonan, that's nonsense. She's about five stroke per round (on average) from making cuts on the PGA Tour. Five strokes is not hopeless by any means - particularly at 16 years old. Course knowledge alone could be 2 stokes. Greens knowledge could well be 2 strokes. Her low trajectory on long irons could be two strokes. (A seven or nine wood ala Singh may solve trajectory isues). She could pick up a couple strokes on her 4 to 8 foot putts. 15 to 20 yards on her drives should yield a couple strokes. Getting accustomed to teeing it up with PGA pros may cut a stroke or so. Is she likely to pick up all those strokes? No, of course not. But there's plenty of opportunity to find five or six strokes in the next few years.
The benchmark for maturity on the PGA tour is deep and well-defined... Twenty-two years old is about the age all the greats have "taken flight" with their "A" games. That gives Michelle the ages of 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 to find five or six strokes. I feel certain she will do that and more.
She'll be playing many PGA Tour events in the years to come - it is a great opportunity for her to learn from the best over the next five or six years. She is the biggest draw in the game next to Tiger, so get used to it. All the whining and "mock concern" ain't changin' nothin' - deal with it.
The Grinches who scream "failure" every time MW misses a cut have no grounds to do so. Unless they can show me where Woods, Singh, Mickelson, Nicklaus, Palmer, Hogan, Sarazen, or any other PGA great made the cut at her age... hey, until they can show me that, they're just pissin' into the wind.
A - The Pope is humble enough to apologize.
"Third world"? ... "Five foot tall men with eight foot sticks"? Such comments are neither "observations" nor are they "true". Those statements are derogotory attempts at racial stereotyping... they are racial slurs.
However, in your defense, I can accept that you may sometimes be oblivious to the obvious.
I haven't anything else to add to that.
How are those book sales? "The Making of
a Champion"? " Hah!
"How about adding a line in there about how they have slanty eyes and talk funny?"
Uh, the Solomons NEVER said anything DEROGATORY like that in their blog. That was PURE MARIO!
Perhaps this was her way of putting out what SHE really thinks about Asian people. I was more offended by her quote than by the whole of their article.
And, BTW, how well IS Mario's book doing? The making of a what????
The Amazon.com sales rankings of your book are almost as high as Wie's on course earnings -- well over 650,000. Congrats!
It is nicer to hear nothing from you instead of your constant campaign for the world's greatest golfer.
Let's see now. The world is in a horrendous pickle, wonderful courageous young women and men are actually dying and being horribly
maimed is the middle east, Darfur has
become a haven for despots and murderers,
aids is literally killing millions in
African nations, Iran and Iraq and Syria
are going to have a friendly little get-
together, Oh yea (just so I can be labelled
a racist, some sawed off little fart in Noreth
Korea has his pudgy little finger poised
over the button that could end all of this
rediculous fussing and bitching over a 16,
OOPS, almost 17 year old girl who playes
a really screwed up game, (I do know about
this one as I am a golf nut), with a
really screwed up little stick, trying to pu
put a wierd little ball in a small coffee
can about a quarter of a mile away.. Every
one should get a copy of "Robin Williams
on golf" from his Broadway standup Show
and listen carefully to his description
of the game. When I feel down, depressed,
hard done by and generally on a major
pity party for myself over a missed putt
or the fact that the winds at my course
were 75 miles an hour and they wouldn't
let me out of my cage to play,,,,, "I"
listen to it, but only after a couple of
hours of CNN news coverage; and you know
what???? I FEEL WONDERFUL.. I come back
down to terra firma and realize ONE MORE
TIME... THAT GOLF REALLY DOESN'T MEAN
SQUAT.. What it does for the charities it
supports is fabulous, but the game itself
is just too hard to take seriously to make
it a forum for Childish pseudo political
woman or man bashing. Boy would I love to
be on the wall with a flashlight looking
around it what is in Ya All's closet..I
know mine would keep all you pencil necks
in stitches for years.. GIVE IT UP, GIVE
US A REST, FIND SOMETHING WORTHWHILE TO
TALK ABOUT OR JUST SHUT THE *&%*^ UP..
Chuck Collet, Pitt Meadows, British
Columbia Canada.. P.S.And I'm warnin ya. if
Y'all don't stop real quick I'm gonna
lead an invasion of your country of some
of the most lazily polite people from your
northern borders that will have you all
in a coma in about 2 days...