Ron Monster, I live in the Washington DC area - commonly referred to as the most powerful city on earth - and I can assure you that poverty is much, much closer than 30 miles to Congressional CC, home of Tiger's tournament. I guess the tour pros don't use those courtesy cars to explore the area very much.

You once asked me to point out instances where your 'liberal bias' appears. Guess what, Ron - here's a perfect example.

And "Shanks" - if you really DID live in the DC area, you'd KNOW better than to suggest someone 'go exploring' in much of the city...unless you wanted to get capped by a teeenage drug dealer.

I guess my take on Tait's column was that of tongue in cheek. He did a service in bringing the issue to public view. I think he made some fun of those pros that made public statements about not returning to the venue. Were they in physical jeopardy or just social weenies?

T.

I took the article at face value. Although his comments ".... this event should have been staged as far removed from the reality of India as possible" & "Instead they threw the players into the deep end rather than breaking them in gently" COULD be read as mocking the little darlings, his final comment "The European Tour got it badly wrong for the first event in India" seems to me to be his straight opinion. I have e-mailed him to ask for clarification!!!!

BV,
You FAIL to point anything out...what you just indicated was that I have a liberal bias, but you give no examples. Was it my excessive punctuation? My penchant for vowels? My secret love of consonants? Quotes, man, quotes. You still suck as a witness, as you never give evidence!!!

Tait's article is tongue in cheek? Never ceases to amaze me how people take things differently.

And BV is correct - those undesirable areas are better off left unexplored, especially when it's dark. In fact, 30 miles to our northeast lies Baltimore City where, like DC, there are areas you don't even want to visit in daylight.

What a pathetic bunch of arrogant, overprotected cream puffs.

Really. I've been to New Delhi...I've been all over India. I saw the grinding poverty and shockingly primitive conditions, but I also saw the natural beauty and vibrant culture and experienced the kindness and generosity of the Indian people. That last part was apparently lost on the group of gutless cry babies.

You really get the impression from reading the Golfweek article that these guys just didn't want to be bothered with anything that exposed them to real life or human suffering ...even in a peripheral way. Dubai was fine, because ss long as it looks and smells and tastes like Disneyland these guys can handle it.

There wasn't one mention any of the "high profile golfers" wanting to help bring attention to the plight of these people who are suffering so horribly that it was unbearable observe them, even from the air conditioned comfort of the tour shuttle bus.

The reactions seemed to be uniformly, "this place is awful and disgusting and we deserve better". and, "Why would anyone choose to come to this awful place, I never want to see anything like this again". As though if you don't see it - it doesn't exist. The whole world looks and feels like Augusta National.

No, I didn't see anything tounge in cheek in the Alistair Tait piece, and I don't see the liberal bias in the Ron Mon post.

I would hope that some of the guys who played at the Indian Masters would come out against this. I'm sending the Tait thing to Ernie Els and Rapha Jacquelin (who I kind of know, BTW), to see if I can get any kind of reaction from them.

This whole thing just annoyed me, I think it sends the wrong message about golf.

I'll tell you where the liberal bias -- and perhaps liberal stupidity -- is. It is perhaps where Ron Mon implies that there is some equivalence between "poverty" here and the brand that exists in India. I've been to India and grew up in the Bronx, and I can tell you that our poor people are the equivalent of their middle class, and even that might be an understatement.

As Bill Maher once said, "America is the only country that has fat poor people."

And, it appears, social commentary that is quite thin.

Off the mark, Smails. You're confusing ignorance with stupidity. I'll be the first to profess ignorance, having never been to India. I think, however, that is great that you quote noted liberal Bill Maher, just as I often cite sources from both sides of the fence upon which I sit. Was my goal to provide fat social commentary? Of course not. If I were paid to do such, I would engage in much more profound research. This blog is a volunteer effort on my part, and represents my shots from the hip.

Judge Smails,

One myth perpetuated by liberals is that virtually all those people trapped in what liberals call poverty are trying desperately to get out of their situations.

In reality, so-called "poverty" in the USA affords too many perquisites to those who are recipients of government largesse.

Largely for that reason, literally millions of the world's poor will risk their lives to enter this country and apply for these freebies.

But when is the last time anyone has ever heard of an American welfare recipient leaving our shores to escape the grinding poverty in which he or she is trapped?

Alex USMC 1969-73

Alex,

That's an excellent way to make the point.

As I said, I've been to India, and it's a whole different bowl of curry. In America, if you apply yourself to schooling, stay off drugs, and avoid having a child as a teenager -- in other words, if you live a responsible life -- you will not be mired in poverty. You may not be Bill Gates, but you'll have a comfortable life. This isn't the case in many parts of the world, however.

For instance, studies consistently show that 85% of the "homeless" are alcohol or drug addicted or are mentally ill. Thus, these people may need spiritual guidance and aid, but it's ridiculous to pretend as if our economy is fatally flawed and cannot provide for all its citizens.

I'll also note that the Bible states, "A man who does not work should not eat."

A person does have to be willing to help himself; that's the first step.

Ron Mon,

I'll commend you for admitting that your knowledge may be lacking this area. However, does one really need to have been to India to understand the kind of abject poverty extant in much of the world? Haven't you heard of the children in South America who practically live on garbage dumps? Don't you know that many people on our planet live on less than a dollar a day?

I just think this is relevant because it accords with what I've always said about liberals: They would appreciate America infinitely more if they actually understood what life is like in most other countries.

Lastly, I must mention that since you're a teacher, you really should have a basic understanding of conditions in the rest of the world. C'mon, man!

Do you seriously believe that I do not have such an understanding? Now I am insulted. I have traveled the world, have seen the poverty first hand, have taken steps to remediate at a pithy level. My only confession is that India has not been on my list of countries visited. I believe that dyed-in-the-wool conservatives and liberals read a nonexistent subtext into the writings of fence-sitters. For once and for all, I'm more liberal than a conservative and more conservative than a liberal. If you cannot process that, speak with Motorola.

The problem with being a fence-sitter is that you tend to get barbs stuck in very uncomfortable places.

Ahh, see? Nothing of substance to counter my position. Stick your worthless barbs wherever you please; I'm confident in my place on the fence.

I understood the gist of the post to be lambasting the Euro Tour players for either their apparent ignorance of the level of poverty o/s their pampered existence, or their dislike at being exposed to it, whilst also pointing out that levels of poverty exist on other tours.

However valid some of the points they make, as usual our arch conservatives simply hijack any post on the thinnest of pretexts to lambast "liberals".

Liberal - befitting a gentleman, directed towards the cultivation of the mind for its own sake, generous, noble-minded, broadminded, not bound by authority, enlightened, free from prejudice, etc, etc, so the pejorative use with which you seek to imbue the word "liberal" is beyond me.

As a "floating voter" I avoid the physical barbs of the fence (and am largely indifferent to the verbal ones).

Wendy,

Semantics are strange, indeed. It really doesn't matter what one calls himself as what dees he actually does.

Mainland China under Mao was as totalitarian and murderous a regime that has ever existed, Yet, their official name was the Peoples' Democratic Republic of China. China is not democratic, it is not a republic, and the people have no say in its governance.

Liberal does literally mean generous.
The liberals in the US are indeed generous; not with their own money, but with that of everyone but themselves.

The US has a group of crazies we like to call the "limousine liberal." These folks reside in the most prestigious areas anywhere. They drive or are driven to their various marches in luxury vehicles. The Hollywood left, i.e., liberals are the most ubiquitous and obnoxious of this group.

These phonies are forever trumpeting that the government, the people, should provide decent housing for the poor, the homeless, etc.

Now, almost all of these hypocrits reside in houses with twenty rooms or more. Most have more than one of these castles. Yet, as far as I know, none have ever taken any of these unfortunates home with them for a good meal and a permanent home

Try going to a gathering of these liberals and expressing an opinion different from the credo which they espouse. You'll soon see how generous and tolerant they are.

Incidentally. there is nothing pejorative meant in referring to an avowed liberal as a liberal.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Fortunately, Alex, there are no decommissioned officers nor red-blooded conservatives who passed up the chance to feed the hungry ignored by the people you mentioned. You reference a very small percentage of a diverse population, in the hope of blanketing a point. It's never as simple as that. I will say that your point about no poor leaving US shores to escape grinding poverty was as strong as any I've seen. It's amazing that my blog entries generate such reaction. Thank you.

Ron Mon,

You're quite welcome.

You're also quite correct in your oblique remark that "decommisioned officers and red-blooded conservatives" do a lot for the poor and unfortunate.

The Marine Corps League, of which I am an active member, contributes more time, effort, and money to charitable causes in one year than the limousine liberals will in all their lifetimes combined.

Incidentally, I still retain my reserve commission(inactive), and I will retain it until the day I leave this life.

Semper Fideles Alex USMC 1969-73

I did not make the choice to serve our country's military as you did. For your so choosing, I am eternally grateful. I cannot pray enough for our troops, both active and non-active, in the hours we have each day. Although we may disagree on the meaning behind my words, let us never disagree on the points made above. Thank you again.

It's only fair to say I have now had a reply from Alistair Tait:

"You're absolutely right - players should not be cosseted. The guys who play the European Tour are a pretty hardy bunch. After all, they play all round the world in all different cultures. Flying from Dubai to India to Indonesia is a bit different to playing the Florida swing. That's why it was interesting to see their reaction to the sights of India.

My point wasn't to excuse the players, but to say that perhaps the Euro Tour messed up this time."

The latter point was the only thing I asked him to clarify. I am still none the wiser. Note to self: "Do not hit head on brick wall more than once".

I agree!! If he cannot elucidate on that point, the rest matters not. Messed up how? By showing them reality? This isn't Secondlife.com, for goodness' sake.

Wendy,

I haven't the foggiest as to the identity of Alistair Tait.

He sounds a bit of a fop.

Can you elucidate?

Alex USMC 1969-73

GolfWeek writer...go to www.golfweek.com...you'll see him.

Are you trying to tell me something, RonMon?

No, it seemed that Alex USMC (who made the comment previous to mine) did not connect the referent of Alistair Tait, so I gave my best effort to point him in the correct direction.

OK - Just wondering. I attempted to post a reply to Alex earlier which was repeatedly blocked - I have no idea why as I do not believe it contained anything controversial, let alone the personal insults or expletives I have seen on other posts. Are you able to pre-view and tell me what your site finds unacceptable in my comments? If not, I'll try para by para (don't panic - it's not that long!) and work it out for myself.

Alex, whilst googling for the English equivalent of "limousine liberal" which this site won't let me state - possibly some prejudice against champagne, Wikipedia gave me the following gentle admonishment:

"Note that in the US & Canada the usage of the term liberal differs from most of the world".*

"In many countries o/s the US & Canada liberalism refers to right of center and particularly to support for laissez faire capitalism. In contrast in the US & Canada, liberal has a left-wing connotation and is sometimes used somewhat pejoratively even by the mainstream media" (and always by Alex & Judge Smails). My attempts to insert the bracketed comment were rejected for some pathetic reason as breaching neutrality.

Every time you use the term 'liberal' in future I will have to mentally add the prefix 'limousine' in order to know what you are on about.

* Must you do this? It's taking 'the barrier of a common language' a step too far, surely?

Aha, it doesn't like the names of the 3 main political parties in UK either, although I was only pointing out that our Libs are the centre party.

Wendy,

You make a good point.

The liberals in the US definitely do not favor laissez-faire capitalism.

However, they will make exceptions for billionaires like George Soros and Peter Lewis who make significant contributions to liberal causes. And of course, the multi-millionaires of the Hollywood left are thier darlings.

Alex - as you are intent on deliberately missing "my" point, conversation discontinued!

Wendy,

I started this conversation and it will end when I say so! :-)