Ladies European Tour Stands To Benefit From Xenophobic Bivens

Maybe this is a thinly veiled attempt by Bivens to chase some of the Korean and other Asian players out of the LPGA...

That's cynical, I know, but Bivens has proven so inept, it's hard not to speculate.

The LPGA has a big problem. With the dominance of Asian players many sponsors that use these tournaments to entertain their customers and reward employees are not going to continue if these folks cannot interact with the players. Even if these foreign players could speak English I doubt they would want to "be nice" to a bunch of men who had been drinking. This WILL take the LPGA down in due time.

I hope this rule will apaply to MW also. Her English is terrible.

Pro-Am interaction is likely the driving force behind this. Big-spending sponsors expect a little communication with the pro during their rounds, and rightfully so.

But I think a significant and progressive fine system would make more sense than suspension - certainly from a PR standpoint at least.

Hey, if the US economy continues its downward spiral (read: if McCain is elected), then China will own most every company, and the more Mandarin-speaking LPGA players, the better for the pro-ams.

I agree with Bivens. First, this is America, and we all should do our part to safeguard the integrity of our culture. Second, the LPGA is a business, and it has every right to demand that those who wish to operate within it have good public relations skills. The players are performers, and it's important that they be able to interact with those who provide the money and that they make the tour more marketable, not less so.

These women make lots of money in this country. If they're going to ply their trade here on a regular basis, it's only reasonable that they learn the language. Of course, you leftist scum wouldn't understand that because you have utter contempt for our nation.

You bust my nuts...there's nothing left of you but leftist scum, is there? Heaven forbid that someone present a point that differs and you resort to name-calling. Did Medco not make its monthly delivery?

We who are not you do not have utter contempt for our nation. Truly grasping "our nation" is humanly impossible...From Sea To Shining Sea is an enormity that not you nor I nor Alex nor anyone else can truly know. It is that unflinching faith in our countrymen that allows us to trust that our countrymen and women, NOT our politicians, NOT our CEOs, will support us.

I do not agree with Bivens' decision, but I do think that she did something that could help her tour. Will it? Who knows. If her sponsors were bitching about the aloofness of the non-English speakers, then she clearly addressed the issue.

Don't worry, I'm not going to bring up that bullshot argument of "America is a nation of immigrants." We stopped being a nation of legal immigrants long ago. That's a polemic for another blog.

Ron Mon,

I wasn't aware that you possessed the male organs you referenced in your first sentence. I call some people leftist scum because, well, that's what they are. I consider anyone who encourages multiculturalism -- a profound evil that is tearing apart our nation -- to be a traitor. Each and every one of them deserves Mussolini's fate.

Yes, Smails, I do possess them and they are sizeable. In any case, how much multiculturalism is too much multicutlturalism? If we forget from where we came, if we abandon our heritage, doesn't that doom us to repeat mistakes of the past? Likewise, if there is no new influence, no fresh blood, then ideas stagnate and branches whither. I like other people coming to America, I like the idea of Koreans working with the LPGA tour to reach a middle ground through interpreters...it is the interpreter staff that should receive the LPGA's attention. Bivens could hire a host of entertaining and charming interpreters for pro-am days and the media tent, then bill the non-English speakers. If they don't mind paying the tab, fine. If they do, they'll work on their English skills.

Ron Mon,

I see that you're sincere (that is, as sincere as a liberal can be. What I mean is, if someone doesn't know the truth, there's a reason. And it's usually that he didn't honestly search for it). If you're like most liberals, your beliefs about multiculturalism contradict other beliefs you hold. I could explain that, but it's complex and I don't feel inclined to do so.

So I'll simply say that if you want to see the fruits of multi., simply look at the former Yugoslavia, South Ossetia and Georgia, Spain with its Basques, the Hutus and Tutsis in Africa, or any other place in which disparate groups must try to coexist within the same borders

There are certain immutable laws of human nature, and ignoring them or wishing them away won't change the fact of their existence.

One of these laws is that when you have greatly disparate groups living within the same nation, there are only two possibilities: either they fragment and the country is partitioned, or totalitarianism will develop to hold them together.

Oh, I know that you don't understand and won't accept this, but there's something else I know: you have a sneaking suspicion I'm absolutely correct.

Perhaps it's a sinking feeling, a sick one that comes from a strong sense that your world view is a house of c*rds. In my case, however, I don't simply think I'm right -- I know I'm right because I understand the principles like a mathematical formula. Human nature is my specialty.

As for the perils and lunacy of multi., why do you think India adopted the language of its former conqueror -- and some would say oppressor -- as its co-national language, hmm? Why? Also note that even in the case of Quebec and the rest of Canada, and despite the fact that they have very similar cultures, there has intermittently been talk of secession. Anyway, in time you will come to understand, the hard way. You will think about me then.

By the way, I wouldn't have had to post my response in sections if your idiotic system didn't keep on telling me that the comment was invalid. It won't let me post the word "cards" it seems.

Ron Mon and Judge Smails,

This thread seems to have gone pretty far afield from Ms. Bivens' edict that foreign language speaking LPGA members learn English or face suspension. So, maybe my following remarks might be slightly off topic.

Two personal friends of mine, both members of my club with whom I play a round quite frequently, are Korean-born.

They both emigrated legally to the United States in the mid 70's. Both became US citizens after serving honorably in our Armed Forces. Between the two, they have three sons now serving in our Armed Forces.

Through perseverance, determination, and plain hard work they both became successful at a variety of enterprises.

Thus, of course, these fine gentlemen are true Americans in the best sense of the word, and are loyal to all that is noble in American tradition. They are also familiar with the activities of the large Korean-American community in the Chicago area.

Recently, I had a rather lengthy discussion of the "Korean invasion" of the LPGA tour with both these fellows.

Their opinions were that while the initial group of Korean women, spearheaded by Se Ri Pak, had a desire to embrace the culture and customs of their adopted land, the second and especially the third wave of the invasion did not share that desire. Rather, they prefer to remain aloof, not even interacting with their neighbors where they reside.

Their goal seems to be to make as much money as possible on the LPGA tour, and to invest that money not in the US but in Korea and elsewhere.

In more blunt terms, they want to plunder this country, just as the hundreds of Arab convenient store owners have done and are doing to the food stamp recipients in the ghettos.

What can be done about this situation is unclear, since the Korean ladies all have their visas in order and we are a nation of laws and respect for the individual.

Ms. Bivens' directive does appear to be a little high-handed, though. And I don't see how it can be enforced without bringing about awhole lot of litigation.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Judge Smails says" There are certain immutable laws of human nature..." "One of these laws is that when you have greatly disparate groups living within the same nation there are only two possibilities: either they fragment and the country is partitioned, or tolitarianism will develop to hold them together". His examples support his statement, but I beg to differ that there are only two possibilities. We can choose to "rub along together" which, by and large, we do in the UK. I am told (it is an edict) that we are a "multicultural" society". The term is contentious, of course. Does it mean embracing our differences or an acceptance of lack of social cohesion/integration?

Alex says "Their goal seems to be to make as much money as possible on the LPGA tour, and to invest that money not in the US but in Korea and elsewhere" and "plundering" the US. There are hundreds of thousands of us who have worked abroad for financial gain, from the maids and manual slaves in the Middle East, to the East European workers currently here, and yes, me, who had no intention of "adopting the culture and customs" of the country we were working in, (one of which was Kuwait in my case), and most certainly had every intention of repatriating our earnings. Why should golf players be any different? Does he really believe that the US players are not in it to make as much money as they can, and are as thrilled to bits to hand over as much as they can in taxes?

So - I digressed as well.

I have never had one word of praise for Ms. Bivens, but the LPGA is in dire straits, so if it faces losing yet more sponsors, and one of the reasons is the lack of interaction at the pro-ams by the non-English speaking players, what would you do? PR could have been better handled of course, but I don't read a pure race card into this.

Wendy,

There is a big difference in a person from a Western country working for a Western corporation in a middle eastern nation, and an Asian person plying her trade for an American entity.

I assune that during your stint in Kuwait, you were not receiving your paycheck from a Kuwaiti institution.

Try going to work in a foreign nation such as France sometimes. It is virtually impossible for an American to find employment in any part of France, including French prefectures in the Caribbean.

Please don't equate the one tournament played at the Evian with the several dozen played in the US.

And if the LPGA is in dire straits as you said, and to which I agree, it isn't being helped by an influx of players who are uncommunicative because they either cannot or will not learn basic English.

If the LPGA is forced to fold its tent and slink out of town in the middle of the night, all the politically correct rhetoric in the world won't do women's golf a bit of good.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Alex, How do you feel about migrant workers? They repatriate a majority share of their earnings to Mexico (mainly). Employers in the States continue to hire them because they are the cheapest and often the most grateful and hardest-working labor force available. Have you any alternatives to the Bivens plan, somewhere between the status quo and the suspension edict? I'm interested to read your thoughts...you too, Smails.

Wendy,

Obviously, if a nation has a stabilizing majority as Britain still does, there will be enough cohesion to keep the nation together. But if a group that isn't assimilating becomes large enough, there will be tremendous problems. Just wait, as the Muslims in your nation continue to grow in number and power, you will find yourselves making increasingly more concessions, and then you will either have to purge yourselves or face domination (in which case it would be the iron fist of Islam keeping you together). But, hey, what do I know? Maybe you look good in a full-length burka. With some women, anything that obscures the face is a plus.

Smails, you remind me more and more of the guy who just couldn't get comfortable around the object of his desire (in this case, it seems to be the girl) and tried to impress and subjugate simultaneously. You haven't grown out of that phase, I see. You made a good point until "But" escaped your fingers.

I love posts like Kiel's - "OH GOD, the Republicans are to blame for all our problems in the US!"

What a bunch of CR*P, Kiel - the US Congress has had a Democratic parity since 2004 and a majority since 2006 - AND the Speaker is a Democrat. IF they felt so strongly about Mr Bush's policies...didn't they have an OBLIGATION to cut off the funding for them...and thereby reduce their impact????

Judge S is right - Kiel, Wolfie, and Monny DO qualify as leftist liberal scum.

Alex,

I agree with your points on the LPGA, just think it could have been handled more positively.

The corporation I worked for in Kuwait was indeed "quasi-American" despite's it's localised name, but if it took the money from Kuwait what the heck is the difference if my paycheck was indirect rather than direct? Your "big difference" totally eludes me.

I also agree that France has restrictive market practives. Obviously it was easier for me to obtain employment in France than for an American to do so (EEC rules and all that). As a "local" employee it was mandatory for me to speak French, but I have difficulty in remembering a single American or Brit assignee who could hold a basic conversation in French, despite free private tuition, even at the end of their 3yr. stints. They were simply "plying their trade", had no intention of adopting the customs and culture, and were sending their earnings back home. I see no difference between them and the LPGA players who are doing the same thing.

Judge Smails,

I believe Enoch Powell made a similar prognosis many, many years ago.

I do agree that some of the concessions being made in the UK to Muslims specifically are getting tiresome (junior school nativity plays banned in case they offend non-Christians - I ask you?), and the amount of money spent on translating all official documents into 20 minority languages would be far better spent on providing English lessons to adult immigrants who need them. However, I think you'll find that the vast majority of Muslims who reside in the UK, whether 1st, 2nd generation, etc, are not exactly pleading for Sharia to be introduced.

The Muslims I lived among and worked with in the Middle East were more tolerant that you appear to be - they never tried to put me in a burka! Perhaps you think you might look dashing in a dish-dash - sort of a la Lawrence of Arabia?

Wendy,

In truth, I make anything look good. But this isn't about me. You fail to see the big picture and really don't understand what's going on. Read sites such as Worldnetdaily.com, AmericanThinker.com and MichaelSavage.com religiously for a year, and your eyes may be opened.

By the way, I don't say you have to agree with everything at those sites (I certainly don't), but they'll give you a perspective you're not getting from the BBC.

Oh dear, BV, I'd like to say "Welcome Back" but you might interpret it as a typical leftist liberal appeasing sentiment? Played any good golf lately?

Now THERE IS an opening. "I make anything look good" by virtue of the pall he casts? Quite the triumvirate of sites you offer up. I'll take your challenge, Smails; they're bookmarked.

Judge Smails,

I know that you assume my reading is confined to Huffington, (I only recall her as the lover of Bernard Levin and President of Cambridge Union Society and have never read anything she has written in US), and my perspective gained from the BBC (which is non-political). You're wrong about that as you are about so many other things. One of the many benefits of being married to someone from a different country, culture, language, etc, is the challenge to inculcatory thinking.

I don't think it would make any difference to you who or what you read, as your mind is closed. Thank you for the offered sites - I'll take a gander, but won't commit to a year. I'm happy not to be the finished article as yet.

Wendy,

When did the BBC become non-political?

Most of what I've seen on that network could just as well have been aired on Pravda.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Alex,

Yes, that BBC comment raised my eyebrows, too. What vindicates my assessment of Wendy is that she would actually believe that the BBC has no bias, that it doesn't approach reportage from a certain perspective. Why, even in journalism school they teach you that everyone has a perspective.

Wendy, here is just a wee bit of education in Media 101. Bias evidences itself not just is how something is reported, but in what is reported in the first place. In other words, why choose to focus on Abu Ghraib and not the oil-for-food scandal (a much bigger story)? The answer is that news bureaus makes judgments, and these are colored by their biases. Thus, while hard news may often seem objective in how it is reported, remember that, in the least, there was bias with respect to what the media outlet chose to run in the first place.

Of course, the point everyone misses is that not all bias is created equal. The real question is whether you're biased in favor of the truth, or a lie. But that is a much deeper issue.

Alex,

Yes, that was indeed phrased carelessly.

However, if you can equate BBC with Pravda it says everything about where you are coming from.

Curiously enough though, if you take a quick peek at Pravda on-line the rhetoric sounds awfully similar to that used by a friend of yours, even if the sentiments differ.

What's the matter - thrown by my agreeing with you on LPGA points?

Wendy,

If you're referring to President Bush, I wish he were as nationalistic as Putin. Then we wouldn't be subject to invasion by hordes from the south.

As for the Russian media, you do know that it sings Moscow's tune, don't you? Journalists are now afraid to criticize Putin; they don't want to be "LitvinenKO'd."

My response was blocked so will also try in sections.

Judge Smails,

I was referring to you.

It never occurred to me that the Russian media were biased. Thank you so much for the enlightenment.

Of course the BBC reports from a Western perspective. However, I also try to stand in other people's shoes, whether it is why Russia feels provoked or, for example, why France loathes the "Anglo-Saxon model" (working practices, social security, etc) even though ostensibly both countries have similar governments/policies.

Aha, if you thought Ron Mon's site doesn't like the word "cards", it absolutely hates the word "social- list"!

Finally, it doesn't mean that I ended up agreeing on these topics(tho' makes for interesting visits to Franco-Russian relatives) but at least I get to make up my own mind, and am not merely brainwashed - least of all by you, Judge Smails. Nothing wrong with being nationalistic, but do think you should get out more.

Judge Smails,

Wendy certainly seems to be a pleasant person, but one with a decidedly liberal bent.

She apparently thinks that the radical Muslims whose avowed intentions are to destroy Western civilization can be cajoled out of their militancy by negotiations.

She must have forgotten the picture of the Afghan women being shot in the head in front of a crowd in a soccer stadium in Kabul.

Maybe she thinks she will be able to talk her executioner out of pulling the trigger if and when she faces a similar fate.

To get back on the topic at hand, it is my opinion that it is even more than the language barrier that is the threatening the existence of the LPGA.

First, the LPGA is a minor league at best. It puts forth an inferior product. The play on the LPGA is dreadfully slow. And why should it be anything else? It is being played by mostly diminutive ladies with little strength in comparison to their male counterparts on men's tours.

So lackluster is the LPGA that it is now actually being suggested that Bubbles, the effervescent Michelle Wie, be granted fully exempt status on the LPGA tour without ever having qualified. The reason? To attract spectators to the premier Women's golf game, even if it takes such a sideshow.

With the full-blown invasion of the Korean ladies, their is no name and face recognition and connection. Here's an exemple of what I mean: Try putting the names of the following Korean women, ranked between 7th and 38th in the Rolex rankings, with their corresponding photographs.

Ji-Yai Shin Sen-Hwa Lee
Inbee Park Eun_Hee Ji
Hee-Won Han Mi Hyun Kim
Na Yeon Choi Mi-Jeong Jeon
Shi-hyun Ahn In Kyung Kim

You can throw in Na On Min for good measure.

Now, be honest Ron Mon and you other apologists for the Korean invasion, admit that if you could get more than a few right it would be pure, dumb luck.

These women and a lot of others came to the US to play golf for one reason, to make a substantial amount of money, many times more than they could make on the Korean Women's Tour. And despite all the crowing I've read on these boards by the position of the US dollar with respect to the Euro, the Korean women are not clamoring to go to the Ladies European Tour.

Ron Mon, I have no problem if people from Mexico or any nation desire to enter this country to better their lives. After all, it is the absolute best nation on Earth, the scathing rhetoric of the liberals notwithstanding. My grandfather brought his family, my father included ,to America. He was a truly proud American who carried his citizenship papers with him at all times to show to anyone who cared to see them. He, of course, was a LEGAL immigrant, something that the large majority of landscapers and day laborers are not.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Thank you Alex.

BTW, I may be diminutive but I'm a damned fast golf player.

Unfortunately I find myself in agreement with you that the name and face recognition of the Korean players is even more of a threat to the LPGA than the language barrier.

I had to put a bit of effort into finding a few Asian players to learn about and support. Not from any liberal bent, but as they looked as though they were going to be dominating the leaderboards for a good while to come, I didn't feel I had much choice.

If I looked at an LPGA leaderboard and the top players were those you have named, it would be a turn-off. Racist? Almost certainly.

Sorry - had to stop for Euro Ryder Cup team announcement - Casey & Poulter. Feeling bilious.

Oh, wait, I've been summoned again? Sorry, just been on the sidelines while you left-wing guys flirt with the European girl. Listen, Smails and Alex, you don't have to hide your liberal leanings any longer; you can approach Wendy and admit that you long for her bent. As for me, I'm happy to recognize the validity of her right to an opinion while maintaining my staunch conservative place in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I agree that the problem is mainly in their names. We only have one Pak and she won a tournament in spectacular fashion. We only have one Birdie and she did the same. Here's my Chris Berman-esque solution to the problem:

Ji-Yai "Holy" Shin
Sen-Hwa "Bruce" Lee
Inbee "outta the" Park
Eun_Hee Ji "Whiz"
Hee-Won "Hee Lost" Han
Mi Hyun "Little" Kim
Na Yeon "KJ" Choi
Mi-Jeong "Deon" Jeon
Shi-hyun "What are you" Ahn
In Kyung "Eagle" Kim

Easy, huh?

Ron Mon,

If that is the best you can do, I'm sorry to tell you that comedy is not your strong suit.

Wendy,

There is nothing whatsoever racist about your inability to decipher the names of the Korean invaders.

Look at it this way: The Koreans probably can't figure out our names, either.

What was it that old Rudyard Kipling had to say?

"East is East, and West is West-----"

Alex USMC 1969-73

Comedy? Don't have time for it. I'm on the side of the Central states, forget East Coast-West Coast rifts, Biggie and Puff!

Be careful, though. Even thought the Twain shall not meet until they stand together under God, someone reading this might think you are in the business of finding a quote to suit your needs, then displaying it. I don't think that, of course, since I side with Kipling and other members of the monarch who tried and still try to forcibly enslave eastern folk.

Ron Mon,

You can no more embarrass me off your blogs than Judge Smails can browbeat me off them. Here I am and here I stay (unless you bar me of course which is your prerogative)- at least until after the Ryder Cup.

Just for that I will point out that Henrik Stenson is no rookie. In the last Ryder Cup he and David Howell halved their foursomes with Toms & Cink, lost with Harrington in fourballs to Verplank & Johnson (mainly down to Harrington who was our worse player) and halved his singles match against Taylor.

Alex,

I was going to clarify my racism along the lines of feeling more comfortable with the familiar, but got floored by Poulter announcement. I'm not sure a person exists without a single racist bone in his or her body. Anyway I don't have a solution to the LPGA conundrum - maybe profiles with photos for the field as they do on the PGA tour site might help a bit, (with Ron Mon's nicknames in brackets).

I'm just grateful that three people are concerned enough to make this thread live on. Wendy, I'm sorry if I embarrassed y'all...just my way of trying to help a couple of shy blokes. I KNEW as I was typing that I was getting one of them wrong. That balances things out perfectly for Europe and eliminates a sliver of the USA glimmer of hope regarding experience. Funny thing is, USA gets two cracks at international caps for every one that the Euros get (I'm not counting the Seve cup, are you?) Experience should be on the USA side.

Obviously Seve Cup is not the same cauldron as the other two, but still has team ethos. Three of the 4 Euro rookies played in that BTW, so they've had their aperitif. By that measure, should Azinger go for Stricker, Austin, Mahan and Verplank from Prez.Cup? At least their experience was positive. I don't think any of the 3 US rookies currently on the team are going to be fazed anyway.

Ron Mon,

This thread has wandered pretty far from its original topic, so I guess that it's all right for me to put in my two shillings worth.

Wendy my dear,

You appear to be quite in a snit over Faldo's picks of Casey and Poulter. I personally don't see a thing wrong with either choice.

I look at it as a sort of youth movement by Nick.

Ian just recently finished a strong second to Padraig in the Open. And if I recall correctly, didn't Paul spread eagle the field in match play a few years ago?

I swear, some of you folks would kick if you were hanged with a new rope.

Wendy,

Don't fret so. Nick knows what he is doing.

Alex USMC 1969-73

Alex,

First Ron Mon tries to placate me by talking Ryder Cup, and then you think a pat on the head and a "Now, now, calm down dear" is going to do the trick?! (I had to look up the word "snit" and the blurb ended by saying "Snit is a useful expression, in my opinion, partly because it connotes the proper disdain for those having the snit").

Nonetheless, I admit to being in a snit.

I have no problem with Paul Casey; his decision to stay in the States was only to be expected as he could not get into the team via the European points list, and he has an excellent RC record. It's the injustice of selecting Ian Poulter that gets to me, based both on his decision to put Fedex first and on his performance. I can only think Faldo's mind had already been made up on his boys prior to Clarke's and Pettersson's good performances. Even so, it is plain wrong. I know that the Captains can use whatever criteria they like for their picks,
but they are "our" teams as well.

I take as much interest in the composition of the US side and whilst I don't think much of the selection of Chad Campbell, (particularly in view of his dire RC record), I can't see that any other US player can feel particularly hard done by, as Clarke & Pettersson should.

Rant over.

Wendy,

Who gave you, a Brit, the right to comment on the composition of our Ryder Cup team?

Judge Smails,

"Who"?!! I might take a "What?", but I'll never take a "Who"?

Mislaid your Barbie doll again?

Who gave me, a yank, the right to comment on anything? Flirting again, I see.

Says a lot about your seduction techniques then Ron Mon. "Make 'em laugh, make 'em laugh, make 'em laugh"! And I do - thank you.

Don't you just hate it when the tournament's postponed? AND my round was rained off today. AND it's my week to get dinner.

Well, Wendy, that's because of that crummy weather you have. Here, however, it has been bright and sunny most of the time. Eat your heart out . . . along with your plum pudding.

*grins* Wendy, thank you. Unlike our humorless blog owner MoRon, I am actually able to separate a genuine comment from leftist liberal scum ranting....

Did someone say 'multiculturalism'? ICK, that leaves a bad taste. Anyway MoRon - the point about America has always been that we embraced the LEGAL immigrant who wanted nothing more than to participate fully (by LEARNING ENGLISH and BECOMING A CITIZEN) in the American dream/experiment. It is NOT about allowing disparate minority groups to dictate what the majority can/cannot do or say because it 'offends their culture'. Their CULTURE is now AMERICAN...get used to it, or GET OUT.

I know that's a tough thing to try and wrap your tiny mind around...but DO give it a shot...

Their culture is "now American" is quite humorous, especially in the northeast and southwest. Many people preserve their cultural foundation while embracing the new one. It takes three generations (my guess) to fully become "American." It doesn't happen instantly, nor would we want it too, as it would ring hollow. My mind, tiny as it is, wraps around a lot of things.

Oh, and Wendy....didn't I see a report that the Archbishop of Canterbury believes England should adopt some of the Sharia laws to accomodate your Muslim immigrants?

Can't wait to see how THAT works out...you might want to go ahead ad get fitted for that burkah now...

Judge Smails,

Yes, it has been yet another crummy summer over here. However, my little bit of the country has not done too badly. (Hurricanes Hardly Ever Happen in Hampshire).

With your direct line, can you stop it raining at the BMW then, please?

It was creme caramel with fresh raspberries actually.

BV,

Remember what they say about how you turn a liberal into a conservative (this is roughly how it goes): mug him. Liberals are people who live in a fantasy world of flawed ideology. They simply believe what they do because it feels right, and that is enough. The end result is that they don't accept reality until it rears its ugly head and hits them square between their blinded eyes. Unfortunately, by then it is often too late.

Liberals will understand well the perils of multiculturalism when the walls finally come tumbling down, when they are the target of genocide, when ethnic wars are raging, or some other such thing happens. Of course, this is when they do a 180 degree about-face and become Nazis (yes, I'm serious), because there is no reasonable middle ground with people who are governed by emotion.

BV,

You did indeed see such a report, - you might have missed the howls of ridicule from public and press alike which followed it, however.

It appears to be only you and Judge Smails who are trying to hurry me into a burkah as far as I can tell.

Perhaps that's your solution for not being able to tell British males & females apart?

One point that puzzles me. Why do you feel so strongly that immigrants should become citizens? If the immigrant works hard, pays taxes, obeys the laws, speaks the language, contributes to the local community, society, etc, etc, what's the issue here? I'm genuinely interested because my husband has never taken up British citizenship (and doesn't intend to) after many years here but has never met with any antipathy about it. Lots of good-natured ribbing, but he'd get that anyway.