Notice where MP said “I’d be very surprised, just because of what happened last time.” She doesn't want anyone to forget Michelle's bad round last year. I think it's more jealosy than gamesmanship. I don't see MP saying similar things about her other competitors (Creamer, Gulbis, Miyazato, ...).

I think it will be very interesting to see how pressel perform against Wie at the Field Open. They should be paired against each other and I wonder how Pressel will feel when she is being out drive by 50 yards...

David.... well you know what they say, drive for show...putt for dough

The money Wie would have earned in 2005 would easily put her high enough on the money list to qualify, and that was the basis for the 2004 exemption. Because of the outcry last time, Fay wants to use some other basis for letting her play this time--but because of the outcry last time, he cannot refuse to let her in this time for the same reason without admitting that he was wrong last time.

I would hope that the USGA will learn its lesson and eliminate any exemptions based upon LPGA money lists. Hopefully they will be able to do it in time for this year's open. That way not only Michelle Wie(possibly) but all the other LPGA pros who would have to rely on the money list exemption will have to go through qualifying. It seems to me that LPGA pros were so upset by Wie's exemption in 2004 that they would gladly forgo money list exemptions for LPGAS pros if that is what it takes to make Wie go though qualifying, and I think they should be given their wish. This might help open up more spots for amateurs, who seem to do quite well in the event.

I think Wie's performances last year mean that she should automatically get an exemption into this years US Womens Open.

Apart from 23rd at the US Open, her next worst lpga performance was 14th position.

At this level of play, it is not only likely that she would make the cut, but also be one of the favourites to win the title. It would be silly to exclude someone like this.

By the way, it was said that it will probably be decided, based on her performances in lpga events up to the US Open. That is fair enough.

Shanks,
I think you are half right on Pressels games.

Yes she is most definetely trying to annoy Wie. There is no doubt about that but I don't think Wie will be unnessarily worried by it.

The 2nd reason why Pressel is bringing this up is jealousy. There is little doubt that she is very jealous of all the publicity that surrounds Michelle and which she thinks she should have herself. She wants that limelight, and she is trying to make her name off Wie.

Pressel knows that making a Wie comment is one very sure way of getting publicity.
The publicity could be good for womens golf in the short term, but I don't really think Pressel will be challenging Wie in a few year time.
Of course I could be underestimating her, but that is just my opinion.

I would agree that Pressel is hostile because of the advantages Wie has been granted. But do not underestimate the fact that Pressel believes that she is as good or better than Wie. Pressel has a superior record in national amateur events and truly believes in her heart that she is every bit as deserving as Wie, especially since her 2nd place finish in the 2005 US Open, coupled with Wie's disappearing act. I can't really argue with that logic so I'm a little understanding of her resentment.

On the other hand, my personal opinion is that Wie puts more "butts in the seats" so I am also understanding of the sponsors decisions to grant these exemptions. However, when it comes to the US Open, it is, and should be, harder to grant exemptions other than for past champions or extremely good recent play. Michelle played extremely well last Summer but that was 2005. When she got her exemption in 2004, it was on the heels of her 4th place finish in the Kraft Nabisco. Should she play mediocre golf this Spring, my guess is that she will have to go through qualifying like everybody else.

Hey everyone! Amy Yang, 16 years old just won the ANZ Australian Ladies Masters(a ladies pro event) as an amateur! Something Wie nor Pressel has never done. It tells me there some young gifted talent out there that can win and on the ladies pro tour but don't get the hype like Wie enjoys. By the way names like Webb and Miyasato played in this event.

If the LPGA Tour pros believe Michelle Wie's exemtpions are undeserved and are thus unhappy with her presence--and some of them DO feel this way--then there's no real reason we should be overjoyed at her receiving an exemption for no other reason but to increase USGA revenue.

The LPGA ladies KNOW their tour inside and out--it belongs to them, after all. And if they say Wie's 'right' to play is unwarranted, it is. They know better than us.

Oh, and I know that Pressel talks about Michelle a lot. But so what? Morgan knows that Michelle will be her foremost competitor--coupled with Paula Creamer, of course--so will thus keep a fierce eye on her golf, and also will be jealous of her fame sometimes.

I don't think this stuff should bother Morgan. She has proven herself to be an exceptional player, winning the U.S. Women's Amateur. She also had a huge chance of winning the U.S. Women's Open until Birdie Kim played that awesome bunker shot.

What has Michelle done thus far? Well, she has wowed us with those huge drives and that colossal bank account. But what else. Except for that, Michelle Wie is mainly just hype; a marketing gimmick. We've yet to see any truly brilliant golf from her yet--no wins, but yes, plenty of long drives and yipped putts.

Missing a PGA Tour cut by a stroke--and getting DQ'ed from your professional debut--does not make you a brilliant player.

David said:
and getting DQ'ed from your professional debut--does not make you a brilliant player.
*******************************

No, but 4 top 3 finishes in 8 lpga starts does.

Dean said:
Hey everyone! Amy Yang, 16 years old just won the ANZ Australian Ladies Masters(a ladies pro event) as an amateur! Something Wie nor Pressel has never done.
************************

Dean that was a Euro-Australian sponsored event and is not in the same class as an lpga event.

A 2nd place in an lpga major is a far greater achievement, than a win in the ANZ Australian Ladies Masters.

David said:
The LPGA ladies KNOW their tour inside and out--it belongs to them, after all. And if they say Wie's 'right' to play is unwarranted, it is. They know better than us.
****************************

Those same players said that she didn't belong at the lpga championships because they thought it was for lpga players only.

Then she played it and beat everyone in the field by 2 shots, excluding Annika.
I think she shows that she belonged there and proved those players wrong. I suspect that she could prove the same people wrong if she gets the US Open invite.

David said:
I don't think this stuff should bother Morgan. She has proven herself to be an exceptional player, winning the U.S. Women's Amateur. She also had a huge chance of winning the U.S. Women's Open until Birdie Kim played that awesome bunker shot.

What has Michelle done thus far? Well, she has wowed us with those huge drives and that colossal bank account. But what else. Except for that, Michelle Wie is mainly just hype; a marketing gimmick. We've yet to see any truly brilliant golf from her yet--no wins, but yes, plenty of long drives and yipped putts.
********************************

In one paragraph, you say Pressel has achieved alot and in the next you claim that Wie has achieved nothing.

The fact is that Wie has achieved far more than Pressel. Pressel's US Amateur title is very nice to have, but her 2nd place in a major is far more of an achievement than that.
As regards achievements at the top level, it is easy to understand that Wie has achieved far more than Pressel.

Here are their finishes in 2005 on the lpga:
Wie: 2,2,2,3,12,14,23.
Pressel: 2,5,19,19,23,23,25.

Hopefully it is obvious to you that Wie's results are much better.
Add to that, Wie had more difficult events, whereas Pressel played against some weaker fields.

AVERAGE PLACINGS:
Wie: 8th
Pressel 16th

Surely that shows to you, the gap in their performances.
Pressel needs to pick up her game if she wants to catch up to Wie.

I agree with you Norman that the competition level at a major is higher then at the ANZ, but a win is a win and it sure would be nice if Michelle would go ahead and get one so we wouldn't have to listen to any more stats saying how many top 5's she has in her career. You can not be both brilliant and winless eventually you must produce. Since the beginning of time we have heard the saying, "the best player to never win a major" well Michelle Wie is possibly the best player to never win period! She's good her results say as much, but to be great you must win.

Shanks said:
Pressel has a superior record in national amateur events
*************************

The problem with that is lots and lots and lots and lots of people have superior national amateur event records to that of Wie.
Are they all more deserving?

Kimo said:
You can not be both brilliant and winless eventually you must produce.
***************************
Eventually????

True. Eventually. But why are you so eager for her to be winning at 16, when nobody has ever won at that level under 18 years old.

She still has 2 years to break the record.

Norman, the protest over Wie's exemption into the LPGA championship was not based on playing ability. Rather it was based on the fact that Wie was an amateur. Those player's contention was, and still is, that it is their championship for LPGA members only. No amateur, no matter how good, had EVER played in it. And Michelle Wie is not the first very good amateur in history, not by a long shot. Only sponsor pressure was able to get her that exemption. BUT that's what they get for taking the money and attaching a sponsors name to a "major" championship. My opinion is: they traded integrity when they sold those naming rights and they should put a sock in it now. Could you imagine the men playing in something called the Cadillac Masters?

"Comment from: Shanks [Member] · http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/shanks
Norman, the protest over Wie's exemption into the LPGA championship was not based on playing ability. Rather it was based on the fact that Wie was an amateur. Those player's contention was, and still is, that it is their championship for LPGA members only."

Michelle will not be allowed to play as an LPGA member until she is eighteen Shanks. The money she earns will not count on the ADT official money list as she is not yet an LPGA member. Winning events will not change these facts and give her a full tour exemption, only a two year for that particular event.

That is unless the LPGA devises a way to support someone's academic goals thru academic exemptions.

In the end the LPGA will find a way to bring Michelle into the fold before she is eighteen. Sponsors love a larger gate and TV audience no matter who the player is. Hey Shanks, money talks and BS walks away.

Shanks, you say Pressel's comments indicate she "looks at Wie as no more than an equal and is not afraid of her in any way." It seems to me her comments indicate the opposite, she is trying to avoid competing with Wie. If she really wanted to show she is better, she should say "I'd be happy for Wie to play in the Open, I'll face her anywhere."

Whatelse is new? Pressel mouthing off? I wish she or Herb would be more careful for their sakes. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. In this case..."mouth." Well, to be fair. What do people think how she will do at SBS Open? 1st place? runner up? top 10? It would be interesting to see how people think she will do at the first LPGA tournament. Not that I would be watching it.

Wie not playing in the US Open -- who will it hurt the most? Wie, the US Open or the LPGA?

"Comment from: Wayne [Visitor]
Wie not playing in the US Open -- who will it hurt the most? Wie, the US Open or the LPGA?"

That will open another date where she can schedule another Asian PGA event and pick up another cool 1.5 million or more to soften the blow. Ahhh the pain of rejection.

The USGA and LPGA are the big losers not Michelle Wie.

If I were BJ, I would have Michelle exclusively schedule events on the Asian Tours for the next two years and give the finger to the LPGA and USGA.

Nike and Sony would both like this strategy very much indeed. Their largest potential market growth is in Asia.

Michelle Wie should let Morgan Pressel have it. She should do a commercial with Birdie Kim promoting this year's Women's Open. We would see a replay of Birdie's miracle shot and Michelle celebrating with her. Then Michelle Wie could say last year I congratulated the winner--this year I want to be the winner.

Last time she was given an exemption based on the fact that she would have been in the top 35 for the year, this time she could be given an exemption based upon the fact that she would have been in the top 40 for the previous year.

Wie should ignore Pressel's comments. If asked about them, she should say "Is there some reason Morgan doesn't want me in the field?"

How about this.... Miss Wie should get an exemption IF AND ONLY IF... she qualifies for it THIS YEAR. Otherwise, she should have to go through qualifing just like all of the other PROS that are not exempt. What ever happened to having to work for something instead of it always being handed to you???? Hey, if Miss Wie earns her spot, all the power to her. If not, she will have something to shoot for NEXT YEAR.

The point is that Pressel is being a hypocrite. She should not be mouthing off about exemtions, when she herself is the beneficiary of a special exemption from LPGA allowing her to compete before 18. Wie should just ignore her. When Morgan turns 18, all this media hype will cool off. Let her results from real LPGA competition determine her worth. I would be surprised if she even made top 10. Another fat girl with an oversized mouth, something LPGA has plenty of.

Let's be real..Golf is not consider a major sport, espcially LPGA. It is far more intersting to see Michelle Wie competing w/ the Men and seeing her playing at LPGA. I'll bet all the money in the world that Pressel w/ love to compete against the Men, but only problem is that everyone knows that she will embarass herself. Do you really think she can break 80

Paul

Is there some reason Morgan doesn't want Michelle in the field? YES. Morgan Pressel hates Michelle Wie. It is as simple as that. If she didn't actually hate Michelle Wie before the Open, the sight of Michelle Wie celebrating with Birdie Kim got her to hate Wie.

Gamesmanship is a two way street and they who are not adept at it should attempt it only with caution.

Morgan has inadvertently left herself wide open for a counter-punch (to extend the Ali analogy) by her inappropriate use of the word "need".

All Michelle has to do when questioned about Morgan's remark is to reply with a sweet smile, "I am pleased that a fellow golfer of Morgan's caliber recognizes that I am quite capable of qualifying and don't 'need' the exemption to get into the tournament. However, if my performance prior to the tournament is good enough to get a Tour Member an exemption, I think I would 'deserve' to get one too, don't you?"

"Comment from: John [Visitor]
Gamesmanship is a two way street and they who are not adept at it should attempt it only with caution.

Morgan has inadvertently left herself wide open for a counter-punch (to extend the Ali analogy) by her inappropriate use of the word "need".

All Michelle has to do when questioned about Morgan's remark is to reply with a sweet smile, "I am pleased that a fellow golfer of Morgan's caliber recognizes that I am quite capable of qualifying and don't 'need' the exemption to get into the tournament. However, if my performance prior to the tournament is good enough to get a Tour Member an exemption, I think I would 'deserve' to get one too, don't you?"

I wouldn't count Michelle out of the SBS Open just yet. Morgan (Big Mouth) Pressel might have made up Michelle's mind for her and she will walk onto the 1st tee at Turtle Bay Monday morning and "qualify" for the tournament.

Now I would pay a dollar to see the look on Morgan's face if that happens.

Boom Sha Ka la.

Michelle could use the qualifier as her wednesday practice round and still only miss three days of school. She has logged many rounds at Turtle Bay over the years ans knows the Palmer course well.

Hmmmmm that's right. The SBS is an "Open"...if you qualify, they can't turn you away...Interesting theory I had not thought of...Oh well, wait and see.

Morgan dissed Michelle on her home turf. Of course Michelle would like nothing better than introduce Miss Pressel to Hawaiian Golf on the North Shore.

Pressel might have a hard time getting it past the regular ladies tee with the wind. Last year the SBS was a real test with 35 mph winds.

Shanks,

It had nothing to do with gamesmanship. You're giving this young girl too much credit and are exhibiting a lack of understanding of the female character. That's not a put-down, though, most men don't have a clue about women.

Pressel is simply angry at how gratuitously Bubbles has been hyped AND is jealous of her. It's nothing more than that -- emotion. Pressel is right, however -- Wie is largely a media creation.

"Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Shanks,

It had nothing to do with gamesmanship. You're giving this young girl too much credit and are exhibiting a lack of understanding of the female character. That's not a put-down, though, most men don't have a clue about women."

And you have no idea what a female Koreans' temper is like when she hears someone spew crap in their direction. Michelle may have been born and raised in the USA, but she was raised as a Korean American. Morgan may have done her a favor by getting under her skin. Anger is a powerful motivator if controlled.

If you don't think Pressel is trying to get under Wie's skin, you don't know much about Pressel. And while many posts here are saying Wie should just do this or that, think this way or that, it's all about how she handles this internally - not always easy for a 16 year old. I hope she rises to the challenge. But one thing is for sure, it will be very interesting to watch this story unfold.

Pressel is simply jealous of wie and she simply can not hide her emotion. We don't need to bring gamesmanship to explain pressel's comments.

If pressel is really trying to play gamesmaship, she better think one more time.

At 2004 sony, Appelby said wie would be lucky to break 80 and everybody knows what happened.

At 2004 women's open Veterans cried over USGA's special exemption to wie and wie finsihed 13th and earned automatic spot for next year's women's open and made it sure there would be no talk of special exemption.

Last year entire lpga players cried wie doesn't belong to lpga championship and wie finished runner up.

Last year Danny Green said wie doesn't belong to publinx and wie reached quarter final.

Last year at nabisco pressel publically complained wie is getting every exemptions . Pressel had one time 4 strokes lead over wie in final round but fell apart at back 9 and ended up losing to wie. She was so upset, she cried even before putting out 18th hole.

My thinking is pressel will have better chance to beat wie when she keeps her mouth shut.

Morgan vs. Michelle who cares? If I want to watch overly dramatic teenage girls catfighting I'll watch entertainment tonight or reality television. I am a fan of golf and these two just do it for me. Pressel is a loud-mouthed bulldog of a girl whose claim to fame is a stellar amateur career and coming in second at the U.S. Open, big deal. Wie is a slickly marketed and talented pheonom who has even less of a resume, so what. Why would I care what either one of these two have to say. Neither one of them has experienced winning on the LPGA. If the LPGA is banking on this rilvary to carry it to higher ratings and national prominence that is just sad. Annika wins 50% of the events she enters last year and Paula Creamer has one of the best rookie campaigns in history and we have to listen to spoiled brat Morgan Pressel talk trash to the winless wonder Michelle Wie---Pathetic.

Yeah Wie really showed that mean old Stuart Appleby with that missed cut in 2004. It just came to me if you combined Pressel and Wie you might have something resembling a championship golfer. Pressel has the drive and grit to be a champion, but not the overall talent level of Wie, while Wie has all the talent, but not the killer instinct that Pressel has.

As I watch the press and the public build up the great personal vendetta between Michelle Wie and Morgan Pressel, I am reminded of one of the great face offs of the last century...Joe Louis vs. Max Schmelling.

Max had nailed Joe in their first match and the whole world had taken sides by the time they met for a re-match...The Nazi Superman against the Brown Bomber. When they met Louis dropped Schmelling in the first round.

But that's no what I am remembering...what I remember was that Joe and Max became close personal friends. When Louis fell on hard times, it was Schmelling who sent him money on several occasions. When Louis died, Schmelling paid for his funeral and served as a pall bearer. When asked on his 90th birthday what he most regretted in life Max Schmelling said "...that Joe Louis is not still alive, and I am not still his friend."

There is a lot of future left for Michelle and Morgan's rivalry to play itself out in. Nobody knows where it will end.

Trip said:
Yeah Wie really showed that mean old Stuart Appleby with that missed cut in 2004.
---------------------------


Trip, Appleby said that she didn't belong there and would be lucky to break 80.
She shot 72 and 68 and showed that she belonged there.
So, yes indeed she really did show him.

"Comment from: Shanks [Member] · http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/shanks
If you don't think Pressel is trying to get under Wie's skin, you don't know much about Pressel. And while many posts here are saying Wie should just do this or that, think this way or that, it's all about how she handles this internally - not always easy for a 16 year old. I hope she rises to the challenge. But one thing is for sure, it will be very interesting to watch this story unfold."

She handled the pressure pretty damned well Shanks at 13, 14, 15 and when she was DQ/d as a 16 year old.

What made me a believer she is the real deal was how she came back after her round from hell at the Sony. Most teenage girls would have skipped the second day or completely fell apart on the course, not card a 68 in a PGA event.

She showed up and gave her fans a good show and was disappointed she didn't shoot a 64 to make the cut. That is a demonstration of the controlled anger I wrote about above. She was really pissed at her performance when she left after the first round.

When she fell apart in the third round at the US Open leading after the third round, she came back in the next two events and put together a second and third place finish at the Evian and Weetabix. She was fifteen years old.

In first event as a professional she completed all rounds and was standing alone in fourth place against the top women golfers in the world. Until a golf reporter inserted himself in the Wie story more than a day after he witnessed an infraction. She shed some tears, but took it better than most would and didn't blame anyone but herself.

Shanks I would say her internals are working just fine for someone of any age. Now she is really pissed (internally) and focused on winning to silence her critics, including the divine Ms. Pressel.

Showed him that she could break 80, yes, showed him or anyone for that matter that she belongs on the PGA tour, no. She showed that she can miss cuts, bfd! She's a great talent for sure, but she hasn't shown me or the world that she can win on the LPGA or make cuts on the PGA tour, so until she does quit your yappin' about how great she is and another thing when can we officially stop citing her age, she is fully mature physically and should be considered just like any other female pro, hell with her natural genetic advantages she should dominate women's golf. Also it has already been proven that teens can win on the LPGA and worldwide. You Wie people are the biggest bunch of cry babies, always complaining about the reporter, the wind, her age, that mean old Morgan Pressel, enough with the excuses. I want her to win worse than any of you do, so I don't have to hear anymore of this stupid arguments about how dominate she is when she's never won a gd thing.

Trip could you enlighten the forum on what bfd and gd mean?

Trip said;

"hell with her natural genetic advantages she should dominate women's golf."

Trip, just what genetic advantages would you be writing of that Michelle has?

wow,wow,wow...You sure do get a fine head of steam out of that old boiler of yours, trip old buddy.
The fun part is that you sound a lot like Ms Pressel, very emotional.
Seems to me that Shanks got exactly the kind of response he was looking for from you.

One little thing i'd like to know, tho. How do you define "gamesmanship", Shanks?

Is it anything like this definition from Merriam-Webster?
"gamesmanship
One entry found for gamesmanship.

Main Entry: games·man·ship
Pronunciation: 'gAmz-m&n-"ship
Function: noun
1 : the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules
2 : the use of ethically dubious methods to gain an objective "
Not a very nice way of looking at Ms Pressel at all but then what do I know?

1-Putt, Trip is using those initials instead of cursing - which is appreciated. I'd prefer not to edit or delete anyone's post.
If you think about it, I'm sure you can figure out what he means by those 2 acronyms.

putt4par, looks to me like Webster's has a good handle on the meaning of the word.

Comment from: John [Visitor]
**
As I watch the press and the public build up the great personal vendetta between Michelle Wie and Morgan Pressel, I am reminded of one of the great face offs of the last century...Joe Louis vs. Max Schmelling.
**

LOL ! Here, surely, is one of the silliest comparisons ever!

Isn't there kind of a big difference, with the difference being especially stark for Michelle Wie?

At least both Joe Louis and Max Schmelling had actually WON something when they fought each other. That's a lot more than you can say about Michelle Wie.

-George

To: 4-putt (aka Michelle Wie)

dueling dictionaries:

*****
Dictionary.com

gamesmanship

1. The art or practice of using tactical maneuvers to further one's aims or better one's position: “a sometimes wry, sometimes savage look at the players, political gamesmanship, turf battles and outright chaos that permeated Washington” (David M. Alpern).

2. The use in a sport or game of aggressive, often dubious tactics, such as psychological intimidation or disruption of concentration, to gain an advantage over one's opponent.
*****

Looks like #2 might apply. Or #1.

Either way: YAWN

-George

Here's what I call hype:

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Japan+kicks+off+snow+festival&id=84534

"Northern Japan kicked off its annual snow festival with more than 300 snow and ice sculptures on display. ... Towering above all the others is the sculpture of Japan's golf idol Ai Miyazato, standing about 50 feet tall. " See link for picture.

Trip said:
Showed him that she could break 80, yes, showed him or anyone for that matter that she belongs on the PGA tour, no.
------------

He said that she couldn't break 80, so she did prove her wrong.
Is that not easy to understand?

Trip,
Just to add to the last comment,

Appleby said she would struggle to break 80.
Obviously scoring 72 and 68 proved him wrong twice.

If he had claimed, she wouldn't make the cut, then maybe you could say that she did not prove him wrong, but making the cut was not his claim. Breaking 80 was his claim.

Trip said:
so until she does quit your yappin' about how great she is and another thing when can we officially stop citing her age, she is fully mature physically and should be considered just like any other female pro, hell with her natural genetic advantages she should dominate women's golf. Also it has already been proven that teens can win on the LPGA and worldwide.
-----------------

Her age is just turned 16. That is very important Trip.
If she is going to take over for Annika, surely you don't expect it to happen at that age.
As regards teens winning, it has been stated that nobody has won on the lpga under the age of 18 years. Please correct if this is wrong.

The other 16 year old who won a tournament was in an Australian tournament I think, so that wouldn't have been such a great field would it?

Wie has plenty of time to become the youngest lpga winner. I think that will happen, and I think it will be a great achievement.

Norman, you simply go from blog to blog quoting meaningless stats about Michelle Wie. Similarly, such stats about Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel and the local club pro are just as meaningless.

We couldn't give a rat's ass how many top-3 finishes Michelle has in x amount of 'starts.' A top-3 finish isn't news. A bunch of top-3 finishes is doubtless 'good' play, but until you win something, you haven't proven yourself.

Anna Kournikova turned out to be nothing but hype - not a single pro victory, but plenty of money in the bank. Kournikova won't be remembered as a great tennis player, and unless Wie wins, she won't be remembered as a great golfer.

Speaking of "meaningless statistics" it is interesting to note that Morgan and Michelle had identical numbers of exemptions last year...all the law allows.

Yet to hear Morgan speak you would think Michelle got them all and she got none.

In fact for Morgan:

"She made the cut in all seven of her LPGA Tour appearances, with two top-five finishes, none lower than 25th, including a 19th place finish at the Kraft Nabisco Championship, also an LPGA Tour major. Had she been a professional, she would have earned more than $400,000 and placed 32nd on the LPGA money list.
" http://www.iseekgolf.com/news/8543

For Michelle:

(For her exemptions)
3-second place
1-third place
1-twelfth place
1-thirteenth place
1-DQ (would have been top 10)

She also placed 23rd in the US Women's Open, however that was because she qualifed due to her previous year's finishing position.

Or in summary 4 top fives, 8 top twenty-fives none lower than 23rd and one DQ. Equivalent earnings $663,178 or 18th on the LPGA Money List.

Since these are just "meaningless statistics", I leave you to make of them what you will.

One-Putt .... Isn't it a little obvious that Wie's physical size is a huge advantage over the other LPGA pros. She might only be 16 but she's a really big 16 or 26 or .... Remember, you can't teach height. Finally, kudos to David...

Sorry, I can't count or else I can't type one of the two. Make that (for Michelle) "7 top twenty-fives." not 8...a DQ is not a top 25.

JR, since when is height a big advantage in golf? I don't think there's a strong correlation between height and success in golf.

David, I think everyone would agree that Wie has to Win to prove herself when she starts playing full time. However, given her age and schedule, she should be given a lot of credit for the results she has had, especially last year on the LPGA.

Michelle Wie is 6 feet and Paula Creamer is 5'9", while Annika is 5'6". So basically Michelle has the same height advantage over Paula that Paula has over Annika.

Paul W... wouldn't you have to agree that her length comes from her "longer" swing????? You take 2 guys, 1-5'9" the other 6'3" and both have the same swing motion and physical characteristics, the taller guy will generate more power (and distance). The reason everyone is so excited over Wie is her apparent length off the tee ("the big wiezy, oooh.. she hits it just as far, if not farther than pros on the PGA tour...) and the LPGA courses are shorter, less rough, and so on... you mean to tell me that the primary reason that Wie drives the ball farther than, let's say, Mi Hyun Kim is her talent alone... both are very talented yet Wie is considerably larger than Ms Kim. Once again, you can't teach height, ask Manute Bol.

Mr. Coulthard... You're comparing Wie's height to Annika and Creamer. The height was brought up as an advantage she has over the "entire" field. However, as Annika has proven, you don't need the height advantage that Wie definitely has if you are dedicated, have the determination and will to WIN. Maybe Wie will become an all around champion once she gets that elusive 1st pro win. Until then, all of this is just an exercise in blogging....

JR, I think her height helps her but it is only one factor. There are other aspects of her swing that help and it is possible to hit it long without being tall (note your comments about Annika). I cretainly don't think it's a huge genetic advantage that would guarentee that she dominates the rest of the field.

Obviously, Wie owes her greater length to innate physical abilties and characteristics. Namely, size, strength and action-specific flexibility. And, to paraphrase JR, you can develop strength and flexibility to a point, but you can't teach height.

Pawl W.... I only mentioned her height as her "obvious" genetic advantage over the rest of the lpga tour. I never said it guarenteed anything. Sure, she has apparently put the time in and has a sound game. It's just a matter of more experience until she becomes a winner. Some folks think that should happen at her next tournament while others think it will be at one of the lower key LPGA events in a year or so. Either way, she will or should in the future.

Why don't we all let her atleast get to double digit WINS before everyone wants to say she is the best ever. I know that won't happen but it would be nice if it did.

Hows this.... since anonymous sources wants to proclaim Wie "best ever"... I propose something like the PGA has... "best not to win a major" which until a few years ago belonged to Phil Mickelson... how about... Michelle Wie is the best female to not have won on the LPGA tour....

Once she does get that first win, the she can concentrate on that major. Hopefully all will come within the next year or so if not sooner.

Actually it is arm length that produces extra velocity in the swing. If it were only height golfers would wear platforms, cowboy boots or spike heels.

While arm length is generally proportional to height this is not always true. The key factor is velocity of the club head at impact. This comes from a combination of arm length, arm strength, and the ability to coordinate the swing so that the muscles of the thighs and torso are also contributing to the swing.

Height helps, but the whole equation is so complex that height alone is often not the determing factor.

To Wit, I offer the current 2006 driving list leaders:

Bubba Watson - 6-3 - 324.9 yds
J.B. Holmes - 5-11 - 315.5 yds
Camilo Villegas - 5-9 - 311.8 yds
Charles Warren - 5-8 - 310.9 yds
Tag Ridings - 6-1 - 309.5 yds

Two six footers bracketing three 5 somethings all 309.5 yds or better.

JR, fair enough, I won't call her the best ever until she wins a lot, unless one of the wins is the Masters ;)

:-)

JR

When you're right. You're right. As long as they restrict Michelle Wie to 8 events per year it is a pretty safe that she will never have a double digit win season like the one Annika had last year. But some of us don't agree that 10 wins per season is a standard that should be used to judge a player who is only allowed to play in 8 events. I know that sounds terribly unreasonable of us--but that is just how it is.

Mr Coulthard.... I did not mean to imply that I thought those "double digit" wins should come in a single season. Only that once she (Wie) has recorded those wins during her career that then and only then should she be considered for entry into the debate of best ever female golfer. Right now, for fans to make that claim for her, they would have to compare her overall PRO results to those of Annika... and she (Wie) is many majors, let alone wins away from even opening that conversation.

Oh, but Wie does have a lot of potential. It will be fun to watch and once she's ready, those debates are going to be a blast.

This blog is fun... I'll have to participate more often... thanks for putting up with me.

"Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One-Putt .... Isn't it a little obvious that Wie's physical size is a huge advantage over the other LPGA pros. She might only be 16 but she's a really big 16 or 26 or .... Remember, you can't teach height. Finally, kudos to David..."

If height was a dominating factor, six foot one inch Catherine Cartwright should be an LPGA superstar. Her best finish before coming in runner up to another sixteen year old at the ANZ was one tie for seventh place in a five year LPGA career.

Michelle put together a better LPGA record when she was fourteen than Catherine ever has in her life.

Catherine did win the 2000 Womens' Amateur Public Links.

I think height is a relatively unimportant factor in the ladies' game--but it would be quite important to give a woman a chance to compete against the men. Annika only tried at the Colonial which was probably the one PGA course, with all its doglegs, where she had any chance.

One-Putt... I really liked the analogy of Wie and Mi Hyun Kim. Both are very talented but Wie strikes the ball much farther...

No, height (or length of swing) is not the ONLY reason for length off the tee and length off the tee does not necessary equate to wins but it is a huge advantage when you have wedge into the green rather than a mid, long iron, or fairway wood. Whether a player utilizes their advantages is a different story. But you knew that!

The FACT remains that Wie does not possess the body of a typical female adult golfer. She's taller, I would argue that she's also stronger due to her constant training.

Qualifying just about everything said about Wie with a preface to age no longer is to her "advantage" since she is a PRO. Turning pro has made her age irrelevent. And Yes, with her inherent length off the tee, the shorter course setups being played on the LPGA tour, the lighter rough than standard PGA setups, and so on, this gives her a huge advantage over players not so gifted. But, it's only an advantage (and history has proven, so far) that she has not parlayed into an LPGA victory as of yet.

But now I have a question for you, why would you choose an obscure example in an attempt to prove your point when you knew, or should have known, that the jest of the post did not relate to this???? If you want to do the example thing there is many to go through of "one shot wonders" on both the PGA and LPGA tours where they had one good season and were never heard from again.... It could be argued by someone playing devils advocated that Wie could fall into the latter category. But to me it's useless to take that position since Wie is only starting out and we won't have any idea about the enormity of her career until mayber 10 years from now.

So, if you want to do examples, we can, I just need to know how the game (ie.. the game of "examples") is played. But sometimes these "games" can take away from the good natured posts and turn this thing into something it was not meant to be. I prefer to keep things light, how about you????

JR said: She's taller, I would argue that she's also stronger due to her constant training.
---------------------------

JR, I'm pretty sure that constant training doesn't have anything to do with genetics. I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that claimed she had a genetic advantage.

Any of the girls who want to train hard can do so.

Johnny N..... your comment caught me off guard. When did I ever say that "constant training" has anything to do with genetics.... The genetic advantage I mentioned was height.... the constant training I mentioned has most likely helped her golf swing become more powerful with her long swing (thanks to her height/wing span). I am now beginning to see why some consider blogging more of a chore than anything else.....

Her height is an advantage but it is not the advantage that most people make it out to be.

There were excellent stats posted for the longest hitters on the pga, posted by John.

Bubba Watson - 6-3 - 324.9 yds
J.B. Holmes - 5-11 - 315.5 yds
Camilo Villegas - 5-9 - 311.8 yds
Charles Warren - 5-8 - 310.9 yds
Tag Ridings - 6-1 - 309.5 yds

If the tall guys like Tag Ridings at 6-1 can be matched by guys of 5-8 and 5-9, that suggests that girls who are 5 foot 7 or 5 foot 8 should equally be able to match Wie provided they put in the relevant training. If they can't match her, they should at least be able to get fairly close.

Guys of 5-8 averaging 310 yards shows me that, height is certainly not a necessity, even if it is an advantage.
These guys are outhitting Ernie Els who is 6 foot 3 and is considered a long hitter, so lets not overplay the height thing. It is an advantage but obviously it is possible to overcome it.
The other girls should be able to overcome it too against Wie, especially if they are 5-8 or 5-9 like Paula Creamer.
In 10 years there could be a whole heap of women hitting it about 285 yards in my opinion, because I think they are witnessing the benefits of training to Wie.

If anybody is showing the benefits of training, it is Annika. She was only one of the better players until she got serious about the gym work. Now she may be the best of all time.

Good point Shanks.

Does that mean that Annika's potential is pretty limited, strength wise, because she isn't really that long is she.

Also, her swing looks ever so lazy and relies alot of timing. Could she not just put a bit of welly into it. It just always seems to go exactly the same.
I know that means she is very consistant, but surely when she plays with Tiger so much, surely she knows the benefits of hitting it that bit further, even if you are less accurate, because you have a shorter next shot. Go on, give it some welly Annika please.

JR

Just because she is a pro, does not mean Michelle Wie's age is no longer a factor. As long as Paula Creamer's age is considered a factor because she is still a teenager, and as long as Paula Creamer's age was a factor when she became the youngest winner of a multi-round event at something like 18 yrs and 8 mos, and as long as that accomplishment is touted by Wie critics who consider Paula Creamer to be better than Michelle Wie--how can you say that Michelle Wie's age is not a factor? Also, how can you say that her age is not a factor when she is still attending high school, and she is barred from LPGA membership because of her age?

As far as double digit wins are concerned. Will you ask the Paula Creamer supporters to stop talking about how Paula Creamer is a proven winner until she has achieved double digit wins? Will you take Chris Baldwin to task for his claim follwing the Evian, that Paula Creamer is better than Michelle Wie--and always will be? Does the possiblity of being a one season wonder apply only to Michelle Wie and not to Paula Creamer?

As long as it is acceptable for Chris Baldwin to make his claim, I see nothing wrong with expressing the view that Michelle Wie is the greatest female golfer ever. Obviously this involves making projections into the future--but if projections are acceptable for Wie critics to make, why are they not acceptable for Wie supporters.

Actually, Annika is one of the longest hitters on the LPGA Tour. I would guess that she is already maxed out, distance-wise.

Actually, height cannot be "overcome" really. The shorter players who hit the ball as long as much taller ones simply possess certain qualities that the latter don't. However, if they were taller, they'd hit the ball even farther. It's really not hard to understand.

Norman wrote - "A 2nd place in an LPGA major is a far greater achievement than a win at the ANZ Australian Masters."
Norman-
Dont't spin and/or discount 16 year old Amy Yang's victory. She won! She didn't finish second. She is an amateur. Michelle Wie never won any professional event as an amateur and never will now.

You Wie Fanatics are hilarious. There are 13 criteria to qualify into the Women's Open and Michelle Wie to date meets none of them for 2006. Fay is being very charitible by hinting he will consider her virtual standing on the '06 money list. Two starts prior to Open Qualifying hardly gives her a lock on a top 35 standing - virtually speaking.

She has failed to play her way into the '06 Open - anybody else would have to qualify. If she's all that, it should be a snap. Inconvenient? Gee, is it inconvenient for the others too.

Or she could go out and win one of her two starts to get in. That might actually prove something. Everything else is nothing but speculation.

For JR you stated the point I was trying to make by using Catherine Cartwright as an example. The only difference between Amy and Michelle compared to other players their age or in most cases older, is their work ethic.

It takes a special girl to go out after school everyday and practice till dark. They also play golf all weekend long, week after week, month after month and year after year. Both these gals do this and yet maintain excellent grades in school at the same time. That is what makes them stand out from the rest, not their height. They were not genetically created to play golf, they were developed into good golfers by sacrificing their youth.

For Shanks, you're absolutely "right on" using Annika as an example. That is why Michelle hired a Hockey Coach (I hope she keeps her teeth) to work on her upper body strength. Annika is one of Michelle's golf idols and she knows what happened after Annika hit the gym.

The only thing lacking in Michelle's game is "Killer Instinct", a trait she needs to develop to be a winner. Maybe Morgan will help Michelle find this in herself by motivating her to win an event soon.

Michelle has been relying on Sponsor's exemptions for quite some time now. Maybe it is time for Michelle to step up to the first tee at Turtle Bay this coming Monday and earn her place in the field for the SBS.

At golf.com there is an interesting article written following last year's Samsung. Annika gets the hardware, Wie gets the hype. This was certainly not written by a Wie Warrior. But just look at what was said about Annika. "...her incomparable success over the last five years--seven majors, 41 victories, nearly $12 million in earnings. And perhaps the most impressive statistic of all is finishing in the top three 63 percent of the time." If Anika's finishing in the top three 63% of the time(it should have been 64%) is considered perhaps her most impressive statistic over the course of her last five years, then perhaps we should not sneer at a 15 year old amateur who was able to finish in the top three 50% of the time from the 2004 Samsung to the 2005 Weetabix British Open.

The criteria for exemptions into the US Women's Open are blatantly biased in favor of LPGA members. Please tell me why Michelle Wie's performance last year does not deserve an exemption, but Jill McGill's does. Jill McGill has never won in 261 LPGA starts including 254 as a member of the LPGA. She finished 35th on last years money list with $364,340 in 25 events--less than 60% of what Wie would have earned in just 8 events had she been a pro. In the 3 majors other than the US Open she finished well below Wie with a T30 in the Kraft a T54 in the LPGA Championship and a T64 in the Weetabix. The only reason she did not finish below Wie in the US Open was the fact that she did not finish the US Open. She missed the cut, one of 8 cuts she missed last year. Will someone please explain why the criteria for qualification for the Open are such that Jill McGill gets an exemption and Michelle Wie does not? The last time Michelle Wie got a special exemption it was designed to correct for such a perceived flaw in the criteria. Can we all not admit there is something wrong with criteria which would give an exemption to Jill McGill while denying one to Michelle Wie based upon their 2005 performance on the LPGA?

Paula Creamer has been mentioned in this blog.

I actually think Paula Creamer is a better player than Michelle Wie. Anybody with me on this one?