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63 comments

Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
If it doesn't kill you, sometimes it makes you stronger. If you are Curtis Strange to her Tiger, then she will do just fine. As far as "AFTER the pressure was off, when she and everybody else knew she had no chance of making the cut..." goes, a winner knows that "no chance" never comes.
01/14/06 @ 20:03
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Tim
We all witnessed another amazing showing by MW.
I am puzzled why there are still people who doubt the ability of this young girl.
A 16 year old school girl playing golf part time, hasn’t played a tournament for 2 months and still has the confidence to play against seasoned professionals on the toughest tour in the world.
People keep saying she can’t handle the pressure, so what is the excuse of the men that she is matching or beating. Guys like Mike Wier, Jason Gore, Sean O’hair, Craig Stadler, 5 shots ahead of Todd Hamilton. Some of these guys are Major winners. These guys have no pressure. They aren’t been hounded by the press, followed around the course by thousands of people, having their game dissected to see why they have failed.
If MW was playing every week she would be making cuts on a regular basis on the PGA.
Her driving average in round 2 was 300 yards. Approx 10 yards more than Jim Furyk and 10 yards less than Chad Campbell who are the current leaders of the competition.
If she doesn’t belong on the PGA she is certainly not alone.
I believe people don’t want admit she belongs because they think it shows a lack of depth on the PGA.
Alan M

01/14/06 @ 20:15
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Tim, are you joining Baldwin for the most pathetic blogger of all time?
I think it's you who are delusional. Pressure or no pressure, 68 is 68!!!!

One thing is for sure, you will never be anything but hater regardless of what Michelle did, do or will do.

YOu and Baldwin will always come up with some reason to bash her and that's for sure.

Not that I give a S*** what you think.

01/14/06 @ 20:21
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Alan,

You're insane if you don't realize that there was infinitely more pressure the first day. This was her grand stage, and that was the long-awaited moment.

After she blew it the first day, however, no one was talking about her making the cut and she didn't have to worry about embarrassing herself.

A long time ago Wie said in an interview that her father was a choker. Well, it just may run in the family.
01/14/06 @ 21:04
Comment from: Jack Weldon [Visitor]
Friday, Jan. 13, 2006

Michelle Wie... -2
Vijay Singh.... -1
01/15/06 @ 02:17
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
June -- do you actually read these blogs, or do you start automatically yelling and screaming when you first sense that the blogger might not agree with you?

You see, June, I'm actually a big fan of Michelle Wie. I want her to do well and I believe she will eventually. It's possible to be a fan and still maintain a critical eye. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Is there something troubling you? It seems to me you used to be much more calm and reasonable, and compassionate. I used to be attracted to your responses, but now it seems you've become a little too bitter. Is it from reading Chris Baldwin? What's the deal?
01/15/06 @ 05:55
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Under Par said:
After she blew it the first day, however, no one was talking about her making the cut and she didn't have to worry about embarrassing herself.
***************************

Under Par,
Think about what you are saying. I can tell you that after the first round, I was worried about her embarrassing herself. I was worried that she may go out and hit a similar score and finish in last position. That would have been devastating on her confidence.

That would have given plenty of fuel to those guys who critisise her and claim that she doesn't belong on the pga tour.

It would have been very difficult for me to find any positives out of her experience, and it would have been very difficult for her to justify her continuing appearances in pga events to the media. So hopefully you understand that there was massive pressure on her.

Suddenly before the round began I got a real positive vibe for some reason, and backed her to shoot 70 or better.

For once, my prediction actually was right, and despite hitting 3 early bogies in a row, and looking like a sure bet for last position, she pulled her round together and played some amazing golf.

For anyone who doesn't believe she belongs on the pga due to physical reasons, you should take a look at Shanks latest blog, where I have posted some really interesting stats that show just how good her approach play was.

On Tim McDonald's viewpoint that maybe she isn't mentally ready, he could be right about that, time will tell.
On the physical side, she is shown she is ready, that is not disputable, although plenty of people here still try to dispute it.

As regards the mental side, I think she is going about it the right way. Building experience is what it is all about.
Tiger missed his first 7 cuts, and most of those by wide margins. That did not shatter his confidence. In fact he came back a better player.
01/15/06 @ 09:13
Comment from: Mary [Visitor]
Tim, Chris, Under Par:
You've made up your minds about Michelle Wie, and no one will ever be able to change them.
Let me see:
If she plays well, so what? "Any blind pig can find an acorn." or "Anyone can play well when the pressure's off."
Well, not really. Most sports psychologists will tell you that pressure is what brings out the best in a lot of athletes - everyone is different.
For example, my husband and I are national champion athletes (in skydiving, by the way, and he is also a 4-time world champion). We both perform better when everyone is watching, when the pressure is on. We both are complete hackers on the golf course, but hey, it's all good....

If she plays poorly (but still, let me remind you, not at the very bottom of the scoreboard), that just shows she's out of her league.

Basically, she can't win with you guys. It's a circular argument, that will put you in the same place you started.

People who are able to learn are so much more interesting than those who keep reiterating the same old crap.

So, I am no longer reading Tim's or Chris's blogs. And have Under Par's comments blocked.
If all this is a publicity stunt to drive traffic, you have failed in at least this instance...
Seeya....

01/15/06 @ 09:50
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Anyone who wants to read my final remarks on this subject can check Baldwin's blog on Michelle. It seems to me like Mary's post confirms my contention about the Wie-nuts. One must accept their new religion in its entirety or be condemned as an infidel. So long, Alex
01/15/06 @ 10:19
Comment from: Shanks [Member] Email
Yep, no doubt that the pressure got to her again.
01/15/06 @ 11:19
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
The bad part of Wie's Thursday round was in the first 9 she played. If you divide up her 2 days play in to 9 hole segments, she shot +7, +2, E, -2. In other words, she started off really badly in the first 9 and righted the ship after that. To argue that she only plays well when there is no pressure, you would have to believe that she felt she had no hope after the first 9 and after that felt less pressure and played better. That doesn't seem credible to me, she still had a chance after the first 9.

My view is it was just nerves compounded by the weather and the fact that she hasn't played much tournament play lately. She had only played 6 rounds of tounament play since the British Open in July.
01/15/06 @ 11:20
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Paul W

I could believe that after her first 9 on Thursday, she no longer felt she had any realistic chance to make the cut, and shifted her focus to one of simply playing the best she could for the rest of the tournament. It is ridiculous, however, to think that she felt no pressure to play well. That would be like saying a Major League manager no longer has any pressure to win once his team is out of the pennant race because of a terrible start to the season.

After her first 9, Michelle had a great deal of pressure on her to avoid embarassing herself for the tournament--and she did well enough to avoid that embarassment.

Your point about only 6 competitive rounds in 6 months is well taken. She has obviously improved her game, but she wasn't tournament sharp. I wonder if the Q School guys did so well because they just went through the 6 round Q-School last month.

01/15/06 @ 12:29
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Hey, Mary, Mary quite contrary, the next time you go skydiving, forget about pulling the rip cord.
01/15/06 @ 12:37
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
People like to move the bar as regards the pressure situation.

According to some people:
- If she plays badly, coming to the end of an lpga tournament, it is pressure because she might have won if she played well.
- If she plays badly on the 2nd day of a womens tournament, it is due to pressure, because she felt too much pressure to put herself in a good position.
- If she plays badly at the end of the 2nd round of a pga tournament, it is due to pressure, because she is scared of the cut line.
- If she plays badly at the start of a mens tournament, it is due to pressure because she was too scared of putting herself in a position to make the cut.

For those of you who don't play much gold, sometimes people play bad. That just happens. It can happen at the beginning or the end or the middle of the tournament. If you want to analyse it, you can always come up with an excuse as to how it could possibly be pressure related.

The truth is, that sometimes it just happens.
- In the case of the Casio Open, I would put that down to pressure.
- In the case of the John Deere, I would put that down partly to pressure, but also too much aggression and immaturity in shot selection.
- For the US Women's Open, I would put it down to a bad round that just happened from the start, and attempts made to salvaging the round, by being aggressive just compounded the problem. It was a difficult course and a difficult day and many other players had poor rounds.
- For her other 2nd place lpga finishes, she didn't lose those tournaments, they were won by other players.

My main point is, that for any player in any tournament, who either misses the cut, or doesn't win, you could try to imply that it is nervousness related. However sometimes, stuff just happens, and you have to accept it. Some of Wie's missed cuts were pressure related in my opinion, but in my opinion, those situations will be overcome by experience.
01/15/06 @ 12:42
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
Good analysis Norman.

Annika is a winner on tour because she avoids the double bogey and stays in the match to the end. She won 10 out of 20 LPGA tournaments she entered by leading or hanging around at the top of the leader board. When she doesn’t have her “A” game sometimes the field will come back to her, if she just avoids mistakes. Annika is the master of being in the hunt until the end.

When I look at Michelle’s stats she will nearly always hit more GIR/s when her fairways hit are less during a round and she will post a lower score. The times she plays a conservative round trying to make a cut or win a tournament her GIR goes down and fairways hit goes thru the roof. An example would be the Casio where she hit 86 percent of the fairways on the second round.

She should take a lesson from her hero the Tiger. He won 6 PGA tournaments including two majors and hung around the top of the leader board in most tournaments during 2005 by hitting 55 percent of his fairways. Tiger swings for the fences every time he tees it up.
01/15/06 @ 14:03
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
Asia Guy, so she missed the Casio by being too conservative and the Deere by being too agressive. I guess that's why golf is so fun!

It does seem from some of her comments after the Sony this year that she learned she has to be better at getting out of trouble that way she can air out her drives more.
01/15/06 @ 14:24
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]

"Asia Guy, so she missed the Casio by being too conservative and the Deere by being too agressive. I guess that's why golf is so fun!"

Sorry Paul the same thing happened to her at the John Deere. She backed off with her driver for the second round and scored higher.

When she swings hard with more distance and misses more fairways, her GIR and scoring is better. Consistently better.

Each time she tries to protect what she has on the leaderboard her scores go up. Case in point the 2005 U.S. Womens Open where she was the third round leader. She backed off her driving that resulted in a miserable fourth round for her.



01/16/06 @ 05:53
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Hey Jack.... Monday morning: Singh.... -9 Wie..... Still +7
01/16/06 @ 07:25
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
John D
What did VJ do when he was 16??
Alan M
01/16/06 @ 11:11
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Stayed in school and learned that he would not be a factor until after he graduated. Had fun with other kids his own age. Took the time to grow up.
01/16/06 @ 12:59
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
I've been on vacation for three weeks so I'm reading all the Wie post mortems for the first time. Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys on the Wie bandwagon really believe she will ever be able to compete with Singh or the rest of the touring pros? What about all the new guys coming up like Bubba who was bombing away in Hawaii or Holmes or the other guys from the q school? Or all the good young golfers from Australia and Europe, and China, Japan and Korea? I have had a lot of experience coaching kids of both sexes in sports. I can say right now that she is a good kid with lots of talent FOR A GIRL but she will never golf successfully against the big boys. She doesn't have the hand, arm and wrist strength and there is no way for her to get it. When girls shoot up like that during and right after puberty they peak soon after. Very seldom does their strength increase much unless by illegal steroids or HGH. No matter how much weight training a girl does her muscularity will only increase so much. Any parent with daughters kows these things. Weight training helps most in endurance. The guys are too big too strong have more endurance and there are more of them and there always will be. She can be an excellent golfer on the women's tour.
01/16/06 @ 13:30
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
Good points John,

There is a difference of opinion on some statements though. I don't think any Wie fans believe she will finish at the top of the leaderboard in any PGA tournaments. But the talent is there for her to end up in the top 125 on PGA the tour if she plays regularly in the future. She may take a few more years to get there, but she will.

For 2005 the PGA had 77 players who made a $1,000,000 or more on the tour. The LPGA only had 6 players above that mark. Each time she adds a paycheck to her account she would be building a legacy.

If (a big if) she qualifies to hold a PGA card she would be crazy not to take the opportunity and then play in the field at only the major championships on the LPGA tour.

It all depends on how you would define the "best" female golfer of all time. If that would be her ultimate goal at all.
01/16/06 @ 14:12
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
A-G, I don't know if some of these guys are serious or not but I read several who said MW would eventually win on the big tour. I can't see any way she is ever going to get a card. I was avolunteer coach on my local HS track team for many years. I never ran time trials between the sexes because it would have demoralized the girls. We did train together. I'm afraid MW will become discouraged by losing badly to grown men. She doesn't appear to be affected by it yet but she is a girl and they are far more sensitive than boys. I know. I have daughters, granddaughters, great-granddaughters, daughters-in-law, nieces and a wife. You have to be careful not to break the spirit if a girl like MW. I coached a lot of girls who were very good until their senior year when they became more of a woman and seemed to lose focus.
01/16/06 @ 14:57
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Z is back.

John, you discussed Michelle's hand, arm and wrist strength and claimed that she didn't have and couldn't get the desired strength.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because you have been away for some time, but in the 2nd round Michelle showed that she already has those strengths.

Let's break the physical side of golf into 1. Driving and 2. spin.

1. Driving:
Michelle outdrove many of the successful tour pros. She outdrove Furyk in both rounds, and hopefully you will agree that he is very successful. For the first time her driving averaged 300 yards in a round.

Earlier, I had been a little annoyed, by some commentators saying that she could bom it 300 yards, because it gave an inaccuate picture, because she would only hit the odd one this length. 300 yards average is still an exageration, but her length has improved, and the fact that she outdrove Jim Furyk on both days gives me great hope.

2. SPIN for approach shots.
Obviously strenght is needed to generate the necessary spin. Otherwise she could hit an accurate shot to the green and it would just end up running off the other end of the green.
This indeed was a worrysome aspect and one wondered if she would be able to get the strength.

In her 2nd round of the Sony, she showed that she already has that strength required. From various distances from the green, she nailed iron and wedge shots. This wasn't a fluke, these shots required necessary spin, and she was able to produce it. That proved to me that she has the necessary strength already.

Here are her approach shot stats versus Jim Furyk, one of the most accurate players in golf:

175 to 200 yards: Wie 11 feet. Furyk 26 feet.
150 to 175 yards: Wie 11 feet. Furyk 31 feet.
125 to 150 yards: Wie 4 feet. Furyk 17 feet.
under 125 yards: Wie 13 feet. Furyk 14 feet.
01/16/06 @ 17:00
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
You can put out all the spreadsheets you want but the fact will remain that Mw can't compete with the big guys. She would have made a cut and placed fairly high if that were the case. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Your stats making MW out to be a superior iron player than Jim Furyk are a joke. Jim is a former US Open champ and a multiple winner on the big tour. You want people to believe that of all the fields of human endeavor the only one that women can compete with men in is Golf. Of all the women who play golf the only one who has ever been or will ever be able to compete with men is Michelle Wie. I refuse to believe such an outrageous thing and I can't see how any one with common sense can believe it. Just looking at the difference in the physical builds of the men as opposed to a lanky girl like MW should tell a reasonable person the obvious. Norman you need a few lessons in Biology and Physiology.
01/16/06 @ 18:05
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
I've been reading your postings Norman and there must be two hundred of them. I can't believe you're serious and neither are your pro-Wie pals. You just can't be as dense as you are pretending to be. Just in this thread you claim that MW outdrove Jim Furyk in the two rounds she played. Not only that her iron play was far better than Jim's. So how do we explain that little matter that JF took thirteen less strokes for the two rounds than did MW? It can't be her putting which was described as brilliant in some other posts. If as you say she already has the strength the driving ability, the great iron play and marvelous putting what's the holdup? I'm going to ask you one time since you're acting serious about MW winning sometime in the future on the big tour, WHEN in your opinion is it going to happen? What six month period? What year? Please no statistics or spreadsheets. Just a simple answer. Since she has all the shots and the mental toughness she should be taking down that big check soon. How about her first win on the LPGA tour? When will that happen? If I don't get something like a definite answer I will know you are a troll stirring up a hive.
01/16/06 @ 19:19
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
John D
VJ never had fun.
Welcome back John Z, hope you had a good holiday. It obviously didn't change your views.
Granted MW will never win a PGA event but she will compete. She won't get demoralised finishing in 40 or 50th positions like you suggest. There are plenty of guys out there doing that.
And yes she is the only female capable of competing against the men at the moment. Who knows what might happen in the future.
Seven birdies in a round on the PGA is impressive.
Alan M
01/16/06 @ 19:24
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Would you say that seven over par in two rounds is also impressive? No one knows what will happen in the future. Until then we'll have to rely on what happened in the past and what's happening in the present.How is MW going to finish in 40th or 50th place in a big tour event when she can't make a cut? How is she going to get a card? Come on guys, explain these things to us ignorant peasants. Or are you all trolls hitting at a hornet's nest with a bat?
01/16/06 @ 21:12
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Yeah, but seven birds just didn't offset 4 boggies and three doubles, now did they. Didn't make the cut again - LOSER.
01/16/06 @ 21:25
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
She has 150 chances to get a PGA card JZ. 125 full privilege cards to the top 125 on the money list. Or one of the 25 conditional PGA cards doled out to the next 25. The conditional players can go directly to the final round of Q school if they want to improve their status on the tour and join the 125 as full members of the tour.

It is a long shot that Michelle could qualify this way, but it is about the only way she could get a card. I don’t see her taking the long route thru Q school and don’t believe she would make the cut at this point. Those guys have some serious game.

Experience is a valuable teacher you must agree JZ and every time she tees it up with the men she gets to watch some serious golf up-close and personal. I was just watching an old LPGA match on The Golf Channel and they were playing a par 3 that was only 141 yards to the pin. The gals were hitting five and six irons towards the pin. Michelle would be in between clubs on the hole and would have to take something off a seven iron for the distance or a full eight an inch back in her stance. That is a huge difference.

Next time Michelle plays a PGA event watch what she does while waiting to play or before moving forward after playing her ball. She is attending school JZ by intently watching every shot struck by the men she is playing with. She is not looking around at the gallery or talking much with her caddy, she is fully focused on learning from the best.
01/17/06 @ 04:45
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Q- School would be easy for anyone capable of going the Tiger route. But it is quite possible that Wie has her eyes mainly on the LPGA, and never plans to play more than 7 PGA events per year.
01/17/06 @ 07:34
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
All right, guys, A-G and alan, let's say for the sake of argument that by some means however far fetched MW gets a PGA tour card. Remember, in that first year she would have no exemptions, except perhaps a few from sponsors. She would have to perform well to retain her card. Let's go a little further and say that this scene plays out in, say, three years from now. MW will then be 19 and as mature as she will ever be as far as sport goes. She plays in thirty events on the PGA tour and as alan says finishes 40th or 50th in each one. Do you know what she will earn at that rate? $600K, far from 125 on the money list and a lost card and a trip to q school. That is assuming she makes the cut each time. If you guys are serious and you actually believe that MW can and will sometime in the , future secure and retain a PGA tour card, I'd like to see if you're interested in a piece of real estate I have for sale. It was built in 1889 but has been well maintained and has much historical significance. It's a suspension bridge connecting lower Manhattan with Brooklyn.
01/17/06 @ 09:32
Comment from: June [Visitor]
See, John Z, this is what is wrong with Wie-haters.

You use 19-years old Wie for your example!!!

Answer this first.

How many 19-years old boy or man get his tour card so far?

How many of those were successful to keep their card when he was 19 years old?

See, how far fetched your argument was? I don't think any reasonable Wie-fans would say she will make it to PGA by 19 years old days? More like in the next 10 years or so?

I don't know who is more delusional in this conversations? Wie-fanatics? Or Wie-haters?
01/17/06 @ 11:01
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Oh no, June! Not ten more years of Wie Hype! I don't think I can take it!
01/17/06 @ 11:39
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
****************************
John Z said:
Just in this thread you claim that MW outdrove Jim Furyk in the two rounds she played. Not only that her iron play was far better than Jim's. So how do we explain that little matter that JF took thirteen less strokes for the two rounds than did MW?
****************************

John, she did outdrive Jim Furyk on both days of the Sony Open. That may be difficult for you to accept but I can point you towards the stats if you like.

Round 1:
Wie: 272 yards.
Furyk: 257 yards.

Round 2:
Wie: 300 yards.
Furyk: 291 yards.

These are OFFICIAL pga tour stats.
Sorry if you don't believe the pga. Perhaps they are making them up!

As regards the approach shots, I said that her approach play was far better than Jim's on the 2nd day. I also stated that it was much worse on the 1st day.
You obviously have difficulty understanding spreadsheets, but try to understand this: on the 2nd day, when Michelle hit her iron shots from any distance, the ball landed and stopped much closer to the hole, on average than Jim Furyk ball did. That is another fact, but again maybe the pga are just making it up!

So how did she finish so far behind Jim Furyk?
- lack of experience.
- bad play in round 1, plain and simple, she wasn't swinging well wasn't putting well, and basically played a poor round of golf by her standards.
- On the 2nd day, she made 4 more birdies than Jim did, but Michelle leaked 5 bogies, 3 of these were very avoidable. That is just her youth and lack of experience.



*******************************
John Z said:
I'm going to ask you one time since you're acting serious about MW winning sometime in the future on the big tour, WHEN in your opinion is it going to happen? What six month period? What year? Please no statistics or spreadsheets. Just a simple answer. Since she has all the shots and the mental toughness she should be taking down that big check soon. How about her first win on the LPGA tour? When will that happen? If I don't get something like a definite answer I will know you are a troll stirring up a hive.
***********************************

When will she win on the pga tour?
I certainly don't think she will win on the pga tour in the next 5 years. I think she will win before she is 30. If you want the 6 month period, I will say from when she is 27.5 years to 28 years old.

On the lpga, I predict she will win before she is 18, and I also predict that she will win this year, unless her best week coincides with Annika's best weeks.
01/17/06 @ 15:31
Comment from: jackson [Visitor]
Holy shit Norman are you kidding me. Why did she finish so far behind Jim Furyk? How about you step away from the crackpipe and go with the easy answer, because she isn't half the golfer he is and there is no proof or reason to believe she ever will be. I have never in my life seen somebody hype a player who missed the cut so much as you. On these blogs you have compared Michelle wie to Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk, Fred Funk, and numerous other world class PGA tour players, who will you compare her to when she actually does something, like make a cut, win a tournament or piece together two decent rounds in a row. Now you have the gall to not only claim that she will win a PGA tournament, but you are predicting when. You are in need of help. All your precious stats and theories are bullshit and you sir are a fucking dipshit.
01/17/06 @ 16:59
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Gee Norman, I thought you'd say it would be during my lifetime. Your prediction is about twelve years from now. What are you using, the tarot cards or the crystal ball?
01/17/06 @ 17:06
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Are people really this dense? Who says Michelle is a better player than Furyk now? And who can say for sure she won't be as good as them one day?

Why can't some of you believe what tour pro said about Michelle's game? They knew how good or bad they were when they were 16 after all. And they all said Michelle is way better player than themselves at that age. And didn't it mean anything to you guys?

I will go even further. IF she is way better than them at 16, why cant' she be as good as them or even better than them in the future?

Oh, I got it. BECAUSE SHE IS A GIRL. Pure BS if you ask me.
01/17/06 @ 17:42
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
June,

Yes, you're starting to get it. Girls will always have less potential than corresponding guys; if you can't understand that, then you've been brainwashed with feminist nonsense.

Now, I want to make something clear. As I have said before, I don't rule out the possibility that Wie may be able to one day qualify for the PGA Tour. The gap between the sexes in golf is narrow enough -- owing to the fact that golf doesn't encompass that many facets of physicality -- that such isn't inconceivable. I only take issue with the nonsense some people spew, nonsense that is the result of hype. For instance, casting Wie as the next Woods and talking as if she "belongs" on the tour at present. Right now she is "No-wins Wie-wie," and there's no reason to portray her as a demigod-like golfer for the ages.
01/17/06 @ 18:10
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Under par, who on this board said Michelle belong to PGA NOW?

Certainly some, including me, think that she is good enough NOW to try to make the cut.

See the difference?

It's the different question if you ask her competing against the men to make a history has any merit.

01/17/06 @ 19:45
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Under Par makes some decent points.

He recognises that golf isn't all about physical endevour. If it was, then I would say that women would have no chance.

Having played golf for a number of years I recognise exactly what it is about and exactly what it takes to be able to play the game. I am as strong as practically any professional player out there, and it is seldom that I come near using my potential strength.

Even in the deep rough, I could put my strength behind the ball, but there is no sure way of guaranteeing just how the ball will come out in those situations.

So we should all be able to agree, that in strength women cannot compete with men, but if there is a sport where it is not an overriding massive advantage, then it is possible. For anyone who knows anything about golf, it should be quite evident that Wie posesses the physcial attributes required.
01/17/06 @ 19:45
Comment from: June [Visitor]
As for hyping Wie as "next Tiger", she sure is the most exciting prospect since Tiger. No doubt about that. Ans she has all the potential to become "next Tiger on LPGA". This is what i though they meant when they say "next Tiger". Certainly they wouldn't say Wie will dominate PGA like Tiger would. If anybody claim, I would also call him crazy.
01/17/06 @ 19:48
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Jackson,
I will respond to your post, but this is the last post of yours that I will respond to.
I have engaged with plenty of people on these board in debate but I don't bother with thugs.

So for the only time I will refute your points:

- Who ever said that she was as good as Jim Furyk? You are the first to have stated this.
I was simply asked a question as to why she shot a worse round than him. I explained in golfing terms, why her round was worse than his ie. what shots were weaker in her play.
It is quite obvious that you know very little about golf, and arn't capable of grasping that.

- As regards comparing her to other people. I compared her to Fred Funk only in terms of driving. This was because some people claimed that she had not got the driving distance required. I simply showed how his driving isn't that long, but he does pretty well.

- Next Tiger Woods, nobody compared her to Tiger Woods. She was simply compared to him, when he was her age. This was done because people were complaining of her getting exemptions. Tiger also got exemptions at a young age, and Michelle has done much better with her exemptions than he did.
- Next Jim Furyk. Some people complained that Michelle had not got the necessary strength to stop the ball near the hole. They said that when she landed the ball close to the hole that it would bounce off the green, because she hadn't the necessary strength to spin the ball enough. By comparing her approach stats to one of the most accurate players on tour, Jim Furyk, I was merely showing that she indeed did have the strength required.

So aspects of her game have been referred to the top pros in order to prove other people points wrong.

Nobody here has actually said that she is better than Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk or any other top pga player.
01/17/06 @ 19:59
Comment from: John [Visitor]
Comment from: Jack Weldon [Visitor]
Friday, Jan. 13, 2006

Michelle Wie... -2
Vijay Singh.... -1

Two Day Total

Michelle Wie...+7
Vijay Singh...Even

Which one made the cut?
01/18/06 @ 03:33
Comment from: Johnny N. [Visitor]
John, Vijay was the one that made the cut. Vijay is a much better player than Michelle Wie. I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

All other people were pointing out is that she has the talent to play the kind of golf that achieves things in pga tournaments.
01/18/06 @ 09:32
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
5 years ago who would have thought a 15 year old girl could compete in a PGA event, and shoot a round under par. Probably no one.
Now people are seriously doubting that Wie could ever compete on the PGA on a regular basis. Why
Alan M
ps Except Under Par. Nice one
01/18/06 @ 12:01
Comment from: Dick [Visitor]
Alan your posts are all over the place. Here you sound as if you support MW. But on Rebel's Photo Contest post you sound as if you don't. What gives?
01/18/06 @ 12:53
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Dick
That was an impostor.
I am definitely a Wie fan. This girl has the potential to be the biggest name in golf past and present.
The real Alan M
01/18/06 @ 15:48
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
No,that guy is the impostor. I go both ways.

The real Alan M
01/18/06 @ 18:22
Comment from: JON [Visitor]
SO WHAT?

Her 68 was the 11th best score of the 123 men who competed that day ....
01/20/06 @ 07:48
Comment from: jackson [Visitor]
Her first round 79 made her second round meaningless. She had no pressure to make the cut, therefore giving her a free run at the course. The 68 was a nice score, but one which she shot two years ago and one which ultimately moved her from 141st to 117th, so as Tim said, So What.
01/20/06 @ 09:37
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
If Michelle Wie's 68 in the 2nd round didn't matter, why didn't Tim write a blog about a round that did matter? If her 79 was because there was pressure, and her 68 is just what we can expect from her if she doesn't feel pressure--then Tim seems to be saying she has the physical game to compete on the PGA, but only needs to get over her jitters. But, of course, what Tim is really saying is this approach has worked for Chris--so I am going to try it too.
01/20/06 @ 13:22
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jim -- you got it right the first time. Wie definitely has the physical game to compete on almost any level, though she will never be a dominant force on the PGA Tour, obviously.

I'm saying that her untraditional route to stardom has deprived her of the opportunity to play under pressure, which one must do to win or even come close at the level she's trying to compete in now.

If she had had an arduous amateur career, followed by dealing with the pressures of the LPGA, I don't think she would have sky-rocketed to a 79 first round at Sony.

I understand she can't compete on the LPGA regularly, but by putting herself in such an intense, pressure-packed situation -- trying to make a PGA Tour cut, she has nothing to compare it with.

01/20/06 @ 14:43
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
Tim, if Michelle had, as you suggest, followed an arduous amateur career, she wouldn't have even played at the Sony Open this year, so I don't get your point.

Lots of players with great amateur careers have had high rounds. There's no basis to assume a different path would have made Wie immune from any bad rounds. Every time she does well you assume it's because she has great physical talents and every time she does badly you assume it's because she took the "wrong" path. You may be right, but I don't see any strong evidence for it.
01/20/06 @ 15:09
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
I would think compelling evidence is the 79 she shot at Sony, a day she admitted she had difficulty breathing.

01/20/06 @ 15:16
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
I don't think you can make such a sweeping judgement based on one bad round.
01/20/06 @ 15:29
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Tim McDonald said:
I would think compelling evidence is the 79 she shot at Sony, a day she admitted she had difficulty breathing.
******************************

That was Michelle's 4th pga attempt.

At Tiger's 5th attempt, he hit 80 in his first round. Yet he had an amateur background, which you claim would have stood Wie in better stead for her round.
It didn't stand Tiger much good in his round of 80.
Furthermore, in his 2nd round, Tiger backed his 80 up with a 78, whereas Michelle backed her 79 up with a 68.

So, if Tiger's amateur success didn't stop him hitting an 80 in his fifth attempt, why would amateur success have made Wie shoot better than 79? Tricky isn't it?
01/20/06 @ 18:34
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
TIM


BJ has said Michelle is skipping the SBS Open because he wants some tournaments left for the summer. He has said he would like Michelle to play in maybe two more than the current limit of 8. This sounds like a strong LPGA focus for Michelle--which at this point in her career might be a reasonable substitute for the arduous amateur events other golfers may have played. It looks like the Wie's do not want Michelle to play in very many PGA events at this point. We will see how she does on the LPGA this year--and she will play far more rounds on the LPGA than on the PGA.
01/20/06 @ 20:13
Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Why are people still going on about Wie not playing amateur golf until she retires. For goodness sake, she took a different path, end of story.
Nobody will ever know if it was the best path for her career. Drop it
Alan M
01/20/06 @ 20:26
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Because of the Wie-nie Wie-ners, like you, who keep mistaking a Loser as a winnwer.


LOSER = No Win Wie

01/21/06 @ 08:45
Comment from: Asia_Guy [Visitor]
"Comment from: alan [Visitor]
Why are people still going on about Wie not playing amateur golf until she retires. For goodness sake, she took a different path, end of story.
Nobody will ever know if it was the best path for her career. Drop it
Alan M"

Michelle belongs on the LPGA Tour with her productivity during the few LPGA events she entered, where she averaged $96,000 (if she had taken the money) in earnings per event.

Paula Creamer who ended up second on the LPGA money list averaged $56,000 per event entered.

Imagine if she had kept up this pace of productivity while playing in 25 regular events on the LPGA tour? Annika likely would have finished second on the money list with Paula finishing a distant third. Michelle might have accomplished this without ever winning an event in 2005.

Hey that is good enough for me and far more than I would expect from any fifteen year old kid.

No wonder they won't let her join the LPGA tour until she is eighteen.
01/21/06 @ 14:02
Comment from: AllBiz [Visitor]
Hey, The Big Wiesy is making $10M a year alone on endorsements.....How many other 16 year olds can say that?

Someone's laughing all the way to the bank.....
01/26/06 @ 04:23
Comment from: HipHopGolf [Visitor]
If she was white and looked like jessica simpson, i think you racists would sing another tune(free bird?). She can beat all u haters! Period! Can wait till she beats anakin skywalker's butt on a regular basis. Losers LOL
01/28/06 @ 16:22

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