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Comment from: William K. Wolfrum [Member] Email
Tiger's going through a stage similar to Mike Tyson in the mid-80s. His opponents have seemingly accepted they'll lose, and are folding like tents when faced with him.

Though, I have a strong hunch things will work out a little better for Tiger than they ended up for Iron Mike.

01/30/06 @ 08:02
Comment from: Steve [Visitor]
Surpass Jack Nicklaus in what? If you're counting on 19 majors, you may be counting way too early. To be immortalized as many would like to do already, let's not forget that the greatness in golfer is defined by one, and only one, thing. How many majors. Money winners, total number of wins, etc. fade into history. 50 years from now, only one thing will be remembered, Majors. Don't get ahead of yourself. Tiger needs to win at least one major in '06 just to keep pace. Nicklaus won 2 in his 11th year to put him at 11 majors. Tiger knows full well what he needs to do to lock him in as the best ever, the 19th Major. The rest is irrelevant.
01/30/06 @ 10:54
Comment from: Fred [Visitor]
All stats are irrelevant when you try to compare people of different eras. They play different competitors.
But it is good to see that Wie is not the only golfer that folds under pressure.
To all the Wie bashers most golfers fold under pressure. Once Wie learns to control her nerves she will win many events. Fortunately for her time is on her side.
01/30/06 @ 11:32
Comment from: David Meyers [Member] Email
I agree, I want to see a person win a tournament. I do not enjoy someone being handed the trophy.

That being said, I feel for Nathan. Poor bugger, you know he must be sick to his stomach for missing the opportunity.
01/30/06 @ 11:51
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Tiger pulled a "Full Monty" (as in Colin Montgomery) and hung in to the end until the field collapsed around him.

Tiger was the first one to admit he did not have his "A" game with him and felt bad for Ollie in the end. But a W is a W anyway you pull it off.

For Fred: Tiger is the topic in this post not Wie. Don't worry you will get your chance in a couple weeks.
01/30/06 @ 13:03
Comment from: stone [Visitor]
Steve--Tiger is already a legend in the game of golf, if he never wins another major he is probably the second greatest player of all time. I agree that he must at least approach Jack's major record to be considered the greatest, but in this age of greater parity, stronger players and better athletes I am unsure he would need number 19 to be considered better than Nicklaus. Tiger himself has often said that Majors are all that matters, but I disagree with both of you, they do not tell the whole story. How many people would say that Tom Watson or Gary Player were better players or immortals compared to Arnold Palmer? I would guess not many rational ones, yet they both have more major titles than Palmer. Palmer was more than just a great champion, he was an ambassador for the game of golf. Walter Hagan has more major titles than anyone in history except Jack and I don't think many would argue that he was superior to Tiger or Hogan or even Bobby Jones. Raise your hand if you think that Nick Faldo was a greater golfer than Byron Nelson, I didn't think so. Majors are a great measuring stick, but they are not the only one that should be used when gauging greatness.
01/30/06 @ 14:21
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
It was as if all those guys were crumbling under the pressure.

I think there are 2 players who could stand up to Tiger well at the majors:
1. David Howell. He stood up to Tiger very well at the HSBC, only a couple of months ago. Tiger was chasing him for the full of the 4th round, but Howell held on very well and with confidence.
Also there was some stat, like Howell has scored better rounds than Tiger in 5 of the 6 rounds they played together.
NOTE: I am not saying that Hwowell is better than Tiger. I am merely saying that it is obvious that the media frenzy of playing with Tiger doesn't put him off.

2. Padraig Harrington. He had a difficult year, last year for obvious reasons, but his two pga wins were very significant.
Over the last few years, he had many 2nd places, but it was the way he won the tournaments that impressed me most, particularly the 2nd one, where he had to practically wrestle it from Jim Furyk, being behind most of the round.

These are the two guys to challenge Tiger, if they can get in contention on the back nine of a major.
01/30/06 @ 14:41
Comment from: Spence [Visitor]
Two solid choices Norman, but I think you mentioned the key, "if they can get into contention on the back nine" You know Tiger will be there, but given the 7 year major drought I have a hard time picking Europeans to challenge at much outside of the Ryder Cup.
01/30/06 @ 15:10
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Every year on the tour we hear about the "best player never to win a major". Phil finally came thru and now it is Chris DiMarco's turn in the spotlight. He came very close last season and I think he is the guy to watch this year. I like his grit and determination.
01/31/06 @ 04:17
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
One-Putt, Chris is a good player, but I certainly wouldn't call him the best player not to win a major.

I think there are a few guys ahead of him, in that unsaught-after list.
01/31/06 @ 14:25
Comment from: jackson [Visitor]
Tiger the best athlete of all time are you kidding me? The best golfer, maybe. The most dominant in his sport, one day maybe, but the best athlete please, have you ever seen Tiger dribble a basketball, he looks like the kid that rode the short bus to school when you were a kid. How about football, baseball, running, jumping---Save the golfers as great athletes argument. He is a great golfer period, as far as great athletes I'll take Jim Brown, the greatest football player to live and arguably the most dominant lacrosse player in history while at Syracuse.
01/31/06 @ 21:47
Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
Michelle Wie will challenge Tiger. I have UnderPar's authority on that one. Jackson, have you ever seen Tiger run? Evidently he has speed to burn. You are correct about Brownie, though. He was always a better lacrosse player than running back.
02/01/06 @ 12:53
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
When you guys are discussing football players, I'm guessing you mean American Football.

Very convienient to pick a sport, where the winner has to be from the USA.

How about Pele. There is a footballer.
02/01/06 @ 14:22
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Tim Poulos said:
Yes Tiger will EASILY pass Jack Nicklaus's Major record. Tiger already has 13 Majors, including 10 professional majors. Jack had 20, which included 18 professional majors.

Jack has 18 majors. Tiger has 10.
There is no point in quoting other silly statistics to confuse the issue.
02/01/06 @ 14:25
Comment from: David [Visitor]
>> Michelle Wie will challenge Tiger.

All right, let's just dismiss that one at the outset. Absolute bollocks. There is no man on earth who can beat Tiger more often than he can beat them, so why should Michelle Wie, a FEMALE no less, be any different to the best MALE golfers? Men are better than women; we've been over this, and it is generally true the vast majority of the time.

Also, Gary Player and Tom Watson were better players than Arnie. Just because they didn't run up the green and throw their hats into the crowd when they sunk a major-winning putt, doesn't mean they weren't better players. Arnie was more well-known and liked, but Player and Watson were more solid players who folded less often than Palmer.

Tiger is actually good at other sports. But when somebody stated that Tiger is perhaps the best athlete of all time, he/she did not mean he also dominates other sports. The meaning was that Tiger dominates golf as no other sportsman or woman has ever dominated any other sport. That statement is perfectly reasonable, and probably true. Tiger is in excellent shape and is likely is the most dominant sportsperson in history. Winning that 19th major is purely academic; Tiger now is better than Jack ever was.
02/02/06 @ 14:09
Comment from: rob russell [Visitor]
I have a problem with Woods and two things, ridiculous appearance money rumoured to be up to three million us and his lack of international appearances. These obviously go hand in hand as no event say in australia can afford that criminally large amount of money. The other top us players are equally spoilt and simply enjoy the gravey train in the us. The world game would benefit from stronger fields if woods would lead by example, like ernie, and bigger purses, which could be offered if huge chunks of it were not being signed over to a charisma vortex like Michelson. The US tour needs to sanction events world wide so the top players are regularily seen around the globe, which would in turn expose international talent to the elite of the game so new champions can emerge.
02/02/06 @ 18:49
Comment from: David [Visitor]

I agree with some things you said, and disagree with others. Can't really be bothered arguing today.

As for the Watson-Palmer-Player thing, well, just look at the 'numbers' and you'll see that Watson and Player were better than Palmer.

I've never heard of Player cheating, but I certainly believe Palmer was not entitled to that drop in the 1958 Masters. One can, under the Rules of Golf, only take a free drop from a plugged lie on a 'closely mown area,' i.e. the fairway. Palmer was in the rough.
02/04/06 @ 09:16
Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
Not all golfers, just one.

RE: My Wie comment. I toss them about like salad, knowing that someone will bite.

From a fellow Demon Deacon, the sad thing about Palmer is, after 1966 and Billy Casper, he was never the same. He didn't age well, with only one quasi-major (a USGA Senior Open) to follow.
02/05/06 @ 00:08

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