Michelle Wie's putt at Nabisco was no choke

Tim, I agree. She was very, very close and gave it her all. Was like the close buzzer shot that bounced off the rim. I thought I heard the cries of 10 million Wie warriors.

She's learning and she'll win eventually. I'll laugh if it's the John Deere.

I agree with you, Wie definitely was choking. She had what she believed was a makeable eagle and a win, and she thought she'd definitely birdied the hole if she missed the eagle. She was trying to win the tournament and knew what it may take. It's just that her plans did work out.

We'll definitely we her win a lot on tour. She's only 16, and has years ahead of her.

Ken,

Don't worry, you won't be laughing. Unless, that is, you're one of those guys who laugh at their own stupidity.

I blame her caddie for not reeling her in. That is the second time he has let her down big time.

Ah... what do you do with a teenager who has 180,000 plus in her purse after seven days of work?

The problem (for lack of a better word) was not with the putt but rather the choice of shot from off the back fringe. Extremely poor thinking on both her part and her caddy's part.

Michelle only needed a birdie on one of the easiest holes on the course to get into the playoff. Two players EAGLED that hole in the final three threesomes. Many birdies were made on that hole on the final day and throughout the tournament. But when all the chips were on the table, the fact is that Michelle just couldn't make the grade yet again. She played well, but T3 is not winning. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

The putt wasn't a choke job, the chip was. I got crucified on this site for suggesting that Michelle had been arrogant in her decision making to go for broke with a low percentage chip, but it seems One-Putt of all people actually agrees with me, except he is blaming her caddy for the gaffe and once again letting little Michelle off the hook. I wish I never had to take responsibilty for my mistakes in life.

How is she not taking responsibility for her mistakes?

It's not clear that a putt would have worked out better since there was a lot of fringe to put through (8 feet according to her caddy). Ochoa had a similar putt and left if farther from the hole. Wie feels more chipping so she chipped. You may question her judgement, but I don't think it was an obvoiusly wrong decision, and it was hardly a "choke".

I'm more happy with how she played 18 in the final round than how she played it in the first 3. I think the final round was the only time she went for the green in 2. She was burned there last year with a double, so she has become conservative. Being conservative has clearly helped her keep out of trouble, she had very few bogies through the 4 rounds on a very tough course. But, IMHO, she needs to use her length advantage more on par 5s. Maybe if she had gone for it in the first 3 rounds she would have done better on 18 in the final round.

One-putt and Liam are (koff, koff) right. She played 71 marvelous holes of golf and had one slip of judgment. The one thing she couldn't afford was a three-putt (or chip and two-putt, but there's no convenient phrase for that). It's partly on her caddy who really can't question her choice if she's already made it. His job is to encourage her once she's chosen the club. But it's situations like this that will serve her well in the long run. She won't make this mistake again. If she does, well, she might do it forever.

"Comment from: Liam [Visitor]
The putt wasn't a choke job, the chip was. I got crucified on this site for suggesting that Michelle had been arrogant in her decision making to go for broke with a low percentage chip, but it seems One-Putt of all people actually agrees with me, except he is blaming her caddy for the gaffe and once again letting little Michelle off the hook. I wish I never had to take responsibilty for my mistakes in life."

Tiger had a similiar situation at Isleworth last week with one going off the back and Steve handed him a putter. Neither of them said a word to each other, Tiger hit it by a few feet and then made the uphill putt coming back. If Tiger had handed the putter back to Steve and asked for a wedge he would have said something. After all they are partners in the outcome.

Michelle's Caddy has more years experience carrying on the Professional golf tour than she has been alive. The first time he blew it was at the Samsung when she was faced with a complicated drop and he should have insisted she get a rules official involved. That one cost her a 4th place finish.

The Wie's hired this guy for a reason and it wasn't to only tote her bag around and clean her clubs.

I noticed Inkster has risen back up the standings after this guy jumped ship.

The one thing I have said before is she needs to get her putting average down to 27 to 28 per round for GIR and then she will win and win a bunch. Her tee to green game is what keeps her in the match for now. Check it out and she will have one of the highest GIR percentages in the tournament.

For example Lorena was hitting a Five-Wood for her second shot on 18 and stuck the green. Michelle was hitting a Five-Iron into the green and was almost a club too long. That is a huge advantage in the long run.

One thing I've noticed on these threads is that even Michelle Wie's most ardent admirers aren't claiming lately that she will win on the PGA tour. That used to be a common expectation. In the recently concluded Kraft, Wie's putting wasn't all that was amiss, and she wasn't the only female whose game didn't measure up to that of the men. Since both events were being televised concurrently, it was easy with a little channel switching to see the big difference between the powerhouse game on the PGA tour and the pitty-pat game of the women. Phil scored 17 strokes better to win the BellSouth than Karrie did in her Kraft victory. 9under would have gotten T15th in the men's game. Michelle's 8under T3rd would mave gained her T19th. 4under solo 5th at the kraft would have been good for T42nd, 2under T6th was good for T57th, 1under T8th would have been T64th, and even par T11th was T66th in the men's tour event. Both courses were par 72, however the men's course measured 7343 yards to 6569 yards for that of the women, 776 yards longer. Also the greens were tougher to read, the pin placements more diabolical, the bunkers deeper. and the rough was higher. In light of rhese indisputable facts, are there any Michelle Wie fans left anywhere on this planet who think that she or any other female golfer will ever be able to compete with male pros on the PGA tour?

Alex,
your comparing of the final score for the mens and womens events is simply ridiculous.

If it meant anything, then someone could compare, this years mens US Open to the Kraft Nabisco.
I bet the score at the Mens US Open won't be as good as the score at The Kraft Nabisco. Does this mean that the women are in fact better golfers than the men? No it certainly does not.

As you should know tournament scores vary from week to week, based on the course, the conditions and the set up.

Since you bring up the whole men/women debate, who exactly claimed that many lpga golfers would be able to make it on the pga?

The only woman, that Wie supporters have put forward as being capable of competing on the pga tour is Michelle Wie.
Lorena Ochoa is considered a long hitter on the lpga tour. Yet on the 18th, she had to use a 5 wood to make the green on her 2nd shot. Wie used a 5 iron and actually went over the green. It is pretty obvious that Wie has a length advantage over nearly everyone on the lpga. There is also other aspects of her game that suggest she can be more competitive on the pga than other lpga players.
However she isn't the finished article yet. Over the last few years, she has improved dramatically every year. From the start of this year so far, she has yet again improved by a long way.

Her 2nd round at the Sony where she hit many extramely long drives, longer than she had before, and may more 300+ drives than her previous attempts, and well outdrove people like David Toms and Jim Furyk showed that she has the driving length required.
She still needs to improve many aspects of her game in order to really challenge for pga titles.
However, she is practically there as regards the physical side of things, not only in her driving game, but also with regard to trajectory and spin on her approach shots.

So far, her progress has been outstanding. If she continues to progress I think she can dominate the lpga and win on the pga tour.
However, I don't think any other woman currently on the lpga will do this.

The chip from the fringe was the correct shot selection. I think she was just too agressive with it. She should have been playing it for the birdie and tie rather than the outright win.

As for her GIR, she need to cut her distance to the pin. Once she does this, the number of putting strokes will drop. She has too many lower percentage puts outside of 15 ft.

Norman, par at the US Open will be par 70, not 72. How do you explain the 774 yard difference in the men's course last week compared to the ladies'? Did you notice the pitty-pat nature of the women's game as compared to the men's? You are to be congratulated, Norman. You are the only person I've ever encountered that actually believes that Michelle Wie or any other female has the capabilities to compete on the PGA tour, and you have the nerve to admit your opinion. Are there any others so inclined? If she ever acquires a PGA tour card, we shall see.

Alex,

I have tracked the progress of Michelle's statistics on PGA courses over the last 3 years and one tournament into her fourth year so far.

I, too, think Michelle will eventually win on the PGA. My prediction is, most likely not this year, but quite possibly next year; and almost certainly in two years time.

Will she win a PGA Major? I'd have to see another year or two worth of stats to go that far...(plus my innate male chauvistic genes absolutely scream that that would be impossible.) Ask me that one this time next year.

All provided, of course, that she continues to play the occasional PGA tourney.

She may decide to stick exclusively to the LPGA once she can qualify for a card--though I personally doubt that she will give up her dream of a Master's invitation until her arthritis no longer lets her hold a club or herd her walker around a golf course.

I don't know the actual dialogue between Michelle and her caddie on the final 18th hole, but before putting any blame on the caddie, it will be important to know the details.
Also, why not look at the good decision he helped her make over the 4 days, not just one last hole he may or may not have contributed in failing.

Wie made millions of chip shots before and she was even surprised it went away like that. It is all 20/20 hindsight. The critical misfortune was the funny bounce the 2nd shot made. 180 turn, then drop 8 feet into the rough. That was the sign of Golf Gods not allowing Wie for a win this time. (and Webb's miracle Eagle)
In the long run, this is all nutrients for Wie to grow into a stronger player. If she gets too lucky and wins a major at 16, where is the fun and motivation ???

Well, that's two so far who believe that Michelle Wie will win on the PGA tour. And this before she has ever won on the LPGA tour, before she has ever made a cut on ANY men's tour event despite several attempts, and before she has shown any desire or ability to qualify for a PGA tour card. And John Neal thinks this miracle has a good chance of happening next year, in 2007! And if not then, 2008 for certain! I give you Wie Warriors a lot of credit. You have more nerve than the guy who ate the first oyster. If hope springs eternal, you guys are Old Faithful geyser!

Maybe not a PGA tour event just yet Alex, but I like her chances in the SK Telecom Open in Korea.

Alex,

Had the weather been the same for the '05 and '06 Sony Open as it was in '04, she would have made the cut. The Golf Gods decided she was to young to make a cut in a PGA event and blew her ball all over Waialae. If you think that's only making a cut in a PGA tournament, go ask Parker McLachlin about making the first PGA cut. If I'm not mistaken, he said it was the hardest thing to do.

Alex said:
Norman, par at the US Open will be par 70, not 72. How do you explain the 774 yard difference in the men's course last week compared to the ladies'?
**********************************

STOP RIGHT THERE.

You are comparing the pga tour and the lpga tour and saying the pga tour is way better. The difficulty with that is that you are phrasing it in a way, as if someone were disagreeing with you.
Has anyone said that the lpga tour is on a par? Has anyone even said they were close?

There is no doubt, that there is a massive gap, no only in quality but even moreso in depth on the two tours.

My opinion on the subject is related to one girl who has shown what she can do on a pga course.
I know just how difficult it is to make it at Challenge Tour (Nationwide) level. It took me years before I even got comfortable there, and so I know just how difficult the big time is.

On you other points of getting and keeping a tour card. Yes it is difficult, and extremely difficult at that, but what she has shown so far, leads me to believe that she can do it.

Who knows I may join her some day! This year if I can make the epga end of year euro pga championship, I'll be delighted.

Anyway, it has been fun commenting here for a few days. Hopefully I'll pop in from time to time, during other Wie events, but unfortunately the Michelle Season, corresponds with the Norman Season, ie lots of Euro Tour events from May onwards, Euro Tour events that are actually in Europe. What a concept!

One-Putt, Do you like Michelle's chances to WIN or to MAKE THE CUT at the SK Telecom? Kai, I wasn't polling those on this thread who think it possible for Michelle or any woman for that matter to make a cut in a men's event. The question was, who thinks Michelle or any female can WIN or secondarily be competitive on the PGA tour. Two respondents said that of all the women playing golf on this planet, only Michelle Wie is capable of performing this miracle, and one went so far as to say it would almost definitely happen within two years. Neither explained just how this miracle would occur. Incidentally, my congratulations and appreciation to the folks on this thread for the civility and good manners being shown in this repartee as opposed to the insults and profanity being used by the juvenile delinquents on Baldwin's blog.

For now, I am rooting for Michelle Wie to make the cut in a men's event. If we use the standard of being in the top 10 and ties on the final day as being competitive, that is likely to take a while, but I believe she will achieve that. Winning is more difficult.
Will she focus on the men's game, and play only a few women's events--or will she focus on the women's game and play only a few men's events? If the former I think there is a good chance she will be able to win sometime on the PGA on a week she gets very lucky. If she plays mostly women's events I think it is unlikely she will win one of the few men's events she plays.

Jim C, Am I to take your reply as a definite maybe?)-: Tell me Jim, for my own edification, how it would be possible for a young girl such as Michelle Wie, or even a mature female superstar such as Annika Sorenstam, to focus on the men's game and play only a few women's events? I am sure that there is a minimum number of events in which an LPGA member must participate in order to maintain accreditation. Would a fine, young talent like Michelle forgo LPGA membership to be somewhat of a sideshow trying to get the maximum number of exemptions on the PGA tour to prove she can accomplish something as difficult and unrewarding and nebulous as making a PGA tour cut? I can't imagine her agent and/or handlers opting for such a strategy. That would make about as much sense as a craps player trying to get rich by placing his whole bankroll on a hop hardway ten

Michelle Wie might choose to play LPGA Majors and a couple of other events, but otherwise focus on the men's game. If she could dominate the LPGA Majors, maybe averaging two or three wins per year, then she would be in a position of someone who was so good it would make sense for her to be trying her hand at the men's game.

I think the fact that Wie has yet to win on the LPGA makes her participation in the PGA tour easier, not harder.

For a Sorenstam to compete, and lose, on the PGA would be seen as more of a humiliation, because she's been such a dominant player on the women's tour.

Wie has far less to lose. If she starts winning consistently on the women's tour and emerges as a top player there, I think she'll rethink her participation on the men's tour.

It's a fallacy to state that the best player on the women's tour will do the best on the men's tour. The games are different. The women's courses don't play to Wie's strengths.

The few times she pulls out her driver there, it elicits gasps from the audience because it is such a rare event.

I forgot to add this point. If the courses on the women's tour were set up like the men's with longer holes, it's pretty clear that Wie would fare much better than she already does, given her much longer driving ability.

If that were the case, Wie would have less incentive to play on the men's tour and could gauge her performance against the men much more accurately, such that, if she were ever to start getting the same kinds of scores on men's courses that the men were getting, she could eventually cross over with confidence.

The LPGA courses, however, are currently set so that players who average under 250-yard drives aren't at a significant disadvantage. This may even the field for many of the players on the women's tour, but it puts a limit on Wie's strong points.

Alex let me ask you a question?

All the women's tours are tied together, so Michelle as a Pro can only get six exemptions a year right? The other two women's events she will play are not LPGA sponsored events. So at the most she can play only eight events a year as a Pro who is not eligible for LPGA membership and if she doesn't desire to be a HS dropout to apply.

So where does Michelle turn to when she wants to get more competative events in each year to improve as a player? Remember Alex she is still a young player under development.

Yes Alex I like her chances to make the cut at the SK and the Deere this year. Will she win? No Alex I don't believe she has the skills to keep pace with the men at this point of her young career.

Can she win a men's Pro event in the future? Who know's Alex, stranger things have happened in my lifetime.

I never thought I would live to see a 16 year old girl pop the ball past 300 yards ever or shoot a couple of 68s in a men's event, but I did.

Jim C, the maximum number of sponsors' exemptions to the PGA tour to anyone regardless of sex is seven per year. With these exemptions as highly prized and as hard to come by as they are, is is very unlikely that any female would ever be granted more than the two or possibly three that Michelle is already getting. If she does not acquire full-time status as an LPGA member, she would have to continue receiving exemptions to that tour's majors in order to be able to possibly dominate them with a lot of wins. I am certain that the continued granting of exemptions to Miss Wie when she was not an LPGA member AFTER she becomes age-eligible would be a source of great friction to the qualified members of the LPGA and would not be tolerated. Just as Annika has risen to the top by striving to win on the women's tour, it is my opinion that taking that same route is the only feasible option for Miss Wie.

Alex, I'm sure the LPGA sponsors would continue to grant exemptions to Wie if she still attracted viewers, which I'm sure she will. Bivens has even said that it would be fine with the LPGA if Wie doesn't join and continues playing on exemptions, though I'm sure they would rather have her join.

I too think Wie has a chance of someday winning a PGA event if she focuses on it and continues to improve. A lot depends on what motivates her. It must have been very exciting for her at the end of the KN (at least the part before the wedge shot) with all the cheers as the three of them were walking up to the green on 18 (maybe too much, I think she started celebrating too soon). She may find she gets more satisfaction out of LPGA events if she consistantly places at or near the top. Then again, she may get bored.

Click on the link above to see what Michelle thinks of the Wie-bashers. She's quite purrty when she's mad.

What if..........Michelle does win an LPGA Major that includes a five year exemption on the LPGA tour?

Take for example a win at the US Women's Open:

* Five-year exemption on LPGA Tour
* 10-year exemption into the U.S. Women's Open
* Five-year exemption into the Kraft Nabisco Championship
* Five-year exemption into the McDonald's LPGA Championship Presented by AIG
* Five-year exemption into the Weetabix Women's British Open
* Entrance into the 2006 HSBC Women's World Match Play Championship
* Entrance into the Mitchell Company LPGA Tournament of Champions
* Exemption into the 2006 Samsung World Championship
* Exemption into the 2006 Evian Masters
* Rolex watch as a Rolex First-Time Winner
* 60 Rolex Player of the Year points

Add in six sponsor exemption and Michelle would not have to join the LPGA tour fulltime for five years at least while playing in any event she chooses to enter.

I meant to say "add in seven PGA exemptions".

Thanks, guys, for your input. Thus far, John Neal is the only one who has definitely stated that Miss Wie will win on the PGA tour, AND she will do it, according to John, almost certainly within two years. The rest of the Wie supporters temper their predictions with many if's, and's, but's, and maybe's. Here's my considered opinion: It's one thing for a long, willowy lass like Michelle to eventually make a cut in any men's event, something, incidentally, that has eluded her despite several tries. It is quite another for an 18 year-old female, for that is what Miss Wie will be in two years, to defeat a field of 140+ PGA touring pros, a full field of the best male golfers in the world. Such an outcome would undoubtedly be considered the greatest upset in the entire history of sports, and rightfully so. I just don't see how it can happen, be it by Miss Wie or any other female.

Wayne, We've been having a polite discussion on this blog. Posting such a juvenile and stupid cartoon has no place among sensible postings. It belongs on Baldwin's blog where insults and profanity abound.

Alex, where's your sense of humor? If that doesn't bring a smile to your face, I don't know what will. Lighten up dude.

Alex we all know it wasn't Michelle. There was not a "sparkly" Omega watch in sight.

I must say Cindy Crawford was looking quite good at the Omega show in Beverly Hills and she is an avid golfer.

The word from Korea is the SK-Telecom Open may draw more fans than any Pro event in golf history.

The numbers are in the 60,000 range for the first two days and event organizers are scrambling to figure out how to handle the crowds if Michelle makes the cut and plays the weekend. The scene could look like when Pope John Paul visited Manila after Michelle arrives in Seoul.

The entire country follows Michelle's every move on television and in the national press. I hope they have some good security in place.

"The entire country follows Michelle's every move on television and in the national press. I hope they have some good security in place. "

I heard that pictures of Chris Baldwin have been distributed to law enforcement officials with instructions to "Shoot to kill".

Gary Player says that if he was in charge of the Masters, he would have offered an invitation to Michelle. I guess he was impressed with the teen when they did a presentation together during an awards ceremony. At the time, he was made to stand on a box next to er.

Clay Ogden carded an 83 today at the Masters. Same guy that beat Michelle and became the eventual winner of the Public Links Championship. Michelle could have done better with the invite.

Wayne, The fact that a top-notch amateur like Clay could only muster an 83 at Augusta is a testament to the difficulty of the layout. How could Miss Wie have done any better? Her putting is the weakest part of her game. The greens are like a marble staircase. I seriously doubt if any female pro could ever break 80 on that course. It measures 7445 tards, for goodness sake!

Clay Ogden barely qualified for match play at the APL shooting 72-77 for a T58 compared to Michelle Wie's 76-72 for T47. Perhaps his 83 in the first round was just a clunker like his 77 the second day of medal play. I'm sure Michelle Wie could do as poorly on a bad day--but on a good day there is no way she will be more than 12 strokes behind the leader(67 in this case).

Jim C, Your post is just more of the same supposition and conjecture concerning what Miss Wie could have or would have done IF she had been in the tournament instead of Clay Ogden. The fact is she wasn't in the Masters', having been soundly defeated 5 and 4 by Ogden.

I'd still rather watch a Michelle than an Ogden any day of the week.

FACT Michelle Wie has twice shot rounds of 68 on the PGA. The Masters is not 12 shots tougher than the John Deere or the SONY--or do you think Vijay and Chad's 67s would be equivalent to 55s at John Deere or SONY? While you doubt any female pro could ever break 80 on the course(set up for the Masters) I have no doubt Michelle Wie could do so this year on a good day. Give her a half dozen rounds in similar conditions this year and I bet she would break 80 at least a couple of times.

Watch this Sunday's "60 minutes". The elegant Michelle Wie appears....

Jay, thanks for the tip. I heard about her doing another "60 minutes" about a month ago. I thought I missed that one.

For drama at the Masters, I hope Tiger Woods gets something going on the weekend. If he doesn't show up, I think Ernie Els will be the one to beat.

Jim C, Miss Wie break 80 on THAT Masters' course? With those "marble staircase" greens and her mediocre putting? With the diabolical pin placements? On a course measuring 7445 yards? Maybe. But she have to skip at least one of the par fives. Several established male pros are having difficulty breaking 80.

Only two players had best rounds of 80, everyone else broke 80 at least once in the first two rounds. As far as Wie's putting is concerned sometimes its good and sometimes not so good--when it is good she would have a very good chance of breaking 80.