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117 comments

Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Actually the exact opposite is true. Unlike you I can document my claim. Compare what Morgan Pressel said about Michelle Wie in interviews at the LPGA site this past week for the HSBC with what she has said in the past--such as the Sports Illustrated article last year.

What is true is that the LPGA as an organization is taking the same hardline approach to Michelle Wie as an outsider that it took earlier this year to photographers at the Fields Open. Brittany Lincicome looks a little like the new Morgan Pressel--but she is being set up for her anti-Wie comments much more than Morgan Pressel ever was. I think we will see how much support Wie has this coming week at the John Deere--a tournament on a Tour that does not exhibit the unrelenting hostility to Michelle Wie that the LPGA does.

07/10/06 @ 11:44
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
So far, Wie reminds me of hyped phenom "Drew Henson".

He came to Michigan as the Savior, took playing time away from Tom Brady just because alumni wanted him to. He made a few more incredible plays and had more "athleticism" but also blew a few games. In a rush to become "great", he skipped the development phase.

Then he signed with the Yankees, never made it in baseball, left UM early after doing a fraction of what was expected, and is now struggling to make an NFL team. Tom Brady is the Big Winner.

Here's hoping all the rising LPGA stars developing properly show Wie -- and her "fans" it takes more than physical gifts and a big contract to become a winner.

07/10/06 @ 11:46
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Jim is right.

People like Tim should just watch the John Deere Classic and they should then know just how much support Wie has.

It is nice for the anti-Wie brigade to have Brittany Lincicome as their new idol. However they should remember something.

Marisa Baena won last year's matchplay championship, and it is the only title she has won. She has been an lpga member for years and years.
I'm not sure how long, perhaps someone can look it up.

The matchplay championship is a good spectacle. However it bares little relation to normal tournament play.
07/10/06 @ 11:56
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Norman... sounds like sour grapes to me.
07/10/06 @ 12:29
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
Mention any thing negative, no matter how true it is about Wie and the Wietards come out in force. Oh, but I forget, she's only 16.
07/10/06 @ 12:35
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
I keep reading that Michelle is the one making her own career decisions. She isn't being influenced by her father or others.

Now, another in our face example of her mature and gracious inclinations. As we all know, 14 to 16 yr olds have infallible decision making capability.

Maybe some adult supervision would be appropriate.
07/10/06 @ 12:50
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
The only thing I find tiresome is idiots in the media who set up unrealistic expectations than savage her if she doesn't meet them. And worse than that they nit pick everything she says. After the McDonalds she said she didn't play her best and was criticisized for that. After the HSBC, she said she thought she played solid, but Brittany played "fantistic" and you criticize her for that. Personally, I don't think she needs to make excuses, she has played 5 LPGA events so far this season and has scored in the top 5 in all of them.

If you're sick of the hype, stop contributing to it and write about something else.
07/10/06 @ 12:54
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
Mention any thing negative, no matter how true it is about Wie and the Wietards come out in force. Oh, but I forget, she's only 16.
07/10/06 @ 12:59
Comment from: George [Visitor]
***
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Jim is right.

People like Tim should just watch the John Deere Classic and they should then know just how much support Wie has.

It is nice for the anti-Wie brigade to have Brittany Lincicome as their new idol. However they should remember something.

Marisa Baena won last year's matchplay championship, and it is the only title she has won. She has been an lpga member for years and years.
***

Norman, you can't possibly be this dumb to make this comparison.

But since you don't even know how to properly use simple words such as "bested", maybe you are.

Baena is approx. 29 years old.

Lincicome is 20 years old, almost 21. Lincicome made her pro debut at SBS Turtle Bay in 2005.

So to say, which is what you did, that since Baena's and Lincicome's only LPGA victories were in the same tournament, and then imply, which is what you did, that Lincicome could suffer the same one-win wonder fate as Baena, is pretty foolish. By definition, Lincicome has nearly a decade of potential upside on Baena, so your attempt to make a parallel is ridiculous.

Dumb. Come to think of it, that is the right word for you after all, Norman.

-George
07/10/06 @ 13:13
Comment from: Cliff Armstrong [Visitor]
I don'y know who tim mcdonald is but I've been following Michelle Wie for three years and she keeps getting better and better. The Wie "bashers" like yourself keep bashing, again and again. Three if the top four didn't make the semi-finals. The only one (according to commentators) who failed was Michelle. The young Lady who beat her was I think 5 under par and started out with birdies on three of the first four. In her last 2 "Match Play" tournements her losses were to the evential winner.
McDonald please list the golfers this year who been in the Top Five in all Five of thier Starts. I'm sure according to you since she is so bad it will be a long list

Cliff
07/10/06 @ 13:17
Comment from: Kimo [Visitor]
Hello, TC.

Too bad you could not make this a plus blog for BL. Last year, I thought she was "awesome" and expected to hear more from her after the 2005 Women's Open. BL looks like she has arrived. I hope so.

MW said she was doing her best. Despite that, BL won. That says something that BL missed--BL won with MW trying her best. I just wished BL could have resisted the snipes at MW.

Anyway about the MW bashing, did you miss the picture of high level consistency--yeah, without winning?


07/10/06 @ 13:26
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George,
Once again you have excelled yourself.

I did not claim that Brittany would have the same career as Marisa Baena. I simply stated that Matchplay is unique, and doesn't mean that she will win any more titles.

I am glad that you at least acknowledged that Brittany has a potential upside of 10 years on Marisa. That give Michelle 14 years of potential upside.

Nice one Georgie-porgie.

Wie-bashers usually claim that 16 year old girls have probably reached their peak in golfing ability.
George has broken one of the rules of Wie bashing club, by speaking out against this notion.
07/10/06 @ 13:26
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Her talent hasn't been in question. Her decisions have. If you value talent over all else then she's your heroine.
07/10/06 @ 13:30
Comment from: George [Visitor]
**
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Norman... sounds like sour grapes to me.
**

Well, if it walks like a Norman, talks like a Norman, it probably is a Norman.

So you can bet it's sour grapes.

It also smells like fear on Norman's part.

If I recall correctly, Lincicome appeared to be out-driving Wie throughout the match, also confirmed by press reports. And it also looks as if Lincicome can actually putt.

So now we have somebody who's four years older than Michelle and can out-drive Michelle.

Lincicome also has got that first win -- Michelle does not have a victory at this point -- on the heels of being in the mix at the U.S. Open.

Success breeds success. And now that Lincicome has won that first tournament, I suspect she’ll be hungry for more.

And you Wie Warriors need to rise above your bitterness and sour grapes and congratulate Brittany Lincicome on her first win. I may have missed it, but not one person praised her, at least on this web site.

So I shall do it. Lincicome came up through the amateur ranks and now is in the winner's circle. Congrats to Brittany Lincicome!

As one press account put it, the list of up-coming-coming young LPGA stars on the radar screen has increased by one this week.

-George
07/10/06 @ 13:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
For people who claim Brittany is so great at closing the deal, a summary of her career down the stretch so far:

- Safeway International 2005, was 3rd after 3 rounds. Shot 79 to slip back.
- Mastercard Classic. In contention and shot 84 in the final round.
- lpga championship 2006, in contention and shot 77 in final round to slip back.
- U.S. Women's Open 2006, was leading after 3 rounds. Shot 78 to slip back.

The anti-Wie brigade like to mention Michelle at the US Womens Open in 2005. What they fail to realise is that most players have alot more than one of those kinds of rounds in their collecting.

I listed some of Brittany's bad last round, but that is just when she got in contention.
Most of the time she wasn't in contention. In fact she missed 8 cuts in 20 events in the 2005 season.
In the 2006 season so far, she has only 4 top 20 finishes in her 14 tournaments.

She did really well to win the matchplay, but lets be honest, she isn't anywhere near as good a player as Michelle Wie is.
07/10/06 @ 13:39
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George,
Try not to worry.
I have no fear of Lincicome in regard to Michelle Wie.

Lincicome's victory is very welcome for the lgpa and it gives another young player more profile so that is welcome.
However, she has along way to go before she could claim to be in Michelle Wie's league.
If Brittany can get top 5 in the next 4 majors, she will be well on the way.

Then again, what will Michelle have achieved by then.
07/10/06 @ 13:43
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Kimo... the problem was that MW said she played well but got a lot of bad breaks... then added that BL played great. MW was apparently inferring that BL only beat her because of the bad breaks.... that is what so irritating... why not just say that BL played better than I did and deserved to win.... That wasn't so hard was it????
07/10/06 @ 13:53
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
In her first year as a pro Brittany missed 8 cuts and had 2 top 20 finishes, a T18 and a T20, This year she has 2 missed cuts and 2 top 5s, a 3 and this win, along with 2 other top 10s. With a 7 last week and the match play win Brittany appears to have found her game--but it took her a year and a half as a full time pro to do it.

GEORGE got the right word DUMB but applied it to the wrong person. George actually complained when Norman compared a 20 year old Brittany Lincicome to a 29 year old. According To George Lincicome has nearly a decade of poptnetial upside on Baena. This is exactly the argument Wie supporters have tried to make reagrding Micheele Wie. Michelle Wie has slightly more than 4 year of potential upside on Lincicome. We only ask the same consideration based upon age be given to Wie that George asks on behalf of Lincicome.
07/10/06 @ 14:01
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
The original comments weren't about her swing. They were about her mouth.

You're right, George. A big thumbs up to Brittany.
07/10/06 @ 14:17
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
The real test for Brittany will be how she performs in a regular LPGA event this week after her victory at match play. Is she a "One Hit Wonder" or a true emerging force on the LPGA tour.

Brittany with her new found fame will get a little taste of the demands and pressure Michelle faces everytime she enters an event. If she fails to win again, how cruel will the press and golf blogs be to her? How consistent will her play be thru the end of the season?

Will Britanny get a blonde and blue eyed pass if she falls in the future? Ms. Gulbis hasn't produced a win in three LPGA seasons and is given a free ride by the media and golf blogs each time.

One question to ask yourself Tim is how long has Brittany been playing LPGA tournaments and how many events did she enter before garnering her first win?

2004 two events with her best finish a 55th place at the Women's Open.

2005 seventeen events entered with her best finish a tie for 18th place. She missed the cut six times or more than a third of the time she entered an LPGA tournament.

2006 fourteen events entered with her best finish a 7th place finish at the Women's Open before her Match Play win. Britanny also missed two cuts this season.

I think we can safely say Ms. Baena a ten year LPGA vet, has proved out to be a "One Hit Wonder".
07/10/06 @ 14:20
Comment from: Jennifer [Visitor]
I have one word for the likes of Brittany and Morgan

J-E-A-L-O-U-S-Y !!!

Pure, unadulterated jealousy.

Brittany in her interview with CBS right after the game said of MW, "She's a nice girl"
What happened during the walk to the interview tent for her to change her mind and take swipes at Michelle?

As for not wanting to play with the men unless she's the best in the LPGA, BL and others who have commented on this before, forget one teeny weeny thing. No sponsors have offered them exemptions!!!!

07/10/06 @ 14:33
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Antoher point on matchplay.

Many people like to insult Colin Montgomerie for not winning a title in the USA.
He actually has won, but it was in matchplay.

The correct phrase would be, he has won a strokeplay event in the usa. However people obviously give matchplay such little recognition, that they say Monty has not won in the usa as of yet.

I bet many of you didn't know that.
07/10/06 @ 14:33
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Sorry Jim I stepped on your post as it took me awhile to compose.
07/10/06 @ 14:35
Comment from: George [Visitor]
**
GEORGE got the right word DUMB but applied it to the wrong person.
**

The reason I applied dumb to Norman is I was replying to Norman, not you, Jim. ;)

-George
07/10/06 @ 14:49
Comment from: John Law [Visitor]
The LPGA tour is starting to look 2nd rate. Even with Michelle and Annika all they can get is a 12 hour delayed coverage at The Golf Channel and 2 hours of pathetic mismanaged coverage by CBS

With all the petty sniping, jealousy and envy that permeates the tour against Michelle, she might do well to ignore it and play full time with the boys and abroad.

Where then would it leave the LPGA?

3rd rate?
07/10/06 @ 14:50
Comment from: George [Visitor]
**
She did really well to win the matchplay, but lets be honest, she isn't anywhere near as good a player as Michelle Wie is.
**

In reality Norman, you figure Michelle is already the best player on the LPGA tour, so by definition that inferior status would include Lincicome in your book.

That wasn't the debate. The real context is about winning and losing. Lincicome is the latest LPGA-er to have something Michelle doesn't have.

-George
07/10/06 @ 14:55
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
John Law, your claim is nonsensical. How can you say the LPGA is second or third-rate because of the theoretical absence of a player who has never won an LPGA tournament?

You might make that claim if Annika Sorenstam bolted.

It may be second-rate, but not because of anything having to do with Michelle Wie.
07/10/06 @ 14:57
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
I think we should look at Brandon Tucker[member] and his posting, the 2nd on this blog. He compares Michelle Wie to "hyped phenomon" Drew Henson who played quarterback at the University of Michigan, and who got playing time ahead of Tom Brady later a star in the NFL.

In team sports a hyped player might get playing time ahead of a better player--who would have a legitimate basis for making a complaint. In women's golf the only top player who is having her playing time restricted is Michelle Wie. There are no woman golfers who lose out on an opportunity to play because Michelle Wie is given favorable treatment. The only thing Michelle Wie gets more of than other players is media attention. But she doesn't take attention away from other players--her presence adds to the attention given to everyone in a tournament.

A case can be made that skipping a developmental stage to reach the big time early is something that is counterproductive in the long run. Unfortunately for Brandon Tucker's argument, every young rising star seems to have done this. The authority on what consistutes proper development of a young player is all time leading winner Kathy Whitworth. While she was unable to play college golf because such a thing did not exist when she was young--she has clearly expressed the view that the road travelled by Annika which includes four years of college golf before turning pro is the proper path, and those who follow another path are skipping an important developmental stage.

07/10/06 @ 15:06
Comment from: wie fan [Visitor]
u r a bonehead.
07/10/06 @ 15:20
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jim, saying that Michelle Wie doesn't take attention away from other players is probably the most ridiculous, inane statement in the annals of written communication.

You should put away your keyboard right now, my friend. You will never top that.
07/10/06 @ 15:23
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jennifer... what specific swipes do you think BL took at MW... All I have seen in the interviews was the BL basically, "...what bad breaks..." when told of MW's assertion that she had "...Lots of Bad Breaks...." Please explain.
07/10/06 @ 15:24
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
JENNIFER

I would like to answer your question about what happened to Brittany on her walk to the interview tent. Nothing. But something did happen in the tent. She was interviewed by DANA GROSS-RHODE.

Read the interview at the LPGA site--but do so as soon as possible. I cannot guarantee the LPGA won't delete this interview. Dana repeatedly asked Brittany leading questions designed to get Brittany to say bad things about Michelle. Time and again Brittany refused to rise to the bait--but finally Dana came up with a stratgem. Quote Michelle out of context, telling Brittany that Michelle said that she(Michelle) had a lot of bad breaks, but not mentioning the praise(Brittany played really good today) that Michelle included in the same comment--and make this part of a question as to what Brittany thought of the claim that Michelle had had a lot of bad breaks. Since no reputable reporter would ask this question in such a fashion if there had also been praise for Brittany, Brittany assumed that Michelle was belittling her accomplishment--and responded by belittling Michelle in return(or more precisely in what Dana had tricked her into thinking of as return). Since Dana had earlier in the tournament totally failed in her attempt to elicit hostile comments about Michelle Wie from Morgan Pressel, it was very importnat for Dana and the LPGA to find another player who would bash Wie, and finally they were able to succeed with Brittany.

The LPGA doen't want Michelle Wie to be too successful before she becomes a member of the LPGA subject to their rules(the LPGA foolishly thinks members are bound by their rules--a member who has no need for the LPGA would not be bound by their rules even if she were a member). Following this line of thinking the LPGA is doing everything they can think of to sabotage Michelle Wie. Hence the vast difference between the CBS interview and the LPGA interview in the tent.
07/10/06 @ 16:06
Comment from: George [Visitor]
** Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
The original comments weren't about her swing. They were about her mouth.**

I read the interview. Doesn't sound like Lincicome was running down Michelle.

Plus, what do you folks think of the apparent fact -- confirmed by two different players -- that Michelle gave her opponents the silent treatment?

**You're right, George. A big thumbs up to Brittany.**

It's ironic that so very few of the Wie Warriors actually note who won the tournament.

This lamentable but unsurprising behavior by the Wie Warriors mirrors how they have largely ignored or downplayed the accomplishments of Paula Creamer in her rookie season.

To be sure, Creamer in 2006 has not been as successful so far as in as her amazing rookie season, but that's the nature of sports. You have ups and downs, otherwise you couldn't make any comparisons.

For whatever reason, poorer driving, poorer approaches, poorer putts, wrist injury, more mistakes, etc., Paula has found the LPGA to be more of a struggle this year than last. It happens to everybody.

-George
07/10/06 @ 16:11
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Tim McDonald

Can you seriously think that Brittany Lincicome is getting less attention for winning the HSBC this year than Marisa Baena got last year because Michelle Wie was in the field this year? Wie brings interest to women's golf from people who would not care at all about the jsport if not for Wie--and many of thses fans are becoming interested in the sport because their interest in Wie brought the sport to their attention.

07/10/06 @ 16:23
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
George

I would think praise would be given to a player who is serious enough not to engage in idle chit chat with a rival player in match play. Name one other player who has been criticized for something like that. Christina Kim said she(Christina) was very talkative, but respected Michelle's right not to engage in conversation if she did not wish to do so. We can only wish that others would show the same respect for those who do not wish to engage in conversation during a match. This "Silent Treatment" is nothing like the viscous silent treatment the LPGA handed out jto Kelli Kuehne a few years ago out of jealousy.
07/10/06 @ 16:31
Comment from: George [Visitor]
BTW, is this the exchange that's got the Wie Warriors all whiny?

*****
Q. She said that she thought she played well, but she got some bad breaks. Would you agree with that?
BRITTANY LINICOME: You know, I don't remember there being any like bad kicks or – I don't think. She had a couple putts where she blew it by.
*****

I just don't see where you get to Lincicome is bashing Wie in this exchange.

Parse it.
"Bad breaks". What does that mean? To a long hitter like Lincicome, maybe that means a bad bounce into a bunker or swale or off a hill. So she responds "bad kicks." She couldn't remember any.

Now look at the middle part. "like bad kicks or -- I don't think."

So you can see Lincicome is going over this in her head trying to work it out, seeing if there was anything.

Finally, Lincicome does remember that maybe there are some things that could have qualified for a bad break:

"[Michelle] had a couple putts where she blew it by."

So at the end, Lincicome said there were some outcomes for Wie that fit the template for the interviewer.

Brittany never said, "Michelle said she had some bad breaks? She's crazy if she said that."

The Wie Warriors really need to read the interview Lincicome gave after she had defeated Wie before they whine that somehow Lincicome was dissing Wie.

-George
07/10/06 @ 16:33
Comment from: George [Visitor]
BTW, anybody who thinks the interviewer, DANA GROSS‑RHODE, who apparently did several of the interviews for the LPGA site, is anything but an uninformed clown and media hack, check out this exchange:

*****
Q. You had your wrist taped on the second hole, what's that about and will it affect you for tomorrow?
PAULA CREAMER: I've had my wrist taped for five tournaments, since ShopRite. I had it re‑taped. It was too tight. I lost feeling in my three fingers over here and it was kind of hard to feel anything. It was just too tight, so I had Al, our physio trainer, come out and retape it for me.

Q. Is that an injury?
PAULA CREAMER: I strained a ligament in my wrist.
*****

Or perhaps DANA GROSS‑RHODE does not have access to a TV set, since Paula's wrist injury was a topic on two days of national TV coverage of the U.S. Open just a few days ago.

-George
07/10/06 @ 16:43
Comment from: George [Visitor]
**This "Silent Treatment" is nothing like the viscous silent treatment the LPGA handed out jto Kelli Kuehne a few years ago out of jealousy.
**

So Michelle Wie is jealous of Brittany Lincicome? ;)

-George
07/10/06 @ 16:47
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
George. As you yourself noted, Michelle Wie was silent in a number of her matches. Obviously this was not something aimed at Brittany or any other particular golfer, but simply Michelle Wie's approach to match play.
07/10/06 @ 17:36
Comment from: DL [Visitor]
Lincicome's victory is a great story, a Cinderella story. But one reason that it is a great story is because she beat Michelle Wie in match play. It is because of MW that Lincicome got so much press - starting with her quarter-final victory. Indeed, the LPGA tour itself is getting more media coverage because the MW effect. It's therefore puzzling that MW is so resented by the some tour members.

MW draws sponsors, and attention – not just for herself but for the entire tour. Were not for her, members would be taking home smaller purses, and the likes of Pressel and Lincicome would be toiling in obscurity.
07/10/06 @ 17:57
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
George, Somewhere I get the idea that according to Jim C and the other Wie Warriors. Bubbles not only is completely innocent of making ANY untoward comments, she never has made any such remarks, and she never will make any since she is incapable of being anything but a sweet, tolerant, and magnanimous 16 year old girl. I know, some miserable skeptics might take exception to the dangling earrings, her wrap-around shades, her too-short, too-tight mini-skirt, and her aloof attitude, that says that she is too good, too elegant , too wealthy, to talk to her competition. But that's just Bubbles. Such snobbery is the privilege of the bourgeosie. Very few have this aura. Bubbles is one of the few that possesses this rare commodity.
07/10/06 @ 18:40
Comment from: George [Visitor]
DL
*****
MW draws sponsors, and attention – not just for herself but for the entire tour. Were not for her, members would be taking home smaller purses, and the likes of Pressel and Lincicome would be toiling in obscurity.
*****
They do anyway, including Paula Creamer. Wie draws attention because of the circus-style hype that surrounds her due to her decision to take the path less traveled. This is well known, so it does not bear belaboring.

The attention that Wie draws is for herself, not for the LPGA tour in general. Obviously, Wie does not exist in a vacuum, since the LPGA has to send out cannon fodder each week to be beaten by yet another first place finish by Michelle.

Despite four professional wins, two on the LPGA; despite being the 2005 top money earner among American golfers; despite effectively running the anchor part of the relay for the 2005 Solheim Cup team, Paula receives a mere fraction of the adulation heaped on Michelle Wie.

And tut, tut, that's not whiney, that's a fact.

Want some proof? Here again is a portion of an interview by the dolt who talked to Paula after her third-round victory

*****
Q. You had your wrist taped on the second hole, what's that about and will it affect you for tomorrow?
PAULA CREAMER: I've had my wrist taped for five tournaments, since ShopRite. I had it re‑taped.
[...]
Q. Is that an injury?
PAULA CREAMER: I strained a ligament in my wrist.
*****

Now, let's say Michelle Wie suffered a similar injury, or any kind of an injury that might debilitate her play, although not prevent her play, you would have to believe the same dummy who was clueless about Paula's injury would be all over Michelle's injury, because it would be generally known and remarked upon.

And that's because the hype is focused on Michelle Wie and not on the LPGA and its members generally.

Any trickle down benefits from on high to the young commoners such as Paula, Morgan, Brittany, Brittany, and so forth are questionable at best.

-George
07/10/06 @ 19:23
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George,
That interviewer should get the sack straight away. Anyone who watches any of the lpga tour would know about Paula's injury for quite a while.
07/10/06 @ 19:57
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
On the issue, is Michelle bring attention to the lpga or taking it away from other players.

At any event Michelle enters there is more press coverage. Some people claim that Michelle took away media coverage from Brittany. That is nonsense. The reality is that if Michelle hadn't been in this event and Brittany still won, it would have been barely reported.

I am not saying that is a good thing, it is simply reality.

However I don't think she helps the other players that much. Extra people tune in to watch Michelle, but most of them won't watch any other tournaments that she isn't playing in.

There will be some who will tune in to watch Michelle and may grow to like other players, and continue to watch those in tournaments that Michelle isn't playing in.
How many or what percentage this is, is just guesswork.
07/10/06 @ 20:02
Comment from: George [Visitor]
***
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
George,
Once again you have excelled yourself.

I did not claim that Brittany would have the same career as Marisa Baena.
***

What you said was this:
***
It is nice for the anti-Wie brigade to have Brittany Lincicome as their new idol. Howeverthey should remember something. Marisa Baena won last year's matchplay championship, and it is the only title she has won. She has been an lpga member for years and years.
***

I realize you're trying to worm out of the dumb comments you made, but there they are.

You clearly attempted to draw this parallel: "because Baena won this and failed to win others, Lincicome may also fail to win others because Lincicome's first win was the same match-play tournament as Baena's."

*****
I simply stated that Matchplay is unique, and doesn't mean that she will win any more titles.
*****

Can you really be this dense? If the players had both won a typical LPGA tournament, hell, even those victories would tell us nothing about whether they would ever win again.


*****
I am glad that you at least acknowledged that Brittany has a potential upside of 10 years on Marisa.
*****

I'm just trying to dumb it down for your comprehension level, Norman.

You and the other Wie Warriors are the ones who prattle on about Michelle's potential -- since you have nothing else to talk about.

Michelle, after all, hasn't actually WON A TOURNAMENT.

*****
Nice one Georgie-porgie.
*****

OK, Normie Whore-Wie.

Sheesh, are you still in school? Does this mean they let you use wireless computers when you're outside at recess? Because the teachers really shouldn't be letting you screw around on the Internet when you're supposed to be in class finishing your coloring book.

*****
Wie-bashers usually claim that 16 year old girls have probably reached their peak in golfing ability.
George has broken one of the rules of Wie bashing club, by speaking out against this notion.
*****

And you just broke one of the rules of logic club.

Here's where you screwed up yet again by making a strawman argument.

Let's say Alex says "16-year girls, especially ones with a nickame of 'Bubbles,' have probably reached their peak in golfing ability."

And then let's say that George points out that "Michelle Wie sure gets a lot of publicity even though Michelle has yet to win a professional tournament. And it sure seems that there are a lot of Sycophants and acolytes who when Michelle tells them, 'lick my mud-spattered boots', their only question is, 'should I start with the right boot or the left boot?'"

Now, I just want to point out that I have never called Michelle anything other than her proper first or last name, or both.

And then let's say that Norman says, "Alex bashes Michelle Wie and George does not worship the ground Michelle Wie walks upon to the same extent that Norman worships Michelle's walked-upon ground. Plus, George would have many skeptical questions -- perhaps even criticism -- were Michelle Wie to ask George to lick her boots or agree with the statement that Michelle can walk on water."

So Norman states: Both Alex and George bash Michelle Wie because neither adores her.

Therefore, in Norman's twisted world, George agrees with the statement that some have reportedly made, that, "At 16, girls have reached their peak of athletic ability."

One teeny problem in you putting that statement at my feet, Norm. I never have said that. The fact is, no one knows for sure. So you made a strawman argument, which actually is pretty much the type of flawed debate you conduct.

So nice try, but close only counts in horse shoes -- and the way Wie Warriors tote up Michelle's weekly 1st-place finishes.

-George
07/10/06 @ 20:44
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
I take issue with the assertion that the LPGA is second rate. It very well could be fifth or sixth rate.
07/10/06 @ 20:48
Comment from: DL [Visitor]
George wrote:

......

They do anyway, including Paula Creamer.....

Despite four professional wins, two on the LPGA; despite being the 2005 top money earner among American golfers; despite effectively running the anchor part of the relay for the 2005 Solheim Cup team, Paula receives a mere fraction of the adulation heaped on Michelle Wie.

......

The contradiction of what you wrote speak for itself, George.

If MW isn't such a draw for the LPGA Tour, tournaments would not have bend over backward giving her exemptions. To deny that simply becasue you dislike MW, is just plain disingenuous
07/10/06 @ 20:54
Comment from: hapahaole [Visitor]
Well George:

From the tone of your post, perhaps it would be best if Michelle Wie did not play on the LPGA tour so those young stars can take their rightful place in the sun. As Yogi Berra said, "This is deja vu all over again." I seem to remember a young Tiger. The LPGA powers-that-be and the rank-and-file resent a potential "cash cow". If Bivens can't get these parties together for the benefit of all and do some wheeling and dealing with the Wie team, I believe they will lose the best opportunity the LPGA has had yet. It's a win-win situation for everyone if some can swallow their pride.
07/10/06 @ 21:05
Comment from: Femfan [Visitor]
Who is even talking about this weeks Jamie Farr Classic with both Annika and Paula playing along with a host of other talented LPGA stars. It's sad to say that the media follows MW the gender bender, and they will be all over the John Deere, a mid level PGA event. This is not MW's fault. We all know by now the media goes where it can get the most bang for the buck. I mean look at Tim. He stated in the beginning he was an MW supporter but it didn't take him long to figure out which side of the blog the butter was on. It is the same with player interviews...anything to try to stir up controversy or stretch what a player says. They smelled fresh blood with Brittany. Michelle learned long ago not to rise to the bait, just like Paula, Morgan and others are learning now. All you posters can rant and rave but, MW is very good for golf and has a HUGE folowing worldwide and this isn't going to diminish any time soon.
07/11/06 @ 00:51
Comment from: AhhSoo [Visitor]
Me thinks that Tim McDonald just broke Chris Baldwin's record for the longest blog roll for the travelgolf.com staff writers competition.

Any of you suspect like I do that they write their Wie-bashing articles because they have a contest running in the office to see who can get the biggest (longest) rise out of us?

Getting to the point where it's best to read the article header and if it contains the word Wie, just laugh, click the mouse and move on.

Example-Tim's latest screed in part: "I know this isn't simple gender bias, because I know several females who feel the same." I know 2 females in my own household who like black people so this proves that their is no racial bias in the US anymore. This "supposed" professional writer, Tim McDonald, uses the feelings of "several females" to prove an opposite. Tim, you're not a professional, you're an amateur.

I accept your thanks for helping you win the contest over Chris Baldwin. l&l&l&lol
07/11/06 @ 01:23
Comment from: Jay [Visitor]
Not sure what the issue is with Timmy ? She finished in final eight, not bad. Sure, the public facination will wear out eventually, as novelty fades away, but why should she worry about that ? She loves playing golf and she already has a fat 10 mil contract in her pocket. Let her just play golf and stop beating up the 16 yr old girl.
07/11/06 @ 01:39
Comment from: Femfan [Visitor]
As far as MW taking attention away from other golfers, that is really a two way street. Look at all the press these club pros and journeymen PGA golfers get by playing alongside Michelle. Same goes for the LPGA. These men and women have their names in the press alot more now as the media swirls around MW. But...
As I stated earlier who in the media is paying attention to the Jamie Farr Classic, which is a class tournament with a great field and is on ESPN 2 So the arguement really goes both ways. It's up to the LPGA and the sponsors to get the word out.
Since she won't join any tour until at least after high school, all the LPGA needs is to figure out is a way to get MW into a few more events and the media lights will shine on all.
Whether this right or wrong doesn't make a difference the powers that be.
As good as the newly proud American Annika is the money and the media are drawn to the young phenom...sorry Tim nothing is going to change that anytime soon.

07/11/06 @ 03:50
Comment from: Boola Boss [Visitor]
Tim, YOU should be ashamed of yourself.......jumping off the Michelle bandwagon because you think she is getting too much hype.......by writing a VERY short lead in in this blog.....(that's ALL you had to do to get many, many replies)......YOU are contributing to the HYPE........so come right out and ADMIT IT!......you STILL are a BIG Michelle Wie fan.....you are just doing this because that's what you do.....NOT what you want to do.......and that is ROOT for Michelle....to do what she WILL DO soon......make a PGA cut.....AND WIN an LPGA event.......
07/11/06 @ 05:43
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
The Britanny-Michelle conflict is a non-story that is much ado about nothing. Sort of like Tim's blog.

Millions will be tuning in to watch the Michelle Wie Quest this weekend, so you won't be missed at all.

I would consider your "falling" off the Michelle Wie bandwagon on a scale of a pimple on the ass of humanity popping.
07/11/06 @ 06:26
Comment from: Jason [Visitor]
By the way, Tim I'm sure you have a "strong feeling" you're a legit journalist as well----but from the looks of your 4th rate work
Michelle has absolutely NOTHING to worry about.


Tim and George need about five promotions to even be considered
major a-holes so I wouldn't spend too much time responding to them

07/11/06 @ 06:30
Comment from: Christine [Visitor]
This hits it on the head. Wie is always talking about her "bad breaks" and that she's closer and closer to winning. Now we hear from both Se Ri Pak and Brittany Lincicome that she didn't even respond to their comments of "good shot" while paired with them at match play. That's just bad sportsmanship. Wie will continue to do her novelty events and expect adulation she finishes T55 at the John Deere just for making the cut but I'd rather watch a good sport win on the LPGA.
07/11/06 @ 07:06
Comment from: Femfan [Visitor]
Christine
Don't buy into the stink talk about MW. Many players, Tiger included can talk very little during the course of a match. This is even more true about a match play event. MW can be very social on the course,there s a time for everything. The media tries to forment and agitate little stories like this, otherwise Tim and the rest of us would have very little to talk about
07/11/06 @ 07:58
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

Christine,

I would take anything other LPGA players say with a grain of salt.

There is so much jealousy of Michelle Wie, that they will take anything she does and twist it into a negative to take her down.

Annika doesn't talk to other players during Match play either. Michelle is actually a pretty personable person.
The same exact thing was done to Kelli Kuehne when other LPGA players thought she was getting too much attention and she was a very nice girl as well.
07/11/06 @ 08:18
Comment from: Shanks [Member] Email
I'm a little surprised at the dissection of a teenage girl's remarks immediately following the emotional letdown of a loss. What did you expect - the candor of a fully mature adult? Michelle Wie handles all the attention very well - for a 16 year old girl. Yes, she is a professional and her game is open for inspection. But why not cut the girl a little slack while she grows up.
07/11/06 @ 08:38
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Michelle Wie would like to play a couple more LPGA events per year. With new events being added to the schedule, the LPGA could increase the number of exemptions non-members currently receive without even giving any special treatment to Michelle Wie. It is obvious that interest is much greater in LPGA events where Michelle plays.

But the LPGA wants to keep the number of events Michelle Wie plays a small as they can--until she commits to being a member with the associated requirements of a minimum of 20 events per year and a limit on the number of competing events in which she can play. At present the LPGA is pursuing a policy of doing everything they can to cut Michelle Wie down to size.

This fuss is not due to the players it is all due to the LPGA's interviewer doing everything possible to foment trouble--and I am sure it was done following the instructions of Carolyn Biven who wants to control everything jor else destroy what she cannot control.
07/11/06 @ 12:08
Comment from: george [Visitor]
*****
Comment from: Shanks [Member] · http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/shanks
I'm a little surprised at the dissection of a teenage girl's remarks immediately following the emotional letdown of a loss. What did you expect - the candor of a fully mature adult? Michelle Wie handles all the attention very well - for a 16 year old girl. Yes, she is a professional and her game is open for inspection. But why not cut the girl a little slack while she grows up.
*****

Shanks, have you joined the "she's only 16 brigade?"

So when will Michelle be grown up? 18? 19? 20? 21? Are Paula Creamer and Morgan Pressel and Brittany Lincicome not grown up yet? After what age should people stop cutting Michelle some slack?

You've got the answers, Shanks, it seems. Instruct us.

-George
07/11/06 @ 12:39
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jim, I read that LPGA interview. I didn't see any "fomenting" going on by the interviewer. The questions were all valid. It's people like you who like to blame all the problems of the world on the media.

I'm betting you're a big Dick Cheney fan.
07/11/06 @ 12:45
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Nice tee shot Tim. A 300 yd hornets nest is more impressive than an NST. My, but there ar some touchy Wierdos ot there.
07/11/06 @ 12:55
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Ain't that the truth.
07/11/06 @ 13:16
Comment from: Mike s [Visitor]
Comment from George:
"So when will Michelle be grown up? 18? 19? 20? 21? Are Paula Creamer and Morgan Pressel and Brittany Lincicome not grown up yet? After what age should people stop cutting Michelle some slack?"

Paula Creamer has grown up and is a class act, Brittany was misled by an idiot reporter, Morgan Pressel has not grown up yet, that is why I do not hold her crying and comments against her.

Mike s
07/11/06 @ 13:47
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Michelle Wie would like to play a couple more LPGA events per year. With new events being added to the schedule, the LPGA could increase the number of exemptions non-members currently receive without even giving any special treatment to Michelle Wie. It is obvious that interest is much greater in LPGA events where Michelle plays.

But the LPGA wants to keep the number of events Michelle Wie plays a small as they can--until she commits to being a member with the associated requirements of a minimum of 20 events per year and a limit on the number of competing events in which she can play. At present the LPGA is pursuing a policy of doing everything they can to cut Michelle Wie down to size.

This fuss is not due to the players it is all due to the LPGA's interviewer doing everything possible to foment trouble--and I am sure it was done following the instructions of Carolyn Biven who wants to control everything jor else destroy what she cannot control."

Who says Michelle ever wants to join the LPGA? She never has unless she can hold two cards at once. If Michelle could hold a PGA card, the best the LPGA could hope for is for Michelle to play in their Major Championships.

In fact if Michelle can make the cut and compete this year on the PGA tour, look for her schedule to be the four LPGA Majors only next season with the possibility of a Hawaii tournament. The rest of her schedule will be laden with PGA, European, Austrailian or Asian Tour events.

Ms. Bivens is well aware this is Michelle's goal. That is why the number of exemptions won't change.
07/11/06 @ 14:07
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
If Bubbles fails to acknowledge praise on the golf course, she's rude, plain and simple. We shouldn't be makind excuses for rudeness.
07/11/06 @ 14:59
Comment from: David [Visitor]
To all the people who claim that Brittany is jealous of Michelle: you're talking bollocks. Brittany has won an event; Michelle has won nada. Brittany may be a one-hit wonder, but Michelle is a winless wonder (with the word 'wonder' being very questionable) - which is better?

And I actually propose that we will see a lot more of Brittany in the future. Furthermore, please don't forget that she hasn't actually been a tour member for long, and is only 20.

Also, I will contradict Norman's claim by saying that Brittany is probably every bit as good as Michelle as a golfer. So is Paula Creamer, incidentally.

As regards to Morgan Pressel - well, it's blatantly obvious that she is jealous of Michelle, but I believe she is as good a player as Michelle. I also believe that Michelle is and has been jealous of Morgan in several ways. Most notably, Morgan won the U.S. Women's Amateur.

I haven't read all the replies here, but I believe that Norman views Michelle as the second best woman player in the world. I propose that she isn't even in the top ten, in reality (balls to those stupid Rolex Rankings). Hell, Pat Hurst, Cristie Kerr, Lorena Ochoa and Karrie Webb are all better. It's the ability to 'finish' that counts most - to win instead of blowing up in the most crucial stage of a tournament (although Hurst has often had trouble with this, I admit).

I totally agree with Tim - Michelle's act is getting tiresome, and her excuses, which often involve insulting her fellow players simultaneously, will probably leave her with few friends on the tour later on. Not because of jealousy, but because of Michelle's 'I'm superior to the LPGA Tour' attitude.

Moreover, Michelle is in danger of wasting her career on the men's tour, a stage on which she has no chance of ever winning.

I predict that she'll miss the cut at the John Deere Classic.
07/11/06 @ 16:26
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]
David

You do realize that Michelle made the Top 5 in every LPGA major so far and hasn't missed a cut on the LPGA since she was 13?

Meanwhile--Brittany has missed 8 cuts this year and she's 4 years OLDER.
07/11/06 @ 16:30
Comment from: Mike s [Visitor]
DAVID,
Michelle Wie won the 2003 Women's Amateur at the age of 13! I seriously doubt that she is jealous of Morgan Pressel for winning it at 17.

Mike s
07/11/06 @ 16:44
Comment from: Mike s [Visitor]
Retraction, !!! Michelle won the Amateur-Public Links, a match play format, but you get the point.
07/11/06 @ 16:56
Comment from: Christine [Visitor]
Don't tell me that because Michelle is "only 16" she is allowed to not aknowledge or reciprocate a "goot shot" comment. We heard from both Se Ri Pak and Brittany Lincicome that she acted this way. My 6 -- 6 not 16! son has enough manners and knows enough golf etiquette to act better than this. Wie is starting to come off like a spoiled brat. There is no excuse. Like others, I used to be a fan and admirer of Wie, but not so much now.
07/11/06 @ 17:42
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Michelle Wie is 16. 16-year olds say dumb things and don't accept responsibility for anything, regardless of whether or not they're multi-millionaires.

"Dad, it wasn't my fault. I didn't know there would be booze at the party..."

Anyway, falling off the Wie bandwagon is the act of a fair-weather fan. Anyone who is on the bandwagon has already drunk the kool-aid, Wie already is the greatest female golfer, results be damned. Deciding that results matter NOW is cowardly and hypocritcal. Why now? She has just as many wins now. If anything, she has MORE talent now. Why jump off? Peer pressure from Baldwin?


07/11/06 @ 17:45
Comment from: Jimmy [Visitor]
I thought this Michelle Wie prop may be of interest to you…They’re courtesy of Bodog.


How many rounds will Michelle Wie shoot under par at the John Deere Classic?

0 2/1

1 1/1

2 7/2

3 8/1

4 10/1

07/11/06 @ 18:13
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]
Christine,

No one is telling you that Michelle is "only 16", just don't be such a sheep and believe everything you read about her.

How about all the alleged mean comments Brittany made about Michelle ?
Are you mad about those ?
You're more mad about someone not saying anything over someone actually saying something rude? (ALLEGEDLY)

The same "snobby" crap was pulled on Tiger and the Williams sisters when they were getting an inordinate amount of attention. People always want to put people they are jealous of in a negative light.

There is even a picture of Brittany and Michelle embracing right after their round in one of the New Jersey papers --so I attribute all Brittany's snarky comments about Michelle to a very manipulative reporter.

07/11/06 @ 18:27
Comment from: George [Visitor]
*****
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]
[...]
I attribute all Brittany's snarky comments about Michelle to a very manipulative reporter.
*****

Sheryl, are you capable of any logical actions? Can you go to the LPGA site, where the full interviews can be found, and PASTE and ANALYZE which comments were "snarky?"

I looked through it, and frankly, I have two conclusions:

1. Brittany L. had no snarky comments.

2. Michelle W. really didn't appear to be whining.

I'd love to see whether anyone who is attacking the comments that these two golfers made following their match to actually parse and prove their allegations.

So Sheryl, why don't you stop bitching about "snarky" comments and actually prove your case.

You too, McDonald.

And just posting a link doesn't count. Do some actual research -- for a change. That's probably asking too much of either of you.


-George

07/11/06 @ 18:40
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]
George,

You are in dire need of help with your reading comprehension.

Please get a dictionary and look up
"allegedly" and while you're at it re-read my post again.

07/11/06 @ 19:36
Comment from: Rob H. [Visitor]
It is STILL to early. Michelle Wie probably has until age 18 before the question of novelty or skill is even close to being resolved.

She does play well though in general.

Making predictions before age 18 is just silly-or is the sign that some people are still uncomfortable with a female playing on the premiere professional golf tour. You'd think that modern times would change this attitude, but apparently not yet.

In a worst-case scenario, first she has to keep missing PGA tour cuts consecutively-once she hits age 18, it will have been two more years, and slowly, very slowly, she will lose her charm with the public that she has right now. Once the interest level goes away, then the sponsors will stop making exemptions for her and then, that will be that, so there is some pressure on her to perform at some point.

While it's great she made the cut on the men's tour in Asia, the PGA tour is a much higher skill level, but at the same time, if she can get it, it's that much more prestigious for her.
07/11/06 @ 19:47
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
As predicted, the Wie Warriors have reached new depths of inanity since Bubbles' last abject failure. Reading these posts is a lesson in cultish adulation. As the old song goes, the Wie-wie's are more to be pitied than censured.
07/11/06 @ 20:30
Comment from: Military_Golfer [Visitor]
I have only one comment ...... For anyone to say that MW is not a god-send to the LPGA or women's golf in general is simply idiotic.

I never watched nor dreamed i'd ever watch an LPGA event before Wie came into the picture.

I might add that the only reason I picked up a golf club to play was when the phenom Tiger checked-in to the scene.

If MW did not wear short tiltilating skirts, was short as a thumb, did not have the long ball, albeit with the grace of a swan as she walked down the fairway, nobody would give a flying wrip whether she won every week in the LPGA. People, wake-up! Image is everything. Thats just life.

MG
07/11/06 @ 21:03
Comment from: Femfan [Visitor]
Again
For those of you who don't seem to get it. Match Play is a different game. Annika, Tiger and many others besides MW put their game face on and talk very little to their opponents on the course. Others,like Chistina Kim, at the recent HSBC event, talk up a storm. It has nothing to do with being rude. It's you and your caddy against your competition.
In stroke play when your playing against the course, MW is very social with all her playing partners, men and women.
A lot of this is media hype... and it's perpetuated on both sides of the MW blogers bandwagon by small minded people who for some reason have a tough time in just letting her do her thing, without trying to overstate who said what to whom.







07/12/06 @ 02:51
Comment from: mikeINHawaii [Visitor]
"Michelle Wie's tiresome act alienating more and more" bloggers who have nothing of substance to write about and have to dump on an American trying to live the dream.
07/12/06 @ 03:39
Comment from: Visionary [Visitor]
Timmy, Alex, George, Judge Smells, and all you pathetic backseat golf instructors (Bloggers). If you all believe that MW is not the real deal, never going to be a champion, and grow up to be incapable of eloquently vocalizing her viewpoints, then pick your favorite LPGA professional and spend your time promoting her. It's utterly ridiculous that you hold a juvenile responsible to meet your twisted timeline of becoming a champion. Timmy Baldwin and the rest of you vultures "get a life".
07/12/06 @ 05:17
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Now comes another Wie Warrior, aptly misnamed "Visionary". He/she/it bitches like a whiney feminist, calling Bubbles a juvenile instead of an established professional. Hey Vis, your use of such tired cliches as "the real deal","and get a life" tells me that you should spend more time on the subject of English composition when you go back to high school in September. I won't be promoting my favorite LPGA golfer since I don't have a favorite. The pitty-pat game of the ladies does not appeal to me. Most of the LPGA members are even more inept than Bubbles at, excuse the cliche, "closing the deal."
07/12/06 @ 08:57
Comment from: hapahaole [Visitor]
Dear Military_Golfer,

It's Michelle's very image and charisma that infuriates the Wiehaters to no end. She takes away from their own heroines in the LPGA. The Wielovers just marvel at her attributes, golf and others, and pull for her in whatever she undertakes. Win? Eventually she will, everyone knows that even the Wiehaters. But Wie's success and popularity, albeit minus a win, grates on the jealous, which includes members of the LPGA, inept management, board members and some HOFers.

This is akin to when Nancy Lopez hit the scene, the difference being this girl hasn't won anything but her huge popularity is unquestioned. As one writer put it, "There is a palpable excitement whenever Michelle Wie plays. She is "lightning in a bottle". Bivens has no clue how to unleash it.
07/12/06 @ 10:46
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
Michelle Wie is a lot of things but charismatic is certainly not one of them. "Um, like, I think, like I really played, ya know, pretty awesome today." Don't confuse the ignorance of youth(not to mention non-existent communication skills), long legs and short skirts with charisma.

"This is akin to when Nancy Lopez hit the scene, the difference being this girl hasn't won anything..."

This is my point exactly, style, without substance, endless hype without suffiecient achievement. This is like saying that something is akin to the moon landing, without, of course the moon or the landing.

07/12/06 @ 11:55
Comment from: hapahaole [Visitor]
"Michelle Wie is a lot of things but charismatic is certainly not one of them." Ford


charisma 1: a personal magic arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure

Would you call the tens of thousands that flock to tournaments and who watch her on tv, and the millions of her fans worldwide who follow her every tournament just "blind followers"?
07/12/06 @ 12:44
Comment from: george [Visitor]
Sheryl, it's a simple question, but one you obviously can't answer since you did no research on this.

I asked you if you actually read the interview. Be honest and admit you were too lazy to actually read the interview at the LPGA site as of the time you made your post.

You told me to look up the use of the word "allegedly." The only problem is, you posted this -- WITHOUT using the word allegedly.

*****
so I attribute all Brittany's snarky comments about Michelle to a manipulative reporter
*****
IOW, you posted this as if it were a your conclusion. Nothing allegedly about it, the way you worded it.

Regardless of how they were coaxed from her, you described Brittany's comments as "snarky."

My question was, were they actually snarky comments? I challenged you and McDonald to get off your lazy behinds and go do some actual research and read the interview transcripts, not just some press accounts.

I made it simple enough for even you to figure out.

So for the 2nd time, Sheryl, back up your claim or go back to your coloring books.

-George
07/12/06 @ 13:09
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
hapahaole, I would not say that the Wie Warriors or any wannabe's are merely "blind follower." No, their eyes are open, but what they see is not reality. I would say that they are gullible, brain-washed, unsophisticated, intoxicated(with Wie koolaid), moronic, idiotic, imbecilic, and downright stupid, or a combination of any or all of these. And if you can't see this, you are also one of these poor souls.
07/12/06 @ 13:09
Comment from: hapahaole [Visitor]
Alex,

What is reality to you?
07/12/06 @ 13:32
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Ah, now Bubbles possesses "charisma"; this is a quality I haven't yet perceived. But, hapahaole, if you say so it must be true.
07/12/06 @ 13:34
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
I'd like to comment but not be dragged into all the bickering here.

What is becoming evident to me is that Wie is chasing headlines and notoriety - not a real benchmark in the golfing world. She will achieve nothing else by making a cut on the TOUR. Moreover, she likes her chances at the Deere b/c the big dogs are warming up for the Brit Open. She just wants to say she made the cut... but what then? It's not like she has a real chance to compete at that level!

Anyway, you can't blame the LPGA players for feeling jealous. A lot of hype is going into the Wie machine and a lot of it is embellished. Their are several LPGA phenoms of young age on that tour that have won tournaments that Wie has competed in. They are right in feeling slighted. Talents such as Creamer, Pressel etc. are developing as players too. Does anyone think they may continue to improve and remain dominant and exceed Wie?
07/12/06 @ 14:33
Comment from: fda [Visitor]
the difference between men and women in golf is that women can't score on a men's course. if you have to hit a 4iron or 5wood to a par 4, you can't compete because you can't score.
ask annika, she got her ass handed to her when she played a pga tour event.
2 birdies in 2 full rounds.
now all i have to say is, last year i watched michelle wie get 7 birdies in one pga tour round. there are pga tours players who have their cards and have yet to score 7 birdies in one round. she really is a phenom, just like tiger was. imagine, one more inch in height and 10 more pounds of muscle,
she'll be hitting it 340yds.
oh, she's charismatic, tall & beautiful too.
07/12/06 @ 14:34
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
fda;

On a surface level, you may seem right. If that is the case, however, then why isn't she dominating the women's tour? She is supposedly heads and shoulders above them - right?
07/12/06 @ 14:40
Comment from: fda [Visitor]
oh, one other thing.
every lpga tour player will ultimately thank michelle for raising the purses at lpga tour events in the future. no one else has enough charisma or talent to do that except michelle. once she wins, women's golf will change. i sure hope she never joins the lpga tour. she will dominate women's golf without an lpga tour card.

also, i read something about brittany l. being just as long as michelle. that's total bullsh*t. michelle hit drives for a smaller course. so obviously, they were hitting the same clubs going to the green. brittany can't hit her driver more than 290yds. michelle can hit it 325yds. all of this is lpga propaganda to try and reduce michelle's talent. and that guy jaime diaz is an idiot.
07/12/06 @ 14:50
Comment from: fda [Visitor]
to five angels

how can she dominate when she is restricted to only 6 lpga tournaments a year? she's in high school and she comes out and places top tree in 3 lpga majors. who does these things but a phenom. if she played full time, she would dominate. the fools at the lpga should have given her a card by now. i hope she never joins that tour.
07/12/06 @ 14:54
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
Glad to see you're not taking this personal. :)

I don't think anyone is purposely trying to claim Wie is not a great talent. In my case, I enjoy watching her and you are correct, she is a major draw to any event she enters. This will wane, however, if her talent doesn't equate to the dominance the hype has set for her.

Think John Daly only a lot younger and prettier... kind of.
07/12/06 @ 14:57
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
Oh, by the way - golf seems overly concerned with length off the tee. Ms Wie and her fans better start coming to grips with fact that she needs have better shots and short game skills if she intends to win at any point.

Just so you get my point, fda, there's other young talent that has been competing at a very high level on the lpga too. Wie is not alone, whether you want ot admit it or not.
07/12/06 @ 15:01
Comment from: gimp [Visitor]
right... you know "several females" don't like wie, so there's obviously no gender bias. Like I have a few friends who say 'nigger'... I can't possible be racist.

You are a bitter, bitter man. All you do is rag on Wie for selling out but the only reason you do so is because you know it gets you hits. Pretty clever.

Michelle Wie is having fun doing what she wants to do. Who would be stupid enough to turn down millions of dollars in endorsements and the opportunity to play in the games she does? Why? So she can do things the "right" way, according to a bunch of elitist balding old farts? Whatever crimes she is committing in your head, she is doing so much more for the game by hooking so many new young fans into the game for life.
07/12/06 @ 15:38
Comment from: Guardian Angel [Visitor]
Please pardon five angels, she is on medication to cure her passive/aggressive mean spiritedness. The most recent of this so called young talent setting herself up for comparison with Michelle Wie was ... Morgan Pressel. I don't think she fared very well in tournaments where they both competed. Five Angels, my point is that you can hype or tout other young, old, fat or whatever talents you want. But you feel need to denigrate Michelle Wie in the process. Touting other talents won't get you any attention. Noone cares. You have to bring in Michelle Wie to get noticed. Then, you have to denigrate Michelle Wie, all the while saying she is a great talent. How phony your argument becomes. Therein lies the cynicism of Wie fans who can see through those phony arguments advanced by jealouse Wie critics. (please note I used Wie critics, not bashers)
07/12/06 @ 16:06
Comment from: reader [Visitor]
I am beginning to think that the author of the blog intended to draw more fans for Michelle Wie. The more fanatic some critics get, the more people feel compelled to come out and show support for her.
07/12/06 @ 16:21
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Fda,

LOL -- you've been snookered. Bubbles doesn't hit her drives anywhere close to 325. Just check out what her averages have been in the PGA events she has played -- she has always been near the bottom of the pack.

By the way, the LONGEST driver on the men's tour, Bubba Watson, is only averaging about 325.
07/12/06 @ 16:26
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
I guess I don't get it, Guardian. You see denigration, I see the bottom line. Comparatively, Creamer is 2/3 years older. Pressel is 1. BL is, what, a whopping 4 yrs older? Pressel finished 2nd in the 05 Open - how about Wie? She is a phenom, no question, but she hasn't proved herself completely worthy of a #2 ranking and,certainly, not the top billing at every turn. All I am saying is that some of the ladies have already proven they are the real deal. Not Wie. Not yet.
07/12/06 @ 16:37
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
Judge, thank you for bringing some facts to the table. Please give my regards to Carl Spackler...
07/12/06 @ 16:45
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Five,

Sorry, no can do. Carl is currently abroad caddying for the Dalai Lama.
07/12/06 @ 17:45
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Judge Smails, For a newbie, this guy fda has shown a lot of promise as an Alan Cup competitor. His post about Bubbles being tall, charismatic, and beautiful, BUT she's going to grow another inch and put on ten pounds of muscle and start driving the ball 340 yards is indeed a neo-classic. We'll see in the future if this was a one-time effort or if fda is the real deal.
07/12/06 @ 18:20
Comment from: George [Visitor]
FDA:

**and that guy jaime diaz is an idiot.**

So is Jaime Diaz an idiot, FDA? Let's look at his assessment of Wie's ability and his conclusion in his 7-14-06 Golf Digest column.

*****
Lincicome, 20, who led the LPGA in driving distance last season and is averaging 282 yards this year, consistently stayed with Wie off the tee and hit the same clubs from the same distances. It wasn't that Wie lost the match, 4 and 3. It was that Wie's game, often trumpeted as transcendent, was so similar in scale to Lincicome's.
*****
*****
That Wie hasn't won a tournament since the 2003 U.S. Women's Public Links shouldn't be cause for alarm. Her consistently high finishes, particularly in all three of this year's women's majors, validate her dedication to maximizing an ability and technique never before seen in a young woman. Her putting will get better as she gives it more attention. Learning to close out tournaments will probably be the hardest lesson of all, but she's 16. There's time.
*****
*****
Both the conversations and concessions in all of Wie's matches were minimal, and the youngster's [Wie's] countenance was grim. It seems a high price to pay for pursuing a quixotic dream.

If [Wie] becomes the best female player, she'll be well-positioned to accept sponsor's exemptions on the PGA Tour. What's more important is that she get on with making history as a champion, not as a novelty.
*****

Folks like myself who are Wie skeptics -- I am not a Wie basher, look up my posts -- have to deal with this blind devotion to Wie on these boards all the time.

It's not Michelle who is the problem. She is attempting to pursue a dream and make money doing it. That's fantastic. Wie clearly has plenty of talent. There's no doubt about it.

But say anything negative, even if it is constructive criticism for Michelle Wie from a seasoned golf writer such as Jaime Diaz, and all of a sudden one becomes an idiot. Diaz clearly is a Wie supporter, and is simply suggesting a path for her that would, in his view, help her succeed.

The real problem is the Wie fanatics who cannot stand it when even one day passes where Wie is not the object of complete adoration on all sides.

FDA is so obsessed a fan that FDA believes the LPGA is engaged in a conspiracy to suggest Brittany Lincicome can out-drive Michelle Wie.

Well, check it out. In their match, Lincicome did in fact out-drive Michelle Wie much of the time. That's been documented. Diaz stated it. Other writers stated it. It was apparent to all rational witnesses to the event. It is not propoganda.

I believe FDA is the typical Wie Warrior, in the mold of June, Sheryl, Norman, Coulthard, 1-putt, and so forth. They are crazed fanatics who will twist statistics and the truth to suit their fantasies. The Wie Warriors prowl as relentlessly as jackals in search of any perceived morsel of criticism directed at their hero.

They are the problems, not Michelle.

-George
07/12/06 @ 18:46
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
I don't think empiric means what you think it means. If you're going with the definition that empiric is originating from observation or experiment, you should actually give us some actual observations.

But maybe you're going with the definition that it is being or befitting a quack or charlattan. The latter definition would be more in keeping with most of the Travel Golf bloggers.
07/12/06 @ 21:37
Comment from: Military_Golfer [Visitor]
What George and Judge Smails don't understand about statistics is you can use it to justify any claim. The fact that Lincicome may have outdriven MW on average at the HSBC does not mean she is a longer hitter. It is quite possible "as any experienced golfer worthy of an intelligent opinion would know" .... to hit your driver at 100% or scale it down to 80% to fit your choice on approach shots. Driving distance does not mean using the driver. If you tee of with a putter, it would still count toward your driving distance.

George and J Smails also need o understand that because you get beat by someone on a single 18 hole round does not mean you are better. If we look deeper into their records in the events they have both played, has Lincicome ever finished ahead of MW this year, i.e. since she turned pro?

Wie-warriors, lets be serious, do you really believe yourselves when you suggest MW is not well on her way to dominating the LPGA? Come-on! the girl has been finishing in the top 5 in majors. Be serious, MW has shown much more reliable consistency than anyone on the LPGA tour this year.

If you truly believe Lincicome is a better golfer, are you willing to put your money down on her over MW in the womens open in a couple of weeks. .... ?????

that's what I thought! MW hands down.

MG
07/13/06 @ 02:32
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, Alex, fda is definitely the real, unreal deal. Fda . . . hmm, maybe he works for the Food and Drug Administration. After all, he seems to possess all the prerequisites for being a government bureaucrat. I bet he could bury any good citizen in red tape and quite innocently give him the run-around for months.

By the way, Alex, how did that round of golf you mentioned go?
07/13/06 @ 05:38
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Ah, I see, Bubbles was only hitting at 80%. Next the Wiemen will be telling us that as soon as she lets out a little shaft she'll be hitting it 420 and winning the men's division of the Remax Long Drive Competition.
07/13/06 @ 05:40
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Judge Smails, 87, close to my 14 handicap. Did you check out the post by Military-Golfer? Another up-and-comer for the Cup. I tell you. they're everywhere!
07/13/06 @ 06:24
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jenney -- good one
07/13/06 @ 07:43
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
I think this article addresses the statistics and PGA comparisons with some finality:

http://www.golfdigest.com/newsandtour/theskinny/
07/13/06 @ 10:26
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Thank you, five angels, if the Wiemen can grasp the concept of copying and pasting, perhaps we'll make some pinheadway.

Alex, yes, I have my eye on Military-Golfer.
07/13/06 @ 12:38
Comment from: five angels [Visitor]
My pleasure, Judge.

By the way, Wie is +5 so far. Doesn't look like the cut is in the cards again.

Interesting points in that article. I never really considered that Wie was building most of her stats and reputation on her home course. She is a very great golfer, but I think she easily behind Creamer, Annika, and Lochoa.
07/13/06 @ 15:29
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
Michelle's driving distance in her 4 previous attempts to qualify on the PGA tour is 274.5 yards. Sounds impressive doesn't it, well think again, it would actually tie her for 159th on tour. Her distance and overall game have been greatly exaggerated. If the argument over Michelle trying to make it in the men'a game were a prize fight, it would be stopped due to excessive punishment. My advice to Michelle is to give up this folly and concentrate on winning something on the LPGA tour.
07/13/06 @ 23:30

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