« Nick Faldo and Tiger Woods deliciously paired at British OpenMichelle Wie, withdrawing from John Deere Classic, needs to get tougher if she wants to play with the big boys »

89 comments

Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Damn, Timmy, I predicted four hours, you got in in less than one!
07/14/06 @ 19:17
Comment from: Jay [Visitor]
You are a funny guy. You have a sense of humor like 'Chandler' in Friends.
You must be popular among women.

That being said, you should not laugh at people having their bad days. President G.W.H. Bush (senior) collapsed and vomited on the Japanese prime minister. Every one has bad days now and then.

This week was just one of the 'bad days' for Wie. Give her a break, man...

Wait for her to bounce back in the Old Continent.
07/14/06 @ 19:19
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Maybe she'll start to pack a bottle of "fake puke" in her bag for a more realistic effect.
07/14/06 @ 19:31
Comment from: AhhSoo [Visitor]
I did post it several blogs ago (after the McDonald's, I think) that Michelle seems to be suffering from a "lack of stamina" issue. Suggested that she insert a running or jogging regimen in her exercise routine. I believe that JC commented on my post regarding this topic.

Noticed that she has been fading on Sundays. This has been apparent in several tournaments going back to the 2005 US Open.
07/14/06 @ 19:39
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Maybe she'll start to pack a bottle of "fake puke" in her bag for a more realistic effect.
07/14/06 @ 19:31

You sir, are without a doubt, the most asinine idiot alive.

Apparently you have no shame. I really do feel sorry for you.
07/14/06 @ 20:07
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
The first thing that occurred to me is that it might be a stress-induced reaction. Let's see if it happens again in the future.
07/14/06 @ 20:35
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
I kind of like that "fake puke" deal. Jane Smiley once said the best humor was mean-spirited.



07/14/06 @ 21:18
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Faux vomit? Deceitful disgorgement?
07/14/06 @ 22:01
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
I'm in NW Indiana right now. It was hot today, but still not too much so for me to be able to walk 18 and carry my clubs.

Gotta question the "timeliness" of MW's illness today.
07/14/06 @ 22:05
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Feigned, fictitious effluvium
07/14/06 @ 22:23
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
The first thing that occurred to me is that it might be a stress-induced reaction. Let's see if it happens again in the future."

She was one of five players who withdrew from problems with the heat and seven other players were treated for heat stroke symptoms and continued to play.

Her caddy tried to get her to withdraw on the fifth hole and Michelle insisted on continuing for the people in the gallery. Finally BJ an Bo stepped in and talked her out of the match after the ninth.

Hey it happens to everyone at one time or another. Recently I withdrew from a match in the Philippines because I was coming down with heat stroke. Two shots out of the lead with seven to play in the 2nd round and I looked at my Filipino caddy and said that is enough. The Med tent was full by the time I got there and it took two bags of IVs to get me hydrated again.

In Michelle's match today it was 95 degrees with 90 percent humidity. That is a hell of a double digit heat index.

07/14/06 @ 23:40
Comment from: Plus1 [Visitor]
Tim McDonald, my hat is off to you! It is so refreshing to find some un-pussified members in the media that will speak the truth about the side show that has become Wie's sponsor's exemptions/super-flops on the PGA tour. The media is so afraid to just stand up and say, "Look, she can't play at this level and does not belong out here now"...which is clearly the case. Take gender out of it and no male would get the chances she has with such consistent and grand failures.

If she were to EARN her way out there through Monday qualifiers or by any other legitimate method, like Q-School, I would be one of her biggest fans because she would absolutely deserve to be there. However this is not the case.

Every time she gets a sponsor's exemption there is one guy working his ass off to make a living playing golf who gets royally screwed out of a chance for a paycheck that week. All so the sponsor can pull a cheap-ass PR stunt, pathetically using political correctness as a cover from criticism.

Wie hasn't even won on the LPGA tour yet and if she can't win there, not dominate, just bring home one W, then the PGA tour is well above her current level. She may be there one day but she clearly is not now.

Before all you crazy femi-nazi liberals go off the deep end thinking I am some bigoted pig, know that I lead the charge to bring minorities into my traditionally white fraternity in college, my favorite boss of all time (before I started my own businesses) was an African-American Woman, and I employ women in labor-intensive positions in my businesses which, nationally, are fewer than 1% female. In short, in my ball park, if you can hold your own at the plate, you can play ball in my ballpark regardless of gender, age, race, you name it.

Wie has not proven that she can play ball in a PGA Tour ball park. Time to send her down to the minors and let her earn her way up.
07/14/06 @ 23:41
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member]
Feigned, fictitious effluvium"

How about a moronic statement?

NWS for the John Deere area:

HOT AND HUMID CONDITIONS WILL AFFECT THE AREA SATURDAY THROUGH
WEDNESDAY. AFTERNOON TEMPERATURES ARE FORECAST TO BE IN THE MID TO
UPPER 90S THIS WEEKEND...AND ALONG WITH THE HUMIDITY...HEAT INDEX
VALUES MAY REACH 105 TO 110 DEGREES. ALSO...DUE TO THE HUMIDITY...
NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES WILL LINGER IN THE 70S ACROSS MUCH OF THE
AREA...PROVIDING LITTLE RELIEF FROM THE DAYTIME HEAT. EXCESSIVE HEAT
CAN BE DEADLY...BE PREPARED TO KEEP COOL AND HYDRATED.
07/14/06 @ 23:46
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
One-Putt you are a pussy! 88 degrees was the temperature. You an I both know that the conditions were not oppressive. She got sick, fine, it really is no matter as from the moment she teed off she was never in contention.
07/15/06 @ 01:24
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
Price of a two day pass= $120

"You go girl" Supportive Michelle Wie button= $10

All caps weather condition excuse= Priceless
07/15/06 @ 01:28
Comment from: Jenny [Visitor]
McDonald I don't know who's a bigger jerk, you or the guy who played with her:

"I saw she was hurting, but she never said anything," Gove said. "And she was walking real slow, which I thought was inconsiderate again because we're trying to keep up. If we get on the clock again, that's painful."

"She just said, `I'm going to withdraw,' which was good because she was holding us up again," said Jeff Gove, one of Wie's playing partners. Gove missed the cut with a 1-over 143.



07/15/06 @ 01:48
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Gove was right: everyone has a DUTY to maintain the pace of play. Do you not know that if they're put on the clock and don't get back into position, the whole group is penalized, not just the slow individual?

One-putt,

You're absolutely wrong. The tournament officials said that NO other players were treated for the symptoms of heat stroke. And certainly, the other withdrawals had nothing to do with it.
07/15/06 @ 01:59
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
Jenny,

Maybe the guy is trying to make a living and tired of being paired with a side show "freak". He qualified for the tourney while she didn't
07/15/06 @ 03:07
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
One-Putt you are a pussy! 88 degrees was the temperature. You an I both know that the conditions were not oppressive. She got sick, fine, it really is no matter as from the moment she teed off she was never in contention."

Can we meet somewhere so I can rip off your head and piss down your throat?
07/15/06 @ 03:59
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
At 88 degrees and 90 percent humidity the heat index is 113 degrees.
07/15/06 @ 04:04
Comment from: Military_Golfer [Visitor]
Interesting commentary folks! It's hot, it's not.

Clearly MW does not have the conditioning to play 4 or 5 weeks in a row of tournaments. It is true she better hit the gym. She is going to learn fast, people are out there working for the 4 days. It's not all about smiling and waving to the fans from tee to green.

Kasr is right in saying she has been shoved out of the tent and there is no turning back. The worst thing that can happen to her is if she turns pro now. I don't believe she is ready yet for the week in week out dog-fights of a por's life. She won't be able to handle the now lofty fan and sponsor expectations.

As for the debates on weather, heat, puking, faking etc. Drop it guys, we are all judging while we type the key pad in an air conditioned room with a cool drink within arm's length.

MG
07/15/06 @ 04:38
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
one-putt

HOT??? HEAT INDEX ???
I'm playing today and the forcast is for 89 degrees with 60%. I'll let you know if that is oppressive when I get back.

********************

kasr: You are exactly right and that is what we have all been saying for the past 2 years. But nobody listened. Now she is screwed. She will have a hard time winning because she never learned how to win against peers of the same age, she started right at the top, and is working her way down. It has been proven, time after time, starting at the bottom and working your way UP, will produce much better results.
07/15/06 @ 05:36
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One-Putt.... coming down with Heat Stroke. Give me a break. You either have it or you don't. Do folks just make stuff up to throw on here???? That's like saying I was coming down with a cold but didn't get it.... doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
07/15/06 @ 06:08
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One-Putt... you again with the heat comment.... The weather report you referenced just makes it that much more interesting that MW didn't prepare herself. After all.. she is a PROFESSIONAL.
07/15/06 @ 06:11
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jenny.... this is their lively hood... Wouldn't you complain if a "co-worker" was doing something that affected you in a negative way.... Somehow, I think you would as would most people.
07/15/06 @ 06:14
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One_putt... Thought you might like to know about the heat since you keep making references to it....

Signs and Symptoms of heat exhaustion include:

Cool, clammy, pale skin
Sweating
Dry mouth
Fatigue, weakness
Dizziness
Headache
Nausea, sometimes vomiting
Muscle cramps
Weak and rapid pulse


Heat stroke, unlike heat exhaustion, strikes suddenly, with little warning. When the body's cooling system fails, the body's temperature rises fast. This creates an emergency condition.

Signs of heat stroke include:

Very high temperature (104 degrees F or higher)
Hot, dry, red skin
No sweating
Deep breathing and fast pulse - then shallow breathing and weak pulse
Dilated pupils
Confusion, delirium, hallucinations
Convulsions
Loss of consciousness
07/15/06 @ 06:20
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One_putt... Thought you might like to know about the heat since you keep making references to it...."

Good information for those golfers JR who will be out in the Midwest this weekend.

Comment from: John D [Visitor]
one-putt

"HOT??? HEAT INDEX ???
I'm playing today and the forcast is for 89 degrees with 60%. I'll let you know if that is oppressive when I get back."

Are you walking the course today John D?

The heat index for your round will be 97 degrees, 16 degrees cooler than the John Deere yesterday and 21 degrees cooler than the forecast at the Deere today..





07/15/06 @ 06:30
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Military,

More points for you! Bubbles is already a professional; she turned pro quite a while ago.
07/15/06 @ 08:13
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
JR: I guess that's why Gove didn't make the cut? Or maybe Gove should toughen up if he wants to play with the big boys and learn how to deal with the pressures of playing on the PGA. Maybe Gove should go back to the amateurs and learn how to win first. He better watch out or all his excuses will start to alienate everyone.

Gee I don't remember Michelle Wie preventing him from qualifying for Cialis, Barclays, St. Judes, Byron Nelson, Zurich Classic, Pebble Beach, or Buick Invitational this year. Oh yeah, he did that all by himself.
07/15/06 @ 09:03
Comment from: Evil Hater [Visitor]
Defeat for Wie and her bolshevik handlers spells victory for what is left of civilization. Affirmative Action fails while meritocracy prevails, as it SHOULD in any athletic endeavor. Hail Nature!

Only a degenerate communist could be a Michelle Wie fan.
07/15/06 @ 09:12
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
My hat is off to the caddies. There the tough ones.
07/15/06 @ 09:36
Comment from: Plus1 [Visitor]
JR. I pulled up the telecast on Tivo this morning to see what the actual temp/humidity was, according to USA. 88 Degrees and 62% humidity when the telecast came on at 2pm.

Where does that leave the heat index?

The humidity there is in the mid to high 60% arena. Click this link and see: http://search.weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USIL1091.html

At 69% humidity (that's a great number) you can add about 4 degrees to the actual temprature...not the 115 degree crap you are spouting.

If you can't take the heat...
07/15/06 @ 10:37
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
One-Putt, The figures that Plus1 gave were similar to mine. According to the US Meteorological Survey, the times/temps/humidity readings for Silvis, Il were as follows: 2:00PM/87F/53%, 3:00PM/88F/49%, 4:00PM/89/50%. Was it warm? Sure, it's SUMMER for goodness sake! Unbearable? Not even close. Was it 95F with 90% humidity? Nowhere near. It never gets like that in the Midwest, no matter who says it does.
07/15/06 @ 11:07
Comment from: Evil Hater [Visitor]
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
JR: I guess that's why Gove didn't make the cut? Or maybe Gove should toughen up if he wants to play with the big boys and learn how to deal with the pressures of playing on the PGA. Maybe Gove should go back to the amateurs and learn how to win first. He better watch out or all his excuses will start to alienate everyone.

Gee I don't remember Michelle Wie preventing him from qualifying for Cialis, Barclays, St. Judes, Byron Nelson, Zurich Classic, Pebble Beach, or Buick Invitational this year. Oh yeah, he did that all by himself.
07/15/06 @ 09:03


DEAR BOZO,

Check your facts. Jeff Gove is a PGA Tour member by virtue of finishing in 20th position on the Nationwide Tour last year. He most certainly did that all by himself.

I am so sick of communists who don't know that they are communists.

07/15/06 @ 12:20
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jenney M... Gove EARNED his card and is currently close to the top 100 on the money list with over $500,000 in earnings. ie. he is earning his living playing on the PGA tour.
07/15/06 @ 12:32
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, and unlike Bubbles, Gove EARNED his place on tour; no one rolls out red carpets for him.

Don't you just love these feminist shrews like Jenny? Criticize anyone with ovaries and they want to boil you in oil.

Hey, Jenny, go bake some cookies.
07/15/06 @ 13:58
Comment from: Steve [Visitor]
Too bad Michelle had problems with the heat. The LPGA players at Jamie Farr are currently playing in similar conditions. Humidity 5 degrees higher, temperature 4 degrees lower. I wonder how many of them will withdraw.
07/15/06 @ 14:32
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]

Are you walking the course today John D?

Yes I did...I use a pull cart, but that is more work than Wie-Wee did. But then again I only shot 79.
07/15/06 @ 15:20
Comment from: Underpar [Visitor]
Judge Smails...AMEN BROTHER!!!! To paraphase the words of Doc Holiday in the film Tombstone" It would appear that the strain was much more than Bubbles could bear."
07/15/06 @ 16:50
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
One-Putt said:

How about a moronic statement?

NWS for the John Deere area:

HOT AND HUMID CONDITIONS WILL AFFECT THE AREA SATURDAY THROUGH
WEDNESDAY. AFTERNOON TEMPERATURES ARE FORECAST TO BE IN THE MID TO
UPPER 90S THIS WEEKEND...AND ALONG WITH THE HUMIDITY...HEAT INDEX
VALUES MAY REACH 105 TO 110 DEGREES.

......................................

Saturday thru Wednesday. Didn't M.W. play on Friday? That's right, it was worse today than yesterday and it will be even hotter tomorrow. How many players do you think will drop out this weekend because of the heat?

The point is, it wasn't as hot on Friday, One-Putt, you moron!
07/15/06 @ 21:07
Comment from: Rob Durkee, North Hollywood [Visitor]
Everybody covering the John Deere Classic has failed to point out the most important aspect...that the top 17 men's money winners aren't participating. In fact, 27 of the top 30 money winners aren't participating.
07/16/06 @ 00:29
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
Gove is making lame excuses for his poor play. When Michelle Wie says she tried her best, people don't cut her any slack and accuse of alienating people and making too many excuses.

Meanwhile Gove acts like a whiney baby saying that, "We definitely had a tougher go than the rest of the guys, which isn't fair." Boo hoo. Life is fair, princess. If Michelle Wie had said anything like that, you'd be burning her on a stake.

Well since Gove earned his card, you'd think he'd act like more of a professional. Gove should toughen up if he wants to play with the big boys. It's not like Daisuke Maruyama, who also was in Michelle's group, failed to make the cut.

If you want to talk about money, Michelle Wie has made $449,254 in career tournament earnings. And last time I checked, Gove didn't have millions of dollars in endorsements. And really what is more important, what a golfer makes from playing on the PGA or how much money they make for the PGA? You can whine and cry like Gove, but really Michelle Wie isn't going away any time soon. Sweet isn't it...

It's the Golden Rule: She who has the gold rules. And there's nothing Communist about that.
07/16/06 @ 04:24
Comment from: alan m [Visitor]
Alex
If you do a little research you will find that when Wie was playing the temperature was actually in the high 90's. The humidity was low.
You aren't good with facts even those that you can verify.
Still wasting your precious time on these bloggs. Your game must be suffering.
I see you are still pulling people up for their grammer. Who gives s sh*t about grammer.

Alan m
07/16/06 @ 06:01
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
Wanna know the facts?

Jeff Gove hasn't been googled this much in his entire life, despite being pro 12 years.

Very few people usually care about the John Deere Classic.

Tim McDonald's recent non-Wie posts have 0-15 comments with the grand total of 33 comments for 6 posts.

Tim McDonald's recent Wie posts have 23-117 comments. 3 Wie posts generated 185 reponses... 186 at this point.

What I love is how all the Wie haters actually are increasing the amount of attention Michelle Wie gets. Keep up the good work.
07/16/06 @ 06:01
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jenney M... does any of your last post mean anything... I'm sure Jeff Gove is more concerned with making cuts and earning a living than having folks search for information concerning him on the internet. Also, if MW fanatics woulds stop making such asinine statements that would cut down considerably on the replies to them.....
07/16/06 @ 07:09
Comment from: Jenney M [Visitor]
JR as usual, you and your ilk don't get it. Did I say anything that wasn't true?

I think your comment is pretty insulting to Gove. Gove isn't just trying to "earn a living" as you put it, rather he like everyone else is actually trying to win. In Gove's own words, "Making a cut is not an accomplishment, in my mind. You're here to win the tournament."

At any rate, I wasn't saying that Gove should be concerned with people googling him, rather he's obviously not that consequential along with a lot of other people who are close to the top 100 earnings list on the PGA.

Nobody goes to a PGA tournament to see Jeff Gove or many other players like him. And even Mickelson only generates 15 responses for Tim McDonald's blog.

However, Michelle Wie seems to generate so much interest... and really don't feel obliged to reply, though I know you can't help yourself.

In the PGA, people get sponsorship exemptions all the time. People also fail to make the cut. And it usually take a number of times to make the cut in a PGA tournament. For example it took Tiger Woods 8 attempts to make the cut. There are also many PGA tour players who are never in contention to actually win.

So after all that, I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about Michelle Wie trying to make the cut. And I think it's a red herring to make this about her age and gender. She obviously wants to try and the powers that be want to let her.

And really all your hating won't change that, but it does amuse me so.
07/16/06 @ 08:35
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
alan, How's it going, good buddy? I'm glad that the men in the white coats with the straitjackets haven't caught up with you yet. As a matter of fact, I did check on the temperature and humidity conditions at Silvis, Illinois for 14 July 2006. I documented the figures on this blog on 15 July 2006 at 11:07 AM. My source was the US Meteorological Survey. Yours might well have been your local psychic Gypsy, a ouija board, or the comic pages of the Daily Telegraph. When Bubbles started and finshed her round of nine holes on Friday the temperature was 88-89F and the humidity was in the 50% range. The fact that you don't, as you say, give a s**t for grammar is easily seen by that which is written in your posts. Incidentally, Big Al,that's grammar with two "A's", not one. You know, alan, there are quite a few other dunces posting on these blogs who are trying to steal your thunder. But just when it looks like some other dumdum is going to hit the top of the leaderboard, you come sweeping down the stretch like Whirlaway and retain the brass ring. You are truly an immortal, one of a kind, and that's why the Cup bears your name.
07/16/06 @ 08:55
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Jenny M.... first off, it goes without saying that everyone wants to win... Now, I am not a WieHater as you call them but I am ardently against all of the MW fans who have no grasp on reality as it pertains to MW.... (that means you).... Also, what does being googled have to do with being a golfer??? nothing.
07/16/06 @ 10:38
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jenney, you're right that Gove is coming across as a whiner and that Wie would have been criticized if she had made similar statements. That's the burden she pays for her fame.

The difference, of course, is that Gove is just a journeyman trying to make it on the PGA Tour -- what else can he do, try for the LPGA? -- whereas Wie has other avenues open to her and her stunt of trying to make a cut on the tour is exactly that - a stunt. You make the case when you point out the difference in endorsement earnings.

She's clearly out of her league when she plays with the men, and I think she found that out Friday. Yes, I felt sorry for her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she backed off and concentrated on playing where she should be -- with the women - whether that means select LPGA tournaments or whatever.

Then, IF she dominates and has no other worlds to conquer, she can try to compete with the men, after she matures, gets stronger, becomes more fit and learns how to win. If she does not make that decision, she will continue to remain a controversial and self-serving, though still entertaining, sideshow.
07/16/06 @ 10:43
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Alex,

Yes, Alan may be serving notice that his best days are not yet behind him. This just may be the initiation of a comeback, inspired by the increased Alan Cup competition and all the attention it's receiving. Alan definitely may crave the slimelight.

Now, the only question is, will Alan be able to regain his old form? Or, has he irretrievably lost his edge?

Jenny,

Again, you're making my point for me. Gove doesn't have all the benefits Bubbles does: endorsements, favorable treatment, attention, etc. Thus, he has every reason to resent the fact that this interloper is impacting upon his endeavors. In fact, he probably would really like to say that she just doesn't belong there but doesn't want to be the next Vijay Singh.

Anyway, Jenny, you are the Bubbles of the Alan Cup Competition, only, you're a real contender!
07/16/06 @ 13:48
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Jenny M, save your efforts. Timm is one of the self serving multitude along with ALex, J.Smails and the rest of the whiners.

All their bleating won't change what is going to happen and I believe that is what scares them.

In the mean time, Natalie Gulbis is looking like a small runaway on the present Tournament of the LPGA. If she wins, it'll be 4 years in the making. And while I am happy for Gulbis,I suspect that is the kind of performance Tim, JS, Alex and the rest of the yahoo's would rather watch. Paint drying is more exciting.
No wall to wall people there. Very little excitement either.

07/16/06 @ 15:32
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jenney, I'm not so sure she's so great for golf like so many people say. Yes, she attracts a lot of attention on the game, but she alienates a lot of people at the same time. And, while even those people she alienates tend to tune in to see her -- for now -- this infatuation won't last forever.

It's my belief she's taking a lot of integrity out of the game. Short-term profits are pouring in, but this whole deal leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for many others.

As for Joe Ogilvie, it's hard to take him seriously. His idols are Bill Gates and Warren Buffett -- gee, it isn't surprising to see money is the focus around which his viewpoint revolves.

And yes, Putt-4-par, I am THOROUGHLY enjoying Natalie Gulbis leading whatever that LPGA tournament is I'm watching.

07/16/06 @ 16:37
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member]

It's my belief she's taking a lot of integrity out of the game.

I just have to ask YOU, Tim : How do you figure that she is taking away from the integrity of the game?
That is such a throw away statement. Enlighten us, Tim.

As for Natalie leading, she is another one of those players that won so much in the amateurs and failed to produce, right up there with your Amateur poster child, Morgan Pressel.
07/16/06 @ 17:11
Comment from: alan m [Visitor]
Alex
What was the url of the site you used.
www.weather.com had the temperature in the high 90's between 2pm and 4pm.
I still think you are wrong, Good buddy- grammer policeman.
Alan m
07/16/06 @ 20:30
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
alan m, You can look up detailed information on temperature and humidity for any city in the world at www. weatherunderground.com The info for US cities is supplied by the US Meteorological Survey. The city to be entered can be either Moline or Silvis, Il since the weather center is the same for both cities. The date to be certified is July 14, 2006. At the bottom of the page, hourly data is printed. You will find that I did not misrepresent any facts. And alan, when you find out that I was in fact correct, it would be nice if you will admit it. You see, Big Al, I live fairly close to the area where the John Deere was being contested. Therefore I knew that some of the nonsense being blogged like 95F and 90% humidity was nothing but BS. Just read it and weep, al baby. Alex is never wrong.
07/16/06 @ 21:12
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Wow, Alan sure knows how to rack up those points fast. He is starting to make the other contenders seem like neophytes.

Tim,

I actually agree with you here. It raised my eyebrows also when I read that Gates and Buffet were Ogilvie's idols. Buffet is a liberal (which you ought to like, Tim), but even if he wasn't, I would have to wonder why anyone would idolize those two men. Not that I begrudge them their money or am implying that extreme wealth alone discredits one in any way. But I think it does speak volumes about a person if, out of all the people in the world, he chooses billionaires to idolize.
07/16/06 @ 21:55
Comment from: Jenney M. [Visitor]
putt4par: I fully agree with you re: Gublis and Pressel. In LPGA-land they have their own version of hype and I feel like they're really giving the hard sell on girls like Gublis, Pressel and Creamer, who do exactly what they're told to. Gublis is pretty likeable and has played fairly well this year, even though she lost today(JAMIE FARR OWENS CORNING CLASSIC). Pressel and Creamer though... meh. Creamer had a great rookie year, but she's so flat this year. She always has those annoying bows and ribbons in her hair... now THAT can't be good for golf. Pressel, who supposedly gained so much by winning in amateurs, sure cries a lot and hasn't been in contention since before she bawled her eyes out when Michelle Wie(who was playing her group) finished ahead of her at Fields. Heh. I thought I'd stick that one in there for the Wie Haters.
07/17/06 @ 01:40
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Gove's comment remind me of a line from the movie TOOTHLESS. Kristie Alley is in limbo, and meets her old dentist mentor. He tells her that he was playing golf when he died, and his playing partners propped him up on the cart and finished the round.

NORMAN is a big Wie supporter, but I believe he said he would not want to be in her playing group at the Omega Masters. It seems to me this problem could be easily solved. Her playing partners should be limited to players who have no objections to playing with her--and other players who are there on sponsor's exemptions.

07/17/06 @ 02:29
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
The Japanese fellow in Michelle's group didn't seem to have any problem making the cut with Gove playing poorly. So what is the difference? It is very simple, Gove just needed an excuse for his own poor play.

Most of the "Real" Pros on the PGA Tour understand what Michelle brings to an event in higher attendance and TV ratings and what it means to the tour. There might be a bit of exploitation on both sides, but support will wane if Michelle doesn't do well in her next two men's events. A made cut is a must if she would like to continue entering PGA events.

07/17/06 @ 04:00
Comment from: kasr [Visitor]
This has been an interesting discussion. Thanks putt4par, tim mcdonald, one putt, Jennym, ect. for making it so. I do not know what spurred my interest in golf suddenly after 38 years. I do know however, it had something to do with Michelle Wie. Let me introduce myself. I was a mid-Atlantic Pro-Am caddy in the late 1960's. As a pro-am caddy I did not carry the bags for the touring Pro's, however I did carry the bag's for celebrities, club pros, Tournament oficials, promoters and sponsers. Before I lose you, these are not just the remembrances of an old man; instead I think they may have some major significance with what is going on today, so bear with me, if you want to find out why. Anyhow, the year was 1968 and the LPGA was coming to Baltimore. In the mid to late 1960's the LPGA tournaments had basically traded wins between Mickey Wright, Kathy Whitworth, and Carol Mann on almost a weekly basis. This competition no longer created any excitment. The Baltimore tournament, occurring between two Majors, was moribund (those were their words, not mine, I was just their caddy). Then a stroke of good luck suddenly befell them as they received word that Sandra Post had just creamed Kathy Whitworth in an 18 hole playoff and had won the LPGA Championship. Well, Baltimore was next, so their immediate reaction was How can we sell this to save our tournament. They knew that a Whitworth- Wright-Mann duel would never do it, since it had not worked before, so they came up with the idea of a Post- Whitworth rematch. There was only one problem, Sandra Post was unknown outside of Canada, so they needed something that would sell her in a hurry. The "cute little rookie from Canada" would never sell in Baltimore so they did a little research and came up with "the youngest player, male or female, ever to win a major". That slogan was a hit with the 1968 Baltimore media and was quickly picked up by the Canadian media, which gave it legs. Sandra Post came down a day or so later, and in my opinion, was completely unaware of this media feeding frenzy that was developing in Baltimore, where she was asked every other question about being "the youngest player, male or female, ever to win a major." I really doubt whether she even knew she was setting any record. Anyhow, for the record, Sandra Post, appearing a bit overwhelmed, had a poor first day in the Baltimore tournament but then got it together and charged up the leaderboard for the second and third days. Unfortunately for the promotion team, which was trying for a Post- Whitworth rematch, it was a three- day tournament which ended with a Whitworth victory and Post in third. I believe if it had been a Four day tournament, then the promoters would have accomplished what they were striving for, a Post-Whitworth rematch and an international media feeding frenzy at their moribund Baltimore tournament. Oh well, you win and you lose. I did go up to the Reading PA tournament the following week and the Post-Whitworth duel and "the youngest person ever to win a major" moniker was never mentioned. It was entirely a creation of the Baltimore media, given legs by the Canadians. OK you ask, but how does all this history relate to Michelle Wie? It is getting late and this old caddy is getting tired, so for anyone that has read this far I am not going to finish the story right now. But I will give you a hint............ Consider this- on her present schedule Michelle Wie will have entered at least 24 Majors before she reaches an equivalent age as Sandra Post was when she entered and won her first major, that gave her the title, created by the Baltimore touranment promoters, in 1968, of "the youngest player, male or female, ever to win a major". Hecht, if I were in contest with Tiger Woods to see who could sink a twelve foot putt first, and I had 24 chances to putt before he got his first chance, I could almost guarantee that I would be the "Youngest person ever to beat Tiger Woods in a putting contest". In my future posts I will show why I think Michelle Wie, or more accurately, her promoters are about to engage in "The Big Lie" propaganda technique.
07/17/06 @ 04:05
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Comment from: kasr [Visitor]

I would be interested in your opinion kasr on Michelle's performance in 2005 and 2006 (so far) compared to some of the better women golfers you may have seen play in the sixties era and since? Where do you think she stacks up in relation to the best female players past or present?

In your assessment forget about Michelle's age or Rolex ranking to give the comparison added value. Call it like you see it kasr.

07/17/06 @ 06:47
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jenney and putt-4-par, even if I gave my reasons for why Michelle Wie is sapping integrity from the game, you would either come up with your irrelevant counter-arguments or not understand it. Oh what the hell, here it is:

Michelle Wie's chase of the "American dream" has always been about a self-glorifying strategy rather than chasing a dream. I'm still not sure how much of that is her and how much is her entourage and sponsors. I'm starting to suspect it is just as much her as anyone else.

Even if it was a legitimate pursuit at first, it has been co-opted by Nike, tournament committees, advertisers and others who stand to benefit financially.

This isn't some noble quest to break gender barriers, which I would applaud. It's all about Michelle Wie. You would say it helps the game by bringing attention to it, and it is true that there are some side-benefits.

But, what kind of message is it sending to all those young girls getting interested in the game? It's all about "me, me, me."

The message is, start at the top and work your way down, instead of progressing organically. It's a case of twisted priorities. I could go on and on, but you get the message. Actually, I doubt you get the message. Wie Warriors are blinded by their unnatural adulation.



07/17/06 @ 09:29
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Sandra Post was born on June 4, 1948. She had her first win at the LPGA Championships in 1968. Her next win was not an official LPGA win and occurred in 1974. Her second official LPGA win came in 1978. From 1978 to 1981 she won 7 times for a total of 8 offical career wins plus the one unofficial win.

It seems to me that the Sandra Post story tells us not to place too much importance in just one result. Michelle Wie has four top 5 finishes in each of her last 4 Majors--and 5 out of 6. I consider this to be more important than just a single win in a player's first Major. In fact, I am so conifident on this point that I will predict that Michelle Wie will exceed Sandra Post's career win total in fewer total tournaments than the number it took Sandra Post to win just two official victories.

07/17/06 @ 09:29
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
kasr

Did you actually compare Tiger Woods to Sandra Post?
07/17/06 @ 09:38
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
I just returned from a wonderful weekend getaway with the family to the Cape. The weather was beautiful, a little on the warm side, but nothing to collapse over. I am tanned and rested and looked forward to seeing what the fallout from Michelle's abysmal John Deere would be. Much to my suprise, my old(and I do emphasize old) friend One-Putt seems to want to relieve his old glory days by seemingly challenging me to a fight. I'm not much in the habit of staging fights over the internet, I'll leave that to the pimple-faced geeks and cowards who find their bravery behind a computer screen. I will say this, however, One-Putt I would be happy to discuss this matter further over private email correspondence if you would like and if at all geographically feasable I will gladly take this matter up with you in person. Looking forward to you're response, Grandpa.
07/17/06 @ 09:52
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Ford, I'm betting One-putt is as unlikely to take you up on your challenge as he is to post another belligerent comment. He's like Dick Cheney -- plenty macho when he can safely hide.
07/17/06 @ 09:56
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Tim

Actually, I think you are both right and wrong.
Let me expalin.

I see no loss of integrety to the game of golf at all.

I don't think she can single handedly take any integrety from the game, the game won't change because of what she is doing.

--------------------------------------------
"Even if it was a legitimate pursuit at first, it has been co-opted by Nike, tournament committees, advertisers and others who stand to benefit financially."
--------------------------------------------

What sponsors, handlers and management do is another story. I'm not completely sold on the idea that Michelle is losing her integrety, whereas what the LPGA, PGA, tournament organizers,sponsors, handlers etc., are doing can be questioned. I believe they are all exploiting Michelle, the rules of the Golfing associations and the loyalty of golfing fans.

--------------------------------------------
"Michelle Wie's chase of the "American dream" has always been about a self-glorifying strategy rather than chasing a dream. I'm still not sure how much of that is her and how much is her entourage and sponsors. I'm starting to suspect it is just as much her as anyone else."

--------------------------------------------

At this stage of the drama, I think she is beginning to believe the hype which is too bad.

I'm not sure what the answer is nor how what any of us here on this blog are doing/can do will change anything.

What really gripes me about this whole mess is to watch a super talented individual being exploited, taunted, spoiled and vilified all by the ravenous hounds called the media/press.

Where will it end? I have no idea but I'll tell you one thing that has me concerned.
There are some really questionable nutcases out there. We have seen what some will do in their zeal. Monica Seal was assaulted by a fan. Then there was Tonya Harding's over zealous bid to get rid of the competition. Two cases from different ends of the same spectrum.
And having read some of the things that have been posted on some forums makes me cringe, just thinking about what drives people.

I have no answers, just more and more questions.

Frankly, I believe that there are some things that need to be addressed in the AJGA, the LPGA, the PGA and the way Sponsors do business, about how to handle super excellers and what a sponsor can do in regards to a minor, with or with out a Parent/guardians consent.

Any way you look at it, it isn't a pretty situation nor is it going to get any better even if she does start winning.
07/17/06 @ 11:27
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Tim, By now, everyone posting here realizes that you are the consummate liberal, the yellow-dog Democrat, the hater of all things Republican, And that's fine with me. We conservatives can always use a few laughs. Of course, it's your God-given right and privilege to express your opinions. With that concession having been made, I'd like your answer to a very simple question. Timmy, what subjects, what topics, what debates, and what fields of human endeavor should be exempt from the interjection of partisan political rancor? Since you obviously think that a golf blog is fair game for far-left political sniping, I'm just curious as to what you may think to be sacrosanct, out-of-bounds for partisan political rhetoric.
07/17/06 @ 11:35
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Ford, One-Putt didn't just challenge you to a fight. And he didn't mention anything about abiding by the Marquis of Queesnsbury rules either. He specifically said that he'd like to tear off your head and urinate on what was left of your internal organs. Such desire for violence seems so out of character for One-Putt, normally a cooler head in the sea of hot-blooded Wie Warrior insanity. It seems like further evidence that Bubbles' latest flop has caused even the relatively sensible Wie-zeals to become unhinged
07/17/06 @ 12:01
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Yes, Timmy is one of the initiated. He's the kind of frothing-at-the-mouth leftist who would have joined Wellstone junior in screaming on the podium at Paul Wellstone's funeral. Timmy is governed by emotion, much like a woman.
07/17/06 @ 12:46
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
**************************
Tim McDonald said:
She's clearly out of her league when she plays with the men, and I think she found that out Friday. Yes, I felt sorry for her.
************************

Actually she played quite well on Friday and was even par through 8 holes.
It was Thursday when she didn't compete properly, and that was due to her wayward driving, and we've surely all had those types of rounds.



************************
Tim said:
I wouldn't be surprised if she backed off and concentrated on playing where she should be -- with the women - whether that means select LPGA tournaments or whatever.
************************

I think she should play more on weaker tours. I would like if she played 5 or 6 events on the Asian Tour, and that would give her a good idea of her level, and she would learn alot.
The Nationwide Tour is also a good option.
I don't agree with her just playing the lpga, because if she wants to succeed on the pga, then she shouldn't lose touch with mens course layouts.



************************
Tim said:
Then, IF she dominates and has no other worlds to conquer, she can try to compete with the men, after she matures, gets stronger, becomes more fit and learns how to win.
**********************

Again, if you are saying lower level mens tours fine, but sticking with the lpga for a while, is not good enough if she wants to succeed on the pga tour.
She should go play some Nationwide events, or come over to our equivalent, European Challenge Tour. She would learn alot there, and would be playing on similar course lengths to pga ones.
I think the lpga's 6,500 and less courses, with wider fairways and shorter rough, would mean that she wouldn't use so many shots. She needs to keep playing some level of mens events.
07/17/06 @ 13:11
Comment from: Ford [Visitor]
Alex--I too was shocked to return to my computer to find such a violent(all be it comical) solution to our little debate. Ripping off bad B-movie tough guy quotes does not help the cause of Michelle's fans and it does not make you sound tough, insane perhaps, but not intimadating in the least. It makes you seem sad, angry and bitter. Michelle has made a fool of you and her fans, each time she tries and fails the harder it is to defend her even being there in the first place. You have now resorted to 8th grade taunts and citing weather reports to defend your precious Michelle. This is getting pathetic. If I remember correctly you were a tunnel rat in the Vietnam conflict. You should and have been commended for you're obvious bravery, but threatening me is a sad last resort of a man that is fast losing hope in his idol and has already lost this argument. One-Putt I will retract my offer to come find you and give you the ass-kicking you deserve, the world has already done enough to you. My advice to you would be get back on you're post-traumatic stress disorder medicine and take a few days off from agonizing over the career of Michelle Wie, You'll live longer.
07/17/06 @ 14:07
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
One-putt, man this is embarrassing. Ford is whipping you like a red-headed step-child!
07/17/06 @ 14:56
Comment from: Jenney M. [Visitor]
Tim McDonald:
I'm not sure why you think Tiger Woods, Mickelson or even cry baby Gove play golf, but I can tell you it's not for anyone else but themselves. Michelle Wie has made it clear that she's not playing golf to break the gender barrier, and I don't see why it would be better if she did. I support her right to play golf at whatever level she's allowed to, as I support anyone's right to do so... even Morgan Pressel.

Anyone else in her position would take these opportunities, of course no one else is in her position. It seems so funny how you poo poo Ogilvie for admiring 2 of the biggest philantropists active today, yet your big beef with Michelle Wie is that she's all about Michelle Wie. It's all so inconsistent. Do you think when Natalie Gublis puts out a swimsuit calendar or poses for FHM, she's REALLY doing it for anyone else other than Natalie Gublis? I'm sure you men would like to think so. Or maybe you think she's crusading to show how sexy golf can be? Very admirable, I'm sure the golf gods are um... "smiling" on her now.

If everyone is so sure that Michelle Wie isn't good enough and will never make it, then there's nothing to worry about and she'll just self-destruct. Golf isn't going to be destroyed, just Michelle Wie. So all your Wie-haters should be gleefully rubbing your hands in anticipation. In the meantime, I think she's made golf a lot more interesting for a lot of people, and if we can use your blog activity as an example, it seems that it's been more interesting for the people she's apparently alienating too.
07/17/06 @ 17:18
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Jenney M, there's nothing inconsistent in my viewpoint that I can see. First of all, one of the reasons I like to watch Natalie Gulbis is I can't figure out if she is thrusting her breasts out that way on purpose or if she's just built that way. I keep watching for signs. It's both provocative and a little disturbing, like watching a contortionist, which I've never liked doing. Yet her obvious beauty is, at the same time, compelling.

Your notion that every golfer plays for himself or herself is overly simplistic, as is your support of her to play golf at "whatever level she's allowed to." We can't have rules for every single thing in life; the fact that she is "allowed" to doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.

And you're just plain wrong about how anybody else in her position "would take these opportunities." There are better female golfers than her right now who have chosen not to.

Two corrections: I've never said Wie wasn't good enough and that she would never make it. She is good enough, and she almost certainly will make it, though it isn't a given; a lot of young superstars have burned out before realizing their potential. And I don't think she has made golf more interesting; she is undoubtedly an interesting sidebar, a circus act if you will, that has spurred interest in the game, at least in the short term. My question is: at what price?

07/17/06 @ 18:34
Comment from: kasr [Visitor]
One- putt
Ok here is how I see it how I see it in the late 60's compared to Michelle Wie.
Kathy Whitworth- probably the best ever, won week after week, year after year against strong fields, The only reason she did not win more Majors was that there were only two majors contested for the bulk of her career. If you double her listed Major total it would provide a more accurate estimate for comparison. Of course this applies to the other players in that era also.
Mickey Wright- I saw her when her career was winding down, so she did not appear quite as dominant as Kathy Whitworth, but it certainly would be close. Either Whitworth or Wright could be compared to a modern day Annika Sorenstam, with respect to how they dominated.
Carol Mann- She was streaky but on her good streaks, which could last for many weeks, she could beat Whitworth and Wright on a regular basis.
Those three were easily the cream of the crop in the late 60's. No one else even came close.
Michelle Wie- This is a tough one because I'm not sure I have seen the real Michelle, at least not on a sustained basis. I keep getting the feeling that I am only seeing what her handlers want me to see, and as many people above have pointed out, this can be quite different from week to week. For One-putts question I am only going to compare the Michelle Wie that I saw(on TV) in the three 2006 LPGA majors, to the players listed above(which I all saw play in person). For the Michelle I saw other than in the 2006 LPGA Majors, it would disgace those above to even attempt a comparison. Michelle Wie, so far, probably compares closet to Carol Mann who on a good day, week, or month, had the skill package to beat everyone else relatively easily. Wie is getting close to being able to pull off that kind of streak but is not there yet. As for a comparison, of Wie to Whitworth and Wright, there is none - Sorrenstam maybe at some point - but not Wie. From what I see at this point, it would be almost imposssible for Wie to have the type of career, that those two had.
07/18/06 @ 00:35
Comment from: kasr [Visitor]
Jim coulthard
No, of course not. It was getting late and maybe I did not state it clearly. The point I was trying to make was that Michelle Wie is on track to have 24 attempts at a Major win by the time she reaches the equivalent age to Sandra Post, when she had her first attempt to set the "record". My analogy, and perhaps it was a poor one, was that if I set myself up with a hypothetical putting contest with Tiger Woods, and gave myself 24 opportunities to sink a twelve foot putt before I gave him his first attempt, than I probably would be able to win the contest. The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with the relative golfing skills of me, Sandra post, Michelle Wie, or a hypothetical Tiger Woods. It was that the results of any contest where someone has 24 tries to win before someone else had there first attempt would produce meaningless results. As far as I am concerned the whole "record" is worthless now and it will be worthless when someone breaks it, because there is no way to make backward comparisons, except on a very subjective basis. For instance how does one account for all the previous years when only two Majors were played. Those players would only have one half the chance to win one in a season, compared to the players today. How about the players who competed in the years when only one Major was contested. How does one know how young they would have been when they won, if they had three additional attempts to win each year. No this record is worthless - It shows absolutely knothing about relative golfing skills of past players at a young age, and should be allowed to die. My hunch is that it is very important as a marketing gimmick, though, and we are about to find that out.
07/18/06 @ 02:33
Comment from: Mike s [Visitor]
I would like to comment on Tim's assertion that Michelle does not make golf more interesting. If you took a random sample of spectators at Thurs and Fri's John Deere Classic and boiled it down to 10, it would shape up like this

3 there just to see Ms Wie play
3 that would be there anyway, but were glad that Ms Wie was playing
2 that would be there and didn't care that Ms Wie was playing
1 that didn't like the fact that Ms Wie was taking a spot away from a journeyman golfer/has been
1 that didn't like the fact that Ms Wie was playing or any women was playing.

I for myself would not have watched near as much if Ms Wie had not been there.
Sunday I watched the LPGA
personally I think Ms Gulbis is just built that way, but it is an interesting observation. Sunday I was thinking about her makeup; hot as it was how come it stayed as pristine as it did.
I thoroughly enjoyed the fact that some of the other LPGA golfers stayed and watched the playoff
07/18/06 @ 13:32
Comment from: Jenney M. [Visitor]
Inconsistency is someone who objectifies Natalie Gublis and yet complains about the loss of integrity in golf.

I think you're extremely naive to think that these golfers, even those journeyman golfers, are doing it for anyone but themselves. They are certainly not doing it for the higher good or to maintain the integrity of golf. As far as sponsors, even Paula Creamer has sponsors: Adidas, NEC, Taylor Made, Bank of Scotland, ADT. Morgan Pressel has Callaway and Polo. The list goes on and on.

In fact, you can buy shares just like buying shares in Google or Microsoft, but you buy shares in golfers. Currently Mickelson is at $510, Tiger's at $501, Wie's at $121, Pressel's at $43, Creamer's at $94. It seems like everyone has fingers in the pie, just some have a bigger piece of it.

You might think Michelle Wie doesn't make golf more interesting, but it certainly makes your blog more interesting. If you look at the number of responses to any of your Michelle Wie posts compared with your non-Michelle Wie posts, it doesn't even compare. You know it. We all know it.
07/18/06 @ 15:03
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Thanks for being honest in your opinion and I can agree with your assessment somewhat.

Kathy is the best female golfer of all time and has the record to show it. She turned Pro in 1959 with her first win on tour coming in 1962 and the floodgates opened and she won almost everytime she entered an event in 1962. Also in 1962 she also achieved her first top five finish in a Major. Kathy recorded her first win at a Major in 1967 in her eighth year on the tour.

Mickey turned pro in 1955 and achieved her first LPGA win the next season where she played in only one regular LPGA event and won. She also had her first top five finish in a Major in 1956. In 1958 she won her first of many Major tournaments in her third year on the tour.

Carol's rookie year was 1961 and she recorded the first of her 38 wins in 1964. Her first top five in a Major came in 1962 and the only major she won was the Open in 1965 in her fourth year on the tour.

This is where I disagree with your assessment kasr:

Michelle turned Pro less than a year ago and has played in only six LPGA events as a professional.

2005
Samsung she was sitting in fourth place until she was DQd for a bad drop

2006

Fields third place

Kraft tie for 3rd (Major)

McDonald's tie for 5th (Major)

Open tie for 3rd (Major)

HSBC tie for 3rd

Now upon review of the records above for three Hall of Fame members, I think it is safe to say Michelle has a "record second to none" of these gals in the first season as a Professional playing in LPGA events. When Michelle finally learns how to close the deal like these ladies did after more than one season on the tour, I believe the floodgates will open up for her.

All of the players you referenced from the sixties came up in the traditional Amateur ranks, but it took them some time on the LPGA tour to figure out how to win. Michelle has an average of a six year head start on all of their careers.

We might witness history each time Michelle enters an event, unfortunately there are no other sixteen year olds playing professional golf to compare her to, as she is one in a million. Some folks posting at this forum just can't get a clue.






07/18/06 @ 15:10
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Oh my goodness! One-Putt just couldn't resist playing the "Bubbles is only sixteen card" once again!
07/18/06 @ 18:02
Comment from: UnderPar [Visitor]
Here's a question I have about LPGA exemptions. When MW "Bubbles" turns 18 yrs old, does she have to apply for membership for the LPGA or can just continue playing on exemptions?? In other words can she play on exemptions from the LPGA until she's 25 or however long and not go thru Q school or even apply for membership to the LPGA?
07/18/06 @ 19:44
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: UnderPar [Visitor]
Here's a question I have about LPGA exemptions. When MW "Bubbles" turns 18 yrs old, does she have to apply for membership for the LPGA or can just continue playing on exemptions?? In other words can she play on exemptions from the LPGA until she's 25 or however long and not go thru Q school or even apply for membership to the LPGA?"

A golfer is not required to join any tour, but they give up some benefits and limit their ability to qualify for events.

On the LPGA tour there are only two events that they can qualify for thru previous high finish or a win. The US Women's Open and the British Women's Open are sanctioned by different bodies and players can earn a next year entrance finishing high in the order and a five year exemption for winning the event.

If a player from outside of the LPGA Tour wins an event, they have only one option to qualify for a 2 or 5 year (depending on the number of events won or winning a Major) exemption and that is to join the tour. If they choose not to join they are not given automatic entry as a defending champion in the next same LPGA event.

Professionals playing from outside the tour do not earn ADT points and their playing statistics do not go into the official LPGA records. They don't have voting rights or participate in the pension plan.

Freelancing is a hard route to take, since you can only enter six regular LPGA events on a Sponsor's exemption. Only non-exempt LPGA members or amateurs can participate in Monday qualifying.

If Michelle shows up with her driver, wedges and putter in one event and wins, she and the LPGA will have some choices to make: allow her to enter the tour before she is eighteen as an fully exempt member in the next season with all the limitations that entails or turn her down and she continues to freelance from outside the tour for a couple more years. That is of course if Michelle would accept those limitations in the first scenario.

For Alex: did I fail to mention her amateur LPGA record as a fifteen year old? It was quite stunning actually.
07/19/06 @ 03:45
Comment from: JRC [Visitor]
"...I would love to see a 16-year-old female win a PGA Tour event—..." This quote comes from an article by a columnist named Woodson who writes his articles in the sports section of the Rochester Business Journal. He’s also reevaluating his position as a Wie-booster on MW’s readiness to take on the men of the PGA. In reading this sentence, nearing the end of his article, I asked myself...why do you want to see a 16 year old female when against the men? What possible benefit or value to golfing as sport and profession could come of it? So, I thought I would pose the same question to the Wie-booster contributors of this blogdom...Why?
07/20/06 @ 14:30
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Good question. The answers -- if they're not too cowardly to answer -- should be telling.
07/20/06 @ 15:03
Comment from: Jenney M. [Visitor]
JRC: I don't want to seee a 16 yo female win against the men necessarily. What I would like is for the issue not to be about her gender or her age. The LPGA isn't the PGA "Light", they have different rules there. People keep forgetting that to even apply to qualify for the LPGA, you have to be 18. Michelle Wie is 16. The PGA does not have that age barrier and now that she has turned pro, playing juniors or amateurs is not an option open to her. It's funny how the way people talk about her now re: playing in the PGA, is so similiar to how people used to talk about her previously re: playing in the LPGA.

So as it stands, you would have this girl play only the 6 tournaments a year she's allowed to by the LPGA? It's ridiculous to think that she can develop that way.

Now people might argue that Michelle Wie shouldn't have turned pro. However, they forget that Wie wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Wie's parents estimated that it cost them $50,000/year for Wie to play golf. Partly the high costs were due to having to fly into the mainland all the time for tournaments. The winnings from tournaments that Wie had to turn away, because she was an amateur would have paid for all her golf. People argue that Michelle should have played in more junior amateur tournaments, but she did play in all the ones that were available to her in Hawaii and she did win those. However Hawaii is not the mainland. Grace Park's parents knew that too and moved Park from Hawaii to Arizona for high school. Michelle Wie's parents didn't see it as an option for them. People seem to forget how expensive it is to play golf when you're just a junior or an amateur and it's much more expensive the further away you live.

To the argument that Michelle should win on the LPGA before she even attempts to make the cut in the PGA, reminds me of when Sorenstam tried to make the cut at Colonial. Sorenstam didn't make the cut, but I felt at the time the whole process was too overwhelming for her. There was too much stress and everything became about her gender. At the time, there were people who were very opposed to her even trying. And now the same people are the ones who are saying that Michelle Wie should follow the route of Sorenstam?

The issue is people are telling Michelle Wie to follow the conventional path and when she looks at some of the people who've followed that path, they have only failed. Sorenstam never tried to make the cut again and has said the PGA is not for her. Despite the fact that Sorenstam is the best female golfer in the world, why would Wie see that route as the best way for her to eventually play in the PGA? And as for learning how to win in the juniors/amateurs as the prescribed method of success, there are so many examples of when that doesn't work out. Gulbis after 4 1/2 years on the LPGA has failed to win. Gublis has a fairly impressive record of winning as an amateur. Now Pressel, who is the posterchild for following the prescribed method, has even a more impressive list of amateur wins. Pressel was considered the top ranked girls junior and women's amateur player for 2005. Pressel also was the AJGA Player of the year in 2005. When Wie has finished ahead of Pressel at every tournament they've been in together this year, including one where they played in the same group, it's pretty ridiculous to tell Wie to go back to amateurs and juniors and prove she can win there.

Wie, of course, needs to develop and improve if she wants to make the cut. No one is delusional enough to think she's going to win in the PGA as a 16 yo. I just think she should be allowed the opportunity, because right now she doesn't have as many options as people may think.
07/20/06 @ 16:05
Comment from: Mike s [Visitor]
Jenny, That was the best reply I have seen yet on this subject. I will be anxious to see how the "bashers" respond. I hope that her path takes her where she wants to go. I enjoy watching her golf and if nothing else, she inspired my 15 y/o daughter to take up the game. I kinda understand Tim's and CB's rationalization for always dissing Ms Wie (it is the only thing that gets people to coment on their blogs), but I still haven't figured out the rest of the bashers motivations. To purposely, day after day, dish out hatred and malcontent on a classy young lady like her is beyond me.
07/20/06 @ 19:13
Comment from: JRC [Visitor]
OK, whoa there...all I wanted to know is why Wie fans feel it's important that she compete against men, now. The analysis of the limited number of amateur events on the island and high expense of competing stateside is a good one, but didn’t satisfy the question. Did MW actually exhaust all the junior/amateur events in Hawaii? Was she dominating that group of golfers before she ventured into her first LPGA event? I also had hoped that someone would explain how she is helping the game of golf….not the tournament directors, or TV ratings, or herself (all pretty obvious), but the rather the game. And, if one answer is: she’s encouraging young girls to take up the game, which is great, then why is she more encouraging than Lorena Ochoa, Paula Creamer, Natalie Gulbis, Morgan Pressel, et al?
07/20/06 @ 21:24
Comment from: Jenney M. [Visitor]
Her first LPGA event was when she qualified for the Takefuji Classic in 2002. The youngest ever to join the field in a women’s tour event, she broke the record set the previous year by Morgan Pressel, who made the U.S. Open at age 13. Michelle Wie was 12. She missed the cut.

After the Takefuji she won the Hawaii State Women's Open(won by 13 strokes w/ 8-under par). That year she also won the Hawaii State Junior Golf Association's Tournament of Champions. The year before she finished 2nd in the Hawaii State Women's Open.

Previous to that:
2001 Hawaii State Women’s Stroke Play Championship (one of three major tournaments in Hawaii), Youngest winner at age 11
2001 Jennie K. Wilson Invitational (the most prestigious women’s amateur tournament in Hawaii), Youngest winner at age 11
2001 Hawaii State Junior Golf Association’s Tournament of Champions, Champion
2000 Hawaii State Open, Women's Division Low Amateur
2000 Honolulu Mayor's Cup, Champion
2000 Hawaii State Women’s Stroke Play Championship, Third place

Her first LPGA major was 2003 Kraft Nabisco Championship. At the time critics said that Wie should have a better junior record before getting the exemption. She had missed the cut in the 3 previous LPGA events she had played and she hadn't won anything outside of Hawaii. She tied for 9th. She was 13. That year she won the USGA Women's Amateur Public Links Championship and was the youngest to win that event at age 13. Interesting aside, she beat current LPGA rookie Virada Nirapathpongporn who was 21 at the time.

She certainly is helping the game of golf, by encouraging more interest and more young girls are taking up the game. Sure that can be an answer, even though I don't think it's fair that she has this question asked of her when no one else does.

Is Michelle Wie more encouraging than the other female golfers to young girls? Yes, basically because she combines a number of qualities that some of the golfers on the LPGA have, but none of them have all of these qualities.
All are good golfers, some are good looking(Gulbis, Creamer(I don't see it, but apparently old guys dig her)), some are charismatic(Gulbis, Creamer), some have fame outside the immediate golfing world(Gulbis), some are young(Pressel). Gublis is really the only one who has any fame amongst non-golf fans. Gublis' fans are mostly males and readers of FHM ie. NOT young girls.

Michelle appeals to young girls, because she is the most like them. When she's interviewed, she sounds very poised part of the time and like a typical mall going, Claire's shopping teenybopper the other part of the time. She wears the coolest clothes, earrings, and sunglasses. When little girls look at her, they want to be her. She's a tomboy, yet feminine without being too girly-girl like Creamer or too sexy like Gulbis. Pressel may be young, but she lacks charisma and she's really doesn't look as cool. For all her Polo tees, she's no fashionista. And when young girls hear Wie say that she wants to be just as good as the men, young girls can relate to it. Young girls don't see the limitations or the politics or concern themselves with the exemptions.
07/21/06 @ 04:09

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