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131 comments

Comment from: Johnny N. [Visitor]
Tim,
The reason they have officials there is so that they know the rules and the players don't need to.
08/04/06 @ 16:42
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Well... first look at the after round interview shows that MW has taken a page from her fan's excuses and learned how to play the "age" card.

Q: How is this going to affect your play in the sand from now on?
MICHELLE WIE: I am going to have my club three feet above the ground. You know, it is like, you learn it when you are 16.

08/04/06 @ 16:45
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Johnny N... where did you come up with that????
08/04/06 @ 16:48
Comment from: Rob Durkee, North Hollywood [Visitor]
Michelle Weak needs not only to read the golf rule book, but to take those stupid earrings off.
08/04/06 @ 17:14
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
As I recall MW knew enough about the rules to get a free drop because of honey bees in her first pro tourney, The Samsung.

Hard to believe she doesn't know the rules about loose impediments or grounding ones club in a hazard.
08/04/06 @ 17:20
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
all of these revelations could make one skeptical of the character of the player in question.
08/04/06 @ 17:32
Comment from: gpro51 [Visitor]
I agree with JR. Where did you come up with that? She knows not to putt from the gren with the flag in, she tees up behind the markers, etc,etc,etc. Rules officials are there to assist in intrpreting the rules of Golf, not as a umpire or referee. Golf is the only sport where players actually referee themselves. Hopefully one day she can quit pleading ignorance and admit when she makes a mistake and move on.
08/04/06 @ 17:35
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
Penalized 2 times in what, 8-9 tourneys as a pro. Starting to seem like a pattern to me.
08/04/06 @ 17:37
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
"all of these revelations could make one skeptical of the character of the player in question. "

That's nonsense, players have trouble with the rules all the time, like when Annika removed part of a divot under her ball a couple of majors ago. It's part of golf.

btw, if it was so obvious, why didn't the TV commentators notice it? Should Michelle be expected to know the rules better than Judy Rankin?
08/04/06 @ 17:47
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Quick, name any other professional golfer who has been penalized TWICE for violations.

No internet allowed. Just off the top of your head.

Didn't think so.
08/04/06 @ 17:55
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Paul W... it's a pretty basic rule considering it's in a HAZARD. Think back to her 1st DQ. Apparently, if she had dropped the proper distance, she would not have been able to swing the club without hitting the tree. So, without meaning to, she only went back far enough where she could swing. I've always thought that was a little questionable but I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Now, she stated that she knew she hit it but didnt call it on herself. This brings up a question, would MW not call a penalty on herself if it would result in a PGA cut made or a victory on the LPGA? Well......
08/04/06 @ 18:08
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
If she knew she had violated the rule, what do you think she would have said when she was asked about it? She would have said she didn't realize she hit the moss. It would have been the obvious lie.
08/04/06 @ 18:26
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
"Quick, name any other professional golfer who has been penalized TWICE for violations."

I'm sure if every golfer had every shot recorded on camera, there would be a lot more penalties.
08/04/06 @ 18:30
Comment from: Foot Wedge [Visitor]
Todd Commish said,

"Quick, name any other professional golfer who has been penalized TWICE for violations.

No internet allowed. Just off the top of your head."

Off the top of my head. Jeong Jang was recently penalized by "the TV referee" when she double hit out of a bunker. I think it was the US Open but I can't verify or come up with a second instance without using the internet, per your requirements.

If this is a conspiracy, as you imply, then maybe it goes beyond M.W., and maybe it involves all Korean golfers.

Blazer was absolutely correct to bring up the "bee incident" which was all but lost in the media frenzy after M.W.'s DQ at the Samsung. Just two days prior, she was portrayed by the media as being a savvy, knowledgeable golfer because she was able to exploit the rules to get a free drop from a bush that had bees around it, when in fact, she had an unplayable lie.

Has anyone ever verified that she is allergic to bees, or did we just take her word on that one?
08/04/06 @ 18:40
Comment from: maui john [Visitor]
Non golfer here but it seems kinda stupid to get penalized 2 shots for what must have been unintentional right, hitting anything on your downswing would mess with your stroke
so it seems obvious that nobody would do it to gain an avantage. So can someone explain to me why that rule is there?
08/04/06 @ 18:54
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
Another pro penalized twice. Annika. The divot and then the incident with Paula Creamer last year. Oh, I'm sorry. Annika wasn't penlized. It all came down to her word against Paula's--and in that case the player's word stands. But after she ratted on herself a few weeks earlier, it is hard to believe that Paula wasn't telling the truth.
08/04/06 @ 18:58
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
Michelle Wie's penalty

Note:At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke, the player may touch with the club or otherwise any obstruction, any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.

This is the exception to rule 13-4c

I taped the tournament and saw Michelle move the moss on her backswing which I believe there should be no penalty according to the rules.
08/04/06 @ 18:58
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
BLAZER...MW DID NOT GROUND HER CLUB ON THE MOSS, SHE MOVED THE MOSS ON HER BACKSWING.
08/04/06 @ 19:01
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
I UNDERSTAND THAT IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD THAT ONLY MEN WEAR EARRINGS.
08/04/06 @ 19:06
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
Joe Cool, I noticed that same thing reading the rules, the moss is clearly a "growing thing". I think the core issue is whether it was loose. I didn't see the tape so I don't know.

Clearly the rules aren't as simple as everyone is making them out to be.
08/04/06 @ 19:10
Comment from: Ronnie [Visitor]
The guys who are questioning Michelle are right.

She was trying to not get a penalty because she is a useless golfer. She was outside the top 20 anyway and was just trying to get an unfair advantage.

JR, you are a genius. Good of you to notice the cheating. The girl isn't able to get into the top 10 so she is cheating trying to get in, because she isn't good enough.

Paula Creamer is much better. All the guys saying Michelle is cheating are right because Michelle wouldn't be able to get in the top 5 without cheating. All geniuses.
08/04/06 @ 19:14
Comment from: Ronnie [Visitor]
Horray guys.

You go guys. Michelle should be tested to check if she is allergic to bees. You go guys. High fives all round.

Horray.
Horray.
08/04/06 @ 19:16
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
maui john

You are allowed to hit things as part of your swing. Michelle said she considered her backswing to be part of her swing as far as this rule is concerned--but that obviously is not the rule.

It would be an advantage to be able to clear things away with your backswing which is probably the reason for the rule. But it would also be nice to be able to take a full backswing in a situation where there was no thought of gaining an advantage by removing an impediment.

I would be interested inknowing how many golfers consider the backswing to be part of their swing. I would imagine there would be quite a few.
08/04/06 @ 19:27
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Ronnie... your sarcasm is boring. MW moved sand on her backswing. She acknowledged hitting it. Apparently, you are too close to the subject to offer any non-biased commentary. It's the old, "if I cant make an argument, spew insults".
08/04/06 @ 19:32
Comment from: Jay [Visitor]
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Quick, name any other professional golfer who has been penalized TWICE for violations.

No internet allowed. Just off the top of your head.

Didn't think so.
*******************
Of course it is because people don't care or remember when any other golfers screw up !
It is because every single move Wie makes is the headline news that everyone knows Wie was twice penalized.
08/04/06 @ 19:32
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Ronnie... I just quickly checked some of the other blogs on this site, you just love spouting insults when you can't make an argument, don't you???
08/04/06 @ 19:34
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
maui john

You are allowed to hit things as part of your swing. Michelle said she considered her backswing to be part of her swing as far as this rule is concerned--but that obviously is not the rule.

It would be an advantage to be able to clear things away with your backswing which is probably the reason for the rule. But it would also be nice to be able to take a full backswing in a situation where there was no thought of gaining an advantage by removing an impediment.

I would be interested in knowing how many golfers consider the backswing to be part of their swing. I would imagine there would be quite a few.

Michelle Wie is a lot smarter than Tim. Michelle said she has no plans to read the rules of golf. They are not great reading material. Seriously no one can ever learn to play a game by reading the rule book--particularly one as complicated as the rules of golf. You learn from experience. Why waste time worrying about a hundered delicate points if 99 of them will never matter? She can better spend her time working on her golf game.

Does anyone seriously think this particular point could have been learned as effectively by a rulebook study as it has now been learned through experience?

08/04/06 @ 19:39
Comment from: Foot Wedge [Visitor]
Ronnie......

I remember an interview with John Daly in which he said that it wasn't him but Tiger who got fined more by the PGA for offensive language on the air. John explained that it was obvious since Tiger got way more TV air time then he ever did.

M.W. can expect to be on the air all the time, shouldn't she alot some amount of her time to knowing the rules, after all, she does have a $15 million cushion that her competitors don't have, due to her endorsements.

Before you condemn me as a Wie hater, I will acknowledge that on the George question, I will take Wie as the next winner of an LPGA tournament versus his other choices. Why you ask?

It's obvious. Of the younger group, she has played better lately. Do I think she is the savior of women's golf and the LPGA, absolutely not, but she does have momentum in her favor.
08/04/06 @ 19:51
Comment from: wie watcher [Visitor]
Of course it is because people don't care or remember when any other golfers screw up !
It is because every single move Wie makes is the headline news that everyone knows Wie was twice penalized.
-------------------------
Very true. Toddcommish's was an inane question.
08/04/06 @ 19:55
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
It sounds like there is a special rule for bunkers which is different from what applies elsewhere on the course.

RONNIE question

If Ronnie saw my post about Annika and Paula--why didn't he give me some support when I suggested that I thought Paula was telling the truth?

If Ronnie did not see my post, why didn't he make the same point I made? I cannot believe that Ronnie has forgotten about that particular incident.

08/04/06 @ 19:57
Comment from: hc2 [Visitor]
Can you guys clear this up for me? What if a player is in a bunker, and makes contact with fescue or grass on the downswing prior to hitting the ball? Does that constitute a two shot penalty as well? This rule seems obscure and not quite clear.
08/04/06 @ 20:02
Comment from: William K. Wolfrum [Visitor]
"Michelle said she has no plans to read the rules of golf."

See, Jim, that's really not something to brag about. I'm not sure if that's a paraphrase, real quote or rumor, but if true, it really reflects her age.

Golf is about three things: Rules, etiquette and integrity. Ok, maybe more than three things, but those are three big things.

That's also how you can have someone who shoots 120, play with someone who shoots 85. If the 120 shooter at least understands the game and etiquette involved, the 85 shooter doesn't mind.

But that's a side issue, really. Pros need to know the rules, and if they even have an inkling they violated a rule in any way, they need to question themselves. That's how it works. That's golf.

--WKW
08/04/06 @ 20:18
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
As usual, most folks are missing the point. Bubbles was raised by a liberal college professor father, and to liberals rules are there to be broken at best and inconvenient nuisances at worst. This is most likely what has influenced her thinking. She just doesn't take them too seriously.
08/04/06 @ 20:27
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
WHEN I SAW THE "CLOSEUP" OF THE BALL IN THE SAND JUST BEFORE MW HIT IT, I WAS SUSPICIOUS ABOUT WHO THE CAMERA MAN WAS. YOU COULD ACTUALLY COUNT THE DIMPLES ON THE BALL AND THE CAMERA NEVER MOVED A FRACTION UNTIL MW TOOK HER SWING. THE CAMERA MAN HAD TO BE THE S.I. REPORTER BUMBERGER...REMEMBER HIM?
08/04/06 @ 21:41
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
We keep reading that Michelle is a "straight A student" at her private high school in Hawaii. Hawaii is ranked 42nd in the country for excellence in education. Also, pity the poor teacher that would dare give Michelle a "B". From her past interviews I have not been impressed with her knowledge of the english language. This year she has used "awesome" 68 times and "fun" 49 times...I won't bother you with "stuff." I guess being the daughter of a college professor isn't really that big of a deal.
08/04/06 @ 21:58
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
I'm sure Michelle Wie knows and follows the rules of golf as much as most pro golfers do. But she is not most pro golfers, and she is subject to far more scrutiny than most.

The solution is not for Michelle Wie to take on another full time job by learning the rules like a rules official--at least at this time.

But just as the mistake last time has not been repeated, so too this one will be much less likely to occur again.

The Wies are likely to do the following.

First at any unfamilar course ask if there are any rules that would be obscure ones for someone used to typical American courses, but which would be of greater importance on this particular course. In this case the rule she violated seemed to be one that was really only important for pot bunkers, so going over any special rules that would be important for the major hazard on this particular course.

They are also likely to ask officials to review old tournament tapes as carefully as they will scrutinize Michelle looking for any violations so that Michelle can better know what to expect from officials in this regard.
08/04/06 @ 22:09
Comment from: Florida Mike [Visitor]
I find it hard to believe that some of the arguments are not questioning her knowledge but her integrity. I have seen no sign that Ms Wie would deliberately lie to "make a cut" or "win in the LPGA" and the implications that were made are insulting. well.....
08/04/06 @ 22:12
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
Michelle Wie has the character of a thief. She would never call a penalty on herself.
08/04/06 @ 22:48
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
I am astounded at the lack of knowlege of golf exhibited by people with the chutzpah to voice such strong opinions about the game. It absolutely IS the responsibility of the player to know the rules and enforce them upon themselves. The rules officials are not rules police but there to interpret and advise.

Rules that apply on the course are NOT the same in a sand, water or other hazard. In a hazard it is a penalty if you touch ANYTHING with your club unless you are about to fall. (One of the first rules I learned and passed on to my kids.)

Anyone who is willing to accept the money and the perks that go with being a professional golfer on today's tours has an implicit obligation to adhere to the rules of the game and to exhibit the integtity to enforce those rules on themselves. Amateurs too, Bobby.

Michelle is not being treated unfairly or indeed,any differently from many others. She handled her booboo with considerably more grace than many people on this blog. Having said that, it would be pretty stupid to challenge the English channel without first learning to swim. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it but most 16 yr olds need to learn that laws DO apply to them.

She's still a kid. Let's hope she grows out of it. If not, we can question her character then.

08/04/06 @ 23:14
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
I agree with you Doug, however nearly all of my vitriol is to wind up the dolts who worship a 16 year old.

Last year, she was asked if she felt she deserved to continue receiving sponsor's exemptions on the PGA Tour, after yet another missed cut. Her response was in the form of an analogy. She said if $100 was sitting on the table, she'd rather just grab it then have to go out and work for it. So "no", she didn't have a problem denying a touring pro a spot in the field.

There is a problem in the Wie family, as evidenced by that analogy and the absurd clothing this girl, I repeat, girl (as in CHILD) is wearing on the golf course. Total exploitation. How can anyone support this?

08/04/06 @ 23:29
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
If you've ever read any of my other postings, you know that I have nothing good to say about the path she's on or about anyone supporting her bad decisions. Nobody could be as perfect as Saint Bubbles but nobody is 100% wrong all the time.

My comments were addressed to the dolts. Bunch of d**n Wierdos anyhow.
08/04/06 @ 23:40
Comment from: hc2 [Visitor]
So much fuss is being made out of the fashion choices that MW is making. The fact all of us are past our twenties, and we do not relate to teens as well. Just try talking fashion with any teen girl, and they will think you are a dinosaur.. 'eeeh, gross. Polo shirts? what a drab.. Show me some skin..'
08/05/06 @ 00:27
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
If I were keeping a professional caddie on the payroll, I would expect him or her to know the rules and guide a young player thru the process. The caddy is the only individual who can give a player advice or prevent them from logging an improper score inside the ropes.

This is the second time Michelle's caddie has let her down in a rules situation. The first time it cost her a paycheck, this time it cost her two strokes in a Major.
08/05/06 @ 03:11
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
I would like to put the premise that Michelle was doing anything wrong by taking Sonsor's exemptions to professional.

To play a full schedule of amateur events traveling from Hawaii would cost around a $100,000 or more a year.

BJ and Bo are not poor, but they don't have unlimited resources either. They could handle Michelle playing a few events on the mainland, but not as many as she needed to progress in the game.

Enter the "Rules of Golf" amateur section where Sponsor's may not directly reimburse an amateur for actual expenses to play in their individual event, but they can transfer those funds to the USGA affiliate in Hawaii for disbursal of expense fees.

These expenses could include travel, food and accomodations for the amateur and a parent or guardian to accompany them to the event if they are underage.

It was simple economics that drove the Wie's to let Michelle enter professional tournaments so early.

She had an opportunity to learn from and play with the best golfers and have it underwritten by sponsors who wanted her in their event. You might notice she would play amateur events around her professional tournament appearance dates. This cut down on the air fare costs to and from Hawaii.

BJ and Bo are proud people and they would never let it be known they were short of resources to support Michelle's dreams. They did the best they could to get her into as many events as possible to develop her golfing skills.

I think they did a damn fine job and Michelle has turned out to be a wonderful young lady.

08/05/06 @ 05:33
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
I would like to put the premise that Michelle was doing anything wrong by taking Sonsor's exemptions to professional.

This should be:

I would like to put the premise that Michelle was doing anything wrong by taking sponsor's exemptions to professional events to rest.

Admin, don't be so cheap and add an edit button!
08/05/06 @ 05:37
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One-Putt... why are you placing the "rules infraction" missteps on the caddie? MW has had golf lessons since prior to being 13. I'm just gonna go out on a limb her and assume that along with all of the swing help during that time frame that her golf pro also played a round or 2 with her. You would think that during 3 or 4 years of these lessons that the rules of the game would come up. Such as... if your ball is in the hazard you cannot ground your club in the hazard and may not touch it until the downswing. I strongly disagree that MW's caddie failed her, it is more like MW failed herself. After all, she was the one who committed the infractions.
08/05/06 @ 07:19
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Comment from: JR [Visitor]

The relationship between caddie and player is a partnership. When I am in a tournament I expect the caddie to remind me of things as we go along. I expect him to watch my shot and tell me if I made an infraction in a hazard. I'm concentrating on making the shot in front of me and expect my caddie to tell me if I have an infraction wth a marker, stance or address to the ball. The caddie I use in the Philippines once pointed out that a ball had moved after I had removed some branches. I didn't notice since I was looking for the path to hit the ball back into the fairway. We added the appropriate penalty to our cards and moved on. I didn't have any TV cameras focusing on my ball at this amateur event, but I did have the reputation of the game to uphold. I still use him each time I play in the PI and expect him to point out any infractions I might make, so I can look the scorer straight in the eye at the end.

A caddie is more than someone who totes your bag around the course JR. A lot more. We don't play foot wedges or mulligans in tournament golf.
08/05/06 @ 08:15
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Nike has done an excellent job dressing Michelle for events and stocking their retail outlets with the same clothes while she is playing for consumers.

Michelle has participated in selecting and designing the outfits Nike creates.

If you like watching women playing in men's shirts and British Army shorts you have several players to choose from. If you like watching fashionable women playing professional golf your choices are limited to Michelle, Paula, the Korean players or Natalie.

Nike has done an excellent job promoting fashion in sport for the majority of consumers. My quarterly statements attest to that fact. :-)

Nike has definately gotten great value from their investment in Michelle. Have you visited a Nike retail outlet lately? Michelle Wie photos are everywhere.

08/05/06 @ 09:12
Comment from: JS [Visitor]
That's right, Nike wins. So does Michelle Wie. Like her or not, she owns a piece of your mind now. You watch her on TV. You read about her. You seek blogs about her. You talk about her. You write about her. You let her get under your skin. And you can't stop it. You can't shut it down because she owns a piece of your mind. It's a marketing success story. They made you care about it enough to participate in it, to keep the buzz going. She's a multi-millionaire. And you're making her even more money with every word you speak or write about her. She owns a piece of your mind.
08/05/06 @ 10:02
Comment from: David [Visitor]
One-Putt, you made a nice batch of posts. But please, stop blaming the caddy for Michelle's screw-ups.
08/05/06 @ 10:11
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
One-Putt... I think you went off on a tangent. So, from your post I take it that you are a tournament golfer...one who employs a caddie. Fine, let's go that way. You mean to tell me that it would not be YOUR responsibility to know the rules of golf prior to playing? That it is all part of the caddie's job. Isn't that just a tad bit UNPROFESSIONAL on your part???? ie.. passing the buck. Without going any further, I will just say that I strongly disagree with you.
08/05/06 @ 10:14
Comment from: Dew [Visitor]
I agree with JR. Blaming MW's caddy is ridicules. This is Golf 101 folks. MW grounded her club and is responsible for her own actions. You learn this in junior golf. I also play tournament golf... Where can i find Pilipino "SUPER CADDY" ?? Sounds like he could drop my score 4 -5 strokes.
08/05/06 @ 10:25
Comment from: Ronnie [Visitor]
JR what's the problem. Wasn't I supporting your position.

And Judge Smails is right. Those Wie's are a bunch of left wing pinkos.

They should be banned from golf. If they had their way, they would be allowed to give the ball a little kick if they didn't like it's position.

If the Wie's are allowed to continue their acts, then the whole game of golf will be brought into disripute and it won't be considered a gentlemans game any longer.

Hey it's a gentlemans game, girls should even be playing it. Girls are useless at sports anyway.

Why go to watch minor leagues, when the pga is the big leagues.
08/05/06 @ 11:04
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
One-Putt,

IF you are in fact a tournament golfer, you have conclusively proven that to play tournament golf you don't need to know your butt from a hole in the green.

I'll bet you expect the Mens Room attendant to remind you to wipe.
08/05/06 @ 11:42
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
One-Putt said:

"The relationship between caddie and player is a partnership. When I am in a tournament I expect the caddie to remind me of things as we go along."

I wish Ben Hogan was alive to read this one.
08/05/06 @ 12:10
Comment from: TW [Visitor]
In defense of One-Putt:

I think the point he was making is the caddy should have brought it to her attention at the time that she violated the rules and therefore at that point make the decision to add the penalty. If that would have happened then we would only be discussing this issue if it was tried to be covered up. Right, wrong or indifferent she said that she misinterpreted the rule not that she didn't know about it. I think if the caddy would have said something then, because of the last time, she would have a rules offical decide if a penalty was to made. I don't feel she really looks for ways to make bad press. Get real.
08/05/06 @ 13:12
Comment from: Steve Voon [Visitor]
I guess it comes with the territory, if MW wasn't this famous and popular, the camera wouldn't have picked up her shot and we wouldn't be here wasting our time discussing it. MW, please forget about reading these golf rules, there are much more better things for a 16 year old to do than that.
08/05/06 @ 13:28
Comment from: Snot [Visitor]
Booger. The relationship between the player and caddie has changed since Hogan's time, fron servitude to junior partnership or "wife."
08/05/06 @ 13:57
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Snottie,

Did Bubbles divorce her first caddie?

08/05/06 @ 14:21
Comment from: SirSnot [Visitor]
Dougie, that is Sir Snot to you. Learn to address me properly and I may grace you with a real response.
08/05/06 @ 14:42
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
LordSnot,

Yes, but is this evolution or devolution?
08/05/06 @ 15:11
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Snotty,

Please accepy my apology for mispelling your descriptive monicker.
08/05/06 @ 15:32
Comment from: Non golfer [Visitor]
To penalize a golfer 2 strokes for something that doesn't give him or her any advantage is pretty silly to me. But then what do I know?

I just like to watch Michelle and nobody else, not even Annika or Tiger
08/05/06 @ 16:06
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Non golfer,

If allowed, it could easily be a big advantage. Sand wedges would have a rake on the back to sweep away anything that might get between the club and the ball. Most of the rules try to keep the playing field level even when they seem silly. They don't always work but this one has a solid basis. A hazard is supposed to be hard. If you make it easier than the rules allow, you pay even when it seems as simple as kneeling on a towel. (illegal in a hazard)

Your right to enjoy watching whoever you like.
08/05/06 @ 16:34
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
"The chunk of moss was an inch or so behind the ball. Her caddie could not have missed it if he tried. Michelle's caddie (Johnston) is not paid (an average of five figures per tourny) for lugging a bag. The premium he is paid is for his depth of knowledge including his depth of knowledge of the rules of golf. Final responsibilty falls on Wie, and she graciously accepted it. Johnston "blew it" as to his duties as a highly paid pro caddie. Again, I doubt he'll be carrying Wie's bag next year."

The fact that Wie has the final resposibility, does not in any way excuse Johnston. The replay, shown on ABC, makes it clear that the moss was in the way of a normal address and backswing. Johnston should have discussed this impending problem with Wie. The "ball-drop" fiasco at Samsung is another in the growing list of miscommunications between Wie and Johnston.

Joe Cool's interpretation of the "exception to rule 13-4c" was the same as Wie's - that "it doesn't matter what you hit in your backswing as long as you swing through the ball" - this is true in most cases, but not in a bunker. If Johnston didn't know that, he's not earning his huge paychecks.




08/05/06 @ 16:47
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
Have you ever tried to advise a 16 yr old about something that they think they know?
08/05/06 @ 16:51
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Doug
Damn good point. But there are ways to get around such insurmountable odds. An agreement that Johnston can call for a ruling on his own might work.

I don't believe that is the issue. Johnston has a "take charge" personality. So does Wie. I believe Johnston's answer is, "hey, if she won't do as she's told, she'll pay for it."

Have you ever tried that approach with a 16 yr old?

Wie needs a lighter hand on the reins.
08/05/06 @ 17:03
Comment from: Doug [Visitor]
As a father, a scout leader (both boy scouts and girl scouts), a 4-H leader, and a coach I've tried damn near everything. Most work some of the time and all of them don't work some of the time but encouraging kids to take responsibility for themselves still seems to work best. A few of the kids I've worked with actually learned to ask for guidance.
08/05/06 @ 17:17
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
Ghet Rheel... you're at it again I see. As usual, it appears that you are trying to place the blame for MW's penalty everywhere except where it belongs. If the moss was so easy for the caddie to see then MW certainly saw it and yet she still hit it on her backswing.... Why is it that you just can't admit that MW made the mistake on her own AND her fans NEED to accept that. Just stop making excuses... Is it REALLY that hard??????
08/05/06 @ 17:32
Comment from: Lord Snot [Visitor]
Bugger. I would venture that snot/bugger is neither an evolution nor a volution, but a different state of being or moistness. My understanding is that a snot when dried up becomes a bugger. You are free to disagree as long as you address me properly.
08/05/06 @ 17:43
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
JS - GREAT point. That's one of the things I've been saying all along. Most Wie warriors go out and buy all the products they see on TV.

Nike -- and MW -- are laughing at them.They have TV for brains.
08/05/06 @ 17:52
Comment from: TW [Visitor]
JR,

I'm beginning to wonder if you're able to read and if so, can you understand English. I don't see when your responses agree or even relate to what someone says. I think you're the immature one just running off at the mouth. I think you're the one that needs to grow up.
08/05/06 @ 18:13
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
JS and TMc

You're right about one thing. Michelle owns a piece of my mind. I love watching her play. Her swing is the closest I've seen thing to Sam Snead in a long, long, time. We traveled to see her play long before Nike signed her. Does Nike know what they're doing when it comes to mass marketing? Of course they do. The LPGA could learn volumes by studying Nike and SONY - But, of course, they already know all there is to know about mass marketing.

TMc's thought that MW and Nike are "laughing at" their fan base is puzzling. Tim, do you laugh at your readership base? You'd have to be a fool to do that, wouldn't you?

By the way Basher-JR, Michelle thought that she was within the rules to hit the moss on the backswing. She was mistaken, and she said so on national TV. My point is that Johnston does not get 10K+ per tourney for just "totin' a bag". He should have known the rule, and should possess sufficient communication skills to have effectively warned her.

B-JR, we disagree? What's new with that?
08/05/06 @ 18:25
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
A professional caddie is much more than just a looper today. They have become coaches, physcologists, strageticians and full partners in the match.

They may not strike the ball, but they plan the shot with club selection, landing zone and amount of force for the player. The exchange normally goes like this on a shot to a green:

180 plus 18, seven paces right, danger 11 paces right, hit a seven draw with nearly a full swing.

The first subject a caddie learns is the "Rules of Golf" R&A version. This is so they will not cause an infraction themselves that causes a player to add strokes in a round. This also helps the caddie call infractions that may not be noticed by the player, so they can avoid the players disqualification later.

The most important task of a caddie is to reduce distractions for the player so they can concentrate and commit to their shot.

The best players have great relationships with their caddies and consider them big factors in their success. If you think Steve would have stayed silent after he noticed the same thing happening to Tiger you are sadly mistaken. I recall when Steve first started as Tiger's caddie, Tiger was hitting out of some bushes in a hazard and launched a great shot up the fairway. Unnoticed by the crowd, rules official, other players or Tiger himself, he had broken a small branch off an adjoining bush on his backswing.

Steve called Tiger back and showed him what had happened and Tiger added the appropriate penalty (rule 13-4). That was at the start of a great partnership.
08/05/06 @ 19:05
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Before the spelling cops cite me:

psychologists not whatever I typed above :-0
08/05/06 @ 19:10
Comment from: Foot Wedge [Visitor]
One-Putt said,

"A caddie is more than someone who totes your bag around the course JR. A lot more. We don't play foot wedges or mulligans in tournament golf."

......................................

Are you insulting my user name One-Putt? If so, then I will tell you that I call myself Foot Wedge because I am nothing more than a 100 plus player and I use a Foot Wedge when I need to in order to make sure I don't impede the flow of play for my partners or the players behind me. I always add a stroke when kicking out from behind a tree and if I have any weakness, it is adding more strokes to my score then the situation demands.

That to me is sensible golf even though I admit that I do not adhere to the rules of golf.

I have never made a boast that my score will beat my playing partners and I believe that they acknowledge that by asking me out again because they appreciate my company and that I am a "fun guy" rather than judging me by my playing skills.

Having said that, I would like to know why you call yourself "One-Putt".

Perhaps we are a little arrogant, are we, mister tournament golfer?
08/05/06 @ 19:26
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member]
JS - GREAT point. That's one of the things I've been saying all along. Most Wie warriors go out and buy all the products they see on TV.

Nike -- and MW -- are laughing at them.They have TV for brains."

Or they have Nike stock in their portfolio Tim.

Women's Nike golf fashions have see a six percent rise in gross sales per quarter since Michelle joined the team. This figure is slightly higher in the Asian market, about 10 to 13 percent per quarter.

Thank you Michelle from your admiring stockholders. See you at the next annual Sweetheart.

Tim, who is laughing now?

08/05/06 @ 19:34
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Foot Wedge [Visitor]Are you insulting my user name One-Putt? If so, then I will tell you that I call myself Foot Wedge because I am nothing more than a 100 plus player and I use a Foot Wedge when I need to in order to make sure I don't impede the flow of play for my partners or the players behind me. I always add a stroke when kicking out from behind a tree and if I have any weakness, it is adding more strokes to my score then the situation demands."

My intent was to use the term for literary emphasis only Foot-Wedge and were not directed at you personally or at your lack of golfing acumen. I hope you accept my humblest apologies if I offended you in any way.



08/05/06 @ 19:43
Comment from: JR [Visitor]
TW..... foxtrot yankee!!!!!
08/05/06 @ 19:45
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
ISN'T IT AMAZING

A golf tournament, a womens' major with alot of top women near the top of the leaderboard, and people are talking about Michelle Wie who is 11 strokes off the lead.

She got a penalty which cost her just 2 of those shots, hardly a high percentage.

Yet people are still discussing only her and not the players who have really good scores in the tournament.

SO WHAT CAUSED IT?

Is it mass hysteria by Wie fans, wanting to discuss their girl, even if she isn't near the lead in a tournament?

Nope, wrong there. It's the bashers. Despite her relative irrelevance to the tournament's outcome barring a 59 or something in the 4th round, the Wie Basher's just can't let her name go. They want to discuss her continuously, with just short breaks for naps in between.

I would be surprised if a fan of a player had so much dedication, but for a basher to have this is truely amazing.
08/05/06 @ 20:24
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
Comment from: Lord Snot [Visitor]
Bugger. I would venture that snot/bugger is neither an evolution nor a volution, but a different state of being or moistness. My understanding is that a snot when dried up becomes a bugger. You are free to disagree as long as you address me properly.

Actually my savage friend, I was referring to the evolution of the role of the caddie, which I believe to be devolution.
08/05/06 @ 20:34
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
Ghet Rheel said:

"Her swing is the closest I've seen thing to Sam Snead in a long, long, time."

You are a comedian, right? When is your next gig?
08/05/06 @ 20:38
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Norman,

Go back to sleep. Nobody cares what you think anyway. We don't all live our lives around M.W. despite what you think.

When M.W. proves that she is worthy of a Tiger Woods comparison, then I will be more than happy to watch her. Until then, she is just "hype".
08/05/06 @ 20:43
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Booger.....Please enlighten us, when did you last see Sam Snead play?

08/05/06 @ 20:49
Comment from: Visitor [Visitor]
Whoops.....

Sorry, the question should have been put to Ghet Rheel, no offense Booger.

V

08/05/06 @ 20:58
Comment from: TW [Visitor]
JR,

What makes you think I'm a Yankee. :)
08/05/06 @ 21:20
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor]
GHET RHEEL IS CORRECT ABOUT MW SWING...I CADDIED FOR SAM SNEAD AND ALSO GENE SARAZEN BACK IN THE 50,S
08/05/06 @ 21:27
Comment from: nongolfer [Visitor]
Another non-golfer here. Questions for you golfers. I just read two articles from UK about Wie: One said she strikes the ball like a man, the other said she drives "magnificently". So here are my questions (1)Is there anyone in the LPGA who comes close to that? What about Lincicome? It seems that L also hits far. Then, what's the difference between their drives?(2) How does Wie's drive compare to average PGA pros? When they say she hits like a man, does that mean she hits like a non-professional male golfer?
08/05/06 @ 22:58
Comment from: SirSnot [Visitor]
A modern golfer does not have the luxury of playing the same courses over and over. Hence the need for the enhanced role of the caddies.
08/05/06 @ 23:03
Comment from: Booger [Visitor]
I would think the golfers of old played more courses, considering all the exhibitions they used to do.
08/05/06 @ 23:07
Comment from: SirSnot [Visitor]
Booger, the courses today are constantly being remodeled.
08/05/06 @ 23:33
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: SirSnot [Visitor]
Booger, the courses today are constantly being remodeled."

Lengthened and more hazards in play are about the only major modifications to tour events. They won't be happy until the course is 10,000 yards long. Soon after the invention of rocket powered, laser tracking Titleists will mean longer courses are needed..
08/06/06 @ 01:03
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
nongolfer,

It probably means that the journalists are looking for grist for the mill. You know, without hype there's often no story.

Moreover, most of these writers don't know enough about golf to make such a judgement anyway.
08/06/06 @ 01:42
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Visitor

The last time I saw Snead play (in person) was at the 96 Masters par three tourney. He was in his eighties. He swung the club beautifully. Talk about a swing that held up. It was also the first time I saw Woods play in person. He was 20. Almost no one knew who he was.


Joe Cool - is it true that you caddied for Snead? Now that would be cool.

Norman - It is truly amazing that the bashers are on Wie's case 24/7 - Even when she is out of contention in a Major. Did you read this week's Wall Street Journal account of internet bashers? Seems big business (including Exxon/Mobil) uses Big Public Relations firms to infiltrate blogs with their message. They try to make it look like a "Grassroots Movement". WSJ reports that the industry term for such bullcrap is "Astroturf". Any "Astroturds" on our blog?
08/06/06 @ 02:51
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
The case that prompted the WSJ investigation, was Exxon's internet bashing of Al Gore's movie. The PR shills went on blogs pretending to be bona fide commenters, but were really there as professional Bashers. Might explain a lot.
08/06/06 @ 03:07
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
Did Al Gore do a movie? Who knew?
08/06/06 @ 05:00
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
One-Putt

Exxon's PR firm and The Wall Street Journal knew.
08/06/06 @ 07:08
Comment from: nongolfer [Visitor]
Judge Smailes, thanks for the note. Those articles were new, and I thought sober writers will restrain from lavishing praises since Wie is not doing particularly well in the Open and there has been much criticism of Wie lately. The articles were well-written and I was a little surprised that they repeat what has been said about Wie's drive. My guess is that there is some truth in it.

On a different note: Hype is really about attention. Undue criticism also adds to hype.
08/06/06 @ 10:58
Comment from: tasha [Visitor]
Grown ups bashing a 16 year old. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

The Michelle bashing blogs are getting very tiresome and silly. All these righteous bloggers with answers and criticisms for every move that Michelle makes. Do you not have anything better to do?

Do any of you have teenagers in your lives?

She faces tough and often stupid question during the interviews, and whatever tough situations she faces in her fishbowl world, she stays poised and shows that she has a sense of humour that only a 16 year old could have, doesn't whine and keeps on going.

In the meantime, these silly blogger and bashers spend an inordinate amount of time criticizing and making inane observations (ie her ear rings, watches, fashion) of Michelle, but it doesn't change the fact that she is 16 years old and she doesn't seem to play golf too poorly either.

So what if she wears dangly ear rings! (I remember a major league baseball player who was asked to remove his huge diamond studs because the sun shone on them and interfered with another player) and Michelle's earrings don't seem to be interfering with anyone's game. And she isn't the only one with dangly earrings on the tour.

Grow up all of you. Under the cloak of anonymity you are able to say that you are saying, would any of you bloggers have the guts to show up at the media centre and pose those petty comments and questions directly to Michelle? and the rest of you--you need to get a life.

Michelle is the one out there slugging it out, playing golf as hard as she can, and facing the media and doing a very good job of staying above it all.

I have an idea, since all of you are such prolific writers, why don't you take up more meaningful causes against athletes who use banned substances, rape women, or drink and drive and kill people, or any number of illegal activities. Now there's something you can really sink your teeth into.

I am not a "Warrior" of any sort, I just think the bashers of a 16 year old should just leave her alone.

08/07/06 @ 00:32
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Tasha, yes you're a Wie Warrior, a very specific type of Wie warrior and one that I've seen many times. The kind who acts all morally superior, while down there wallowing in the same mud. Do you not see the irony here? Your kind disgusts me most of all.

08/07/06 @ 07:01
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Tim

Defending your right to bash a child in a public forum is a "no win" situation for you. Don't ask your pals in the business - they can't see the forest for the trees. Ask a trusted old friend, ask your priest, ask your mother!

You don't make hurtful comments about children. The stink never washes off.
08/07/06 @ 07:51
Comment from: Alex [Visitor]
Ghet Rheel, Since you're hung up on this "Wie is a child" and "Criticizing her publicly is child abuse", and other such similar nonsense, when, in your opinion, will it be tolerable to write something critical of Bubbles without being accused of a heinous felony?
08/07/06 @ 08:36
Comment from: Bay Golf [Visitor]
*****
Yet people are still discussing only her and not the players who have really good scores in the tournament.

SO WHAT CAUSED IT?

Is it mass hysteria by Wie fans, wanting to discuss their girl, even if she isn't near the lead in a tournament?

Nope, wrong there. It's the bashers.
*****

You're wrong, dummy. Up to now, there were 42 posts by what you incorrectly call Wie bashers (they're really bashing the Wie fanatics like you, Norman -- not Michelle Wie) and there were 50 posts by the Wie fanatics.

Looks like you Wie fanatics are the ones who drive the traffic
08/07/06 @ 09:24
Comment from: tasha [Visitor]
What mud would that be, Tim?

Let me see, which is more disgusting--an "adult" bashing a 16 year old golfer or telling those bashers to leave that 16 year old alone?

Being stuck in high school and playing the bully is not attractive by any means, Tim. No matter how you look at it, your response was quite sad.


08/07/06 @ 10:22
Comment from: Evil Hater [Visitor]
Comment from: tasha [Visitor]
"What mud would that be, Tim?

Let me see, which is more disgusting--an "adult" bashing a 16 year old golfer or telling those bashers to leave that 16 year old alone?

Being stuck in high school and playing the bully is not attractive by any means, Tim. No matter how you look at it, your response was quite sad."

Shut up you freak!


08/07/06 @ 12:25
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
Alex,

Yes, I guess we have to ask what the "age of dissent" is. In Canada, the age of consent is only fourteen, so I don't know . . ..
08/07/06 @ 12:57
Comment from: Shanks [Member] Email
What earrings?
08/07/06 @ 13:58
Comment from: One-Putt [Visitor]
"Comment from: Shanks [Member] · http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/shanks
What earrings?"

Best queation of the week Shanks. :-)
08/07/06 @ 15:02
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Tasha and Get Rheel, so by your reasoning, by virtue of her age, Michelle Wie is above reproach, criticism, analysis, discussion, etc? Man, that girl has it made!

Since you seem to fancy yourselves the moral arbiters, at what age is it permissible to critique a pro athlete?

Seventeen? Eighteen? Voting age? Driving age? 35?

Share with us your high-handed moral wisdom.

08/07/06 @ 16:04
Comment from: shrodr [Visitor]
I guess all those who are bashing Michelle, at 16, for not knowing the rules in this situation, were on the boards killing Annika Sorenstam, a 12 year veteran, when she fixed her lie in a tournament earlier this year, incurring a penalty that may have cost her that championship.

Any 16 year old with Michelle's record in majors would be hailed by most of the people on these boards who are nitpicking her every move, in some kind of fit of jealousy.
08/07/06 @ 17:02
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Amazing how many warriors come out swinging when their hero CHEATS to get out of a bunker.

Wie is now a professional... right?

So, she should be bound by the same expectations of all other professionals, whether 16 or 60. One of the major expectations is that you KNOW THE FRICKIN' RULES! Grounding your club in a hazard is a penalty whether you're in the British Open, playing the local muni, or drinking beers while playing the pitch-and-putt. Not knowing the rule is inexcusable.

By the same token, someone mentioned that the caddie should have noticed the moss behind the ball, and raised the flag. I agree with that too. He ain't just there to lug the bag, he's there to protect his golfer.

And the "she's only 16" crap has to stop. She's a PROfessional now. What would you think if a 30-year old pro player committed the same infraction? Would you say "he's only 30"? Knowing the rules is part of the job for a pro. The first time she cashed a check (from Nike or a golf tournament), she forfeited the "I didn't know the rule" waiver. Did anyone cut Craig Stadler any slack when he was DQed for kneeling on a towel?
08/07/06 @ 18:22
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Tim

At what age is coarse critcism of a young woman "OK"?

My advice to you stays the same. I wasn't joking. Ask your priest, ask your mentor, ask your mom.

Might be valuable info for you.

In the end its your personal choice. You obviously have the writing skills to spin a story any way you like.
08/07/06 @ 18:31
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Amazing how many warriors come out swinging when their hero CHEATS to get out of a bunker.

Wie is now a professional... right?
--------------------------------------

Maybe you better tell Ben Cran and Annika Sorenstam the same thing, Toddy-boyo!

I have seen Annika pull some very questionable stunts like "CHEATING" with banana shots, "CHEATING" when moving turf etc.
She got caught on one when Karrie Webb called her on the "CHEATING" turf move and got away with "CHEATING" when Paula Creamer called her for "CHEATING" on the banana shot.

Ben Crane was DQ'd when he "CHEATED" for signing a scorecard with a wrong score on it.

These are "professionals" and have been "professionals" for a lot of years.

Try to be a little more objective when you accuse anyone of "cheating".
08/07/06 @ 18:49
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
p4p, If you had bothered asking, I would've told you that Annika cheats too (that little disagreement with Paula last year). Ben Crane made a dumb error that others have made many times (proofreading errors are errors of tiredness and laziness). Wie grounded her club in a hazard, and didn't call herself on it. She KNEW she touched the ground on her backswing, but either (a) didn't know the rule (inexcusable), or (b) knew the rule, tried to get away with it (even worse).

Cheating is cheating. I was merely commenting on how the Wie Warriors came out swinging even though she was clearly in the wrong.
08/07/06 @ 19:55
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Those are errors, not cheating. That is what I was trying to get across. Why is it that Tim writes a silly blog about Wie and has all these dumb ass comments when he never said one word about Annika, Ben or any of the rest of the "Professional" players and their unfamiliarity with the rules?

Hits, thats all, just generating hits.

Wie is no more guilty of not knowing the rules than anyone else, but you all have an agenda of your own where Wie is concerned.

And then there is you.... Ben makes an error but WIe cheats. Somehow I don't believe you would have mentioned anyone else and the subject of them cheating without being called on it.
As I said, be objective. Tell the whole story next time.
Same goes for you Tim. There are a whole bunch of professional golfers out there that need to read the rules.
If you are going to give Wie a black eye then tell the rest of the story on how others don't know the rules either, maybe their mummies and daddies and aunties, uncles, cousins could all give lessons to all the PGA and LPGA players.
08/07/06 @ 20:15
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
TC
The Royal and Ancient rules committe determined that she merely incurred a 2 stroke penalty for the bunker infraction. The DID NOT in ANY WAY infer otherwise. Did the R&A rules committe cheat? Must have, in your world.

Gee, if you can't trust the R&A rules committee, who can you trust? Just you I guess.
08/07/06 @ 20:25
Comment from: JS [Visitor]
"They own a piece of your mind" was directed at everyone here, not just the "Wie warriors." One might hypothesize that NikWie's ownership of the "Wie Basher's" minds is far more complete. Afterall, they find no pleasure in Wie's prominence. Or, perhaps, the anger they feel is their pleasure. Maybe that's why they can't let go of it.
08/07/06 @ 21:06
Comment from: George [Visitor]
*****
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member]
Tasha and Get Rheel, so by your reasoning, by virtue of her age, Michelle Wie is above reproach, criticism, analysis, discussion, etc? Man, that girl has it made!

Since you seem to fancy yourselves the moral arbiters, at what age is it permissible to critique a pro athlete?

Seventeen? Eighteen? Voting age? Driving age? 35?
*****

Tim, Get Real told us already, albeit implicity, in another what is the appropriate age and correct year to discuss Michelle Wie, other than to praise her feverishly, SOP for the Wie Warriors.

Get Real said that whatever Michelle does between now and whenever she is the same age that a golfer named Eldrick Woods was when he won his first PGA tournament is of little consequence
(Eldrick Woods is also known as Tiger Woods. This is to assist the Michelle Wie fans who know nothing about golf except what they know about Michelle)

Get Real declares that if Michelle Wie (who is 16 years old) wins between now and when she approximates the age when Eldrick Woods (aka Tiger Woods) won his first PGA tournament, that is "gravy".

If Michelle does not win in the intervening time (being 16 years old, BTW) that is irrelevant, according to Get Real.

That's because Eldrick Woods (aka Tiger Woods) did not win his first tournament until he was 20 years and at least one month of age.

MICHELLE WIE IS ONLY 16. (you can see where Get Real is going with his logic)

(Eldrick "Tiger" Woods was born on the 2nd to the last day of 1975, won tournament #1 in 1996, so I guess he was 20) Therefore, it appears that sometime in 2009, 2010 -- I really don't care enough to do the math -- it is OK to discuss Michelle in a skeptical light.

Also, there could be further Wie constraints placed on us by Get Real, who also made a reference to another professional golfer, Jack Nicklaus. Nicklaus won a number of tournaments over a period of decades. Nicklaus also frequently made the cut on the PGA tour.

It's possible that we cannot discuss Michelle in a skeptical way until as late as 2012. That's because Jack Nicklaus, a professional golfer, now retired, did not win HIS first PGA tournament until he was 22.

MICHELLE IS ONLY 16, BTW.

So it appears we cannot discuss Michelle Wie, except in a fawning manner, until she is approximately 20-plus years of age.

Hope that helps.

-George
08/07/06 @ 21:37
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Again, I admit Michelle owns a piece of my mind. But this happened some time before Nike signed her. Nike's genius is recognizing "IT" before any competitor does. They know star power when they see it.

The critics howled when Nike first signed MJ, TW, and now MW. Does anyone imagine that Nike made anything but a brilliant coup on all three? Poor marketers (LPGA) think they can force feed their chosen product to a mindless public.

Inspired marketers (Nike) early on, see what is capturing the minds of the people, and moves swiftly to pay full value to align itself with that magic.

Money goes where it is appreciated. MJ, TW, and MW are money. Nike appreciated them.
08/07/06 @ 22:19
Comment from: TW [Visitor]
I've just about come to the conclusion that all the Wie bashers are male chauvinist golfers who can't stand the fact that a 16 year old girl is competing in a sport and already making millions at it and could beat them probally anytime they would play. So under the cloak of the internet they do nothing but bash her every little just admire what she is accomplishing and the way she is handling eveything. Has anyone noticed that the only Professional golfers, PGA or LPGA, that consider her a competive opponent never say anything about her unless asked and then it usually is a postive statement. She never makes any comments about anyone, even the ones that do bash her. That's what makes them professionals. So all you Wie bashers enjoy yourself, this is the only way you can keep from embarrassing yourself with your immature egos.
08/07/06 @ 22:44
Comment from: JS [Visitor]
Tim Mac, a serious question here. Why give her all the publicity? Why throw gas on the fire? You've made your point. In your opinion, she doesn't belong out there. If she doesn't belong out there, why does she deserve so much attention at your blog? Like the guy who missed his chance at the US Open qualifier, every week deserving golfers are missing exposure that you could give them. Why not let the Wie thing go already?
08/07/06 @ 23:16
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
p4p, The distinction between "cheating" and "errors" is that most of us KNOW that it is a penalty to ground your club in a hazard. Not knowing the rule as a paid professional is inexcusable, especially in a game based on rules and self-enforcement.

Sitting down with two scorecards and missing where your partner filled in the wrong number is just plain stupid.

I think Ben Crane, Roberto diVicenzo, and any pro who signed an incorrect scorecard is dumb and careless, but it's not the same as NOT knowing a rule, especially one that is taught from the first time we ever set foot in a sand trap. IF and this is a big IF, she honestly had NFI what she was doing, she is merely stupid and not a "cheater".
08/08/06 @ 02:58
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor]
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
p4p, The distinction between "cheating" and "errors" is that most of us KNOW that it is a penalty to ground your club in a hazard. Not knowing the rule as a paid professional is inexcusable, especially in a game based on rules and self-enforcement.

one word for you, Todd.
Bullshit!
08/08/06 @ 07:49
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
TC - The rules committee of the Royal and Ancient made a clear ruling, i.e. MC did not cheat.

Are you saying the R&A cheated in their ruling? Are you saying you know more about the rules of golf, and the infraction at hand, than the R&A rules committee? You're sounding more and more like a fool.
08/08/06 @ 11:53
Comment from: tasha [Visitor]
Wow, getting a rise out of Tim is certainly fun. Sounds defensive to me. Maybe it's bullying too but maybe this is your real job--pity.

If you need to ask when it's appropriate to bash someone, then you are still in the high school bullying mode. Why ask such a silly question. Are you serious?

If, for instance, half of what is pettily written about Michelle is written about you ( for some reason let's say that you become actually good in some areas of endeavor and many decide to target you-heaven forbid!) you will perhaps be in a constantly depressed state, take to drinking, become homeless--wow this is very depressing.

Just by judging from your reaction to my post--you wrote about someone "wallowing in mud" was it? and being "disgusted" with the likes of me. Such brave words. I can only surmise that your life is quite cloistered if you find yourself "disgusted" by such posts.

Tim, in the real world, there is alot to be disgusted with and what Michelle Wie does or doesn't do is not one of them. There are professional and amateur athletes who are being arrested for murder, drinking and driving, illegally betting, use banned substances, some even really cheat in the real sense of the word, shall I keep going? Those things are beyond disgusting.
08/08/06 @ 15:54
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
That's what I'm here for -- solely for your amusment.
08/08/06 @ 16:00
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Oh, Gheet, try reading what I said. If she honestly didn't know the rule, then she didn't "cheat", but she's merely stupid.

Let me ask you this, when you golf, do you kick the ball back into the fairway when you're stymied by a tree? Do you hit multiple putts from the same spot? Do you give yourself a 4 when you really should have a 6?

OK, I "cheated" on the last one. That's what Michelle Wie did. Until she was called on it.
08/08/06 @ 16:22
Comment from: ToddCommish [Visitor]
Sorry, "Ghet".

Oh, and silly me, I just figured out your screen name.
08/08/06 @ 16:24
Comment from: tasha [Visitor]
Thank you, Tim.
08/08/06 @ 19:11
Comment from: john odocherty [Visitor]
what happened between creamer and sorenstam.
08/17/06 @ 05:43
Comment from: Jim C [Visitor]
Annika hit the ball in the water. But where did the ball go out of bounds? Annika maintained that the ball's path took a turn at the last minute eo she was able to take a drop well up the fairway. Paula said that was bunk. Paula's position seemed much more believable--but without proof the player's claim stands no matter how unlikely--or at least it did at that time.

With Jeong Jang's double hit at the US Open there seemed clear evidence of a double hit--but the officials went with Jeong's assertion that she did not double hit it--and then later changed their view. It seems that a willingness to believe almost anything the player says in a situation like this may be a thing of the past.
08/20/06 @ 16:31

Comments are closed for this post.

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