« Tiger Woods better than Jack Nicklaus ever wasPGA Championship at Medinah not acting like a major »

26 comments

Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Was Vladimir Horowitz bad for music? He was bad for concert pianists that lacked his commitment, talent, and genius - but Horowitz was obviously good for music.

I guess I'm tired of watching Phil and Els amble down the fairway 30+ pounds out of shape. Singh stepped up his commitment a few years ago, and gave Tiger a run for his money; but Singh is no spring chicken.

I wonder if the PGA could maintain weekly network broadcasts without Tiger; Tiger IS the mass audience draw.

Tiger is bad for Lefty, Love, Garcia, Els, Goosen, etc. - but GREAT for golf.

08/21/06 @ 21:38
Comment from: Matt Horon [Visitor]
Your argument would be stronger if facts supported it. However, the ratings, record purses, and participation in golf have never been higher. They are all products of the Tiger Woods era.

From a more subjective angle, greatness is never boring. There was plenty of excitement this weekend at Medinah, even if it was lacking suspense.

And comparing team sports to non-team sports is always a bad idea.

Parity in the NFL makes things exciting for fans of all teams, but there are no teams in golf or tennis, and fans don't support so much individuals, as the game itself.

There are plenty of Tiger Woods fans, but there are plenty of fans of the game of golf in general that love nothing more than to see Tiger Woods elevate the game to legendary heights.

Of course Tiger Woods is good for golf. Instead of asking inane questions, perhaps you should sit back and enjoy the ride. In 30 years, we'll all be wishing for another Tiger Woods.
08/21/06 @ 21:40
Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
A) Will Tiger surpass even himself?

B) Will someone topple the greatest golfer of a generation?

If these two questions are asked at every event, then Tiger is good for golf.
08/21/06 @ 21:57
Comment from: Bill [Visitor]
Without the word racist appreaing 26 times following this posting, he is by far the greatest ever to play the "real modern game". He will own every record out there. I question is he good for the game when Mickelson will stand for hours signing autographs, and Tiger signs a few at times and place of his choice? I watched Arnie a few years back at Augusta sign in the parking lot for almost 2 full hours as he was attempting to leave... Nobody left unhappy not to get his X. Not Tiger. He, with all his sponsors $$$ should sign and promote their products in person by the hour, not just on the tube...

In the long run, has his legacy been good for the game? Rememeber when you had to wear a collared shirt to play the game. Class. No more, thanks to Tiger... Followed by Duval and the masses. Now we fight tennis shoes, tank tops, bathing suits, and muscle shirts... Let alone the uneducated as far as rules and proper behavior on the course... Yes with the masses comes the uneducated...

How about his impact on introducing the game to the masses. Where are the masses on the tours? Tiger has been around 10+ years now, yet how many minority players are on the tour, and I don't mean orientals? How about participating in national junior golf tounaments? Where do the minority kids in the ghettos play? Where do they get their equipment? They don't. Yes there is the First Tee, but is it really winning? Every time you see promotion of the First Tee, there are a bunch of white, Polo shirted kids...

Face it, Tiger grew up with a great father who played the game to fit in the white man's world. He fought a brave anti-racist battle, but Tiger was given the opportunity only few will ever get...

I've watched the game for 40 years, and he is by far the best ever since his new way of playing the game, with his head, heart, and ability, but really good for the game....?

I love Tiger, I really do. He can do things no other can. This is one person's opinion and view who has been around the game first hand with club professional status for 20+ years...

Have a great day, and open fire....
08/22/06 @ 09:30
Comment from: Dan [Visitor]
The idea that Tiger Woods is bad for gold is completely ridiculous. The reason we haven't seen more minority players on the PGA tour has more to do with the socio-economic hurdles of a society that is still racist after all these years.

Tiger Woods is easily the best golfer of his generation and possibly the best ever however, the idea that his winning is a foregone conclusion underplays the greatness of his achievements and the high caliber of his competition. There are more great players on the PGA tour than at any time I can remember (I've followed golf closely for around 35 years).

Like a lot of people of my generation, I never thought I would see another player dominate golf the way Jack Nicklaus did in the 70's. The fact that Tiger has come along to do so a mere thirty years later is not only good for golf, it's fantastic for golf and good for sports in general.
08/22/06 @ 10:48
Comment from: Richard [Visitor]
There are two issues that seem to plague the press these days. How does Tiger compare to other great athletes and how does Tiger's domination impact golf.

I think that the answer is the same. Tiger is an athelete who has the ability and charism to to attract everyone towards the game of golf. His ability to dominate so many excellent golfers on the tour in every tournament no matter how well they are playing and to continually improve in his ability is something for all of us to admire and we watch him develop with amazement and awe.

I have watched him grow as a golfer since his amateur days at Stanford, and enjoy every moment of his success whether the field is close to him or not.

Let's stop making comparisons and just sit back and enjoy the show.
08/22/06 @ 10:56
Comment from: Paul [Visitor] [Visitor]
Tim, your August 20 column is completely inconsistent with your August 21 column. How is it that you can extoll the close leaderboard competition of "marquee studs" one day, and then the very next day bemoan the "preordained" result of the PGA? Tiger on his best day (right now) probably can't be beat by anyone playing the game today. But since he is 12 for 40 in majors, he obviously can be beat, and often.

Has Tiger made the field, improve? No doubt. Has he increased global interest in golf? Unquestionably. Has he made an impact on purses so that his collegues earn a better living and give a greater (and not insubstantial) amount to the charities of thier choice? Clearly. Is he good for golf? Are you kidding?
08/22/06 @ 11:08
Comment from: spitfire [Visitor]
I thought this question was dead and buried in 2001, but I see it rears it's ugly head yet again...Tiger's competitors thank him as they, with lame game and minimal effort, become millionaires when they wouldn't in other sports...I wonder if anyone ever asked this question when Jack was dominating...? In a word, No. Which leads me to Buffalo Bill's post above...come off of it, you don't love Tiger, the hatred and animosity is dripping from every sentence...you simply refuse to believe that a minority can dominate a sport that the majority deemed it's own...you hate to see him decimate other white males in the sport you love...and you throw in straight BS about signing autographs and impact on other minorities and (Hunh?) no class...puhlease--like you give a damn about these things...particularly other minorities entering this professional sport...did Jack or your other lily white heroes do anything for minorities--where's the hatred there? Stop being hypocritical--if you don't like the fact that a minority male is dominating this sport like no other, simply say it...have some balls...as to questioning Tiger's class, you're laughable...I guess Fuzzy Zoeller is your cup of tea and John Daly...get a life. Just turn your head when Tiger comes on...you know, you don't have to watch...videotape the events he enters, zip through the video when he comes on and just watch the white males perform...then we won't have to hear your BS masquerading as "loving Tiger"...
08/22/06 @ 11:36
Comment from: Bill [Visitor]
Obviously Old Spitfire you are a minority who has taken offense... I asked not to be seen as a racist, but a person responding to a statement Tim made. But no, don'
t read, immediately cry racism. Fuzzy was 100% wrong. Jack was the best, not tiger is.

When Tiger was asked in a press conference by an oriental did he not like children because Phil signs and he doesn't, guess that was racist too? Tiger's response was I sign on the range, other places are to dangerous. Bull... They have security.

Tim's column was is he good for the game, not is he the greatest of all time? Had you read my comments, you would have seen I acknowlege he is the greatest.

My comments were made regarding what has he done for the game? Exposure is great. He is great for tv ratings. What has he done to promote the growth of the game? The influx of new golfers conming into the game because of Tiger has come to a hault.

He is like MJ, the most hightly recognized figure in sports now. He is the best....

Don't care if he is green, I stated facts, live with it...
08/22/06 @ 11:56
Comment from: Richard [Visitor]
Will Tiger surpass Jack's record of 18 Majors and Sam's 82 wins?

The big question is not "if" or "when", but "by how much". It is becoming quite obvious to me that Tiger is going to surpass Jack and Sam by a huge margin. He could win as many as 25 to 30 majors and over 100 PGA wins. He has gone through several self-imposed slow downs doing swing changes which will probably not keep happening during his thirties which means that his winning percentage will increase. He is a better golfer today than when he was 20 years old so why not expect improvement in the 12 majors and 50 tourmnaments he will win during the next 10 years. Than we have his 40's and VJ hasn't done too badly at age 43. Jack won his 18th Major at age 46. So unless Tiger get's injured or loses interest in golf, we can expect all of the records to be broken by large margins.
08/22/06 @ 12:05
Comment from: Bill [Visitor]
Spitfire...

Thought on my balls, the word I used "class" and your attack calling me a racist. I am Head Golf Professional at a public golf course in a minority section of a large city in the United States. Takes balls to walk out with a bank drop at night. Your are right. Behind the oounter you wonder what day will be your last when some drug addict from the nearby projects decides to take you out for a couple of hundred dollars. That takes balls to come to work. Our outside grounds crew is totally black and hispanic except for one white guy. My golf cart staff is 60% black. Besides myself working inside, I haved two assistants, one is black. Our clientel is 70% black and hispanic, 15% oriental and the balance is white. Could I be a racist and possibly survive here? In 23 years in the business, I have never been a called a racist. Maybe in your ignorant mind I am.

I mentioned the word "class". If in your response you simply read instead of playing the race card, I mentioned how the influx of uneducated in the rules and ettiquete of the game was bring it down. There is nobody in the game who portrays the word class than Tiger...

Maybe in the future, instead of trying to figure how to play the card, read the posting again instead.

My statement was not a question of Tiger or minorities having class. It was the influx of the tee shirts, tennis shoes, tank tops are ruining the image of the game, all which came about around 10 years ago when Tiger started wearing the nice Nike tee shirts. Notice I mentioned David Duval too, and others, they are not minorities...

Can't discuss anything with a closed mind...



08/22/06 @ 12:34
Comment from: Richard [Visitor]
I have read Spitfire's comments several time and it appears that he is trying to say that despite Tiger, minorites have still not bought into the game of golf and that it is still a game for the priveleged few. Based upon the economics of golf this might be true, but I believe that the interest is increasing and with time and economic changes, more and more less priveleged folks will play the game and be successful. Tiger is the best promotor out there today and signing autographs is not the reason why he is attracting more and more kids to the game of golf. I watched his fans at the PGA, and they were little kids, grandmothers, and a complete mix of everyone else pouring out their love for him.
08/22/06 @ 13:41
Comment from: Daniel [Visitor]
Right!

There was not any drama. True the only argument was to watch one of the greatest player of the history.

I think that seeing a player on his way to maybe become the greatest of all times is enough of a reason to watch any golf championship.

No drama? How about the pure beauty of his shots? There are other ways to look at this situation. Almost all are rewarding the golf amateur.

Is any tournament that Tiger Woods enters in totally predictable? Of course not! The guy does'nt have a 100% record. So let's wait and see how or if and when he becomes the greatest of all times. This could already be a good show in itself.
08/22/06 @ 13:58
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Bill
You wrote above:
"Face it, Tiger grew up with a great father who played the game to fit in the white man's world."

Do you really think you can put the above in writing on a public forum, and then insist that no one call such a statement "racist"? Earl was a decorated military officer who played golf for the love of the game, not to "fit in", as you term it. He fit in just fine.

08/22/06 @ 16:09
Comment from: Bill [Visitor]
Hey Ghet..

Thank you for the history lesson of Mr. Woods. I know of him and where they came from, and what they had to endure. Mr. Woods did what he had to to fight racism. Somewhere in the deal I said repeatidly I loved Tiger, and his game. I was called a racist. Regarding a public forum, guess a person is not entitled to his opinion, backed by facts...

There is not doubt which I also said he is the greatest ever. I was called a racist.

Daniel,
Signing is part of the game. Tiger has a problem with it, Phil and Arnie don't.

Richard,
Ever watch golf? John Podunk who won the ABC mini-tour is adored like God. We love a winner. They can be forgotten in a few weeks... In a few weeks, Tiger will find a small flaw in his game, not win, and the media will be crusifying him again...

Guys, Tiger is the greatest, Tim brought up a point with a question. I backed him with facts.

When Greg Norman was #1, was he good for the game? An arrogant Aussie. Duval was #1, a real giver there...

Done trying to defend myself, he is the best, great swing, great mind, beautiful growing ability to manage the course. Approaching all of Nicklaus's reaords again, refocused on golf. But answer Tim, is he really good for the game? Maybe he is if you are Nike, American Express, some watch company, Buick, and countless others. With success go the spoils, I'm happy for him.

Stop avoiding the question... Is Tim a racist for raising that question?

Done...
08/22/06 @ 17:14
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
Bill:

Did you ever golf before Tiger Woods? For Pete's sake when have Tank Tops not been a fixture at local munis? That's a staple of rednecks and drunks, not Tiger's fashion designers. Tiger also looks classier in a shirt sans collar than some of the slouches on tour dressed old-school.

I would agree though, that I thought more minorities would have entered golf. I still don't see anything but white's and Asians out there usually, even at a lot of places around Detroit. Then again, how realistic is it to expect inner city kids to pick up a game that exists in the burbs? If basketball is around the corner and golf an hour train away, I'm hoopin' too.

I would also blame the renovations/ruining of classic courses on technology, not Tiger, either. He just sped up the process a few years.

As far as being dubbed a "racist", anyone who brings up the subject of race for constructive discussion is not a racist. It's a fragile subject and is sure to freak people out unduly. Haven't read all your posts, but I don't see anything hateful.
08/22/06 @ 18:13
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Bill

I didn't call you a racist. I think your COMMENTS could be construed as racist and are certainly racially insensitive. I see a distinction there, though fine.

As to Woods'signing autographs - TW has had repeated death threats against him for years. These threats are taken seriously by law enforcement. Any security detail that repeatedly permitted large unvetted groups to gather close to Tiger would (and should) be fired on the spot.

To answer your last question - Saw nothing in Tim's blog that was racist in any way.

BTW:
You opened your first comment with:
"Without the word racist appreaing 26 times following this posting..."

And closed with:
"Have a great day, and open fire...."
You had some notion that your comments might be seen as racially insensitive, right?
08/22/06 @ 19:02
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor]
This is sick. So, you speak the truth, and because you didn't bow down at the altar of political correctness your remarks are branded as "racially insensitive." Ghet, you're an idiot.

I really couldn't care less about our modern version of "sensitivity." Offense cannot be given, it can only be taken. If you can't live with what I have to say, blow your brains out.
08/22/06 @ 21:55
Comment from: Merrin [Visitor]
Before this goes any further I must interject & say Bill--PEOPLE are Asian. End tables, The Express, the trading Company & other inanimate objects are Oriental.
I realize that may be too 'politically correct' for you or Judge Smails, but it's a basic thing.

Also, you blame Tiger for not introducing golf to minorities, but that is a lie. Trust me when i say, I SEE tiger Woods' impact. Before he came into his own, I doubt the average African American person living in the United State really thought golf had a place for anyone who looked like them on such a large scale. The PRECEDENT that had been set in golf for decades prior was not even questioned. Tiger forever smashed the notion built on years of racism in less than a decade.

As far as blaming him for young AA & latino kids not picking up golf clubs...PLEASE go to East NY, Brooklyn & tell me how a kid goes about playing golf. But the equipment is still expensive, the GOLF COURSE is still somewhere out in the suburbs, it is impossible for him to get to it when his school doesnt even have an adequate gymnasium much less a PROGRAM for such a wealthy sport like golf. The revolution is that he KNOWS who Tiger Woods is, he knows he CAN do it, that there is a place for him if he can find the opportunity. Before Tiger that really wasnt..tangible. It also raises awareness so that when he has a choice golf is an interest. The same thing Venus & Serena did for Tennis.

Baseball, one of the four major sports, is going through the same exact issues of bringing the game to the inner cities, and they face the same obstacles...its too expensive. However,a basketball game is ready with a milk crate & a cheap ball. Baseball is a wealthy entity onto itself, if they are making such slow progress, why do you think TIger should 'have' more minorities in the PGA already? He is 1 man.
08/22/06 @ 23:56
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Thank you, thank you, thank you, JS!!! You'd not clarified your opinion of me before, and I was beginning to worry that people might get the MISTAKEN IDEA that we agreed on something. Thanks again, sweetie!
08/23/06 @ 00:01
Comment from: Tim McDonald [Member] Email
Paul, you're wrong. Those two blogs prove my point.

It's exciting to see so many marquee names in close competition.

Tiger pulls away from the field, wins going away.

Would you rather have seen that, or seen him, say, birdie the 18th to eke out a dramatic, one-shot win over DiMarco and, let's say Mickelson?

08/23/06 @ 06:09
Comment from: Dan [Visitor]
One little coment about Tiger signing (or not signing) autographs. I have been to a lot of golf tournaments over the years and I can honestly say that I have never seen a player get the attention that Tiger gets on the course. I saw Nicklaus in his prime and he didn't have to deal with people yelling at him as he walked from every green to the next tee. Begging for autographs, asking for his golf ball, shouting his name. This goes on during the final round of tournaments. Last year at Firestone, in a very close tournament that Tiger won, the crowds around him were larger and more rude that I had ever seen. Why doesn't he sign very many autographs? Because he can't. He is there to win a tournament and play golf to the best of his ability. I've talked to other people who have gone to practice rounds and have been able to get Tiger's autograph, have their picture taken with him etc.

Tiger is a bigger celebraty than golf has ever seen, far more famous than any of the other players on the tour. Because we often think we "own" celebraties, they sometimes have to shut us out so that they can do the job that made us love them in the first place.

From everything I can tell, Tiger seems like a good guy who is more famous than he could have ever imagined. People should give him a break.
08/23/06 @ 10:42
Comment from: CB Maxwell [Visitor]
Tiger was asked at the PGA final press conference by a Chinese visiting journalist about signing autographs...and Tiger simply said, it was really about the safety of the crowds when he stops to sign...he said, it is dangerous and people have been stampeded. It is NOT about the money.
08/23/06 @ 14:32
Comment from: Ghet Rheel [Visitor]
Maxwell

Tiger Made the proper public relations comment - that is was dangerous for the crowd... and maybe so. But the continual threats against his life is the most pressing concern for security details. They keep him moving, and don't permit large crowds to get close to him - basic security 101.
08/23/06 @ 16:32
Comment from: Big J [Visitor]
Tiger rules
08/24/06 @ 02:11
Comment from: Richard [Visitor]
Well, it is quite obvious who rules the PGA tour and why Tiger's presence in Ireland is so important to the American's Ryder Cup team performance. Right now, he and Furyk are an unbeatable team. Hopefully Phil will get his golf game back on track and perform well with Chris D. The remainder of the team I think will also play well, but I wish Davis Love had been selected.

Is anyone excited about the American Express Championship being held at the Grove near London after the Ryder Cup It seems like a course well suited for Tiger. There is even a 499 yard par 5 besides three other reachable par 5's. Here it is:

http://www.thegrove.co.uk/golf/course.html
A boomer's paradise.
08/28/06 @ 13:17

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