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Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email
10/12/07 @ 13:18
Comment from: JTW [Visitor] Email
putt4par: Here is a question, in your opinion, what should Wie do now?

10/12/07 @ 13:30
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email

She's got lots of money.
She should do Stanford and go have a nice life.

10/12/07 @ 14:47
Comment from: liberty [Visitor] Email
I've been under the impression from some of the things this gal has said that she's a tad bit delusional. What she shoud do now,if she is not already doing so, is find some counseling to help her figure out why she thinks she can play golf.
10/12/07 @ 14:48
Comment from: R.L. [Visitor] Email
I questioned her exemption just the other day somewhere. She was coming off a 17th place finish in this last year. Some hard working tour regular should have had that spot.

I still lay this at the feet of her parents and and entourage. She is just a kid and a sheltered and pampered one- and I'm sure pretty messed up over all this.

QB Chad Pennigton of the jets said the other day he has been good this year except for maybe 5 plays. That is a page from Michelle combine handbook. As for myself, if you take out the 4000 mistakes I've made in my life , I would be Warren Buffet.
10/12/07 @ 15:25
Comment from: Oui Oui Oui [Visitor] Email
The only respectable thing left for the guillable media to do is to leave Wie along and do not report on her.

This blog is a good start.
10/12/07 @ 15:44
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email
R.L. and Oui. Now you are talking sense.

Just refuse to report it, ignore it and eventually the Hype has to die. If no one is talikng about the "phenom" then Nike et al will have to drop their hype machine. You can't sell it if no one wants it.

Judge was right in that the Media keeps the hype alive, and these blogs are just as bad.
10/12/07 @ 15:55
Comment from: JTW [Visitor] Email
Two Good Movies about the media "Ace in the Hole" and "Blood and Sand".

In both it is still about greed.
10/12/07 @ 16:38
Comment from: liberty [Visitor] Email
at the professional level I should have added......
10/12/07 @ 17:05
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email

We agree that the hype was gratuitous. So, and I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I hope you will cede that you over-estimated her abilities until recently.
10/12/07 @ 17:57
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email
lol, as did a great number of people.

She does have the ability, she has proven that.
As for the will to use it???
Now that is a question being answered as we converse. I don't know the family or the player personally nor do I have any wish to know them... But hazarding a guess, I'd have to believe that she really doesn't care in spite of what she says in the interviews.

If IMG, Samsung or any of the parties involved in this tournament were at all caring about their own reputations, they'd have rescinded the invitation based on her perform after it was issue and prior to the beginning of the tournament.
You have to wonder just what they were hoping to achieve. If it was to watch MW humiliate herself then they succeeded. By the same token, they have made themselves appear foolish.
10/12/07 @ 18:14
Comment from: JTW [Visitor] Email
It is such a shame.

I sure would like to know what her current focus is in golf. Is she at all serious or has she completely given up and is just there for the ride till it ends. Could Sony even be thinking of an exemption?! Can anyone? She was the highest paid women in sports in 2006!

It would be good for her to give it a rest and if she wants to prove that she can play then go to Q school one day and earn it.

I think the good news is that she doesn't seem to have due to the failure & pressure of it all; fallen off the edge completely like some other well known child diasters.

10/12/07 @ 18:32
Comment from: smudge [Visitor]
First, I'm not sure she has the ability. I mean I can hit a couple amazing golf shots a round. I mean truly amazing shots. But it takes 68 or 69 of those a round, and not 79 or 80 to make a truly good golfer. Now who is to blame? Without discounting the Nike machine, BJ and his wife, and the media...how about Leadbetter. Holy crap, I mean who is he teaching right now that has anything going for them? Look at poor Charles Howell. Shows how weak the field is this week as all the Golf Channel had was talking about how crap his season has been since his win. Another Leadbetter student. I think Leadbetter is good for a technical player, one with not much natural talent, but try to put his technical mumbojumbo on a natural talent and what do you get. Michelle Wie. The worst player of the year, by far.
10/12/07 @ 18:40
Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
Remember when Wie revealed her dislike of practice? That if her mom didn't push her, she wouldn't do it? Guess that chicken came home to roost. Can't force someone to like practice, but you cannot improve without it. Osmosis won't help her. Unless she commits to a practice and training regimen, she is toast. I think that she owes Nike some of that money back if she continues to stink up the joint with 79s.
10/12/07 @ 18:47
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
First thing she do is quit Stanford.
Then she should practice.
Then she should make a big schedule of tournaments.
Then she should play those tournaments and play her way into form.
10/12/07 @ 20:54
Comment from: Art [Visitor] Email
Your kidding, aren't you Jack??
She couldn't even Qualify. You sound like the top men at Nike. Is it denial, delusion, or self deception??
10/12/07 @ 23:03
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
Nike should continue to throw away their money on Wie-Wee sponsorships (maybe they will go broke - ha).

Even though Wie-Wee should quit playing golf, her only hope of playing on Sunday is exemptions to events like Samsung and Evian, where there is no cutline --- if she does not withdraw. Come on 88!
10/13/07 @ 06:30
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
John D.,
Your knowledge of golf is inferior. There is a cutline at the Evian and she made the cut there.
10/13/07 @ 09:12
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

You are certainly entitled to your opinions. Your obviously is that higher education is not at all improtant or even desirable. Fine. But I can assure you that your take is not shared by at least 95% of those folks living in developed nations.

You say that Miss Wie should practice. According to golf aficionado Stanley and Miss Wie herself. she does practice daily, moreso now than previously in high school.

You further state that she should make a big schedule of tournaments. But since she is not an LPGA member or a memner of any other tour, there is no way that she can do this.

And finally you say that she should play these tournaments and sharpen her game. Most people, even her stauchest fans, think that she has been subjected to too much pressure and that pressure has affected her play. You, however, want her to be under even greater pressure. To your way of thinking, she hasn't been under the gun enough.

You should have been a drill instructor at Parris Island or coxswain on a slave galley.
10/13/07 @ 11:34
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
Stanley is just a poster on a message board. What would he know about how much she practices?

I didn't say that higher education wasn't good, but it is of no benefit to professional golf. Many top golfers have proved this.

The next few years are very important in Wie's golf development. If college is important to her it can wait. Golf cannot.

Your idea that someone can take time away from the game and come back playing great, shows your inferior knowledge of golf.

Nobody gets better by just heading off and doing something else. You get better by practicing.

She has had so many distractions because she wants to be the best woman player, wants to be competitve with the men players, wants to be the hottest girl out there with the best clothes, wants to be a great student, wants to have fun, travel all over the place, wants to be rich, wants to do her sponsors commitments.

Alex, golf ain't easy. I know this because it is my profession. Your profession is law and if I have a question about law, maybe I will consider asking you about it.

My golf knowledge is far superior to yours. I know many great players and I know people who used to be great players, and that takes dedication Alex, and it doesn't take dedication to reading books about law, business, math, or anything like that. It takes dedication to the game of golf.
10/13/07 @ 15:04
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email

I call BS on you.

Practice isn't enough. In fact, many a professional will tell you that when your mind is not in the right place, practice can be detrimental. Practice doesn't make perfect...only perfect practice makes perfect.
Ms. Wie's head is in a bad place, and only some time off the competitive stage, and away from the media scrutiny, will give her a chance to re-enter the highest levels of the professional women's game. Personally, I think she is well-beyond that point, but only time will tell.

And hey bub, just because someone's "profession" isn't golf, doesn't mean they don't know anything about it. I have played a long time, and seen many a "professional" not worth their salt. So you're going to have to prove yourself to me.
10/13/07 @ 16:11
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

Jack is a very smart guy. He must be. He admits as much.

I like his assessment that education is of no benefit to golfers.

I wonder if he thinks the converse of his premise is true.

I'm a fairly well-educated man, and I'd say that golf is beneficial to me, even if I do have a 14 handicap.

And Stanley, I'd say it's time to throw down the gauntlet to Jack.

He has pointedly said that you don't know how much Miss Wie practices.

He says he is a pro, and you're in the golf business, so have at it, Stanley.

Alex USMC 1969-73 Semper Fideles
10/13/07 @ 16:58
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
2 Under,
You are also showing your lack of golf knowledge.
You did show a small bit of knowledge in one comment you made but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

So you should keep your mouth shut and stop making a fool of yourself.
Here is your comment that ALMOST made sense:

"Practice isn't enough. In fact, many a professional will tell you that when your mind is not in the right place, practice can be detrimental. "

That is correct and you listened well, Mr 2Under. You listened to those words well enough to repeat them but you did not understand them to their fullest.

Take the little bit "when your mind is not in the right place".
Now Mr 2 Under, your golfing knowledge may be lacking, but you should still be able to understand this.

Do you think that if someone goes to college, and starts going to lectures, and studying for exams and worrying about those exams, could you bring yourself to draw the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, that person's mind would not be in the right place to then go play in a high quality tournament.

2 Under, you don't have to be a golf expert to understand this basic principle.

What Michelle Wie needs to do is quit college and clear her mind of that kind of nonsense. Then she can concentrate on her job. Her job is golf, she is a professional golfer. Not an amateur golfer, but a professional golfer.
10/13/07 @ 17:36
Comment from: John D [Visitor]

As of late, Wie-Wee is not even classified as a professional...Hell, she can't even beat the amateurs.
10/13/07 @ 18:18
Comment from: Art [Visitor] Email
Deep down Bubbles knows She's done. Her tee's shots are so jerky. It seems like she's missing on purpose. That's how screwed up her mind is. It's out of control.If she slowed down she probably could stay in the fairway most of the time. And if she wasn't in the fairway she would not be in parking lots, water, or 50 yards out of bounds.
10/13/07 @ 18:27
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

Our pal Jack sounds a little like the camp boss in "Cool Hand Luke."

In his opinion, Bubbles has got to "get her mind right."

It must be a full moon for Jack to become so enlightened.

Either that or he's been hitting the sauce.
10/13/07 @ 18:35
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email
Alex, I think Jack is wrong but for an entirely different reason.
It has always been my belief that to excel and win in any sport, you need to have that burning in the belly. There has to be that "need" to win before you can even get close to the top.

Watching Michelle this last tournament and the last tournament in she played in Edmonton made me wonder about that.
Watch her body language. It goes along with that lackadaisical attitude she has during interviews.
She just doesn't seem to care. Very simple. Quitting college would mean nothing to her at this point. She isn't going to win a thing unless her "need" changes. That burning in the gut that creates a winner.
No, she has lost that and until she gets it back, she should do the college thing.
10/13/07 @ 21:02
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email

I could tout my credentials as an athlete and competitor, but I'll cut to the chase. You have to understand Bubbles' psychological profile, and I have elaborated on this before. She doesn't like pressure; thus, she doesn't WANT to devote herself completely to golf because then she would have no excuses and the pressure would be even greater.

Why, Jack, do you think she always liked playing in echelons above hers? In other words, adult tournaments when she was a junior, men's events despite being a female. It's because psychologically she had nothing to lose. If she did poorly, it was, well, she is only a girl or only 14, 15, etc. And if she did well, why, she was a golfer for the ages.

Jack, this is why her best performances have come when she was in just such a situation. Think about it: Her only win of note was an adult event when she was 13, and her best showing in a men's event was when she was 14. She needs the built-in excuse, or she crumbles.

In my judgment, this is the main reason her game has gone south. As she has aged (I won't say "matured") and gained experience, the excuses have been harder to come by, causing her to feel more pressure with each passing event. In fact, I venture to say that deep down she is deathly afraid of the prospect of devotion to the LPGA Tour, for then there wouldn't be any excuses left on which to fall back.

No, Jack, her problem is between the ears, nowhere else. And until she experiences the requisite internal change, success on any tour will elude her.
10/14/07 @ 06:07
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

I agree with you completely on this one. If Miss Wie goes on to take college seriously, it can't help but have a salutory effect on her bruised psyche.

What Jack and a few others don't grasp is that she is a teenage female, perhaps the most fickle and emotional of God's creatures.

Getting away from the golf scene, her parents, and the limelight can't help but benefit her mental well-being. And that should be the main concern of her parents and handlers, and even her devoted fans.
10/14/07 @ 08:14
Comment from: Stanley [Visitor] Email
I have no problem with Jack questioning how much I know about Wie's practice.
I was just quoting that she said she got to practice more than at High school.

The main reason I don't mind Jack critisising my comments is that he is spot on when it comes to college.

A professional golfer is wasting their time at college.
An amateur golfer is a different situation. They can play with the team and they play plenty of competitive golf with the college team.

It is important for golfers to play tournament golf. That's the way to build consistancy and improve.
10/14/07 @ 13:08
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
Judge, good point. I never thought about that side of it.

I'll probably steal that from you at some point.

10/14/07 @ 13:52
Comment from: francois [Visitor] Email
I agree with Judge on this one -- the problem with Michelle is not physical, but in her head and heart. She has always been in a no-losing situation, playing "up" if you will. When there is no pressure and she is not expected to win, she does well at times. If she does not, well...she was not supposed to. Take the start of today's round for example -- at the moment, she is -3, the best score in the field. She has nothing to lose because she was dead last! A player does not shoot that well if he or she is not 100% physically. Between her ears, and in her heart, is a different story...

At least this will give her fans something to cheer about!
10/14/07 @ 13:59
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
My golfing knowledge has proved superior again.

Her 4th round proved just how rusty she was in earlier rounds. There she had some wedge shots that she really made a mess of. That's what can happen with lack of competitive play.

As she got more used to the conditions she started to play better and she shot under par in the 4th round, significantly better than the other 3 rounds.

That just proves my point.
She should quit Stanford and play full time golf. She is a professional golfer.
10/14/07 @ 16:12
Comment from: francois [Visitor] Email

That is really funny!

This only proves that although she does, indeed, have the potential, and physical capability to do well, she does not have what it takes when the pressure is on. Today, when it was meaningless she played well. It also proves that there is nothing wrong with her physically, just mentally! Either way, she needs a break from golf. Don't let one round fool you!

On the other hand, perhaps you should contact the Wies and sell them your "superior" knowledge and get their daughter back on track. Just imagine how much money you could make! You will be very rich! Or did you miss your chance already? I am not sure that Nike and the others are going to throw millions their way again. Unless...you do your thing!

10/14/07 @ 16:22
Comment from: Art [Visitor] Email
I thought Jack's problem was that he drank too much. Now I realize he has much deeper problems
Judge Snails is so right. If anybody here has been keeping track She told everybody in an interveiw years back that she could beat her Father because he chokes real bad. Emotions like that are Genetic.
She will never ever be a champion. She can doo well, but She will never ever be great.
10/14/07 @ 16:52
Comment from: Josh [Visitor] Email
MW is as delusional as that guy al-Sahaf from the Iraqi Information Ministry.

10/14/07 @ 17:09
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email

Your ramble makes no sense whatsoever.

When you hit the ball 50 yds off line, and into a hazard with a rescue wood, it isn't her swing alone causing that. Negative thoughts have crept in, and taken hold, of her mind.

Johnny Miller developed the yips with his putter. Ian Baker-Finch developed the yips with his driver. Both admit to the mental aspect of their golfing woes. Practice alone won't solve Ms. Wie's mental issues.

Dottie Pepper admitted to it herself on the broadcast today. She needs time off the game, away from the media scrutiny.

So Jack, unless your last name is Nicklaus, or you can somehow produce some respectable credentials to the competitive aspect of the game (beyond KNOWING people), I would keep your piehole firmly shut.
10/14/07 @ 18:37
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Oh...and Jack...the reason her 4th round was "better" isn't due to her overcoming "rustiness"...it's because she finally got over her concern of scoring, and just went out to play the game.

She can re-learn the game at Stanford.

10/14/07 @ 18:40
Comment from: putt4par [Visitor] Email
I fervently hope that no one lets her play in the money tournaments again until she can prove she is ready, willing and able to compete.

Compete! not fiddle away 4 days in the manner in which the past 4 days were spent.

She did no favors to herself, to Women's golf, to the LPGA and especially to all the young girls that just might have benefited from her presence in tournaments.

Take a break Michelle. If and when you can prove that you are serious about the game, then go qualify the right way. Q-School.
In the mean time, Let's hope you are serious about College. Don't waste that too.
10/14/07 @ 18:50
Comment from: raymond [Visitor] Email
I hear people talk about Q-School but she already thumbed her nose at it. She needs to learn that exemptions don't grow on trees and she needs to earn her way in. Hopefully the elite events don't give her sponsors exemptions next year because she doesn't deserve them. Play your 6 exemptions next year and head to Q-School.
10/14/07 @ 22:13
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Thanks, Tim. I probably have pondered these matters more than most anyone, as I used to be a professional athlete and, since I came to realize that success rested more on the mental than the physical and technical, set out on a course of introspection and self-improvement.

And I'll tell you something else, although many more will scoff at this assertion. There is little question in my mind that her "physical" problems are psychogenic; they are a result of the pressure she feels, to put it simply. Because of this, I predict that we'll see a series of "injuries" as the Bubbles saga unfolds. (Note: If your symptoms are psychogenic, it does not mean you're malingering; the pain is real but the injury is not.)
10/15/07 @ 00:01
Comment from: Art [Visitor] Email
Jack. You need to dry out.
10/15/07 @ 01:30
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

Using that "superior golfing knowledge" of which you boast, eplain to us ignorant peasants exactly how Bubbles could play competitive golf full time.

She blew off "Q" school, perhaps chickened out would be a better description. She is therefore not an LPGA member. She is not a member of any other tour.

Where and when would she be able to play golf full time? You must know since you have "superior knowledge." Let's hear it.
10/15/07 @ 09:26
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email
There are various tours who would love to have her play.
The ladies european tour for example have rules where they can hand out a tour card to anyone they like. Women's golf is not as popular as mens golf, or maybe you hadn't noticed.

There are also fine ladies tours in Korea and Japan and those events would love to have her.

Even if she ignored the lpga tour, those other 3 tours would actually be competing, wanting her to play their events.

The level of play is also significantly lower on those tours, so even if she played poorly for a couple of events, she would probably still make the cut, giving her more competitive play.

I have no doubt that if she quit Stanford and played on those tours, she would easily compete for and probably win lpga majors in 2008.
It would also be joyous for committed fans such as yourself to analyse her results in various events.
10/15/07 @ 12:28
Comment from: R.L. (Ducks) [Visitor] Email
I have always been a cynic about Wie achieving permanent stardom. But she did play well at certain tournaments- even majors. She probably has that negative programming in her head that probably did not allow her to have a chance to win any of those. Hard to fathom how her game fell this far. It really has to be mostly mental. It really is similar to Duval. But David did win tournaments.

In yesterday's interview, Wie actually sounded "slightly" more mature. Maybe moving from 1 on a scale of 10 to maye 3. Actually Wie's game is "back." Unfortunately for her, Angela Park is playing it these days. And for full disclosure, If any of you recall me from a few months back, you know I'm a Pressel fan. She has had a very spotty few months but she grinds it out and I think her game will continue to improve.
10/15/07 @ 13:18
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

What is it that you're injesting?

Is it crystal meth? LSD? Absinthe?

If you actually believe the drivel you just posted, you are in desperate need of re-hab.

Get yourself on the waiting list of the Betty Ford clinic. And hurry!
10/15/07 @ 13:38
Comment from: Norman [Visitor] Email
Hi, the college discussion is interesting. I played college golf myself via scholarship.

As regards, Michelle and whether she should leave Stanford, I will give my honest and informed opinion.

When I attended college I played with the team, we played events every other week, we practiced with each other and with coaching staff. Everything was organised, trips to events, places to stay, so it was all easy.

I honestly don't know how a pro at college could work. For an amateur, as I said it is easy and playing tournaments is easy because it is all well orgainised.

In order to play professional events, a student would have to take more time off and it just makes things more difficult in general.

And for the people who say she should take some time away from the game, that is nothing short of ridiculous and shows that you really don't know anything about golf at the professional level.

Nobody improves their game by taking that much time away.
When a pro discusses taking some time away from the game, it may be a month away from touranment play, but even then, he will start practicing again after 2 weeks. It is of no benefit to take time away from the game.

And to those who say, just don't play tournaments but keep practicing, that does not work so well. You need to play competitively in order to know where your game is at. It is also much easier to practice, when you know when your next tournament is. It makes it easier to focus on the job.

If she stays at Stanford for two semesters, she should play at least 6 tournaments during those semesters, and that is just the bare minimum. Anything less, and it is neglecting her professional career, and if she does that, her sponsors won't be long in telling her, that is not good enough.

I have found sponsors to be very understanding when a player is not playing well or is off form, but they will not take kindly unless a player plays a reasonable number of tournaments.
10/15/07 @ 18:46
Comment from: R.L. (Ducks) [Visitor] Email
This is more of a technical question. I think most of you probably can fill me in on another theory.

With the exception of Els and maybe Cink, how many really good players are tall as far the PGA tour goes? Could some of Wie's problems also stem from the fact she is too tall now to be a decent player on the LPGA tour.

As I've watched her struggle, I of course realize her head is not on level at the moment. But what about her mechanics because of her height?? I'd like to hear what you guys might think.
10/15/07 @ 20:37
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email

Is your last name Fell? We have another one from "Three's Company" on the board.

When did you play college golf? Do you know how uber competitive a Div I school is these days? And your written points show that you haven't really truly read any of the previous posts.

So why don't you go join your boy Jack for a drink? I tend to think Absinthe may just be the drink of choice for you two...
10/15/07 @ 21:48
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

Maybe sponsors and those paying endorsement fees have something to say with the careers and schedules of mere mortals.

But if we are to believe the statements of one of the premier Wie Warriors on these threads, Bubbles is immune from such meddling.

One-Putt, a man who knows all the inner workings of the Wie machine, has said many times that Bubbles alone negotiated all the conditions of her contracts with Nike, Sony, et al.

She and she alone determines when and where she plays golf according to One-Putt and others.

As you previously stated, caddies and agents are expendable where Bubbles is concerned.

And sponsors may also be disposable if, as another Wie-wee named Stanley has asserted, Bubbles has already been offered more than twice the number of allowable exemptions for the 2008 LPGA tour.

Their message is that Bubbles is the biggest attraction in women's golf, and that sponsors will be flocking to her regardless of how she plays or how often she plays.

Don't argue with these fellows. They are insiders and they KNOW.
10/16/07 @ 07:34
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

Three other tall players come readily to mind: Vijay Singh, Thomas Bjorn, and Bob Tway.
10/16/07 @ 08:41
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email

After a bit of research, I came up with these stats:

Steve Jones, Greg Owens, and Matt Kuchar are all 6'4".

Davis Love, Nick Faldo, Bubba Watson, D.J. Trahan, John Senden, and J.J. Henry are 6'3".

Past major champions Tom Lehman, Geoff Ogilvy, and JIm Furyk are 6'2".

Of course, they are men and perhaps they are not affected by their height.

Previously, many admirers of Bubbles and her golf game were of the opinion that her abnormal height was a distinct advantage.

I personally have no opinion on the subject.

Incidentally, the most common heights among male golfers seem to be 6'0" and 6'1".
10/16/07 @ 11:43
Comment from: Joe Cool [Visitor] Email
MW never took her injury serious and her rehab was a real joke. She must have read the Power of Positive Thinking one hundred times to think the way she thinks. She will have nine bogeys, two doubles and a triple and state at the press conference that she hit "a couple" of bad shots...delusional? I think so. I am certain that she still feels that in 2008 she will continue getting the exemptions that she has received in the past. Like it has been said...power corrupts and money is the root of all evil. Oh, by the way Bo, you do not have to cut the food for Michelle in the Stanford cafeteria, she can do that herself...I think.
10/20/07 @ 14:14
Comment from: Jay [Visitor] Email

Why don't you drop Michelle Wie topics ? It is getting old.

Readers want to read about the hot Suzann Petterson. She is on a roll nowadays.
10/27/07 @ 15:17

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