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46 comments

Comment from: Kiel Christianson [Member] Email
To be fair, a good number of men probably do think that. They're wrong, though, and can learn more from pfo women's swings than pro men's swings.
10/25/07 @ 17:30
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Kiel,

Any good number of men that think men are stronger physically than women are absolutely correct.

Metrosexuals and other pansies like you, in your desires to be politically correct, are dead wrong.
10/25/07 @ 18:04
Comment from: Ron Mon [Member] Email
Is it a spade or is it a shovel? And Alex, how tough are you, really? What does it take to call a guy a pansy? Can't you do better than that? In your rash attempt (as opposed to "desire") to be Judge Smails Junior, you reveal yourself to be a premature ejaculator of misplaced verbiage.
10/25/07 @ 18:42
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Ron Mon,

You don't want to know how tough I am.

It doesn't require any toughness to call Kiel a pansy. He is one.

You I'm not sure of.

But if the shoe fits, wear it.
10/25/07 @ 21:39
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Ron Mon,

If you believe Alex to be using words improperly, or out of context, I believe he would just be a plain, old "ejaculator". Using the work "premature" changes the context, and would suggest something entirely different.

10/26/07 @ 08:46
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
Oh yeah, Alex is a real tough guy -- on paper. Or the screen, to be more precise.

I'm taking Kiel in a fight, even never having seen Alex. I've met Kiel. The dude is pretty big. I'm betting Alex is a wormy sort of guy who likes to talk tough when he knows he won't have to back it up.

As far as the ladies, of course they're weaker, but that doesn't mean their tournaments are less exciting.

Would you rather see a heavyweight fight, where one fighter is clearly out-matched, or a couple of evenly-matched lightweights?

10/26/07 @ 09:20
Comment from: Kiel Christianson [Member] Email
OK--since we cannot expect rational
responses from people like Alex, let me spell it out. Here's the comment I was referring to:

"However, some men refuse to study female players' swings or their game plans probably because they think women are weaker than men."

Alex, as abrasive as he is, is right: on average, men are stronger (esp. in upper body) than women. The part I was judging as "wrong" related to the first part of the quote, where it states that men refuse to study women's swings. I've been to plenty of LPGA and Futures Tour pro-ams, and have almost never seen a swing by any amateur male that stacked up to the professional women's swings.

That's why I'm betting little guys like
Alex don't like watching women (much less playing with them--double entendre intended):
They get intimidated.
10/26/07 @ 09:54
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
tim,

Of course I would never consider do battle with a big guy like Kiel.

He would probably hit me with his purse and then turn and run.

Since I will be 65 next July, I have lost much of my leg speed and endurance, so I wouldn't be able to run him down.

Also tim, who asked you?

Alex USMC 1969-73
10/26/07 @ 10:42
Comment from: wendy (uk) [Visitor]
Ooops - I think I've just walked into the men's room by mistake!

In France, where there seem to be as many female golfers as male, they are almost without exception beautifully and sexily dressed. The only thing I hate more than the little dogs they have attached to their golf trolleys is the fact that they all have beautiful, virtually identical, swings. Jealous? Of course I am.

Ron Mon - are you going to clarify to 2Under?!
10/26/07 @ 10:51
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Tim,

Not to put myself in the fray, but if we were putting $$ on a fight, my dollar goes on the Vietnam-era Marine. No personal offense Kiel, but I have personally seen one of my Marines, who was 5'5" take down a pretty burly 6'3" civilian. Fighting in this regard is much like golf. Size isn't everything. You have to know how to fight.

On to more important matters. The fact is, the LPGA tournaments aren't as exciting. If they were, we'd see the ratings bear that out.

Your comparison between heavyweight vs lightweight is irrelevant to this discussion. A more appropriate comparison would have been between a women's heavyweight fight of equal talent versus a men's heavyweight fight of unequal talent.

I think I'd still watch the men duke it out. Unless, of course, the women's fight was between two attractive women, in the nude, on the Playboy channel.

Joking aside, I would like to pose this as a serious question for debate: why are so many people so reticent to admit the LPGA is inferior? Because that's what we are really arguing about here. Generally speaking, we watch entertainment of the highest level. That is why viewership for the PGA is at the level it is versus the LPGA. Is it the word "inferior" that creates such a stir? Do we put this comment in the larger social context? If I say the LPGA game is inferior, is it somehow fostering the idea that women are inferior? Is that why we try to acknowledge how great their swings are? Last time I checked, the game was measured by numbers, not by a qualitative swing analysis. Now I may objectify women on some occasions, and I may take issue with the quality of their game, but it doesn't take away from my perception of their worth to society. Let's just stop being so sensitive about it.






10/26/07 @ 11:42
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
I didn't know Alex was a marine. I change my bet, even if he is 65 (If he truly was a Marine).

The boxing analogy is very relevant.

It's all about competition. Would you rather watch another Tiger Woods blowout, or an LPGA event that comes down to a knee-knocking six-foot putt?

I watch both, and I prefer watching the men -- unless Natalie Gulbis is playing -- but I'd rather watch a CLOSE LPGA match.

TV ratings are irrelevant, in this case. Most men are sports fans. If more women were sports fans, they'd almost surely prefer watching the women than the men.

Nobody is saying the women are better than the men, at least I'm not. But they are 200 percent better than the average male golfer, and hackers could learn a lot by watching them.


10/26/07 @ 12:03
Comment from: Kiel Christianson [Member] Email
Tim's final point was exactly mine to start with. No one ever compared PGA to LPGA; only hacker men to professional women.
Alex riffed on that point in an utterly
non-sensical way (as usual). If he ever was a Marine, I'm guessing he sustained a head injury at some point and is hoplessly rattled.
10/26/07 @ 12:34
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Kiel,

As 2under will tell you, no one who served honorably in the Corps ever says he WAS a Marine. Similarly, such a man would never say he was an "ex-marine." If one has served honorably in the USMC, he is and always will be a Marine.

It is a tradition and a way of life that lasts a lifetime. Duty, Honor, and Loyalty to God and Country.
Semper Fideles.

Just kidding about the fisticuffs.

Back to golf, 2under is correct, of course. One need only attend a PGA event or even a Nationwide tournament, and follow it up with an LPGA event to see the vast difference in the two games.

As far as the gap between the lead and last in a tournament, the men's tournaments have far less disparity than LPGA events.

Example: In the recent Samsung in a TWENTY player field, Bubbles and Bettina were 36 and 37 strokes behind Lorena. That wouild never happen in a short field PGA event like the Mercedes.
10/26/07 @ 12:53
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Alex is absolutely right. The truth is the truth, and nothing and nobody and not all the wishing in the world can change it. There is no comparison between men and women in the arena of sports.
10/26/07 @ 13:14
Comment from: Richard Patten [Visitor] Email
Agree with Kiel. Watch every lpga tournament I can to watch swings. Women don't have the muscles to compensate for a lousy swing, so the must stay on plane, make a good backswing, etc. and the swing is not too quick to catch their fundamentals. The average golfer can can learn more from watching women than men. When you realize that Sam Snead swings like a woman you will understand what I mean.
10/26/07 @ 13:15
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Richard Patten,

Not another one! Richard, say it isn't so!
10/26/07 @ 14:06
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
At least they're beautiful now. 20 years ago, it would have been tough to say that...though I would bet today LPGA players can outdrive 95% of male golfers.

10/26/07 @ 15:04
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Richard,

Well, it's obvious that you haven't gleaned much from watching the women. Muscles help you to generate power, which translates into greater distance, more backspin, the ability to power the ball out of rough more effectively, etc.; however, muscles cannot help you "compensate" for a poor swing.
10/26/07 @ 15:30
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Tim/Kiel/Richard,

Before the argument changes direction, let's rebut the original salvo, posted by Kiel:

"To be fair, a good number of men probably do think that. They're wrong, though, and can learn more from pfo women's swings than pro men's swings."

I disagree that men can learn more from an LPGA player than a PGA player. If you were to go down a "depth chart" of the PGA Tour to the LPGA tour, you will find that PGA Tour players, on the whole, have a more fundamentally sound swing than the LPGA tour players. I would even put the Nationwide and Gateway Tour on that list. So how is it that the LPGA tour swing represents a better model to learn from? In addition, you get much better swing analysis from watching a PGA Tour event from Kostis or Miller than you do from watching any LPGA event.
10/27/07 @ 09:57
Comment from: Jay [Visitor] Email
Timmy,

Why don't you drop Michelle Wie topics ? It is getting old.

Readers want to read about the hot Suzann Petterson. She is on a roll nowadays.

Are you paying attention to Women's golf at all ?
10/27/07 @ 15:18
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
2under,

Kiel may have something here.

While most men don't believe that they could improve their golf games by trying to copy the swing of a five foot tall, 100 pound Korean lass, perhaps the lads in his circle feel that that would be a worthy goal.

On this point I agree, IF a man desires to play like a woman.

I mean, if any man would want to learn how to crochet lace doilies, historically a woman's skill, he certainly wouldn't ask John Daly for advice.

So yes, Kiel, if any man wants to learn the ladies' golf game, how to strike a 100 yard seven-iron for his third shot on a 485 yard par five,, by all means learn the girls' game.

Are any of the diminutive Korean ladies producing any instructional DVD's specifically for PC men? Kiel says there is a definite market for them.
10/28/07 @ 07:33
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
If the USMC is so tough, they would have won the war in Viet Nam.

May be this goes to show that you need more than just tough guys to win a war.
10/29/07 @ 07:32
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wunderkind, That's an interesting take you have on the USMC and armed combat in general. Perhaps the Corps could benefit from your measured input. There are a few bars in Jacksonville, North Carolina near Camp Lejeune where a lot of the Jarheads congregate after a day of training. The same goes for Oceanside, California near Camp Pendleton. I suggest that you go to either place and confront the toughest looking Gunnery Sergeant in the joint and tell him of your profound contempt for the United States Marine Corps. I'm sure he will be glad to hear your opinion and he will be very understanding. And if he has any ribbons that he got from combat in places like Hue and Da Nang, make sure to tell him how the cowardly Marines chickened out at those fire fights. And while you're at it, tell that lily-livered Gunny that the Marines weren't much at Iwo Jima, Tarawa, Guadalcanal, or Okinawa. And they were absolutely lousy at Ko-To-Ri and Frozen Chosin. And finally, remind that Gunny how you and a few of your liberal college buddies would have outperformed the jarheads at Fallujah. He'll really be humiliated by a tough-talking hombre like you. Good luck. You'll need it.
10/29/07 @ 08:02
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
So knowing where the arm forces hang out makes one a tough guys?

BTW, you neglected to mention your comrades in My Tai.


10/29/07 @ 09:28
Comment from: Oui Oui Oui [Visitor] Email
Tim,

Whom did the Thai news paper think are sexy on the LPGA?

Pat Hurst? Laura Davies? Lorie Kane?

While there are some decent looking players, I wouldn't go as far as saying that they are 'sexy'.

10/29/07 @ 09:38
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wunderkind,

Are you making all those typos and misspellings deliberately?

Or is English your second language?

In any case, you're coming off as a dimwit.

Don't worry, pal, our Armed Forces and our police will continue to protect you. It's their duty.

What's your duty? Do you have any duties?
10/29/07 @ 10:06
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
Dimwit? I suppose I can call you a senile old fart then?

Nevertheless. I am not attacking the arm forces, they are just being used as political tools by the politicians.
10/29/07 @ 10:33
Comment from: Shanks [Member] Email
My Dad, God rest his soul, was a Marine 1944-45. He told me that the REALLY tough guys never talked about how tough they were. Didn't have to.
10/29/07 @ 10:46
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Shanks,

Your Dad was right.

Since he was in the Corps in those years, he must have gone in right out of high school.

Most guys at that time got an abbeviated version of boot camp, and were groomed for the later island invasions in the Pacific.

According to Marine Corps lore, some of the best and gutsiest Marines ever came out of that group.

Shanks, be assured that the soul of your dear father rests with God.

Semper Fideles

Alex USMC 1969-73
10/29/07 @ 11:24
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wunderkind,

You can call me anything you wish.

That privilege is one that our ARMED Forces will fight do defend. (Notice, the word is "armed", spelled with "ed" on the end."

And, I beg to differ. When you refer to "losing the Vietnam War" and my comrades at "My Tai"?(My Lai)?, it sure comes of as criticism.

But again, you can say what you want about me, or even spout off about the Marines and the other Armed Forces. Just don't do it to their faces. Or mine either.
10/29/07 @ 11:37
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Wunderkind,

I'll have you know that I consider you to be a liar. It's almost comical when you leftists claim to support the troops. You attack the military six ways to Friday, then you say, "Oh, but I'm not attacking the military!"

You certainly are a liar. That is, if you don't lie to others, you certainly do lie to yourself.
10/29/07 @ 11:45
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
What privilege are you defending? The ability to beat someone up anytime you want and you wish? Is that it?

And as for the other gentleman, why do you assume I am a leftist from a few words that I wrote? Also, IMO, sending in illly-equippped troops to undermanned missions is worse than not supporting them - and that's what the 'wise' folks in the Pentagon have done.

Anyhow, I don't plan on prolonging this discussion. I certain respect that you are entitled to your opinions.
10/29/07 @ 11:58
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
Alex,

I just re-read your response. I stand corrected. For having served in the armed forces, you certainly have defended my right to express my opinions, I tipped my hat to you.
10/29/07 @ 12:01
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
Whoa, Judge. Slow that Mustang down.

Don't lump me in with Wunderkind.

You would probably consider me a "leftist," since I hate all things Republican -- though I'm not real wild about the Democrats these days -- but I've never had a bad thing to say about the military, especially the Marines.

So don't go putting words in my mouth.




10/29/07 @ 13:03
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Judge Smails,

Yes, and guys like Wunderkind have no compunction about expressing their erroneous opinions anywhere and any time, even on a golf blog.

To these guys, our military eperts with decades of experience are no more than a bunch of boobs and lackeys of President Bush.

He doesn't say that our Armed Forces are the best in history, best equipped, best educated, best fed, best in every respect. No, he thinks that they are ill-equipped and undermanned. They have poor and uncaring leadership from the Commander-in-Chief down to tha squad leaders.

One can see from Wunderkind's posts that his fondest hope is for the US Armed Forces to suffer ignominious defeat in Iraq, for them to be humiliated by any force, no matter how nefarious. Then he and his ilk will be able to crow at some future date how they couldn't "win the Iraq war."

One thing that always puzzles me about these characters is how did they develop so much knowledge of military tactics and logistics, much more than any of our generals or admirals, when almost none of them have ever served a day in the military?

You're right, their contempt for the US Armed Forces is limitless.
10/29/07 @ 13:04
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
tim,

Where and when did Judge put words in your mouth?

Where did he attempt to lump you with Wunderkind?

Just asking.
10/29/07 @ 13:11
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Alex,

You forgot about Two-Nine. Tell him to go to the Stumps. There is a retired 1stSgt there who will rip his lips off.

Wunderdork,

You obviously didn't pay attention in school, having made this statement:

"If the USMC is so tough, they would have won the war in Viet Nam."

You obviously have no clue. Are you still in high school?

10/29/07 @ 13:45
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Tim,

No, I won't lump you in with that character. No worries.
10/29/07 @ 14:03
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
2under,

Sadly, perhaps Wunderdork has paid too much attention at what he was taught in school.

At far too many high schools, just that sort of anti-American, anti-Military garbage is being fed to the students on a daily basis.

However, while many like Wunder are drinking heavily of the Koolaid, we still have a sizable segment of our young people who are willing to volunteer for the Armed Services to defend this country and liberate oppressed peoples worldwide.

And that word "VOLUNTEER" really sticks in the craws of these brainwashed liberals, as it should.
10/29/07 @ 14:45
Comment from: Wunderkind [Visitor] Email
Tim, What? You're not coming to my defense? At least be a mediator, perhaps?

I am under fire here. Help!
10/29/07 @ 17:17
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wunderkind,

If you ever actually became "under fire," your mother had better be there to change your diaper.
10/29/07 @ 17:29
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
Wonderbread, you brought this on yourself.

Careful of Alex, you've really got him steamed.
10/30/07 @ 03:43
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
Alex,

I don't know if it is generational or not. I am a GenX'er, and I don't understand the Millenial generation. But as you stated, many have stepped up to the plate to make their contribution, and I find that admirable.

I really don't care about someone challenging my "toughness". The way I look at it, I know and have proven all I need to myself. What really concerns me, and what I am still dumbfounded by, is Wunder's myopic and simplistic view of warfare. It makes me "wunder" where my tax dollars are going, b/c they apparently aren't providing even a basic level of education on interpretive history. In that vain, it illustrates to me that he lacks understanding of our political system. He is going to be casting a ballot next year with that jello-brain of his?

It just goes to show that we not only need citizenship tests, we need voter literacy tests as well.
10/30/07 @ 06:12
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
2under,

Sure, we need citizenship and voter literacy tests.

But sadly, any such tests have been unber attack from the virulent liberals for decades.

In several states, the libs have even filed court cases against recently passed laws requiring the presentation of a picture ID in order to vote.

They also don't see a thing wrong with illegal aliens casting ballots, along with the long departed.

Yes, at a rally in Cicero recently, a Hispanic advocate proposed eactly that, that anyone living in the Chicago area, regardless of being an American citizen or not, should be welcomed at the polls. The cheering was wild.

Not at all amazingly, several local politicians gave their approval of that abomination.

Now, what do you suppose was the party affiliation of these pols?
10/30/07 @ 07:16
Comment from: 2under [Visitor] Email
...now I know why I escape to the golf course.
10/30/07 @ 12:02
Comment from: BV [Visitor]
Golly...Lots of things to comment on in the post and the responses! so here goes:

1) IF the Thai paper was quoted correctly, it's fantastic to see that someone somewhere was able to ditch the PC garbage...if even for one article. Yes, that means I agree with them...the LPGA is fun to watch because their players are goodlooking women, not because I'm gonna learn anything from them.

2) Poster "Jay" - what in the world are you talking about? Tim's blog entry is about the LPGA, not Michelle Wie at all. She is not even referenced in his original post. Get at least a bit of a grip.

3) The Kiel vs Alex streetfight. As noted, Kiel is a big fella and with the extra reach the purse strap gives him...edge to Kiel.

4) Wunderkind's posts. Where to start? This person is so completely "out of it" that any attempt at rebuttal is futile...but two points MUST be addressed: The Marines DID NOT "lose Vietnam" nor did they participate in the "My Lai incident".

5) Liberal vs Conservative viewpoints...I'm a baby-boomer, I served in the Air Force, I've voted for Republican candidates when they seemed the right choice and for Independents when they seemed the right choice. Did you notice, I didn't mention voting for a Democrat?? ;) Golly, I sure HOPE they run Billary Clinton in 2008 - it's a sure way to guarantee a Republican in the White House!
11/01/07 @ 16:03

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